Artist Edition

[+Eartha]

According to Wikipedia this is how an artist's edition is described when discussing print art:

The conventions for numbering prints are well-established, but there are other marks to indicate that the print exists outside of an edition. Artist's proofs are marked "A.P." or "P/A"; monoprints and uniquely hand-altered prints are marked "unique"; prints that are gifted to someone, or are for some reason unsuitable for sale, are marked "H.C." or "H/C", meaning "hors de commerce"--not for sale. The printer is also often allowed to take some impressions for themselves, these are marked with "PP". Finally, a master image may be printed, against which the members of the edition are compared for quality; these are signed-off as "bon à tirer", or "BAT" ("good to print" in French). Sometimes the number of the main, public, edition can be rather misleading - representing 50% or less of the total number of good impressions taken.

 

Standards need to be set for geocoins, if you are going to give them names. Please refer to this thread.

[+res2100]

I would say a special 1 coin makes an artist edition (given to said artist), anything more is just another LE.

 

AE should be limited to a very small number like less than 5 IMO.

 

The above 2 comments really make a lot of sense. An Artist Edition coin should be something SPECIAL that is given to the person who created the art for a coin. I look at the AE coin(s) as something special that the coin owner gives to the person that created the art as a THANK YOU for a job well done. This is a small amount like maybe 1 to 3 or maybe even up to 5 of an Artist Edition coin. Anything more, well then it really isn't special anymore. The most special to me if I did the art for someone would be to receive 1 AE coin, which I then would hold dear to me, because I know this was created for me. AE to me is not a form of payment or something to replace payment, but instead a form of a thank you for you liking the art that I did.

 

I was very surprised to read that some versions of Artist Edition coins that there were 30 made or even 5% of a run of 1000 coins (that would be 50 AE coins). If someone wants to call these Artist Edition, then I have no problem with that, but it seems excessive and the specialness of these coins is gone, atleast for me. There are LE versions of coins that have less made than some of these AE coins. I've got LE versions of some of my coins that have only 5 or 10 made of a certain finish.

 

I think an Artist Edition coin should be something rare and special that the Artist would cherish. Seeing some AE's sold on Ebay for $30-$50 also loses the specialness (muliply that by 30 AE coins, and the artist has been paid a whopping $900 to $1500 to do the art for 1 coin design) and in essence just makes it really nothing more than another version (LE) of a coin that just happened to have been give mostly to 1 person. If the artist chooses to be paid in coins in lieu of cash, then that also is perfectly fine, but perhaps this form of payment doesn't make it a true AE then, but it really doesn't matter what it's called...when it comes to reselling, it's really just a marketing ploy to get as much money as possible from the resale of it. Maybe this will introduce a new version/edition of a coin called APE (Artist Payment Edition)...something to think about.

[+DresselDragons]

This is my interpretation of an AE...

 

It is typically minted as a different version (metal, enamels, etc) of a standard edition coin

 

It is typically a limited version of the coin, and therefore should be a subcategory of LEs

It is NOT a proof. A proof is a sample of the coin, usually minted before the main run of the coin (to check the die for errors, color combos, etc). Proof/samples are typically non-trackable and labeled as sample or proof or the tracking field is labeled as XXXXXX.

 

It is typically given to the artist as payment for work completed

My interpretation of "artist" is: the artist is the person that takes the coin concept and makes it into a viable jpg (or other image file) that will be used by the minter to make the die. The artist may or may not be the person that developes the original concept of the coin (does that mean that should have a CE too - concept edition - JUST KIDDING).

 

I think that the AE is minted with the regular run of the coin (not before, like a sample) and it may or may not be trackable (although all of the AEs that I've seen for trackable coins are trackable)

 

Once the "artist" received his/her payment (the AE coins), the AEs are used for special trades or to raise $$ by selling them

[+AtlantaGal]

AE is a term used by a few select folks in the forums. It is simply a non-retail XLE version of the coin.

 

Any non-commercial finish payment coins I've received have always been referred to as XLE since there typically is 20-40 of them. I refrain from calling them Artist Editions simply because it is my design concept. I have a graphic artist bring my idea to life based on my specifications.

[+The Moop Along]

I would say a special 1 coin makes an artist edition (given to said artist), anything more is just another LE.

 

AE should be limited to a very small number like less than 5 IMO.

 

**snip**

 

I think an Artist Edition coin should be something rare and special that the Artist would cherish. Seeing some AE's sold on Ebay for $30-$50 also loses the specialness (muliply that by 30 AE coins, and the artist has been paid a whopping $900 to $1500 to do the art for 1 coin design) and in essence just makes it really nothing more than another version (LE) of a coin that just happened to have been give mostly to 1 person. If the artist chooses to be paid in coins in lieu of cash, then that also is perfectly fine, but perhaps this form of payment doesn't make it a true AE then, but it really doesn't matter what it's called...when it comes to reselling, it's really just a marketing ploy to get as much money as possible from the resale of it. Maybe this will introduce a new version/edition of a coin called APE (Artist Payment Edition)...something to think about.

