Cache Cop

[+Gan Dalf]

Something wen twrong when I first posted this. This is my second try...

 

Sorry, this post is long but I'd really appreciate others opinions.

 

I have seen "cache cops" (people who take it upon themselves to report caches or write scathing logs or e-mails to the cache owner) referred to in a derogatory manner in some threads. I have had some of my logs referred to as being a bit over the top myself and so I am trying to tone my log posts down a bit when there is something about a cache that I don't like or that I think is out of line. Still, when something is wrong with a cache or if I think there is something unsafe about the location then I feel compelled to tell the owner about it, if not post a Needs Maintenance or an Archive Request.

 

It is with that in mind that I ask what you would do in the following situation. This has to do with armchair loggers rather than the cache itself. People who know me from my area will probably know what cache I am talking about from what I am about to describe but I'd prefer to keep the cache anonymous for now so if you know the cache I am talking about please don't say which one it is.

 

There is a cache in our area that requires that you obtain one of four travel bugs in order to solve for it's location. The bugs themselves have codes on them that allow you to solve for the final location of the cache. I tried for months to find one of these bugs but always got to a cache too late or the particular bug that I was going for was listed as being in the cache but was not actually there. I was finally able to snag one of them, get the codes and find the cache a couple of months ago. I then put the bug back into circulation. It turns out that the cache was located at a spot that I frequently ride my bike by and so it was an easy thing for me to make the grab.

 

I often return to cache pages of caches that I have found to read if anyone else has found the cache since I had and to read what they said about it. A few days ago I went back to this particular cache page and noted that two people had recently logged a find on this cache. Both of these people had fewer than 10 finds. Because of the requirement of finding the Travel Bugs in order to solve for the location I was immediately skeptical that these newbie’s had found the bugs and solved for the final location. I checked their TB history and sure enough neither one of them has recorded ever finding one of the required bugs. Without them there is no way to know for sure where this cache is located.

 

The other day I was riding my bike by the location of the cache and I decided to stop and check if either one of these people had actually found it. The only other signature on the log after mine was one from a legitimate finder of one of the TB's. Neither of the two newbie’s had signed the log.

 

Now I am compelled to either write to the owner of the cache and/or the posters of these logs and let them know what I have found. I know, it's not my cache and really none of my business but it really annoys me that they would take credit for a cache they never discovered. Especially when it took me so long to find it properly. I just can't understand how it is fun for some people to just log a cache they have never found. It kind of defeats the purpose of the game.

 

I'm curious to know if anyone out there feels the way I do and would contact the cache owner to let them know that the two newest loggers did not actually find the bugs or the cache OR if you would write to the cheaters and tell them you know what they did. If it was my cache, I would not have let them get past logging it without having found the bugs. I would have gone out to the cache within a day or two of them posting their finds, checked the log books and deleted their logs once I found out the truth. I realize not everyone thinks the way I do.

 

So, what would you do? I'd really like to know.

[+wimseyguy]

I'd ignore the situation, and never would have gone back to check on the cache.

With all due respect I would suggest that you MYOB.

The guidelines are pretty clear on who is responsible for bogus logs, and it isn't you nor any other member of the community.

Cache Maintenance

 

The cache owner will assume all responsibility of their cache listings.

 

The responsibility of your listing includes quality control of posts to the cache page. Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements.

 

So what if it took you a while to find this one? How does anyone else's find, bogus or authentic, take away from the FUN you had with your experience?

Edited July 24, 2008 by wimseyguy

[+Tequila]

You are gonna give yourself an ulcer.............. And no one is gonna thank you for doing it.

 

Spend your time finding more caches.

 

You will always find people who cheat, cut corners, whatever.

 

Never lose sight of the fact that it is just a game. And the only thing that should matter to you is how you play the game.

[+ReadyOrNot]

With all due respect i would suggest that you MYOB.

The guidelines are pretty clear on who is responsible for bogus logs, and it isn't you nor any other member of the community.

Cache Maintenance

 

The cache owner will assume all responsibility of their cache listings.

 

The responsibility of your listing includes quality control of posts to the cache page. Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements.

 

So what if it took you a while to find this one? How does anyone else's find, bogus or authentic, take away from the FUN you had with your experience?

