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Birdseye Satellite Imagery: A new direction for Garmin Custom Mapping?


Native20559
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Birdseye Satellite Imagery: A new direction for Garmin Custom Mapping? ;)

 

Found this on the Garmin site today. Talked to one of the CSR's and they had expected this new product to be rolled out this coming Monday, the 18th. They have very little info much less pricing beyond the $29.99 annual fee they could share with me (sounds familiar!). ;)

 

Looks like it could have several similarities with Delormes and Lowrances imagery packages. Time will tell how it ultimately compares. :)

 

Details here: https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=255&pID=70144

 

N

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Birdseye Satellite Imagery: A new direction for Garmin Custom Mapping? ;)

 

Found this on the Garmin site today. Talked to one of the CSR's and they had expected this new product to be rolled out this coming Monday, the 18th. They have very little info much less pricing beyond the $29.99 annual fee they could share with me (sounds familiar!). ;)

 

Looks like it could have several similarities with Delormes and Lowrances imagery packages. Time will tell how it ultimately compares. :)

 

Details here: https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=255&pID=70144

 

N

Link was removed..

Do you have it saved?..

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Birdseye Satellite Imagery: A new direction for Garmin Custom Mapping? :D

 

Found this on the Garmin site today. Talked to one of the CSR's and they had expected this new product to be rolled out this coming Monday, the 18th. They have very little info much less pricing beyond the $29.99 annual fee they could share with me (sounds familiar!). ;)

 

Looks like it could have several similarities with Delormes and Lowrances imagery packages. Time will tell how it ultimately compares. ;)

 

Details here: https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=255&pID=70144

 

N

 

Looks like we will be seeing a new version of Basecamp as well:

 

"Minimum Requirements

You must have Garmin's free software BaseCamp™ (version 3.0.0 or later) installed on your computer before you can use this subscription. You also need a myGarmin account. If you do not have one, we will require you to create one during the purchase process."

 

The currently available version of BaseCamp for Windows is 2.0.9, so if this Birdseye product is planned to be released/announced Monday...then it would seem BaseCamp will also be released/announced as well.

 

:)

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Tim also posted some working screenshots on gpsreview.net.

 

A couple of comparative observations/speculations:

 

- Garmin limits the imagery to a single device. DeLorme imagery can be used in any PN device that is registered to the TopoUSA installation.

 

- I'll go out on a limb and anticipate that Garmin will have adequate download speeds. DeLorme is still trying to solve an apparent bottleneck in their downloads.

 

- It's unclear how large "the world" is...will hope for the best. DeLorme has announced plan for world-wide aerial imagery but it's probably going to cost more than the regular subscription.

 

Yay competition! I feel a little less special today...and that's a Good Thing.

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Would anyone excited about this feature, please try to explain to me how it is anything other than a step backwards or at best sideways........??????

 

Except for places that do not have imagery freely available (only out of USA ??), why would anyone choose to pay for the imagery and lock it to one unit when the same imagery is available free for use on multiple units?

I can understand the interest for "out of US ", and that may be the real focus.

 

"In the States" it's kind of a D moment (Duh)

"Out of USA" it's one more nail in the D coffin.

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Except for places that do not have imagery freely available (only out of USA ??), why would anyone choose to pay for the imagery and lock it to one unit when the same imagery is available free for use on multiple units?

I can understand the interest for "out of US ", and that may be the real focus.

 

I think the answer will depend on how it is implemented. If it allows large area coverage and the free options stay stuck at 100 megapixels, that would be a reason.

 

Out of US is not really a limit.... If you want, you can do it now anywhere, but the size limit ATM is too restrictive.

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"In the States" it's kind of a D moment (Duh)

"Out of USA" it's one more nail in the D coffin.

I don't see it that way. In fact, the competition is only heating up. "D"eLorme has a release date to coincide with the PN-60 to come out with more detailed maps outside of the USA. Granted, baby steps, but these steps are not backwards nor are they sideways.

 

Garmin on the other hand, recognizes (at long last) the desire to have aerial imagery that easily loads onto their units.

 

Just because you don't see it this way doesn't make it not so. It just makes it a frill for you that you don't need or want.

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... why would anyone choose to pay for the imagery and lock it to one unit when the same imagery is available free for use on multiple units?

