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Lions and Tigers and Bears?


HyperactiveGirl

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Hi.

 

I am a newbie, just started caching last weekend. I am originally from the backwoods of Maine, and I have never had to be afraid of crime or anything in my life. So I am wondering what I should watch out for and what I should take with me for protection while caching? I will probably be going out alone a lot unless I find a caching buddy, and sometimes I go alone at night to some urban caches, so I want to know what things I should watch out for in the city, since I am quite naive when it comes to urban living. I am also concerned about the snakes in Virginia. In Maine where I lived I was never scared of snakes or spiders because we didn't have any that were poisonous up there, so anytime I saw a snake I was never scared of it. But now living here I am scared of all snakes and have no idea what to do if I come across one close in the woods or which ones are poisonous. Any advice on these issues would be greatly appreciated. I want to be as safe as possible with my awesome new hobby. This is sooo much fun!

 

Thanks! :)

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I don't think there are a lot of poisonous snakes in your section of VA. Maybe some rare copperheads, but that's about it. In the rare instances you do encounter a venomous snake, the best thing to do is to give it a wide berth and move on.

 

In fact here are some snake habitat maps I just found online with a quick Google search:

 

arattlesnake_map.jpg

anortherncopperheadmap.jpg

aeasterncottonmouthmap.jpg

 

So the entire state is copperhed habitat, but they are incredibly rare in most places. If you were to see one consider yourself lucky.

 

As far as urban caches, the best advice is if something doesn't feel right, turn around.

 

Use your instincts. Be aware of your surroundings and walk confidently, as if you know what you are doing and where you are going (yeah I know that's kind of hard for a geocacher).

Edited by briansnat
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I like your advice about looking confident. The past few days I know I was not looking confident in the least, and need to try to do a much better job at that. Maybe after a few more caches I will get more comfortable with the whole thing. Great advice about the snakes too. Thanks!

 

Well, to begin with, I'd suggest you change your avitar to something like a snake, or maybe a tatoo-bound biker dude. Next, it may not be too late to change your caching name to something like "Bubba". And it definately is not too late to edit your posts in this thread to read like:

 

I like your advice about looking confident. The past few days I have definatly been looking and feeling confident, 'cause I'm buffed to the max! Maybe after a few more caches I will get to kick some more *** as I'm really loving this whole thing. Great advice about the snakes too. They make a great breakfast. Thanks!

Edited by knowschad
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Oh yeah... one more thing. Post a reply (even if false) to this thread : Do You Carry a Gun While Geocaching?

 

Seriously... I don't mean to poke fun at a serious subject. But you do sound a bit naive to me, based on the fact that you are admitting to as much in a public Internet forum. If you are a woman caching alone, (for that matter, even a man caching alone) you have to be very aware of your surroundings. Bring someone else along whenever you are going somewhere that you will not have the protection of the public nearby. This is just common survival and not specific in the least to geocaching.

Edited by knowschad
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I like your advice about looking confident. The past few days I have definitely been looking and feeling confident, 'cause I'm buffed to the max! Maybe after a few more caches I will get to kick some more *** as I'm really loving this whole thing. Great advice about the snakes too. They make a great breakfast. Thanks!

 

Well, I am buffed to the max, just didn't want to brag. :(

 

I can definitely hold my own if the situation arose. I have had to stare down a few bears and moose and bobcats in my day. A grown male is not so much of a challenge comparatively. I have a lot of martial arts, jiu jitsu, and boxing training, and i can leg press 900 pounds. So I am not some dainty girl wandering around in heels waiting to get pounced on. If someone did bother me they would be very sorry. I would just rather avoid such an encounter.

 

Excellent advice from everyone. Thank you all.

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I carry a hiking staff to probe areas for critters before I stick any of me in there. I've seen quite a few prairie Rattle snakes. They usually move off quickly. The few times they got real defensive , I just backed off a bit and went around them. Don't panic and run, you could run into something worse.

 

As for people, I generally avoid any area where the people seem unsafe.

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Ah, yes, A Woman's Guide To Urban Survival. Bet somebody's written the book (note to self: make sure someone's written the book!), but you're right to be concerned. No one thinks about being a crime statistic until she's a crime statistic.