 

This is my favorite yet, Res. APE is my winner. AE's are small meaningful XLE runs for the artist to keep, APE's are LEs for money making, trades, or payments. I vote to add the APE

[+DresselDragons]

This is my favorite yet, Res. APE is my winner. AE's are small meaningful XLE runs for the artist to keep, APE's are LEs for money making, trades, or payments. I vote to add the APE

I did not notice the "APE" thread earlier...I like the "APE" category

[+fox-and-the-hound]

This is getting ridiculous, but after talking to another artist last night I decide to check back on this discussion and answer a few questions. First of all, until I used the term Artist Edition, I'd never seen or heard the term in relation to geocoins in over a year of daily surfing on the forums. I started using the term when giving them out and people asked how I got ahold of these unusual versions of the coins. So unless anyone cares to argue the fact, I CAME UP WITH THE CONCEPT IN RELATION TO GEOCOINS and if you want to argue semantics go ahead and knock yourself out, but it won't change anything. Let me be clear on a few things. First, I am a professional artist. Second, I started designing coins to help out cachers in need of a designer who could not afford to have a professional paid and I still design that way. I charge between $40-$60 per hour in the real world for my design work and considering that I have worked as many as 20-25 or more hours on a single geocoin design that is just too much for most people to even consider as an option. The first time I designed a geocoin to be sold commercially I really just wanted to get my hands on some more coins to leave in caches. After a few designs I thought it would be nice to put some very special versions (which I called Artist Editions or AEs) out in caches to REALLY put some smiles on the unwitting finder. AEs are quite simply coins available only to the artist to hand out. I have never sold and AE although I have donated, gifted and left in caches quite a few. The main difference between and AE and an LE is that LE's are often available right from the start as being for sale or trade, but in limited numbers. The AEs are never, ever offered for sale (to public from a producer, but have been sold by the artist's themselves) and sometimes people don't even know they exist until they're discovered in a cache, etc. They are given to the artist in trade for their hours of work involved in developing a coin. If an artist decides to sell one later that can't be helped any more than a gifted coin being sold down the line, but it does not change the fact that AEs are only received by artists. They give them away, donate them and sometimes even sell them for a cause (charitable or not (the software we use costs thousands of dollars and has to be upgraded over time)).

 

So here are the facts:

 

1) An actual artist began using the term first.

 

2) AEs are thanks/gratuity for artwork completed.

 

3) AEs are limited, but are not standard LE which are often available to the public.

 

4) AEs (to my knowledge) are only associated with commercial or publicly sold coins. A personal coin would have LEs or XLEs dependent on numbers produced.

 

********zzzziiiiiiiiip! Ok, put on my flame retardent....let'r rip

Edited June 14, 2007 by fox-and-the-hound

[+kimba off track]

In my case I always ask for a metal not used for the big run and mostly ask for mine in glow. That way I know only mine are special edition.

[+The Moop Along]

**snip for brevity**

 

So here are the facts:

 

1) An actual artist began using the term first.

 

2) AEs are thanks/gratuity for artwork completed.

 

3) AEs are limited, but are not standard LE which are often available to the public.

 

4) AEs (to my knowledge) are only associated with commercial or publicly sold coins. A personal coin would have LEs or XLEs dependent on numbers produced.

 

********zzzziiiiiiiiip! Ok, put on my flame retardent....let'r rip

 

No flames dude You are truly an artist, and your work is in high regard with me. I have seen your first 3 or 4 artist editions, and yes, not many people know they exist. They are very high quality, and definitely worth the effort you put into creating them. Your class and demeanor in handling the artist editions you receive is definitely an example to be followed. Well done. And, I can't disagree with points 1-4, nothing there seems odd.

[+DresselDragons]

**snip for brevity**

 

So here are the facts:

 

1) An actual artist began using the term first.

 

2) AEs are thanks/gratuity for artwork completed.

 

3) AEs are limited, but are not standard LE which are often available to the public.

 

4) AEs (to my knowledge) are only associated with commercial or publicly sold coins. A personal coin would have LEs or XLEs dependent on numbers produced.

 

********zzzziiiiiiiiip! Ok, put on my flame retardent....let'r rip

 

No flames dude You are truly an artist, and your work is in high regard with me. I have seen your first 3 or 4 artist editions, and yes, not many people know they exist. They are very high quality, and definitely worth the effort you put into creating them. Your class and demeanor in handling the artist editions you receive is definitely an example to be followed. Well done. And, I can't disagree with points 1-4, nothing there seems odd.

