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Caches in or near children's play areas


Moote

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Sorry it appears the original text did not post

 

I have seen several Caches within or in very close proximity (within 10 meters, but even some distance beyond that is not good) to children's play areas;my question is do we really have the right to place in this kind of area, after all it could worry both children and their parents to see an adult acting furtive near a play area. Also what kind of person would think that this is OK or within reason to place within this kind of area.

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Often caches near play areas are placed to share a good park with fellow parents, however I would only search in these areas if children were in the caching party. :sad: One of my nearest unfounds is a cache near a children's play area, so I will be waiting till the Hoppers make their next visit and we can tackle it en-masse :sad:

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Often caches near play areas are placed to share a good park with fellow parents, however I would only search in these areas if children were in the caching party. :sad: One of my nearest unfounds is a cache near a children's play area, so I will be waiting till the Hoppers make their next visit and we can tackle it en-masse :sad:

Yes I understand, but your answer does show that there is some concern about the issue, as you yourself would not go alone, but with children to retrieve such a cache.

 

It does make me believe that such placements are in essence, not a good idea.

 

You state that caches can take you into a good park, but that is not an issue, as you can normally find a great place in most parks which would cause little, if any worry to see someone loitering; my original post was referring to caches placed near or in play areas, that is in my eyes a bad and unwanted encroachment into what I believe should be a protected area.

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...............that is in my eyes a bad and unwanted encroachment into what I believe should be a protected area.

It is not an encroachment on a protective area. If you were to be stopped by the police for suspicious activity, there is in fact nothing that they could do, except ask you to move along.

 

With that said I do agree with your sentiments. Quite simply a cache shouldn't be placed anywhere, where a person may be alarmed at your actions. Most people believe this to be locations such as military barracks, police stations, airports etc. etc. I personally believe that if a person becomes concerned of your actions around kids, then you have caused some form of alarm.

 

So yes, we should refrain from placing them in play parks, but there is nothing to say that you are doing any wrong by either placing or searching for one in such a place.

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as a non patent who visits play parks often (with my 3 yo godson) i can understand this concern. These days many people are on the lookout for what they percieve to be suspisious behavour and are very swift to point fingers. (not always a bad thing but sometimes too quick)

One of our favourite parks is in a country park near a hunting lodge (no longer used for that purpose). It is just screaming out for a cache and while i want it to be easily accessable to our fellow junior cachers with out them having a long walk i also wouldn't place it anywhere near the play park.

Not just from the 'acting suspicious' in close proximity to children but from a muggle point of view too. caches that are placed in excessively high traffic areas will suffer from muggle problems... Mum and grandma are sitting on the bench watching the children so we are not going to be able to recover the cache stelthily without looking suspicious. and they are probably going to go look to see what you were in at after you've gone too.

Let us cache at the other end of the car park.

Edited by ljay
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Hate to say this but this is what we are losing to the pervs. A normal upright citizen is worried about being close to a childrens play area.

 

I have placed a few caches in parks, and one is very close to the play area. The local council places public art near to these areas, and I for one do look at this stuff even if i dont always understand it. I can understand the problem if the cache is hidden in bushes, who wants to be seen lurking in bushes but the cache setter should use some commonsense here and think about the placement.

 

I do get on my high horse when folk think we should behave differently because it is a area for children, it is a public area and we should not be worried about taking part in a legit activity, its about time honest folk stood up and let the perv be ashamed of their actions. Also if you look at it another way if your there doing the cache then its less likely a perv will be hanging around, they dont want folk being there.

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Hate to say this but this is what we are losing to the pervs. A normal upright citizen is worried about being close to a childrens play area.

 

I normally choose not to do caches near childrens play parks - but I choose not to do lots of types of caches, that doesn't necessarily make them bad caches.

 

If a cache is placed, with appropriate permission, people will make their own choice about whether to do it or not. The cache owner will soon get the message if it was a good place or not - but whatever and wherever the cache is, some will like it and some not.

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I do get on my high horse when folk think we should behave differently because it is a area for children, it is a public area and we should not be worried about taking part in a legit activity, its about time honest folk stood up and let the perv be ashamed of their actions. Also if you look at it another way if your there doing the cache then its less likely a perv will be hanging around, they dont want folk being there.

