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Coordinate Corrections


bettsbugs
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A few months ago we did a cache where the posted coordinates were quite a ways off. My husband can be quite stubborn when looking for a cache and eventually located it. In our log, because of a large number of DNFs, we posted new coordinates for the cache in an effort to help the cachers that followed us.

 

Nothing in the cache log indicated that the cache was a puzzle type cache or that the coordinates weren't the exact location of the cache.

 

I felt at the time we were doing the right thing, but after reading the response in another thread regarding hints, I now question whether not not we should have. I am not curious what the caching etiquette would be for this type of situation.

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Some times the people who place caches don't get good readings...or transpose numbers when publishing the cache.

 

I NEVER give updated coordinates to a Final of a puzzle cache...because that would give it away...but a regular cache that is found further away...I'll post corrected coordinates.

 

The cache owner can accept those or move the cache back to its original spot and make a note of that.

 

Here is one that I made. The original coordinates put you in the middle of a River.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...44-fbc5518a1a57

Edited by Drooling_Mongoloid
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I don't see why putting the coordinates you found the cache at would be an issue at all (if its a standard " here are the coordinates that will lead you right to the cache" sort of cache).

 

I'd say - if in doubt whether to put them in the log - email the owner prior to logging the find and simply ask.

 

In benchmark hunting - it certainly IS appropriate to do, either by including them in the text of the log or in a photo of the find.

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I'd probably start by e-mailing the owner. But I've seen the posted before. One cache the owner pretty much edited that they knew the original coords were off and they didn't have time (or something) to get them, so someone had posted their new ones and all was good.

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Some cachers seem to take great offense to the posting new coords. So if I do find a cache that I think is out of the normal range of accuracy I sometimes will make a note in the cache log. I never say "corrected coordinates" This seems to push buttons!! I usually say something like "I found it at N _______ W _______ with my GPSr." :huh:

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Some hiders wait until they have placed the cache, then turn on their GPSr & mark one waypoint *immediately* after it acquires a signal lock & leave. This results in the coords often being 100+ feet off (sometimes 1,000+ feet off) from the actual location. We have at least one hider in our area who's coords are almost always at least 70-120 feet off (of course, this hider takes pride in seeing numerous DNF's in their logs).

 

A very good way to do it is to have your unit turned on & sitting near the hide for a few minutes before marking the waypoint. I usually walk away from the cache hide at least 50 feet, then return and *wait* at least 10-15 seconds before marking a waypoint. I repeat this from three different directions, then write them out when I get home to choose the exact coords to post (the "waypoint averaging" feature on many units is a bad idea, one bad "mark" & you will still be way off). I get many comments that my "coords were dead-on".

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A very good way to do it is to have your unit turned on & sitting near the hide for a few minutes before marking the waypoint. I usually walk away from the cache hide at least 50 feet, then return and *wait* at least 10-15 seconds before marking a waypoint. I repeat this from three different directions, then write them out when I get home to choose the exact coords to post (the "waypoint averaging" feature on many units is a bad idea, one bad "mark" & you will still be way off). I get many comments that my "coords were dead-on".

 

That's similar to the method I use. I'll also check the coordinates at least once at a later date when I am at the cache.

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Some cachers seem to take great offense to the posting new coords. So if I do find a cache that I think is out of the normal range of accuracy I sometimes will make a note in the cache log. I never say "corrected coordinates" This seems to push buttons!! I usually say something like "I found it at N _______ W _______ with my GPSr." :huh:

 

I do about the same thing. Since I don't use a GPS, folks tend to be a bit more defensive if I question the coordinates, so I just say the Aerial Photo says it is at NN nn.nnn x NN nn.nnn or maybe something like "if your GPS gives you trouble, look about .007 southeast of the listed coordinates".

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I've seen very few who were all that defensive about their coordinates. I think most of us realize that on any given day you can have accuracy issues or even user error.

 

I have noticed those who just won't update their coordinates for one reason or another. It seems that about every 5 logs someone will post updated coordinates in their log just to keep it on the PQ's. :huh:

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I don't see anything wrong with posting coordinates in your log. That's what the coordinate field is for.

 

In fact as a cache owner I appreciate it. I had a cache where some people complained coords were off. A few of them posted their coords so I took an average of those, and changed my coords. The new coords seem to be dead on, as the complaints have stopped.