 

My suggestion would be for YOU to MYOB... He has every right to report it to the cache owner and let the cache owner decide what to do about the situation.

 

If the owner decides to do nothing, then move on....

[+usyoopers]

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it...life's to short to worry about someones elses problems!

[+wesleykey]

There is no state law that requires that they log the TB online or that they sign the cache log book. Get over it...

 

There are times (several, in fact) that I found a cache but have not logged it online. Am I a cheater??????

[+TeamAtlas]

I understand what you mean about it not being fair that they logged it w/o the work. If it were me, I'd be ticked too but not sure I'd say anything.

 

Maybe send the newbie loggers a friendly email, saying something like "Hey, my friend really wants to find that TB so he can log the cache too, and since I see you were the last to have it, would you mind telling us which cache you dropped it into?"

 

That should get the point across to them and maybe their conscience will kick in.

[+wapahani]

There is a local puzzle cache. I haven't solved the thing yet (I hate puzzles and push them aside normally), but while hiding a cache this past week I got a note from my reviewer telling me I couldn't place it there, as it was too close to another cache, being a puzzle (as I had accounted for the other caches).

While talking to a fellow cacher the other day I asked if that was his puzzle in there and he said yes.

When I retrieved my cache, I found the puzzle cache container on accident. I didn't sign the log, or look in it.

Why? Because I didn't solve the puzzle and I didn't feel it was mine to claim.

The wife probably would have signed it. To each their own.

 

As to your question. Stop being the COP. Sure it took you a long time to claim it, but its up to the owner of the cache. I've got a tough evil cache that a couple have claimed, but I'm not going to go check the log for a while.

If I see people that claim it and didn't sign it, then I might pull their names off.

 

We have a local cache that the owner says "if you can't get the cache open, or think you can't, please don't try and open it." and "you can claim the find online".... Several people have done it this way. Its not a tough find and its right at the COORDS. You can walk right to it and see it in the growth.

 

This is up to the owner of the cache. I'm sure it upsets you to know that they just went to the page and claimed it, but you actually have the satisfaction of knowing you FOUND IT.

 

Just don't worry about it. This is a sport/hobby of SELF SATISFACTION. I don't let what others do bother me.

[+KBI]

So, what would you do? I'd really like to know.

I would most likely consider it none of my business, but at the most I would contact the owner and provide the details you observed. It’s up to the owner what he or she does with that information.

 

Unlike you, I wouldn’t let it bother me. You enjoyed the unique challenge of finding that particular cache, right? How does the mere existence of a liar’s log or two take anything away from the enjoyment you experienced – unless you choose to let it bother you? Nobody is saying you didn’t find the cache.

 

Allowing oneself to be troubled over something like that is a bit like finishing a difficult crossword puzzle without help, and then feeling cheated upon discovering that someone else solved the same puzzle while peeking at the solution.

[+wimseyguy]

With all due respect i would suggest that you MYOB.

The guidelines are pretty clear on who is responsible for bogus logs, and it isn't you nor any other member of the community.

Cache Maintenance

 

The cache owner will assume all responsibility of their cache listings.

 

The responsibility of your listing includes quality control of posts to the cache page. Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements.

 

So what if it took you a while to find this one? How does anyone else's find, bogus or authentic, take away from the FUN you had with your experience?

 

My suggestion would be for YOU to MYOB... He has every right to report it to the cache owner and let the cache owner decide what to do about the situation.

 

If the owner decides to do nothing, then move on....

I think you left out the 'due respect bit.."

He certainly has the right, but that wasn't his question. He asked for advice on what to do. It's pretty obvious from my reply that I would MMOB.

[+ReadyOrNot]

With all due respect i would suggest that you MYOB.

The guidelines are pretty clear on who is responsible for bogus logs, and it isn't you nor any other member of the community.

Cache Maintenance

 

The cache owner will assume all responsibility of their cache listings.

 

The responsibility of your listing includes quality control of posts to the cache page. Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements.

 

So what if it took you a while to find this one? How does anyone else's find, bogus or authentic, take away from the FUN you had with your experience?

 

My suggestion would be for YOU to MYOB... He has every right to report it to the cache owner and let the cache owner decide what to do about the situation.