 

I agree with TMA! No flames here (and that's coming from a dragon...LOL).

[+tadpole379]

After I came up with artwork for my coin, I sent out for quotes to a number of coin companies. Coins and pins emailed me back about a Geocoin reselling selling service that they offer. With this program, they use my design to mint a set amount of coins to sell in their store (250-300 coins). As payment for allowing coinsandpins to use my design, I would get 50-60 coins. I would not have to pay for the cost of minting, but would receive those coins for free because I am the artist of the design. Of those 60 coins, I could choose whatever metals, finishes, colors that I wanted. If I wanted them all in the same finishes/colors that are available to everyone else from the store I could do that, but if I wanted to make each of those 60 coins different in some way I could do that too because they are for me, the artist. And because they are my coins, I can sell them, trade them, keep them...etc., Because they might be different from the coins sold to the general public, they are LE, and they are also AE, because they are only available originally from me, the artist. They are not samples, and they are fully trackable just like the rest of the coins sold.

[+fox-and-the-hound]

After I came up with artwork for my coin, I sent out for quotes to a number of coin companies. Coins and pins emailed me back about a Geocoin reselling selling service that they offer. With this program, they use my design to mint a set amount of coins to sell in their store (250-300 coins). As payment for allowing coinsandpins to use my design, I would get 50-60 coins. I would not have to pay for the cost of minting, but would receive those coins for free because I am the artist of the design. Of those 60 coins, I could choose whatever metals, finishes, colors that I wanted. If I wanted them all in the same finishes/colors that are available to everyone else from the store I could do that, but if I wanted to make each of those 60 coins different in some way I could do that too because they are for me, the artist. And because they are my coins, I can sell them, trade them, keep them...etc., Because they might be different from the coins sold to the general public, they are LE, and they are also AE, because they are only available originally from me, the artist. They are not samples, and they are fully trackable just like the rest of the coins sold.

 

While they are unique and you are the artist, I don't think that qualifies as an AE. As I said before, AEs are special versions of the commercially available coins open to the public. Since yours are a personal coin, they are an LE or XLE dependent on how many you made.

 

That's a very cool idea by the way. It brings to mind some of the hand-poured or sculpted coins. What category would those be?

Edited June 14, 2007 by fox-and-the-hound

[+Renegade Knight]

It's still nothing but a LE to which someone is adding another name....

 

A fair point.

 

Collectors should be the ones defining these terms since ther the ones who have to figure it all out.

[+Mr.Explorer3]

After I came up with artwork for my coin, I sent out for quotes to a number of coin companies. Coins and pins emailed me back about a Geocoin reselling selling service that they offer. With this program, they use my design to mint a set amount of coins to sell in their store (250-300 coins). As payment for allowing coinsandpins to use my design, I would get 50-60 coins. I would not have to pay for the cost of minting, but would receive those coins for free because I am the artist of the design. Of those 60 coins, I could choose whatever metals, finishes, colors that I wanted. If I wanted them all in the same finishes/colors that are available to everyone else from the store I could do that, but if I wanted to make each of those 60 coins different in some way I could do that too because they are for me, the artist. And because they are my coins, I can sell them, trade them, keep them...etc., Because they might be different from the coins sold to the general public, they are LE, and they are also AE, because they are only available originally from me, the artist. They are not samples, and they are fully trackable just like the rest of the coins sold.

 

While they are unique and you are the artist, I don't think that qualifies as an AE. As I said before, AEs are special versions of the commercially available coins open to the public. Since yours are a personal coin, they are an LE or XLE dependent on how many you made.

 

That's a very cool idea by the way. It brings to mind some of the hand-poured or sculpted coins. What category would those be?

 

Coins and Pins is a commercial business and they are selling these coins to the public which in your own definition would qualify the coins the artist received as work done for the use of the image as AE. It was the payment for the art.

[+Renegade Knight]

...So here are the facts:

 

1) An actual artist began using the term first.

 

2) AEs are thanks/gratuity for artwork completed.

 

3) AEs are limited, but are not standard LE which are often available to the public.

 

4) AEs (to my knowledge) are only associated with commercial or publicly sold coins. A personal coin would have LEs or XLEs dependent on numbers produced.

 

********zzzziiiiiiiiip! Ok, put on my flame retardent....let'r rip

 

A good summary.

 

Here is the catch. If you don't know the coins history (to know where the Artist came into it) the AE coin would be nothing more than an LE from a collectors standpoint.

 

That said, with some history and knowing that these LE's were hand picked by the artist and different, then they are worth distinguishing. Some collectors may like to specalized in Fox and The Hound AE's for example.