So called "pervs" are found in all walks of life, maybe even caching; the sad fact is that they will always exist. Because of this sad but true fact, we as Cachers should not and must not make others concerned or worried about our behavior in public; any such worries that our behavior causes can only be bad for the game.

 

This is not the place for me to become political, but no amount of legislation will stop theses worries, as new ones spring out of the woodwork. Yes it is sad that because of a minority we have to be careful but that is a fact of life, and as a responsible person we need to accept that; after all placing a cache in such an area might just be giving someone the excuse to be there, and allowing them to slip the net in the short term.

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If you think that a particular cache placement could bring the UK caching community into disrepute, just email your local reviewer.

 

I am aware of a few caches that were placed in close proximity to play areas this year, which once brought to the attention of a reviewer were retracted until they were moved away.

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I visited a playground once to solve co-ordinate clues for a multi cache, luckily I could get the information I needed without leaving my car, but I did feel uncomfortable at the thought of being a man on his own wandering around a play area writing things on a piece of paper.

 

I agree with the point about caches being muggled in high traffic areas too, especially if there are alot of children playing in the area, quite often the trees and bushes in a park attract as many kids as the swings and slides, I know if caches existed in my local park when I was a kid, I would have found them by accident pretty quickly.

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If you think that a particular cache placement could bring the UK caching community into disrepute, just email your local reviewer.

This is a good point, and is what you should do.

 

It would appear to me as though Moote may have an underlying reason for this thread, and I am just waiting for the noose to be tied and some poor cacher to be strung up!! :)

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I totally agree with the OP's point. It's just common sense.

 

It can go further though.

I have also visited a cache (at dusk) near a bus shelter where a young woman was waiting for a bus and felt it was unfair on her to search.

Also, I tried to do maintenance on a cache today which is by a path that is usually pretty quiet. Today it was like Oxford Circus with Christmas walkers and kiddies. I felt so awkward hanging around waiting for a break that I gave up and moved on. :)

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I have done a couple of caches that have been what I consider to be too close to children's play areas. One was part of a Multi and after several complaints of its position - was relocated.

 

The other is the cache itself and although its 30 feet or so from the play area I did get several strange looks from parents as I passed by.

 

Sadly we live in strange times and keeping clear of such areas would be a sensible idea until attitudes change (unlikely)

 

IMHO

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Sad state of affairs we are in.

 

Can I just say in my defence the caches in the parks that are near childrens play areas are not in bushes or the play areas themselves. Not willing to give too much away here, but a few of our cachers have been to them over the last few days and no-one said they should be moved.

 

However I will say that we do have a legitimate right to cache in these areas (with common sense), but where do we draw the line. If we cross off parks then is it nature reserves or walks along river banks or no caches within a mile of a school or Hadrians wall. All these areas are used by children, maybe we should just pack it all in and go birdwatching, ooops can't do that I am a man with bino's therefore i am a danger to anyone who does not know me. OK I have lets try ballroom dancing, nope cant do that my niece and her mates are there allready.

 

Sorry I dont mean to be stroppy or anything I am just trying to make the point that if we start banning one area soon it will be another then another then another then I may as well throw my machines in the bin.

 

Lets use some common sense here and stop acting like social workers or politicians (unless you are a social worker or politician) Anyway

 

A HAppy New Year to you all and Happy Hunting in 2008 where ever you choose to hunt.

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I can understand the sentiment behind the thread but from personal experience I have to agree that we have to continue to make use of these areas so that the less desirable people feel unable to go there.

 

This applies to not just pervs but druggies and even teenagers intending to get drunk and cause damage. All these people will not go to these locations if they are frequented by the rest of us.

 

But practically it would be better for single males to wait till they can get the cache either with a child or with others so that they do not appear to be suspicious and cause upset. This is just the same as any situation where getting the cache would attract too much attention and either cause suspision or getthe cache muggled.

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There's lots of good common sense in the replies to your post, Moote. If you feel awkward around a children's play park as a single male cacher, then don't do those caches. There are many situations in which it is sensible not to pursue a cache. An example springs to mind when HH, roolku and I were out on a night caching spree and abandoned one because we didn't want to start the dogs barking at a nearby farm and thus cause alarm to the residents.