 

If the owner decides to do nothing, then move on....

I think you left out the 'due respect bit.."

He certainly has the right, but that wasn't his question. He asked for advice on what to do. It's pretty obvious from my reply that I would MMOB.

 

You didn't say that you would mind your own business, you told him to mind HIS own business.. Which led me to ponder if its your business what his business is?

[+wapahani]

If you feel deeply that you need to tell the owner, then do it.

Otherwise why let it bother you.

The cache is the owners to do as they want.

 

Why worry about it. If they make the claim and its false, they have to live with it, not you.

 

I wouldn't worry about it.

 

Sure its NO ONES BUSINESS but the owner of the cache and the false loggers.

 

Someone ought to add, CLAIM AT YOUR OWN RISK to every cache...LOL

[+wimseyguy]

Fixed; happy now?

 

And since he posted the question in the forums, it has become all our businesses.

[+ReadyOrNot]

If you feel deeply that you need to tell the owner, then do it.

Otherwise why let it bother you.

The cache is the owners to do as they want.

 

Some people view the world from a perspective besides ONLY how it affects their personal bubble. Perhaps the owner deeply cares and missed it? Whats the harm in letting the owner know that someone may have logged a find on the cache when they didn't actually find it?

 

Just a few weeks ago, I was driving down the road with my wife and an elderly lady had tipped over in her motorized scooter. She was extremely overweight and couldn't even get herself off the ground, let alone get her scooter back upright.

 

Here's the kicker. When we stopped to help her, she said she had been laying there on the ground for almost 10 minutes!!! This was in the middle of a weekend day on a fairly busy road. I would guess at least 100 cars probably drove past her and didn't help...

 

Perhaps they were thinking, "It's not my job, a cop or an ambulance will eventually drive by and help her"... Were all those people obligated to stop and help? No.. Was it illegal that they didn't stop and help? Probably not.... Are they rotten, miserable excuses for selfish human beings? YES.

 

(just for the record, i'm not saying you are rotten and selfish if you don't report issues to a cache owner, but i'm just drawing a correlation between the attitudes of those that don't think its their job or responsibility to assist in the policing of geocaching)

[+emmett]

.

 

There could be another explanation.

 

I had someone log an unlikely find of one of my hard caches (Insidous V). He claimed to find the final of a multi without having visited the stages. It turns out he had found an unpublished cache and somehow confused it for mine.

 

I never brought it to his attention until recently he posted a log indicating my cache might be missing. He did not actually believe me when I told him he had not found my cache and did not reply when I explained why he was mistaken.

 

Possibly that is the case here - maybe an unpublished cache or letterbox or something else.

 

On another ocassion, something similar happened when someone posted a find log on my Insidious IV cache when in fact he had found another of my caches (EWA-1) not far away. I did not realize the error until I later retrieved a bug he had placed inside EWA-1. I notified him so that the bug movement could be corrected and he apologized and changed all of his logs.

 

.

[+Tequila]

How can anyone, in their right mind, compare an elderly lady in need of help to a false log on a geocache????

 

Duh

[+Gan Dalf]

I'd ignore the situation, and never would have gone back to check on the cache.

With all due respect I would suggest that you MYOB.

The guidelines are pretty clear on who is responsible for bogus logs, and it isn't you nor any other member of the community.

Cache Maintenance

 

The cache owner will assume all responsibility of their cache listings.

 

The responsibility of your listing includes quality control of posts to the cache page. Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements.

 

So what if it took you a while to find this one? How does anyone else's find, bogus or authentic, take away from the FUN you had with your experience?

 

You act as though I already e-mailed the owner and the cheaters in question and that I went out of my way to check on this. Neither is true. As I said, I ride my bike past the spot where the cache is all the time. It's in a spot that I often stop to rest. Since I was there and I was curious about it, I decided to open the cache up and check the log. I never even had to get off my bike.

 

You chose an interesting line to quote from the guidlines. Especially "Delete any logs that appear to be bogus". My interpretation of this is that is what a cache owner SHOULD do. Since they did not, amnd the guidleines are clear on what they should do, I wonder if they are aware that someone has cheated on their cache.