 

It seems though you have to know it's an AE to be able to tell it from an LE.

[+fox-and-the-hound]

After I came up with artwork for my coin, I sent out for quotes to a number of coin companies. Coins and pins emailed me back about a Geocoin reselling selling service that they offer. With this program, they use my design to mint a set amount of coins to sell in their store (250-300 coins). As payment for allowing coinsandpins to use my design, I would get 50-60 coins. I would not have to pay for the cost of minting, but would receive those coins for free because I am the artist of the design. Of those 60 coins, I could choose whatever metals, finishes, colors that I wanted. If I wanted them all in the same finishes/colors that are available to everyone else from the store I could do that, but if I wanted to make each of those 60 coins different in some way I could do that too because they are for me, the artist. And because they are my coins, I can sell them, trade them, keep them...etc., Because they might be different from the coins sold to the general public, they are LE, and they are also AE, because they are only available originally from me, the artist. They are not samples, and they are fully trackable just like the rest of the coins sold.

 

While they are unique and you are the artist, I don't think that qualifies as an AE. As I said before, AEs are special versions of the commercially available coins open to the public. Since yours are a personal coin, they are an LE or XLE dependent on how many you made.

 

That's a very cool idea by the way. It brings to mind some of the hand-poured or sculpted coins. What category would those be?

 

Coins and Pins is a commercial business and they are selling these coins to the public which in your own definition would qualify the coins the artist received as work done for the use of the image as AE. It was the payment for the art.

 

No... my definition was quite specific. AEs are not personal coins, but commercial coins. Personal Coins would have a LE. If someone decides to sell a personal coin for commercial, it does not change the fact that it is still a personal coin. Commercial coins are made specifically for sale.

[+fox-and-the-hound]

 

A good summary.

 

Here is the catch. If you don't know the coins history (to know where the Artist came into it) the AE coin would be nothing more than an LE from a collectors standpoint.

 

That said, with some history and knowing that these LE's were hand picked by the artist and different, then they are worth distinguishing. Some collectors may like to specalized in Fox and The Hound AE's for example.

 

It seems though you have to know it's an AE to be able to tell it from an LE.

 

That is the catch and unfortunately there will always be something like this to throw a wrench in the spokes of a relatively smooth running wheel. If you're not sure if it's an AE, you will have to look into who designed it to know. Serious collectors seem to know more about my designs than I do sometimes though

[+Landsharkz]

My turn...

 

Watching this discussion has certainly been enlightening. A lot of coin collectors have varying opinions of what they think an AE or AP is so we're glad it's all being discussed and defined. Eartha is bang-on by researching what system of defining art is used by professional artists and galleries, and we concur with fox-and-the-hound's definition of artist's editions for commercial coins. We have one of every coin we've designed or produced engraved with 'sharkz' rather than the tracking number and that keeps us happy. We don't call these AE, but we could for commercial coins.

 

Now I'm going to digress a bit...

Most geocoins are original art turned into a limited run of metal making them not much different from a print on my wall that says 123/200 and sold for $300+. Some geocoins are actually numbered this way. They're much smaller mind you, but no less limited edition art. One is created on some form of paper/canvas and the other is on metal. The artist who drew the original art for the print on my wall often has Artist Proof prints made which he/she can keep, gift, donate or sell. A well known local artist once told me that he goes to the print shop and stands and watches the first 12 or so prints be created to ensure they are perfect. He personally numbers those 1/12 AP to 12/12 AP, signs them and then he leaves and takes them with him. The printer then continues with the run of his limited prints which are sent to the artist's office at a later date for him to number and sign and prepare for his galleries.

 

This maybe off topic slightly but we think that commercial geocoins that are available in an endless supply are closer to being like mass produced prints in shrink wrap at Walmart that sell for $20.00 and they should be priced accordingly. Also, geocoins that are created from clipart or just fancy fonts are loosely called 'original' art and thankfully it's pretty easy to tell them apart when they hit the market. Commercial or personal geocoins which are truly limited edition pieces of original art created on metal and handpainted overseas are priced far too low here. The EBay prices are more in line with their true value as limited edition art.

 

Professional fees for art, like fox-and-the-hound has stated, are much higher than what some people think they should be paying to have original art created for their personal or commercial geocoin. If we charged our usual studio rates ($65-$85CAD per hour) we wouldn't be designing so many coins! We truly enjoy helping people see their vision for their coin come to life and if we only make a few hundred dollars for our hours of time involved then that's ok... we have other clients covering the rest of our mortgage . If the artists who actually spends hours drawing the coin art (in expensive programs like Adobe Illustrator and with up-to-date PMS swatches), etc actually charged coin customers what their studio time is worth we wouldn't see so many gorgeous geocoins floating around in caches and on EBay. Hence, the Limited Edition or Artist Editions are offered to further remunerate the artist who spent hours to create the art. As AG has said, she has the idea, but she pays a professional graphic artist to make it reality. The client who comes to us with the drawing, sketch or idea and wants a limited quantity of their personal coin in a different metal for their own use isn't getting AE coins, they are getting LE, XLE, or XXLE. Even the RE run of coins is limited in some capacity.