 

A lot of it is common sense. Don't wear uncomfortable clothes (i.e., clothes that hamper your movements -- high heels, tight skirts, etc.). Look purposeful. Avoid ill-lit areas and dark alleys. If this means missing a cache or two, so be it.

 

You also need to develop an awareness of your surroundings. I'm a city girl, and I cannot think of a street I've ever walked down alone when I haven't been peripherally aware of who is on that street with me, who is walking fast, who is walking slow.

 

Carry a whistle; screaming just doesn't work in these days of non-involvement. If you must scream, scream "fire!" rather than "help!" (cf non-involvement, above). Carry other defensive aids as regulated by your state; I'm not talking guns, but some sprays require a permit.

 

What will *really* give you confidence is taking a self-defense class. They're often offered through community colleges, YWCAs, and women's organizations.

 

Yes, it's rotten that it's all on us, all these precautions. In a perfect world, men wouldn't prey on women. We live in an imperfect world, so you do need to learn to take care of yourself.

 

And get yourself a friend to go caching with! It's both safer -- and a lot more fun!

 

-- Jeannette

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I like your advice about looking confident. The past few days I have definitely been looking and feeling confident, 'cause I'm buffed to the max! Maybe after a few more caches I will get to kick some more *** as I'm really loving this whole thing. Great advice about the snakes too. They make a great breakfast. Thanks!

 

Well, I am buffed to the max, just didn't want to brag. :(

 

I can definitely hold my own if the situation arose. I have had to stare down a few bears and moose and bobcats in my day. A grown male is not so much of a challenge comparatively. I have a lot of martial arts, jiu jitsu, and boxing training, and i can leg press 900 pounds. So I am not some dainty girl wandering around in heels waiting to get pounced on. If someone did bother me they would be very sorry. I would just rather avoid such an encounter.

 

Excellent advice from everyone. Thank you all.

 

With your martial arts training a well picked hardwood walking stick makes a great bo.

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Many people fear snakes.. I've always wondered if it is more instinctive or learned.. but maybe checking statistics on real deadly encounters with venomous snakes will calm you a bit.

 

Older data will say 10-12 deaths per year in the US and newer data has it at around 6. If the nuts that try to pick them up, or keep them under their living room couch, are left out of the mix it's closer to zero. Compare that to spiders at 7 deaths and lightning at 54. Urban caches? I'm a woods person... and only do urbans in daylight.

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In my NYC neighborhood, you have to watch out for tigers. One romped by past my cache in Forest Park just yards away as it crossed a highway and caused a couple of car accidents. Funny thing is the cache is called Carousel and there are tiger and lions in the carousel to ride on. The real tiger neither found the cache, rode on the carousel or ate any cachers. Just goes to prove that two-footed varmints are more dangerous!

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Rattlesnakes, Copperheads and Water Mocassins (Cottonmouth) are all members of the Pit Viper group and all of them are poisonous. Rattlesnakes are the easiest to spot since they will warn you if you are too close. Copperheads and Rattlesnakes are generally scared of people and will move away if you let them. Cottonmouth are notoriously aggresive snakes and will come to you instead of running away. Therefore, do not go alone to an area in the woods with lots of water around. Always carry a walking stick (6 foot tall) when in the woods hiking. If an area looks snakey (pine straw, rocks, etc) use the stick to probe ahead.

 

For the most part that is the snakes category. Don't recall if Virginia has Coral Snakes are not. If they do, then avoid them as their venom is worse than the other 3.

 

Spiders... I think Viriginia is home to both Black Widow and Brown Recluse spiders, both of which are venomous. Rarely deadly however, unless you do not get treatment.

 

More serious is the urban critters. I would not cache alone in a downtown setting at night. Generally speaking, the criminals fit a profile that I will not bother to state here. You can find it out for yourself. Homeless people generally are not criminals, but they do panhandle quite a bit... ("Got a dollar?") which can be quite irritating.

 

Just turn on your radar and if an area looks unsafe, it probably isn't but why take chances?

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Recent visit to Reptile Gardens in South Dakota. A fact sheet they had included the following information: 75% of all rattlesnake bites in this country are to males aged 18 to 25. 60% of those bites also involved alcohol.