 

How it takes away from my fun is that I was taught that when playing a game you should play by the rules. Part of playing the game is getting the satisfation that I was able to accomplish the same things as others. When someone cheats and says they did something I did without actually doing it, it minimizes that accomplishment, regardless of whether there are no winners in geocaching.

 

I'm not losing any sleep over this. I was just curious how others might feel. You've made yourself clear on how you feel. I appriciate your feedback.

[+Renegade Knight]

... I don't like or that I think is out of line. Still, when something is wrong with a cache or if I think there is something unsafe about the location then I feel compelled to tell the owner about it, if not post a Needs Maintenance or an Archive Request....

 

Here is the problem.

Do you as a finder have the actual expertise to determine if any particular cache is in violation of the spirit and intent of caching as well as the rules, regs, guidelines, community laws, engineering principals, and OSHA?

 

If you don't, you are just guessing, or more likely second guessing. That's a bad business to be in and will suck the fun out of every cacher you contact including yourself.

[+emmett]

There is a local puzzle cache.

 

I haven't solved the thing yet (I hate puzzles and push them aside normally), but while hiding a cache this past week I got a note from my reviewer telling me I couldn't place it there, as it was too close to another cache, being a puzzle (as I had accounted for the other caches).

 

While talking to a fellow cacher the other day I asked if that was his puzzle in there and he said yes.

 

When I retrieved my cache, I found the puzzle cache container on accident.

I didn't sign the log, or look in it.

 

Why? Because I didn't solve the puzzle and I didn't feel it was mine to claim.

 

That's interesting. I have found several puzzle caches without actually solving the puzzles.

 

Like you, I don't enjoy solving puzzles but I have enjoyed seeking these caches out without a puzzle solution.

 

I'd guess most folks would find my method more difficult than solving the puzzle.

 

But unless the cache owner specifically states a puzzle solution is required, I certainly consider it not only a valid find, but a good find.

 

You, too, have made a valid find though not in the manner anticipated.

 

Obviously, whether you log it or not is your business but that's my two cents of unsolicited feedback.

 

.

[+Renegade Knight]

...I often return to cache pages of caches that I have found to read if anyone else has found the cache since I had and to read what they said about it. A few days ago I went back to this particular cache page and noted that two people had recently logged a find on this cache. Both of these people had fewer than 10 finds. Because of the requirement of finding the Travel Bugs in order to solve for the location I was immediately skeptical that these newbie’s had found the bugs and solved for the final location. I checked their TB history and sure enough neither one of them has recorded ever finding one of the required bugs. Without them there is no way to know for sure where this cache is located....

 

So, what would you do? I'd really like to know.

 

I would do nothing.

A noob can happen on the TB.

A noob can have someone give them the TB info.

They could have tagged along wiht someone who had found it before.

they may or may not like logging.

 

Who the heck knows.

What you have is enough evidence to have a reasonable suspicion. What you don't have is proof of anything or even a prepondernace of evidence that support your suspicion. You either have a lot more leg work to do, or you have the grounds for a mental note in case you cross paths with them again.

[+Tequila]

Excellent response RK.

[+Gan Dalf]

How can anyone, in their right mind, compare an elderly lady in need of help to a false log on a geocache????

 

Duh

 

I agree, that was extreme but Thank you ReadyorNot for coming to my defense.

 

I would liken the situation similar to this. I was in a poular local summer bike ride weekend before last. It is a 200 mile ride that I completed in one day. Riders have the option of doing it in 2 days but I wanted to try for one. There were times during the last 60 miles of the ride that I wanted to quit, ut my bike on top of the car that my wife was shadowing me in, drive to a few miles from the finish line and cross the finish line on my bike. It's not a race that soemone wins and would have hurt no one for me to do something like that. In fact it would have saved me considerable pain and suffering. But I kept riding the whole way. Why? Because not doing so and crossing the finish line as though I had would have been cheating. I would have had to live with the fact that I claimed to accomplish somehting that I did not.

 

I find that people that cheat at things like this should be exposed becsue it is likely that they cheat at other things that may casue harm to others and they need to be taught a lesson. But perhaps I let it get to me too much and I should just let karma cach up with them. That's why I postd the question in the first place.