 

In summary, If a geocoin is original art turned into metal in a limited run then the industry terms which Eartha 'unearthed' would apply. AE as defined by fox-and-the-hound for commercial coins sounds bang on.

 

Fire away

[+Hula Bum]

It sounds to me like it's just another thing that has morphed in the coin world into a money making venture. If I'm correct, the original intent was not this, and the "founder" did not do this, but like all good things in coins, it is coming to an end. Now AE is being slapped on an ebay sale and such for increased profit. Such is the way of coins.

[+tsunrisebey]

In the big scheme of life, it doesn't really matter if you call it AE/LE/APE We all pretty much know that the AE coin is "different" some how from the RE. It's obvious we all have our own ideas on what we believe an AE is or should be, how much more do we really need to beat this subject into the ground? Who gets to be right?

 

Time to go have some fun...... tsun

[+fox-and-the-hound]

It sounds to me like it's just another thing that has morphed in the coin world into a money making venture. If I'm correct, the original intent was not this, and the "founder" did not do this, but like all good things in coins, it is coming to an end. Now AE is being slapped on an ebay sale and such for increased profit. Such is the way of coins.

 

This is a profoundly negative way to regard something that was done for the reasons I stated above. You can pretty much say anything you want on ebay, but that doesn't change the fact that AEs are not LEs and that there is a profound difference. They are made as a thank you and should be appreciated for that fact. They weren't made with the intent to sell so why do you keep saying this? The fact that a few will be has no bearing on the definition of what an AE is.

 

 

In the big scheme of life, it doesn't really matter if you call it AE/LE/APE We all pretty much know that the AE coin is "different" some how from the RE. It's obvious we all have our own ideas on what we believe an AE is or should be, how much more do we really need to beat this subject into the ground? Who gets to be right?

 

Time to go have some fun...... tsun

 

Everyone is of course entitle to an opinion, but as to who is right... the artists are. They are the ones doing the work, they coined the term (no pun intended) and they are the ones receiving the gracious gift of the AE. Everyone else is just shouting from sidelines.

[+Hula Bum]

But it is the people from the sidelines buying these "AE" coins because they say AE on them, so they really are the ones it makes a difference for.

 

You may have had good intentions, but it's now being used as a marketing scheme, it's a fact, not an opinion.

 

The whole "atrists are the only one who have a say and the only ones who are "right"" is kinda funny, being that it is the artists themselves who have turned your special term into a nice profitable situation. It is also very elitist and snobby. There are lots of people in here who have designed their coins and don't get up on a high horse and act like they're better than everyone else and that only their opinions matter.

[CinemaBoxers]

I dont think F&H meant to sound elitlist or snobby - I think that he was simply using the title as a job description, not as a label of vanity.

 

Its a job - and its how we make money. Just as a term about space might be best left to NASA, or a label on music is best left to the producers, or those in the know - I think it was meant to label a job, and something provided to those who do that job - regardless of what they do with them after the fact.

 

Why not just agree that an Artist edition is a limited 'different' run of coins given to, and available from the Artist only?!

 

Edit: Typo

Edited June 14, 2007 by CinemaBoxers

[+fox-and-the-hound]

But it is the people from the sidelines buying these "AE" coins because they say AE on them, so they really are the ones it makes a difference for.

 

You may have had good intentions, but it's now being used as a marketing scheme, it's a fact, not an opinion.

 

The whole "atrists are the only one who have a say and the only ones who are "right"" is kinda funny, being that it is the artists themselves who have turned your special term into a nice profitable situation. It is also very elitist and snobby. There are lots of people in here who have designed their coins and don't get up on a high horse and act like they're better than everyone else and that only their opinions matter.