It's not available for free. There is a big cost in time in the learning curve for how to do it. And there is an additional big cost in time for doing it. Most average GPS users who will have ideas how they can use the imagery will not want, or be able to, invest that kind of time.

 

Give them a simple and inexpensive download process and it opens up the possibilities to the majority of elegible users rather than just a minority of determined folks who have the necessary skills and who value the challenge more than their time.

 

I have the necessary skills and I'm retired so time isn't a really big issue for me. But I would still have to turn the question around and right back at you....

 

.... At thirty bucks a year for all you can eat, why on earth would you bother to do it yourself?

 

...ken...

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... why would anyone choose to pay for the imagery and lock it to one unit when the same imagery is available free for use on multiple units?

It's not available for free. There is a big cost in time in the learning curve for how to do it. And there is an additional big cost in time for doing it. Most average GPS users who will have ideas how they can use the imagery will not want, or be able to, invest that kind of time.

 

..............

 

.... At thirty bucks a year for all you can eat, why on earth would you bother to do it yourself?

 

...ken...

 

Time???? You have GOT TO BE KIDDING ! The absolute first time I tried it , it took less than 5 minutes, start to finish with the image onto the GPS, and I sure didn't even know what I was doing!

 

But, no big deal.....like TL said it's just I frill that I don't need , or want.....

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This is pretty exciting. Glad to see Garmin is stepping up to the plate. Probably time to pick up one of these newer units.

 

Lots of people are uploading their custom maps at GPSFileDepot but I doubt it will ever have that good of world coverage (at least for free). So I bet for the best mapping on these units it would be a mix of this and more detailed maps for areas you frequent.

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The time it takes on a >difficult< custom map is not more then 10 minutes, from capture to georeference, the transfer to the gps is very short.

 

I honestly don't see why people don't want to learn how to make a custom map and why (even if not much) somebody prefers to pay for this.

I also don't really like sat maps because much is not shown because of treecover, so in the end you end up with a sat map from your house or you holiday location and maybe some hiketrail if visible.

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Sorry If I missed the answer but will this service cover canada?

 

Straight from the promo: " High-resolution sub-meter color satellite imagery captures the world in brilliant clarity and detail."

 

We'll have to wait and see what the specifics are when they complete their formal "release" of this new product on Monday the 18th. With luck, we'll get more detail then ...

 

N

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Latest info at: http://garmin.blogs.com/pr/2010/01/garmin-...anchId=newsroom

 

'The images are among the most highly-detailed available – offering 0.5 meter per pixel resolution in many areas of the United States' - USGS has offered better for years in many areas.

 

'BirdsEye Satellite and Aerial Imagery will be available in March 2010'

 

The rest is typical advertising hyp to oh-and-ah the average user.

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I guess we will see. At best, I'm sure it will be what Google offers. Using the digitalglobe map tool, all I see is satellite images around here. They do not even seem to have complete coverage for Canada....

 

Really, the question is what is the aerial coverage. Satellite images have no use. I'm sure the USA is covered. It is the rest of the world that we need to know about.

Edited by Red90
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I guess we will see. At best, I'm sure it will be what Google offers. Using the digitalglobe map tool, all I see is satellite images around here. They do not even seem to have complete coverage for Canada....

 

Really, the question is what is the aerial coverage. Satellite images have no use. I'm sure the USA is covered. It is the rest of the world that we need to know about.

 

I often view Digital Globe imagery in Global Mapper. Most of the time, if you are in the woods or the desert you do just as well with Terraserver. Digital Globe may be better if you are mapping around towns.

Edited by seldom_sn
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I guess we will see. At best, I'm sure it will be what Google offers. Using the digitalglobe map tool, all I see is satellite images around here. They do not even seem to have complete coverage for Canada....

 

Really, the question is what is the aerial coverage. Satellite images have no use. I'm sure the USA is covered. It is the rest of the world that we need to know about.

I'm in agreement with the satellite assesment. I'm strictly an aerial and topo user. The closer in shots from the aerials have proven quite useful.

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I guess we will see. At best, I'm sure it will be what Google offers. Using the digitalglobe map tool, all I see is satellite images around here. They do not even seem to have complete coverage for Canada....

 

Really, the question is what is the aerial coverage. Satellite images have no use. I'm sure the USA is covered. It is the rest of the world that we need to know about.