[+tozainamboku]

How can anyone, in their right mind, compare an elderly lady in need of help to a false log on a geocache????

 

Duh

GODWIN ALERT

 

Maybe people who don't tell cache owners that so-and-so didn't sign the log but claimed a find online are like the German people who kept silent during the Holocaust. Or maybe the people who do police the logs are like the Gestapo doing their job to hunt down the undesirables who are to blame for all of Germany's troubles.

[+trainlove]

I would ignore the issue unless it was your cache. I'm sure that the cache owner (and travel bug owner) himself would take care of it if he really cared. It's his rules that he's letting slide or not. He can instantly tell if someone has had one of his bugs.

 

I love these kinds of caches, and have done about a dozen. Check my geo-coin Banishment-be-rewarded http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?tracker=tb1htxa for these that I know of in New England.

[+TrailGators]

It's the same thing as people cheating on tests and getting an "A" when you studied your behind off and got the real "A." The point isn't the "A." The point is the actual achievement. "The journey is the destination." Nobody can take away what you did from you. It's a great memory.

 

It's better not to lift up rocks your whole life because you already know what's under them. However, in this case you did. So if the people didn't sign the log, I don't see the harm in shooting an email to the owner to let him know. After sending the email, I'd move on...

[+Mule Ears]

My advice: email the owner what you know, then do your best to forget about it. Oh, and if those cachers log one of your caches, check the logbook for their signatures on your next maintenance visit.

[+Gan Dalf]

 

Allowing oneself to be troubled over something like that is a bit like finishing a difficult crossword puzzle without help, and then feeling cheated upon discovering that someone else solved the same puzzle while peeking at the solution.

 

The analogy that this is most like is asking someone else how to solve the puzzle and then going and finding it yourself after they give you the solution. At least the person in your example filled in the spaces. These people didn't even do that, they just said they did. At least that is what is apparent from their lack of signing the log.

[+ReadyOrNot]

How can anyone, in their right mind, compare an elderly lady in need of help to a false log on a geocache????

 

Duh

GODWIN ALERT

 

Maybe people who don't tell cache owners that so-and-so didn't sign the log but claimed a find online are like the German people who kept silent during the Holocaust. Or maybe the people who do police the logs are like the Gestapo doing their job to hunt down the undesirables who are to blame for all of Germany's troubles.

 

That was beautiful!

 

BTW - I even stated that the comparison was only to show that some people don't care about anything outside their bubble. Even stating that the comparison stopped there, people will still make that leap. What can you do?

[CLV3]

With all due respect i would suggest that you MYOB.

The guidelines are pretty clear on who is responsible for bogus logs, and it isn't you nor any other member of the community.

Cache Maintenance

 

The cache owner will assume all responsibility of their cache listings.

 

The responsibility of your listing includes quality control of posts to the cache page. Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements.

 

So what if it took you a while to find this one? How does anyone else's find, bogus or authentic, take away from the FUN you had with your experience?

 

My suggestion would be for YOU to MYOB... He has every right to report it to the cache owner and let the cache owner decide what to do about the situation.

 

If the owner decides to do nothing, then move on....

 

Actually, the OP was asking for opinions. When you ask for opinions you are inviting people into your business. Yes the OP has the right to report it to the cache owner. Maybe it will mean something to the owner, maybe it won't. Maybe it would annoy me, but then again I do not analyze what others do but thats my choice. In other words, as long as people aren't destroying or stealing caches, I personally don't care what others do. However, my main point is that the OP was asking how others would feel and what they should do. You ask, you get answers.....plain and simple.

[+wapahani]

 

At least that is what is apparent from their lack of signing the log.

 

DING DING DING......I think you hit the nail on the head here.

You may not know this for a solid fact. There is much assumption here.

 

If the cache owner cares that much about it, then they will be checking the online log vs. the paper log. They can deal with it.

 

I relate this to the kid playing a game that cried when one kid cheated. after a few times of crying, you become the one that everyone points at, as well as the cheater.

 

You have already found it, move on. your not the owner of it. I don't mean to sound harsh because I'm not trying to. I'm just saying that if they (the owner) cares that much about it, then they will deal with it.