 

If I struck a nerve, then I apologize for my abruptness, but I believe that just because some people will say anything to sell a coin for a profit, that should not change the fact the AEs and LEs are not the same. I will say it again that because artists came up with the idea, why should anyone dispute the original intent by slandering it with a few examples? If YOU build anything with a purpose and it's misused, I'm not going to get in your face and tell you that you need to change the name of your creation because I don't like the misuse I see. Defending your good ideals is not being snobby. I'm not on a "high horse" here, but I'm not going to let you or anyone else tell me what I may or may not use to describe something that I in essence invented. Don't take that for a snobby comment either. If I didn't do it, someone else would have very quickly because there are a lot of great people donating a lot of hours to create these coins for all of us and they do deserve some recognition. I'm getting tired of saying it, but since you keep throwing it out there yet again... PERSONAL COINS ARE NOT AEs. Personal coins don't have AEs. They have LEs or XLEs or whatever else you want to call them. I designed my coins and I don't have AEs because they are personal coins. OT: An AE is a special gratuity to an artist for their time and effort in producing a specifically commerical coin. I'm not saying that artists are special or that we deserve special compensation or anything like that. The concept was offered in gratitude. The gratuity was accepted with thanks. The phrase was coined. It is what it is. Don't try and tear down what was in done in kindness. You don't have that right no matter how much you don't like them or what you see being done with them.

[+res2100]

PERSONAL COINS ARE NOT AEs. Personal coins don't have AEs. They have LEs or XLEs or whatever else you want to call them. I designed my coins and I don't have AEs because they are personal coins.

 

Since you mentioned this a few times now, I am a bit confused so I am just trying to understand what you are saying and your reasoning behind it.

 

I guess what I don't understand is why a personal coin can't have an AE version of the coin? What difference does it make if it's personal or commercial or both? If I get someone to do the artwork for a personal coin for me (which I didn't, as I designed ours myself), why can I not create a couple of special AE coins of my personal coin to give to the artist as a token of appreciation and thanks? Just trying to understand what is being said. I do agree though that if I design my own coin, there is no point of having an AE of it.

[+Hula Bum]

I still don't get it, how is it not an LE? It may be a "special" branch of LE, but by definition it is a limited edition, well more of an XLE. None of these labels were needed in the beginning, they didn't come about until coins turned into sales.

I don't remember saying anything about personal coins.... But since you went there, why can't personal coins have AE's? If an artist put time into it, why should they not get the coveted AE coin(s)? Do the designers of personal coins not deserve them?

 

I have done nothing to tear it down, the people selling them have done that. I'm not buying them, so I am contributing in no way to the cheapening of the AE, your anger is directed the wrong way.

[+fox-and-the-hound]

My anger is expressly reserved for the situation where people are attempting to dictate to me the definition of something that I conceived to begin with. I appreciate your clarification though.

 

I will make a clarification on the personal coins part of it. In speaking with other artists in the last hour I concede that a personal coin could have a AE created in gratuity to the designer. I stated early that a personal can have an LE, but it makes no sense that an artist or anyone for that matter would pay themselves a gratuity for making their own coin. I'm not saying they wont make an LE or XLE just for themselves, but an AE is a gratuity to an artist. So I suppose you could ask an artist to design your coin and then make them a special version as a thank you, but it would only be an AE (in my eyes) if it was made expressly for the reason of thanking the artist. If you made 10 special coins and gave any of them to anyone onther than the artist then it's just an LE. If you made 10 special coins and gave them all to the artist then it would be an AE. Does that make more sense? I have never been given an AE for my designs of personal coins, so it never occured to me to think that it might happen.

 

Your idea that an AE is an LE is a rather loose arguement, but I concede that AEs are made in limited number so you could argue it so. It doesn't change the fact that an AE is a coin made specifically for the purpose of gratuity to an independent (by that I mean someone other than who the coin is being designed for) artist for their contribution of time and expertise.

Edited June 14, 2007 by fox-and-the-hound

[+Kealia]

Interesting thoughts in here.

 

So, what if an "artist" designs their own personal coin?

They sell 100 RE, 20 LE and keep 10 in a seperate metal. Are they XLE or Artist Edition? I think this is a matter of opinion, not fact.

 

I will say it again that because artists came up with the idea, why should anyone dispute the original intent by slandering it with a few examples? If YOU build anything with a purpose and it's misused, I'm not going to get in your face and tell you that you need to change the name of your creation because I don't like the misuse I see. Defending your good ideals is not being snobby. I'm not on a "high horse" here, but I'm not going to let you or anyone else tell me what I may or may not use to describe something that I in essence invented.

 

By this logic, does that mean that we can ask Moun10Bike about what is/isn't a geocoin?

I don't think ANYBODY disputes the fact that he created the first one AND coined/created the term.

 

I not deliberately poking holes, but by your logic would that stand to reason as acceptable?

 

Seriously, the intent of the thread was to come to a consenus on definitions to avoid confusion. Not to get into battles about who is an artist, who can claim an Artist Edition as the name of their version of the coin, etc.

 

This one looks like there may never be a consensus - just like what defines a "geocoin".

[+fox-and-the-hound]

Interesting thoughts in here.

 

So, what if an "artist" designs their own personal coin?