 

It's not sensible either, however, to place a ban on or discourage caches in certain locations just because some cachers in some circumstances may arouse suspicion. We may as well all give up the hobby. We have to let cachers judge themselves what it is appropriate. And inevitably, we sometimes will have to explain ourselves to the police (as HH roolku and I had to do on another night in a park area in Perth). Mind you, the headtorches made us look highly suspicious!

Edited by Firth of Forth
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I can understand the sentiment behind the thread but from personal experience I have to agree that we have to continue to make use of these areas so that the less desirable people feel unable to go there.

 

This applies to not just pervs but druggies and even teenagers intending to get drunk and cause damage. All these people will not go to these locations if they are frequented by the rest of us.

 

But practically it would be better for single males to wait till they can get the cache either with a child or with others so that they do not appear to be suspicious and cause upset. This is just the same as any situation where getting the cache would attract too much attention and either cause suspision or getthe cache muggled.

 

I agree

 

They are public areas - they are not reserved for the exclusive use of children and their paranoid parents (maybe they should spend more time watching their own kids and not scoping potential axe murderers :) )

 

Anyway, playgrounds are really only useful as potential sources of clues - they are generally too muggle-rich for use as hides . This is notwithstanding my US experience - I have found quite a few caches in the US [normally even more paranoid than here!] actually attached to playground equipment!!

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I have found quite a few caches in the US [normally even more paranoid than here!] actually attached to playground equipment!!

It's sad to have to say this, but I'm uncomfortable looking for caches (or even clues to caches) in Britain if it involves appearing to "hang about" near playgrounds. I often cache alone, and I would get the feeling that I'd be viewed suspiciously in such places. In other countries - as macroderma notes - I wouldn't worry about it at all, but I would prefer that British geocachers avoid setting caches which take you close to playgrounds.

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Personally I always scan though the nearby unfound park/pram/child friendly caches and look for the magic words "play area".This is because I nearly always have my children (aged 5 and 2) with me when I am caching and (with the older one in particular) part of the bargain of dragging him outside away from his toys is that "Daddy will have his fun rooting around" and then we will get to the play area.

 

Half my caching trips involve playgrounds and parks I have even made a bookmark list of the best ones. In all that time I have only ever come across one cache that was somewhat too close for comfort to the actual play area (I was first to find on it), a few people commented on it in their logs and it was quickly archived. I don't think its really a great problem. There's a cache in my home village (not placed by me) that is near a playground but its far enough not to be a problem, now there's bugger all there apart from the playground and there's a couple of derrogatory comments in the logs saying "why put one here? ". Well I know the setters have children and the reason they have placed it there is for the benefit of people like me.

 

I would urge people not to be put off placing caches in parks/playgrounds, I've placed a few myself. If it wasn't for these my finds count would be greatly reduced! I spend a lot of my time at weekends and summer evenings at playgrounds and I can tell you that most parents are not constantly scanning the horizon for potential paedophiles. They are keeping an eye on their kids, not in case they are molested but in case they fall off whatever they are climbing/spinning on. This whole thing has a got bit out of hand, as I understand it when children are molested its nearly always by someone they know, personally I am far more worried about mine getting run over, so don't get me started on caches by busy main roads (a different debate though!)

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I have adopted a cache that is about 150m or so away from a childrens play area and wasn't bothered by the proximity and as I have a 11 year old daughter who caches with me I suppose that is why. However the cache was found today and the finder commented on being a single male and feeling out of place so I came to the forums to post a question and found this already here.

 

If we are to be aware that we may be setting caches in family friendly areas and that may cause problems for cachers who cache along whichever sex they are then that may rule out many areas for caches including most public places .

 

I have to ask the question do cachers without children feel uncomfortable simply walking alone through a park say purely as a means to reach another location in the course of their daily lives ?

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Its not about the "RIGHT" but the UK is slowly becoming a nanny state were even children have to wear safety googles to play a simple game of conkers. How close is too close ?

 

My adopted cache in relation to the play area as an example the green arrow is the cache and the paly area is in the bottom left corner.

 

twisted.jpg

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Its not about the "RIGHT" but the UK is slowly becoming a nanny state were even children have to wear safety googles to play a simple game of conkers. How close is too close ?