 

Don't let yourself get so worried about it. Its a game, have fun... you've played fair, you did your part.

[+wapahani]

If you feel deeply that you need to tell the owner, then do it.

Otherwise why let it bother you.

The cache is the owners to do as they want.

 

Some people view the world from a perspective besides ONLY how it affects their personal bubble. Perhaps the owner deeply cares and missed it? Whats the harm in letting the owner know that someone may have logged a find on the cache when they didn't actually find it?

 

Just a few weeks ago, I was driving down the road with my wife and an elderly lady had tipped over in her motorized scooter. She was extremely overweight and couldn't even get herself off the ground, let alone get her scooter back upright.

 

Here's the kicker. When we stopped to help her, she said she had been laying there on the ground for almost 10 minutes!!! This was in the middle of a weekend day on a fairly busy road. I would guess at least 100 cars probably drove past her and didn't help...

 

Perhaps they were thinking, "It's not my job, a cop or an ambulance will eventually drive by and help her"... Were all those people obligated to stop and help? No.. Was it illegal that they didn't stop and help? Probably not.... Are they rotten, miserable excuses for selfish human beings? YES.

 

(just for the record, i'm not saying you are rotten and selfish if you don't report issues to a cache owner, but i'm just drawing a correlation between the attitudes of those that don't think its their job or responsibility to assist in the policing of geocaching)

 

Sorry, but I don't compare old ladies to a cache. There is much different in those 2.

I would quickly aid the lady, as this is life and death. A CACHE ISN'T....!

[+OzzieSan]

Not Your Cache = Not Your Problem

 

If the cache owner wants to review the log they will, and then probably deal with the problem how they see fit.

 

You should feel good about completing the cache as intended and let the foks that are just looking for numbers have at it. The weather is great, go find some more caches.

 

Edit:

 

Upon further review it looks like the cache owner has plans to deal with bogus logs.

 

from the cache page

Finds without a corresponding travel bug find may be deleted.

Edited July 24, 2008 by OzzieSan

[+chuckwagon101]

Just two armchair finders in your area????

 

Come down to my section of the country and I will show you dozens of armchair cachers! Some of them have logged over a hundred daily! I can bust my tail and find 6 or 8 and there are these wizards around me that can find all these caches and not break a sweat!

 

Maybe we are doing it wrong....following the rules as such, physically finding the cache, signing the log with something besides cut and paste.........!!!

 

Just think of all the smilies we could get if we started armchairing!!

 

We could be..............CONTENDERS!!

Edited July 24, 2008 by chuckwagon101

[+ReadyOrNot]

Sorry, but I don't compare old ladies to a cache. There is much different in those 2.

I would quickly aid the lady, as this is life and death. A CACHE ISN'T....!

 

that's my point! I'm guessing 100 cars drove by before someone stopped to help her... We live in a selfish, me! me! me! world.. That applies to stopping and helping an old woman, or helping a cache owner by letting them know someone is abusing their cache...

 

I'm not saying they are equally horrifying.. I see those same attitudes here: ie, it's not your business, don't worry about it, let them deal with it, mind your own business, etc...

 

One would hope that the first car to see her would have stopped and helped her. I can't imagine how she felt with all these cars just driving by... Trust me, you couldn't have missed her laying there.. And she was trying to wave people down too.

 

Back on topic:

Don't help the cache owner.. He probably doesn't need the help and if he does, someone else will help. Don't feel any obligation, because it really doesn't affect your bubble at all.. And that's what it really comes down to doesn't it... How does this affect me? If it doesn't?

 

DRIVE ON.........

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Now I am compelled to either write to the owner of the cache and/or the posters of these logs and let them know what I have found.

Compelled to? Really? Do you feel compelled to right all wrongs?

 

I know, it's not my cache and really none of my business

Bingo! You knew the answer to start with!

 

but it really annoys me that they would take credit for a cache they never discovered. Especially when it took me so long to find it properly. I just can't understand how it is fun for some people to just log a cache they have never found. It kind of defeats the purpose of the game.

I totally agree, it is annoying that people do such things. To me it's not so annoying that I feel compelled to swing into action, but that's just me.