 

'nuff said........

Mental note, never go caching with my baby brother while drunk! ;)

 

Also being female and having cached alone on occasion, like everyone else states, just be very aware of your surroundings. There are people out there that like to place caches in some less than desireable places. We have one here that is under a bridge/freeway overpass where lots of homeless live, needles, condoms etc, lying around. (I have emailed the a** that placed it, over a year later and it's still there ;) ) I've been to a few cache locations and saw where my GPS was leading me and just told myself "No Freaking way am I going there", usually I come back with a crowd for those! Use your intuition and common sense, you shouldn't have a problem!

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I have been working in the outdoors for almost 30 years and snakes and spiders don't worry me a whole lot. I have more concern about falling and becoming injured or walking headlong into a hornet's nest. Meeting strangers in the woods can be a little unnerving, but I have never really felt endangered by anyone.

These concerns do not keep me from going in the woods but I take a few common sense precautions. Anything could happen tomorrow but its a lot more likely to be in a car wreck. A lot more likely.

Edited by rlridgeway
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What will *really* give you confidence is taking a self-defense class. They're often offered through community colleges, YWCAs, and women's organizations.

 

And get yourself a friend to go caching with! It's both safer -- and a lot more fun!

 

-- Jeannette

 

Excellend advice Jeannette about paying attention to your surroundings and using your peripheral vision. I have taken Jiu Jitsu for martial arts, along with Boxing, and some other self-defense arts.

 

I am hoping to find another friend to go caching with, but it is hard being in a new area. Not a lot of girls want to spend their weekends hiking through lost trails and tromping through mud. But I am determined to find some girls who do.

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Well, a few days after making this post, I got my very first taste of urban living and the criminal world.

 

I was going with a friend of mine to Walmart at 10:00 at night. Just as I turned the corner leaving my safe haven neighborhood (or so I imagined) with constant safety patrols and such, I saw a police officer flying down the street with his lights on.

 

Then I saw him turn off his lights and pull in the back entrance to the complex where the 7-11 is. I stopped at the stop sign, then turned the corner. As I passed the front entrance to the 7-11, a pickup truck came out in the lane beside me.

 

Then I saw the cop pull out behind him and turn his lights back on. I stopped in the middle of the road not sure what the cop was going to do and there were cars behind me. The light at the end of that very short street leading to a very busy road was red. I see the pickup truck slow down, and then the door opens. The driver of the truck jumps out of the vehicle while it is still moving!!!

 

My mouth dropped and I started yelling to my passenger to lock her door, as I fumbled to lock mine. The cop runs after the moving truck trying to stop it before it runs out into the busy intersection. The guy that jumped out of the truck stopped in the middle of the street and looked right at me. I didn't know if he was going to come after us or what!?! Then luckily he started running across the street. I waited and saw the cop got the pickup under control, and saw that the guy was walking on the sidewalk, knowing the cop could not leave that abandoned vehicle in the middle of the street.

 

So I proceeded to drive down the street in the direction the guy was headed. I pulled into a commuter lot where I couldn't be seen by him and watched the guy go down into the woods on the other side, so I called 911 to tell the cops where the guy went because he was out of site of the first cop. Within two minutes there were about 20 cops in the area, and they told me to wait so they could get a statement from me as a witness. They had search dogs and the whole nine yards going after the guy in the woods. It was just like something I had seen on "Cops" a million of times but never imagined it would happen right in front of me.

 

What really made me think was how the night before at about the same time I was at a commuter lot alone just down the street looking for a cache. I think even though this scared the poo out of me, it was also a very good experience in the sense that it showed me that even close to home, even in a brightly lit area, things can happen. I think it will also help me to be more aware of my surroundings, now that I have seen some sort of danger. Having never been in danger ever in my life, I didn't really pay attention to what went on around me, but I think that this was just what my mind needed to teach myself that I do need to be very aware of what is going on around me.

 

I don't know what the guy did, if he stole the truck or robbed a store or what, but the cops were very appreciative and thanked me for helping lead them to him. They said that most people would just keep on going and pretend like nothing was happening. I can't fathom that. I can't imagine seeing someone try to hurt others or doing something bad and ignoring it. I believe that if you are a victim you have to fight back with whatever means you have, and in this case it was notifying the police where the criminal went. I can't imagine not doing anything to help if something is wrong.