 

There are some people who intentionally post bad coordinates to "add to the challenge" :huh: . I doubt those people would welcome coordinates in the logs, but in most other circumstances (other than puzzles) I don't see a problem.

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I don't see anything wrong with posting coordinates in your log. That's what the coordinate field is for.

 

In fact as a cache owner I appreciate it. I had a cache where some people complained coords were off. A few of them posted their coords so I took an average of those, and changed my coords. The new coords seem to be dead on, as the complaints have stopped.

 

There are some people who intentionally post bad coordinates to "add to the challenge" :huh: . I doubt those people would welcome coordinates in the logs, but in most other circumstances (other than puzzles) I don't see a problem.

 

I'm with briansnat! If my coords. are off, I want to know. Isn't that the whole idea of posting coords.?

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One should, of course, use discretion. I've seen some people complain about coords that were five feet off. We all make mistakes. Sometimes the government is testing the missles in the silos underground. You have no idea how that affects GPS coordinates! (That's my story. I'm sticking to it!)

Some people deliberately use wrong coordinates 'to make it tougher'. They do not appreciate the corrected coordinates. (I got a log deleted for mentioning tha the coords were over a hundred feet off.)

Many cache owners will double check, if they're told that the coords are off. And correct the coords. Some will correct to the coords listed by a finder. Some will completely ignore the new coords listed. (Going for one of those this weekend...)

Thirty feet off? I can deal with that. Off in the middle of the lake? Please correct your coords. Top or bottom on the 40 foot cliff? Would be nice to know. I climbed that cliff four times!

But you're not using the same GPS as the cache hider. There will be some errors inconsistencies. Most of them, you learn to deal with.

As frex2wv mentions, for scaled benchmarks, everyone wants the corrected coordinates!

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I still like to think that anything within 30 foot of the posted coordinates is the norm. If I find the cache and my GPS says I'm 20-30 feet off from the posted coordinates I'll just mention it in the log (as part of my story). Anything over 30 and I'll probably post my own coordinates.

 

40+ and I'll definitely post my own.

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Thirty feet is getting pretty sloppy by today's standards, IMO. But in any case, unless the posted coords are WAY off from where I found it, I tend more to post a log to the effect of "Coordinates vary on the day and the unit, but today, I found the cache closer to <enter my coords here>". I could be wrong just as easily as the hider.

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Thirty feet is getting pretty sloppy by today's standards, IMO.

 

There are still a lot of cachers out there using those little yellow etrex's....hardly today's standard. :laughing:

 

But yeah...it's just as easy for the hider to be off as it is the finder. As always, YMMV.

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I can't believe the defensiveness of some people (not in this thread, ones who take offense to corrected coords), or perhaps I can. We recently hid our first 3 caches (after finding 300) and I did exactly what was mentioned earlier in the thread. Marked, walked away, marked, walked away, repeat as needed. Until I had numerous waypoints and then averaged. On one of our hides I had trouble getting good accuracy on my GPS so I NOTED IT on the cache page. I ASKED for others to give me feedback and let me know if the coords were off. So far everyone has said they were dead on, which is a relief. But if I'm hunting for or hiding anything I want the coords to be as accurate as possible. It's hard for me to understand why anyone would want their coords to be inaccurate, or why they would take offense to someone posting better coords if theirs were found to be off by a great deal.

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One of our local cachers has put out a series of caches recently saying something like, " Please don't post better coords, I like these just fine."

I don't have a problem with it at all, but wonder if coords are off a little and maybe intended to help some cachers hone their geo-senses???

I think even unintentionally bad coords do just that over time. Not like it isn't pretty common.

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Posting corrected coordinates on traditional caches does not rise to the level of hint. The listed coordinates are in the open therefor not a hint. You're only supplying your version.

 

I'd not supply corrected coords for some less than 30' off. Not likely for anything less than 100' off. More than that it's a good possibility.

 

In regards to the finals for any non-traditional physical cache, I'd certainly consider a correction based on a difference in the final solution, but never would I present my version of the absolute final coordinates. IMHO, that all critical coordinates (also known as non-bogus or non-general area coordinates) be as reasonably accurate as you can get them. I really don't care for intentionally bad coordinates. Thus, I have no problem with difference-based corrections for finder-derived coordinates.