 

I'm curious to know if anyone out there feels the way I do and would contact the cache owner to let them know that the two newest loggers did not actually find the bugs or the cache OR if you would write to the cheaters and tell them you know what they did.

I am sure that some do. I suspect that most wouldn't even let it be a bump in their path, it is really a pretty trivial thing to get upset over.

 

So, what would you do? I'd really like to know.

I would move on without even thinking about it. If I let myself get bogged down in other people's problems that I did not create and can't fix I'd be a pretty busy and unhappy individual. To me everything is relative. Say the speed limit is 60... If a car speeds past me on the Interstate at 80 I don't call the cops and report a speeder. If that speeder is wandering all over the road and appears to be drunk I do.

 

I would call the armchair logger equal to the speeder... sure, he's breaking the law but he's not likely to hurt anyone, and as much as I would like for folks to do things my way they just aren't gonna do it!

Edited July 24, 2008 by TheAlabamaRambler

[+Gan Dalf]

Now I am compelled to either write to the owner of the cache and/or the posters of these logs and let them know what I have found.

Compelled to? Really? Do you feel compelled to right all wrongs?

 

No, not all wrongs, But would it be a bad thing if I did?

 

I mistyped this, what I meant was, I feel compelled...

But I think you got that.

[+ReadyOrNot]

[if I let myself get bogged down in other people's problems that I did not create and can't fix I'd be a pretty busy and unhappy individual. To me everything is relative.

 

Relative morality.. Never would have guessed on that one

 

You're right, people shooting down the highway at 80mph isn't a danger to anyone... Certainly more of a danger than a false-logger, so I don't get your point?

 

This isn't about danger. It's simply about right and wrong. If i'm in the grocery store and I see a cashier give too much change to someone and they say nothing and try to get away with a few extra bucks, you darn well bet I am going to say something to them, march them right back in the store and make them give the money to the cashier.

 

Is it my business? No.

Is it going to hurt anyone? probably not.

Do I feel good distributing justice! ABSOLUTELY!

[+wapahani]

There aren't any connections between the 2 you mention though!

Seeing someone laying on the roadside is one thing, seeing someone that might not and I say that broadly, might not have really logged a cache, that is just trivial.

 

I'm not going to pass someone by on the street.

Comparing that to a cache that we can't be certain that was followed to a Tee, come on please.

 

If the owner has set rules, then obviously they will be checking on the cache.

 

Worrying about a cache isn't the same thing as a person laying roadside.

[+Rockin Roddy]

 

I find that people that cheat at things like this should be exposed becsue it is likely that they cheat at other things that may casue harm to others and they need to be taught a lesson. But perhaps I let it get to me too much and I should just let karma cach up with them. That's why I postd the question in the first place.

 

Does this really affect you? If not, you are working yourself up for nothing.

 

These people aren't cheating the bank out of your money, they're not cheating you out of a job...they're cheating (and even THIS hasn't been proven, just an assumption) themselves of a bit of fun (in your opinion). Life goes on!

 

Back to your question...first off, I'd have never stuck my nose into another cache owner's business unless the problem affected me personally. Since you did, you can report your findings to the cache owner....BUT....what if the cache owner does nothing?? Will you then report the cache as needing archived since they won't do as you feel is needed?? Where does this end?

 

Life is much too short to worry about such nonsense!

Edited July 25, 2008 by Rockin Roddy

[+Harry Dolphin]

The pertinent thing here is:

Cache Maintenance

 

The cache owner will assume all responsibility of their cache listings.

 

The responsibility of your listing includes quality control of posts to the cache page. Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements.

 

It is the cache owner's responsibility. Not mine. Not yours.

A note to the cache owner might be in order, but I would not appreciate it.

 

As to other points brought up:

Finding a mystery cache without solving the puzzle is called 'brute forcing' not 'cheating'. Sign log - Get Smiley. I annoyed the heck out of the Second To Find on one of those.

Arm chair logging does affect the rest of us. One virtual that I greatly enjoyed was archived because of the arm-chair logging. It has since been un-archived. Hopefully the owner has resolved the problem.

[+Rockin Roddy]

 

As to other points brought up:

Finding a mystery cache without solving the puzzle is called 'brute forcing' not 'cheating'. Sign log - Get Smiley. I annoyed the heck out of the Second To Find on one of those.