They sell 100 RE, 20 LE and keep 10 in a seperate metal. Are they XLE or Artist Edition? I think this is a matter of opinion, not fact.

 

I will say it again that because artists came up with the idea, why should anyone dispute the original intent by slandering it with a few examples? If YOU build anything with a purpose and it's misused, I'm not going to get in your face and tell you that you need to change the name of your creation because I don't like the misuse I see. Defending your good ideals is not being snobby. I'm not on a "high horse" here, but I'm not going to let you or anyone else tell me what I may or may not use to describe something that I in essence invented.

 

By this logic, does that mean that we can ask Moun10Bike about what is/isn't a geocoin?

I don't think ANYBODY disputes the fact that he created the first one AND coined/created the term.

 

I not deliberately poking holes, but by your logic would that stand to reason as acceptable?

 

Seriously, the intent of the thread was to come to a consenus on definitions to avoid confusion. Not to get into battles about who is an artist, who can claim an Artist Edition as the name of their version of the coin, etc.

 

This one looks like there may never be a consensus - just like what defines a "geocoin".

 

It's an XLE. It was not given to the Artist for creating the artwork and yes, Moun10Bike would be the final authority on what is and is not a geocoin. You don't tell Bill Gates what he can call his software no matter how many people copy his technology.

Edited June 14, 2007 by fox-and-the-hound

[+Kealia]

One more thought:

 

Let's not forget that the meaning of words evolve over time. Many words that started off with one meaning, have morphed into something else completely.

 

30 years ago saying somebody looked "gay" meant one thing; today it means another altogether.

I believe that the word "fag" in the UK still refers to a cigarette.

 

Look at my generation (30's now). Growing up we used words like "bad" to mean really cool, awesome, etc.

 

Even racial terms have gone from being simple descriptions (many many years ago) to being considered derogatory today. Words essenatilly take on the meaning of what the majority of people think it means, or beter yet - how they define it.

 

 

NOTE: The words used above are meant to reflect the point I'm trying to make. Please don't take them out of context or look at them as being used to elicit an emotional response.

[+Kealia]

Dup post

Edited June 14, 2007 by kealia

[+Nero]

AE is a term used by a few select folks in the forums. It is simply a non-retail XLE version of the coin.

 

Any non-commercial finish payment coins I've received have always been referred to as XLE since there typically is 20-40 of them. I refrain from calling them Artist Editions simply because it is my design concept. I have a graphic artist bring my idea to life based on my specifications.

I Agree with this post.

 

IMO, and thats what it is MY Opinion.

 

AE is just a term used by a certain few to make there LE coin seem more valuable for sale.

[+fox-and-the-hound]

AE is a term used by a few select folks in the forums. It is simply a non-retail XLE version of the coin.

 

Any non-commercial finish payment coins I've received have always been referred to as XLE since there typically is 20-40 of them. I refrain from calling them Artist Editions simply because it is my design concept. I have a graphic artist bring my idea to life based on my specifications.

I Agree with this post.

 

IMO, and thats what it is MY Opinion.

 

AE is just a term used by a certain few to make there LE coin seem more valuable for sale.

 

You're entitled to your opinion, but stating that an AE is just a term for making a coin seem more valuable for sale is plain slander. You are not making a statement based on fact so please don't state it as so. The phrase was designed to clarify an unusual circumstance of generosity not greed. Saying it is so doesn't make it so, but you are entitled to your opinion.

[+Mr.Explorer3]

All of the geocoins I get are activeted and go into caches so I don't care if it is an AE, LE, XLE, or RE. I wont pay $50 for a coin in a different metal when all else is the same as the $10 version. I buy them for the icon and for others to enjoy. So this discussion seems geared toward collectors.

Who is going to make the fortune off of putting together a geocoin collecting guide book?

[+The Moop Along]

AE is a term used by a few select folks in the forums. It is simply a non-retail XLE version of the coin.

 

Any non-commercial finish payment coins I've received have always been referred to as XLE since there typically is 20-40 of them. I refrain from calling them Artist Editions simply because it is my design concept. I have a graphic artist bring my idea to life based on my specifications.

I Agree with this post.

 

IMO, and thats what it is MY Opinion.

 

AE is just a term used by a certain few to make there LE coin seem more valuable for sale.

 

You're entitled to your opinion, but stating that an AE is just a term for making a coin seem more valuable for sale is plain slander. You are not making a statement based on fact so please don't state it as so. The phrase was designed to clarify an unusual circumstance of generosity not greed. Saying it is so doesn't make it so, but you are entitled to your opinion.