 

Anyway, long story short, I learned a valuable lesson from this experience.

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Well, a few days after making this post, I got my very first taste of urban living and the criminal world.

 

I was going with a friend of mine to Walmart at 10:00 at night. Just as I turned the corner leaving my safe haven neighborhood (or so I imagined) with constant safety patrols and such, I saw a police officer flying down the street with his lights on.

 

Then I saw him turn off his lights and pull in the back entrance to the complex where the 7-11 is. I stopped at the stop sign, then turned the corner. As I passed the front entrance to the 7-11, a pickup truck came out in the lane beside me.

 

Then I saw the cop pull out behind him and turn his lights back on. I stopped in the middle of the road not sure what the cop was going to do and there were cars behind me. The light at the end of that very short street leading to a very busy road was red. I see the pickup truck slow down, and then the door opens. The driver of the truck jumps out of the vehicle while it is still moving!!!

 

My mouth dropped and I started yelling to my passenger to lock her door, as I fumbled to lock mine. The cop runs after the moving truck trying to stop it before it runs out into the busy intersection. The guy that jumped out of the truck stopped in the middle of the street and looked right at me. I didn't know if he was going to come after us or what!?! Then luckily he started running across the street. I waited and saw the cop got the pickup under control, and saw that the guy was walking on the sidewalk, knowing the cop could not leave that abandoned vehicle in the middle of the street.

 

So I proceeded to drive down the street in the direction the guy was headed. I pulled into a commuter lot where I couldn't be seen by him and watched the guy go down into the woods on the other side, so I called 911 to tell the cops where the guy went because he was out of site of the first cop. Within two minutes there were about 20 cops in the area, and they told me to wait so they could get a statement from me as a witness. They had search dogs and the whole nine yards going after the guy in the woods. It was just like something I had seen on "Cops" a million of times but never imagined it would happen right in front of me.

 

What really made me think was how the night before at about the same time I was at a commuter lot alone just down the street looking for a cache. I think even though this scared the poo out of me, it was also a very good experience in the sense that it showed me that even close to home, even in a brightly lit area, things can happen. I think it will also help me to be more aware of my surroundings, now that I have seen some sort of danger. Having never been in danger ever in my life, I didn't really pay attention to what went on around me, but I think that this was just what my mind needed to teach myself that I do need to be very aware of what is going on around me.

 

I don't know what the guy did, if he stole the truck or robbed a store or what, but the cops were very appreciative and thanked me for helping lead them to him. They said that most people would just keep on going and pretend like nothing was happening. I can't fathom that. I can't imagine seeing someone try to hurt others or doing something bad and ignoring it. I believe that if you are a victim you have to fight back with whatever means you have, and in this case it was notifying the police where the criminal went. I can't imagine not doing anything to help if something is wrong.

 

Anyway, long story short, I learned a valuable lesson from this experience.

 

Good story Jen and thanks for doing the right thing. It is a shame that so many people are afraid to do the right thing. At any rate, keep caching and you will find a freind soon that loves the sport as much as you. With your training, I can envision you chasing down the criminal, tackling him, probably putting a few karate chops upside the head just as the cops arrive to throw the cuffs on. Now that would be a cool episode of COPS! <_<

Edited by groundhog123
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For all the time in the woods I have spent Geocaching I am not concerned about snakes or animals. I more concerned about poison ivy and Lyme disease, had them both.

Even worse than that in my area is the chiggers. You can get literally hundreds of chigger bites on your ankles in a matter of seconds if you haven't taken precautions. It will make you WISH you only had Lyme disease

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Well, there are bear in Virginia. I saw four along the AT in northern Shenandoah. But the shelters do have bear poles... (Always makes you wonder what you're doing there.) But I've also seen bear in New Jersey, Massachusetts and Maine.

I've geocached in some very strange places. Ignore the guys having sex in the woods. They won't bother you. Watch out for the micros on guard rails on busy highways. It's not usually wise to run across highways. (Yes. I've done that a few times.)

If you're nervous caching by yourself, find someone else to cache with. I know a female who almost gave up geocaching, until she found someone to go hunting with.