Arm chair logging does affect the rest of us. One virtual that I greatly enjoyed was archived because of the arm-chair logging. It has since been un-archived. Hopefully the owner has resolved the problem.

 

Maybe it does and maybe it doesn't, that's not the point here as no proof has even been given that this was an armchair logging! I can think of several ways to have found the coords without moving the TBs.

 

We're working off the assumption of someone who (IMHO) feels cheated because someone found a cache easier (in their perception) than this OP did! From what I read, this person also feels the need to right wrongs as they could lead to bigger problems in life.... My thought, if it isn't my problem, it's one less thing to worry about in life!

[+KoosKoos]

I wouldn't think twice about it and I've move along to enjoying other caches.

[+traildad]

You could post a note on the cache page. You can exclaim how wonderful it was that the newbie cachers were able to find this cache so easily and with out finding the bug. You can say, oh by the way you forgot to sign the log book. Keep it light and fun and maybe you can get the point across without causing a ruckus. Then if the cache owner wants to, he can follow up. If not you might at least feel better that it is out in the open, and they are exposed.

 

Then again they are new. Maybe they just logged the wrong cache online by mistake. It could happen.

[+Gan Dalf]

The pertinent thing here is:

Cache Maintenance

 

The cache owner will assume all responsibility of their cache listings.

 

The responsibility of your listing includes quality control of posts to the cache page. Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements.

 

It is the cache owner's responsibility. Not mine. Not yours.

A note to the cache owner might be in order, but I would not appreciate it.

 

I've already replied to the point about the guidlines so I am not going to reply to that again however as to what you would appreciate, we differ on this. If this was my cache, I would very much appreciate it if someone brought it to my attention.

 

As to other points brought up:

Finding a mystery cache without solving the puzzle is called 'brute forcing' not 'cheating'. Sign log - Get Smiley. I annoyed the heck out of the Second To Find on one of those.

Arm chair logging does affect the rest of us. One virtual that I greatly enjoyed was archived because of the arm-chair logging. It has since been un-archived. Hopefully the owner has resolved the problem.

 

This isn't brute forcing a cache. Brute forcing means you actually found it, albeit without solving the puzzle but you found it. You say "Sign log - Get Smiley". Key point... no signature on log, no Smiley. I get annoyed by brute force finds as well, primarily becasue I can't do it, but I would never write to someone and tell them that... Take that for what it's worth.

[+briansnat]

Considering the possibility that the owner might care, I would probably drop the cache owner a quick e-mail letting him know what I found.

 

I know if I were the cache owner I'd appreciate the help.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Considering the possibility that the owner might care, I would probably drop the cache owner a quick e-mail letting him know what I found.

 

I know if I were the cache owner I'd appreciate the help.

 

You're assuming the owner doesn't know about this....and this seems unlikely to me! The owner would be able to easily know if the cacher found the TBs required, this would automatically put up a red flag if I were the owner.

 

In the end, the only thing this would do is satisfy your need to say something...to make it known that you feel they were "cheating". (you and your used generically here)

[Dinoprophet]

I know this much: you have some nasty puzzle makers in your area!

[+Capaldo]

As the finders in question are noobs, it seems more likely to me that their find is a mixup of some kind and not intentional 'cheating.' It seems quite likely that they simply logged the wrong cache. I've had this happen on my own caches before, and a polite email exchange sorted out the situation.

[+TrailGators]

You could post a note on the cache page. You can exclaim how wonderful it was that the newbie cachers were able to find this cache so easily and with out finding the bug. You can say, oh by the way you forgot to sign the log book. Keep it light and fun and maybe you can get the point across without causing a ruckus. Then if the cache owner wants to, he can follow up. If not you might at least feel better that it is out in the open, and they are exposed.

 

Then again they are new. Maybe they just logged the wrong cache online by mistake. It could happen.

This is the best solution I've read including my own previous suggestion. It gets the point across in a friendly way. If it was a mistake then nobody gets needlessly shamed. Edited July 25, 2008 by TrailGators

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

In the OP you asked for our opinion. So far you have argued with everyone whose opinion differed from yours.

 

Looks to me like you want validation, not our opinion.