I'm in agreement with the satellite assesment. I'm strictly an aerial and topo user. The closer in shots from the aerials have proven quite useful.

That would depend on your usage and the image sources and their resolution; here is Port-au-Prince as you might see in your Goggle Earth where Rue O. Durand, Rue dr Dehoux & Boulevard Jeans-Jaques Dessalines intersect:

 

DigitalGlobe (built into free Goggle Earth):

1263532702.jpg

 

Google maps link

 

GeoEye:

1263532760.jpg

 

The following half-meter resolution satellite image shows the Toussaint L’Ouverture International Airport, Port-au-Prince:

haiti_01_13_10_v2.jpg

The increased level of relief support is apparent when comparing this image, taken Jan. 13, 2010 at 10:27 a.m. EST, to the image taken Jan. 16, 2010:

haiti_01_16_10.jpg

The image was taken by the GeoEye-1 satellite from 423 miles in space at 10:37 a.m. EST on Jan. 16, 2010

 

And these Sat images are not being shown here at full resolution, you can click on the bottom two images for a higher resolution view..

Edited by coggins
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That would depend on your usage and the image sources and their resolution; here is Port-au-Prince as you might see in your Goggle Earth where Rue O. Durand, Rue dr Dehoux & Boulevard Jeans-Jaques Dessalines intersect:

 

DigitalGlobe (built into free Goggle Earth):

The image was taken by the GeoEye-1 satellite from 423 miles in space at 10:37 a.m. EST on Jan. 16, 2010

 

And these Sat images are not being shown here at full resolution.

 

I've seen the imagery being provided. At the altitude level these are at, the resolution is great on PCs for 3m resolution. It's when you start getting down closer to the imagery it starts to blur and pixelate which becomes useless on small screens such as the GPS where 1m-0.5m resolution is more desirable.

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I've seen the imagery being provided. At the altitude level these are at, the resolution is great on PCs for 3m resolution. It's when you start getting down closer to the imagery it starts to blur and pixelate which becomes useless on small screens such as the GPS where 1m-0.5m resolution is more desirable.

The thing is that the GeoEye satellite imagery is at 0.50-meter resolution, not 3 meter and work quite well with a handheld such as in the topic of this thread or even an EarthMate one. They preform exactly the same as aerial flown images. The Garmin BirdsEye imagery is also submeter.

 

I'm not sure what you have seen, maybe this:

Port-au-Prince_PN40.jpg

from this maybe: DigitalGlobe

Edited by coggins
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Maybe a question the delorme users can answer - with one years subscription, what would stop people downloading sat images for the whole planet and saving them, so as never to have to renew the subscription ?

 

What would stop people developing apps that would do this automatically for you ?

 

Ta.

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Rifty, you probably could get all the imagery you want for your home region -- the "whole planet" might be a bit much to squeeze through their home broadband connection and onto their hard drives.

 

In DeLorme's case, server capacity and bandwidth to support downloads have effectively limited what folks can actually get on their subscriptions D. did impose some changes in the ordering and download process to keep people from overwhelming the system, but they're still having speed problems.

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What would stop people developing apps that would do this automatically for you ?

 

Time and money? Time to download; money for the fastest connection available to the public and for storage devices. Better things to do in life. Likely it would be being updated faster than anyone could download it - so what would be the point?

 

Half meter resolution with the current custom image map limits would be an area of 5km by 5km and 100,000,000 pixels. Likely some compression, but too much would destroy the quality of the image, so figure a 100Mb file for a 3 by 3 mile area; 160kps download would be about 10 minues per file, or 6 files per hour. A degree square is roughly 69 by 69 * cos(lat) miles - figure 20 * 20 * 100Mb = 40Gb and 400 files / 6 = 67 hours. For the 48 States about 900 one degree squares, some are partial water, so figure 800*40Gb = 32 Tb and 800*67hr (roughly 800*3 days of close to 24hr per day) = 6 + years. About $100 per 1Tb external hard drive ($3200) and 6 years to fill them. Mental lapse here, but I would say the rest of the world is 15-20 times larger than the 48 States. Use faster download speeds if you have them, but as Lee says the bandwidth will likely be limited by the server or the license with the image provider. Quite possilby by the time you/anyone got the US download, even higher resolution imagery would be available.

 

How does DeLorme package the data; preselected quads or user defines the boundaries for each download?