Generally, snakes won't bother you unless you bother them. Of course, that means you have to see them first. They do not like getting stepped upon!

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But the shelters do have bear poles... (Always makes you wonder what you're doing there.) But I've also seen bear in New Jersey, Massachusetts and Maine.

 

What is a "bear pole"?

 

I have come across bears in Maine many times over the years, along with a lot of moose and deer and fox and a bobcat once. Luckily I saw them before I got too close, especially the bears out there with cubs. I just walked away slowly away from where they were and they did not follow. Except for the one moose that I think was bored and wanted to hang out with me because he followed 30 feet behind me on my mountain bike for a whole mile.

 

It does get a little spooky sometimes out in the woods by yourself though. Most of the time I feel safer out there than in the city. But once in a while you just hear a sudden loud noise and it gives you a little spook, not knowing what caused the noise. But I think the danger is statistically pretty low of actually getting attacked by something, at least I hope.

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If you're backpacking in bear territory, you hang anything that a bear might be interested in (food, cosmetics, toothpaste, &c) where the bear cannot get at it. That's far enough away from where you are sleeping that the bear willnot bother you. Hang your goodies about ten or twelve feet in the air, four to six feet away from the tree trunk.

Bears, mice, porcupines and other vermin know that trail shelters are a food source. In Shenandoah National Park, the shelters have bear poles. Metal structures with hooks about ten or twelve feet in the air, where you can hang your backpack, with anything that the bear might be interested in. It gnerally seems to work.

Don't ask about the bear that I almost stepped on. It was not good for either of us!

 

But the shelters do have bear poles... (Always makes you wonder what you're doing there.) But I've also seen bear in New Jersey, Massachusetts and Maine.

 

What is a "bear pole"?

 

I have come across bears in Maine many times over the years, along with a lot of moose and deer and fox and a bobcat once. Luckily I saw them before I got too close, especially the bears out there with cubs. I just walked away slowly away from where they were and they did not follow. Except for the one moose that I think was bored and wanted to hang out with me because he followed 30 feet behind me on my mountain bike for a whole mile.

 

It does get a little spooky sometimes out in the woods by yourself though. Most of the time I feel safer out there than in the city. But once in a while you just hear a sudden loud noise and it gives you a little spook, not knowing what caused the noise. But I think the danger is statistically pretty low of actually getting attacked by something, at least I hope.

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Don't ask about the bear that I almost stepped on. It was not good for either of us!

 

 

I didn't know about the bear poles at the parks, but I guess we did the same thing up home, only we stuck the stuff way up in the trees. Thanks for the explanation, now I know!

 

Ok, now you HAVE to tell me about the bear you almost stepped on!!! <_<

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So I have spent another week hiking every day out in the woods, and spent some time up on the Appalachian Trail over the holiday weekend. Haven't seen a single animal yet although I have heard them on occassion. But I have been making a lot of noise while walking with all the leaf cover so hopefully I have been scaring anything off.

 

I noticed that some people attach "bear bells" to their packs to make bell noises while they are hiking as an extra warning. Does anyone know if that helps?

 

Also, I was wondering, if I am ever charged by a bear or deer or something, what should I do? Does pepper spray work? Right now I have no protection in the unlikely event that something decided I got to close or that I look like lunch.

 

Thanks for your help.

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Jen, I heard a story up at Glacier National Park several years ago about the bear bells that they'd been selling to the hikers. The story went that it got to the point where the bears started associating bear bells with the packs they were attached to (think dinner bells) and would start coming towards the bells instead of keeping away, hoping that the scared hikers would drop the pack with food inside as the hiker ran away! Not sure I place a lot of credence to the story, but it did cause a few chuckles when it was told. (Of course they were embellishing with a few "true examples"!)

 

We go in search of the wildlife when we're summering in the area around Yellowstone so hubby can take lots of pictures, but we keep a healthy distance since we feel that's what telephoto lenses were made for!

 

Good luck! Love your avatar, by the way!