 

My adopted cache in relation to the play area as an example the green arrow is the cache and the paly area is in the bottom left corner.

 

twisted.jpg

That distance look reasonable to me, but it is about common sense, I have seen caches either on the edge of the marked boundary of a play area and as little as 10ft away.

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That certainly doesn't seem too close to a play area Matrix. If anyone pases by me and I surprise them with my presence or seem threatening by my "unusual' behavior, I feel uncomfortable. Experiencing an elderly couple suddenly blanch and scurry away from me does nothing to enhance my geocaching experience. I know we can't please everyone all of the time but in placing a cache we should keep in mind that passers-by could be frightened and with good reason. I know of no other sport or lawful activity that involves loitering, lurking and popping out of bushes. Staying off the 'beaten pathways' may help to avoid giving someone a fright and save all the time wasted trying to explain to a police officer what are intentions are (or aren't). Just my experience.....

 

Kindly,

buddie

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If we are to be aware that we may be setting caches in family friendly areas and that may cause problems for cachers who cache along whichever sex they are then that may rule out many areas for caches including most public places .

 

I have to ask the question do cachers without children feel uncomfortable simply walking alone through a park say purely as a means to reach another location in the course of their daily lives ?

I don't think anyone would or is suggesting not putting caches near family friendly areas. I actually think it's a good idea that caches are put in places with easy access to things that children are interested in such as playgrounds. However, there is a huge difference between that and putting the cache next to a children's playground where a single male acting in a shifty manner may well make parents of the children unnecessarily worried. In the relatively few of this type that I have come across, there has always been a suitable location a short distance away that would enable me to cache unselfconsciously, minimise stress to the parents and enable cachers with kids to still take advantage of the playground. I would rather not have to approach the children's parents before I start searching to tell them, "Yes, I'm a weirdo, but not in any way you need to worry about- it's just that I'm a geocacher." :)

Edited by Pieman
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I have to ask the question do cachers without children feel uncomfortable simply walking alone through a park say purely as a means to reach another location in the course of their daily lives ?

 

No - as long as parents also realise that it is a thoroughfare. So if a footpath came to an end (a cul-de-sac type of set-up) with a kids playground there I would feel uncomfortable as I can empathise with the position of the parent. However if the footpath went past the kids playground onto somewhere else, then no, I would not have a problem passing by. I have as much right to be there as any other member of the public and to use the appropriate facilities correctly. That means me not sliding down the slide, and swinging on the swings! :)

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That distance look reasonable to me, but it is about common sense, I have seen caches either on the edge of the marked boundary of a play area and as little as 10ft away.

 

In the play area or close to it doesn't matter I don't think. There is a cache near me that is hidden in a piece of play equipment and was placed by someone with young children and in his words "it was placed to combine his childrens love of parks and caching". A good enough reason and the cache itself does no-one any harm at all.

 

We need to use common sense when searching for this type of cache, aborting the hunt if there are children around at the time of our visit and we feel we may arouse suspicion. My first attempt on this particular cache was on a Sunday afternoon and the area was full of children so I didn't even get out of the car. I revisited on a wet Wednesday morning when they were all in school so I didn't see anyone while I was there.

 

Just because a cache is available to be found at any time doesn't mean the conditions will be right to do so, whether it's in a play park or on a busy footpath. I think it adds to the difficulty of the cache to get the timing just right and it's all part of the fun.

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In the play area or close to it doesn't matter I don't think. There is a cache near me that is hidden in a piece of play equipment and was placed by someone with young children and in his words "it was placed to combine his childrens love of parks and caching". A good enough reason and the cache itself does no-one any harm at all.

 

We need to use common sense when searching for this type of cache, aborting the hunt if there are children around at the time of our visit and we feel we may arouse suspicion. My first attempt on this particular cache was on a Sunday afternoon and the area was full of children so I didn't even get out of the car. I revisited on a wet Wednesday morning when they were all in school so I didn't see anyone while I was there.

I'm with spannerman on this one. We had the same experience with a micro in the fence around a play area and it took a couple of visits before we found the play area deserted and we could log the cache undisturbed.