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What would stop people developing apps that would do this automatically for you ?

 

Time and money? Time to download; money for the fastest connection available to the public and for storage devices. Better things to do in life. Likely it would be being updated faster than anyone could download it - so what would be the point?

 

Half meter resolution with the current custom image map limits would be an area of 5km by 5km and 100,000,000 pixels. Likely some compression, but too much would destroy the quality of the image, so figure a 100Mb file for a 3 by 3 mile area; 160kps download would be about 10 minues per file, or 6 files per hour. A degree square is roughly 69 by 69 * cos(lat) miles - figure 20 * 20 * 100Mb = 40Gb and 400 files / 6 = 67 hours. For the 48 States about 900 one degree squares, some are partial water, so figure 800*40Gb = 32 Tb and 800*67hr (roughly 800*3 days of close to 24hr per day) = 6 + years. About $100 per 1Tb external hard drive ($3200) and 6 years to fill them. Mental lapse here, but I would say the rest of the world is 15-20 times larger than the 48 States. Use faster download speeds if you have them, but as Lee says the bandwidth will likely be limited by the server or the license with the image provider. Quite possilby by the time you/anyone got the US download, even higher resolution imagery would be available.

 

How does DeLorme package the data; preselected quads or user defines the boundaries for each download?

 

I'm sure hoping that Garmin increases the custom map limits currently in place. If a 3x3 mile area is the max that can be loaded at one time the 'all you can eat' download option really isn't too compelling...

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The 3 by 3 mile area is for 0.5 m resolution pixels. At 1.0m it would be about 6x6 miles.

Figure the area covered and how many files it would take to cover an area with the 1 ft, 0.5 ft, or 0.25 ft resolutions which are currently available for some areas for free download from some Government websites.

 

One needs also take into consideration that for a larger area downloaded in adjacent quads/tiles that an area of interest could be in the corner or near the edge; therefore it would be prudent to make the download files 1/4 the max size so the 2 or 4 adjacent ones could be viewable at one time.

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Half meter resolution with the current custom image map limits would be an area of 5km by 5km and 100,000,000 pixels. Likely some compression, but too much would destroy the quality of the image, so figure a 100Mb file for a 3 by 3 mile area

 

Me thinks you made a large error...

 

100 mexapixels, not 100 megabytes. Not knowing what level of compression they will use, but Google Earth JPGs are around ~15%, so a 100MP image would be 15MB or so. It is pretty difficult to get worse than 20%.

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Me thinks you made a large error...

 

100 mexapixels, not 100 megabytes. Not knowing what level of compression they will use, but Google Earth JPGs are around ~15%, so a 100MP image would be 15MB or so. It is pretty difficult to get worse than 20%.

 

Correct. I thought of that after I sent the post, but decided not to change it. The max inage(s) size Garmin currenty allows is 100 'units' of 1024x1024 pixels making the 3 by 3 miles for 0.5m resolution valid.

The .kmz files I have made from source geotiff, etc data are 15+- % of the source data. Even at 10% (or less with faster downloads), I doubt anyone would want to invest the resources to do it all just to do it all.

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I'm sure hoping that Garmin increases the custom map limits currently in place. If a 3x3 mile area is the max that can be loaded at one time the 'all you can eat' download option really isn't too compelling...

 

Garmin already have products that display raster imagery eg GBDiscoverer

 

I dont own GBDiscoverer but I would guess these use .img files so I would speculate BirdsEye maps will be compiled into that format rather than using the kml method used by CustomMaps.

Edited by DiamondDuo
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The .kmz files I have made from source geotiff, etc data are 15+- % of the source data. Even at 10% (or less with faster downloads), I doubt anyone would want to invest the resources to do it all just to do it all.

 

Does anyone know what the format of these images will be? Will it be possible to georeference them into other mapping programs? (like Global Mapper or MapEdit)

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Seems like half a solution. Nowhere am I seeing that you can use these maps on your computer the same way I use NG topo now, and even Garmin Mapsource Topo/City Navigator. I don't plan trips on a 3" screen. I plan them on my computer.

 

What I'd want out of Garmin is a all in one solution. Computer maps, GPS maps and such. They actually look like they are stepping out of the GPS market and into the subscription market. I'm not all that likely to follow them there. Garmin, It's been a fun ride, but it's looking like it's coming to an end.

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