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Jumping in late here, but.... As someone who lived in Northern Virginia for 14 years (and 120 miles north of there for 33 more); DO watch out for snakes. Cottonmouths in swamps, rattlers and copperheads in rocks and deep woods. Copperheads also LOVE old woodpiles (because mice and rats also love old woodpiles). Be very careful sticking your hand into one. As for being charged by a bear or deer, if a buck comes after you - and they will, especially in rutting season - try to quickly find a big tree, and keep it between you, and make a lot of noise. It will get tired of it, and move off. Black bears CAN climb trees (better than you), so that won't help. Carry a good sized walking stick, but use it as a last resort. Make a lot of noise, maybe throw some sticks, but move slowly AWAY. Don't be aggressive toward a bear, unless as a last resort (it's within stick range and still coming). Skunks are something to keep your distance from as well. They may not kill you, you'll just wish you were dead! :anicute:

Edited by geowizerd
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My advice, rather than caching alone, find a caching buddy. Even better than the added safety is the fun and camaraderie. Caching by myself just doesn't hold the allure of an afternoon of laughing with (and sometimes at) my caching buddy. He's afraid of cows (of all things) so I deal with shooo'ing them off the trails. And hopefully, if something were to happen, he'd drag my body out of the woods!

 

DCC

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I live in VA and so far have not met any snakes. Well, from a bridge I once saw one neatly tucked into a crevice just above a creek. It was cool watching him and I got some photos and lured him out by tossing a pebble in the water. I was told he was some kind of snake (rat snake?) that was not venomous in a lethal way but who's bite could make your blood decoagulate. :anicute:

 

You do need to be careful of copperheads. I know someone who was bitten by one and he suffered severe physical consequences quite a while after his bite. Just be careful in woods where there are hidey holes for snakes...under logs, in rock crevices. For the most part, they don't want to have anything to do with you either so they'll exit the area. Hidey-pokey sticks are good for prodding areas before sticking your hands into holes and such.

 

There are bears and unfortunately that includes urban areas these days so just because you are in a park near a city/town doesn't mean it's impossible to see a bear. Its not LIKELY. But recently a bear was spotted around here in a neighborhood.

 

I have been far more afraid of human beasts than I have been of the animal variety. I've had one situation that I consider myself lucky to have safely removed myself. Caching with a buddy is a good idea whenever possible not only for critters but in case of an accident like a fall or injury. Cachers can find themselves in risky situations (rocks, water, cliffs, etc.). Keep a cell phone with you if at all possible.

 

I've fallen several times and so far been lucky not to have skewered myself on a stick or bashed my brains out on a rock. :unsure:

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I agree, I do need to find a caching buddy. But right now just having moved to this area and not knowing anyone, that is kind of hard to do. Especially since I spend most of my time wandering around in the woods. Besides, I don't know a whole lot of people that like to spend their weekends hiking through mud and rain in the cold all winter. I am not one to sit around all winter so I won't stay home even if it means I have to spend the day alone, but hopefully I will find some caching buddies soon. I have a great time by myself, but would definately have even more fun like you said to have someone to laugh with and enjoy the good times. I am also worried about the safety factor. I fall a lot and worry I might break my leg or knock myself out, so I always keep my cell phone with me, but sometimes in some places like last weekend in the mountains, reception was intermittent. So having someone with me who could go for help would be ideal. So hopefully I shall make some friends soon. :anicute:

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In addition to the cell pone you should carry a whistle, particularly the type that don't have the pea in them. The harder you blow the louder it gets, can be heard from a mile a way, and you can blow them in the rain because the air going through it clears the chamber. The human voice can only be heard for a few hundred yards and even then not clearly.

 

I have the Fox 40 whistle and people complain about how loud it is, which makes it great if I get stuck in the woods with an injury that I can't walk out on my own power. There are others, I've seen these two carried alot.

 

Storm whistle

Fox 40 whistle

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Since I suggested a caching buddy... I checked the regional forums for your area and found two Virginia organizations:

 

The Northern Virginia Geocaching Organization

 

and

 

Virginia Geocachers

 

I'm on the West Coast so I don't know the "lay of the land" out there... but hopefully one (or both) of these groups is holding events near you! An event is the absolute best way to meet other cachers. And if these local sites have forums, you might be able to post a request for some Geocaching friends.

 

Hope that helps... enjoy and have fun!

 

DCC

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