Slightly OT but a single man caching in an area with many dog walkers can also stand out and cause concern among the muggles.

Trevor

Edited by T.R.a.M.P.
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Interesting points made by everyone. As a parent of children aged five and seven, I'm absolutely sick to the teeth of the ridiculous paedophile hysteria in this country, and I'm not going to change my behaviour for anyone, thankyou very much. In a public place, I'll do what I like, as I can prove what I'm doing, and if it's legal and safe, I'll carry on doing it.

 

Obviously we need to be sensitive to people and aware of impressions we're creating, but if you're not going kiddy-fiddling, don't feel you have to apologise for your actions and allow the unjustified paranoia of a tiny minority of people ruin your life.

 

Remember - I say this as a parent - it's far more likely that my children will get squished by a bus than dragged off by a paedophile, and I fully intend to give them as much freedom as I had 25 years ago, even if it does freak out all the neurotic and panic-stricken people out there.

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Interesting points made by everyone. As a parent of children aged five and seven, I'm absolutely sick to the teeth of the ridiculous paedophile hysteria in this country, and I'm not going to change my behaviour for anyone, thankyou very much. In a public place, I'll do what I like, as I can prove what I'm doing, and if it's legal and safe, I'll carry on doing it.

 

Obviously we need to be sensitive to people and aware of impressions we're creating, but if you're not going kiddy-fiddling, don't feel you have to apologise for your actions and allow the unjustified paranoia of a tiny minority of people ruin your life.

 

Remember - I say this as a parent - it's far more likely that my children will get squished by a bus than dragged off by a paedophile, and I fully intend to give them as much freedom as I had 25 years ago, even if it does freak out all the neurotic and panic-stricken people out there.

Yesssss! :) Totally agree with this post. How many paedos actually lurk around bushes like we cachers do? :D I'm sure they'd be a bit more circumspect in their behaviour: they're the ones with something to hide, not us*. I'd be interested to know specifically what prompted the OP; the way it was written implied a personal issue. :lol: And yes, I'm a parent. :unsure:

*excluding tupperware

Edited by jerryo
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Just as I will never be able to go for any Caches which require mountain walking, rock climbing or kayaking, so some Caches which might at first glance seem easily accessible WONT be for everyone. For the Twixmas bash I placed a Cache in a kids play area. I did this because several people with kids were attending the event and the play area provided a suitable distraction for any of the kids in case they'd had more than enough of their parents staring at the GPS screen all day!

 

Why do we all assume that because a Cache has been placed we have the right to go for it? Use your common sense, and if you don't feel comfortable (as I sometimes don't if the Cache is down a dark alley, or up a mountain...) then just accept this one's not for you! For goodness sake there are plenty out there, and not EVERYBODY has the luxury of being single & childless, so why shouldn't they have suitable Caches placed for thme too?!?!?

 

/rant off ;)

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Why do we all assume that because a Cache has been placed we have the right to go for it? Use your common sense, and if you don't feel comfortable (as I sometimes don't if the Cache is down a dark alley, or up a mountain...) then just accept this one's not for you! For goodness sake there are plenty out there, and not EVERYBODY has the luxury of being single & childless, so why shouldn't they have suitable Caches placed for thme too?!?!?

 

/rant off ;)

 

It's a good point, but it misses what is a bigger issue - why the hell should I have to worry about being a single male in the proximity of children? I'm not a paedophile, and I'm dadgum well not going to let worry about whether people think I am dictate the terms of my life.

 

Lee

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Trying to give my twopenneth, as a parent, and acknowledging the scares that are put about by word of mouth and the media - are we not doing the same by extending this topic? are we not just proliferating and feeding the scaremongers.

 

Geocaching to me is a singular/family/club experience and the caches where placed can easily match the geocaching experience you want. Just plan around the type of cache you want.

 

Yes I know it misses the point about children and playgrounds, but as parents can't we continue to police ourselves and use common sense as already suitably highlighted in other posts?

 

So here I am taking a deep breath and saying lets acknowledge the points, lets continue with the wide various range of cache locations so everyone can enjoy themselves and try to impress on all around us (wether caching or not) some form of perspective.

 

Now I am going to put my head back down below the paraphet and hope that any onslaught is minimal.

 

Me and Pebbles

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