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Thirty feet is getting pretty sloppy by today's standards, IMO.

 

There are still a lot of cachers out there using those little yellow etrex's....hardly today's standard. :laughing:

 

But yeah...it's just as easy for the hider to be off as it is the finder. As always, YMMV.

If we shouldn't post our own version of the coords, then why does the website offer it as a feature on the log page? :P

 

I'm with the cigar chompin' santa wannbe on this one. I'll post my own if I find it over 40-50' away and I'm getting good signals. Inside that range I'm looking at the terrain more than my GPS anyway. It's more fun to use the force.

 

Mileage certainly does vary and especially with the terrain. Last Sunday I was in a heavily wooded low lying area and was having trouble getting good signal on several caches, and when I did it showed my accuracy on my unit as 25-40'. I'm not going to post corrected coords in that situation. I hadn't seen my unit show rough data like that since I was in the woods in WA outside of Seattle. But when I am out in the open and near the shore, or caching in the NV desert I expect, and get accuracy of under 10' regularly.

 

So yea-YMMV and probably due to the terrain that you normally cache in.

 

BTW I'm caching with a Garmin 60c. I was the first kid on the block to get one a few years back, so it isn't very shiny any longer, but it has led me to a few caches. :D

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Sometimes people who find caches don't have good readings and don't know all the firmware issues with certain GPS's that can make it look like you are 100 feet or more away from the cache. This is not a Datum issue, but sometimes a GPS can get accidently set to a different datum without your knowing it.

 

Before correctinig the palcers coordinates be sure that you are absolutely sure about your coordinates.

 

If it's a micro then corrections are helpfull. If it's an ammo box, why bother?

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One time a friend and I took new coordinates for a micro hidden in a rockpile, because when we first got to the location, our GPS units zeroed more than 20 feet away towards the south, in an area where there were hundreds of possible hiding places.

 

After letting our GPS units average for several minutes, we saved the coordinates, however, we didn't check them against the cache coordinates . . . :(

 

I submitted the new coordinates to the cache page in a Note, since I had already found the cache. The cache owner dutifully changed the coordinates. The difference from the old coordinates was 5.3 feet . . . :rolleyes:

 

Good think the cache owner is a good friend . . . :(

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Sometimes people who find caches don't have good readings and don't know all the firmware issues with certain GPS's that can make it look like you are 100 feet or more away from the cache. This is not a Datum issue, but sometimes a GPS can get accidently set to a different datum without your knowing it.

 

Before correctinig the palcers coordinates be sure that you are absolutely sure about your coordinates.

 

If it's a micro then corrections are helpfull. If it's an ammo box, why bother?

Sometimes, even if it is an ammo box, it's a good idea. Last year we were FTF on one that was a third of a mile off. GC1002R. Got a LOT of exercise on that one.

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I use a Garmin CX Vista and someimtes I can find caches, spot on and sometimes it takes me anywhere between 20 and 200 feet from the cache. Thus I do not use it for placing caches. We use my husbahd's Magellan. We take multiple readings at different times of day and average them. The majority of our caches people say are dead on the coordinates. We do have a couple that are not so reliable. Buildings, power lines and then there are areas that are just really havoc for the GPS!

I would not post new coordinates on some one else's page. If the cache was just ridiculously far off then I would probably e-mail the owner and let them know. (Unless I was out in the rain, fog...)

I have had some one post new coordinates for where they found the cache on one of my cache pages. Their coordinates did not help the next cachers anymore than the originals. BAD RECEPTION AREA.

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My rule-of-thumb is anything over 10m away I will likely average a waypoint while signing the log just to see what I get and I will post them in my log and mention that the coordinates were off for me. By the same token, I'll also make an effort to mention in my log when I found the coordinates to be good and solid.

 

It bugs me when people mention that they found the coordinates to be off and then don't say what they got for a reading. That doesn't really help the next seekers. It also is annoying when a cache owner won't fix the coordinates and people mention in their logs that "We found it using so-and-so's coordinates." but then don;t mention what those were -- c'mon people, if you found them useful keep them near the top of the logs for those doing paperless caching.

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