 

I 100% agree with your philosophy F&H But, at the same time, I also agree that some "artists" specifically use AE coins and the term for personal profit explicitly. I'll never disagree with how the term AE was created and "should" be used, and what it means to an artist. Reference my previous post, about your artist editions. I only know a handful of people, myself included, that have ever seen one (besides you and yours of course), and they've certainly never been Ebayed for gain.

[+fox-and-the-hound]

AE is a term used by a few select folks in the forums. It is simply a non-retail XLE version of the coin.

 

Any non-commercial finish payment coins I've received have always been referred to as XLE since there typically is 20-40 of them. I refrain from calling them Artist Editions simply because it is my design concept. I have a graphic artist bring my idea to life based on my specifications.

I Agree with this post.

 

IMO, and thats what it is MY Opinion.

 

AE is just a term used by a certain few to make there LE coin seem more valuable for sale.

 

You're entitled to your opinion, but stating that an AE is just a term for making a coin seem more valuable for sale is plain slander. You are not making a statement based on fact so please don't state it as so. The phrase was designed to clarify an unusual circumstance of generosity not greed. Saying it is so doesn't make it so, but you are entitled to your opinion.

 

I 100% agree with your philosophy F&H But, at the same time, I also agree that some "artists" specifically use AE coins and the term for personal profit explicitly. I'll never disagree with how the term AE was created and "should" be used, and what it means to an artist. Reference my previous post, about your artist editions. I only know a handful of people, myself included, that have ever seen one (besides you and yours of course), and they've certainly never been Ebayed for gain.

 

Thanks Moop The OP asked for what an AE is and that's what I'm trying to clarify. How it's used doesn't make any difference to how it came about. I just don't want something done in the true spirit of genuine thanks to be sullied by a few upset or misinformed people.

 

edit for awful grammar

Edited June 14, 2007 by fox-and-the-hound

[+Nero]

AE is a term used by a few select folks in the forums. It is simply a non-retail XLE version of the coin.

 

Any non-commercial finish payment coins I've received have always been referred to as XLE since there typically is 20-40 of them. I refrain from calling them Artist Editions simply because it is my design concept. I have a graphic artist bring my idea to life based on my specifications.

I Agree with this post.

 

IMO, and thats what it is MY Opinion.

 

AE is just a term used by a certain few to make there LE coin seem more valuable for sale.

 

You're entitled to your opinion, but stating that an AE is just a term for making a coin seem more valuable for sale is plain slander. You are not making a statement based on fact so please don't state it as so. The phrase was designed to clarify an unusual circumstance of generosity not greed. Saying it is so doesn't make it so, but you are entitled to your opinion.

 

Make some Tea and refresh, I knew someone would comment.

 

I stated it was an opinion, I didn't say it was fact.

 

But from MY observations, there are only a few people who call them AE's instead of LE's, and from what i've read in this forum the consensus seems to be its an LE only given to the artist.

 

NOW, let me say B.F.D

 

What's the purpose of having an LE or XLE or XXLE? Because of its perceived Value, there are less of them, so they are more rare and valuable, and the reason for calling it an AE, because its even more rare because it's only available from the Artist.

 

Again, MY Opinion, based on MY observations.

[+The Moop Along]

 

Make some Tea and refresh, I knew someone would comment.

 

**lots of snipping**

 

 

I like that. Make some tea. My poison is Mountain Dew, but then again, that just makes my fingers jumpy, and my spell check smoke

 

Anywho, remember here, that one particular artist here is simply trying to explain his point of view in "coining" the term. (pun intended)

 

So think about this. How many artist edition coins have the "Mackey made it" stamp on them? I don't know the answer to that question, nor do I want to. How many were made in each metal? Dunno. All I know is that if Mr. Mackey were to hand one off to me, put it in my cache, or let me sell one for Breast Cancer research, I'd be delighted. They are his treasures to do with as he pleases, just to make people smile.

 

His quote about a few people spoiling the term may just ring true. I agree there are bones to pick about how AE is used. . . just not in here

[+Nero]

 

Make some Tea and refresh, I knew someone would comment.

 

**lots of snipping**

 

 

I like that. Make some tea. My poison is Mountain Dew, but then again, that just makes my fingers jumpy, and my spell check smoke

 

Anywho, remember here, that one particular artist here is simply trying to explain his point of view in "coining" the term. (pun intended)

 

So think about this. How many artist edition coins have the "Mackey made it" stamp on them? I don't know the answer to that question, nor do I want to. How many were made in each metal? Dunno. All I know is that if Mr. Mackey were to hand one off to me, put it in my cache, or let me sell one for Breast Cancer research, I'd be delighted. They are his treasures to do with as he pleases, just to make people smile.

 

His quote about a few people spoiling the term may just ring true. I agree there are bones to pick about how AE is used. . . just not in here

 

I used to drink a couple of 12 packs of mountain dew a week myself. I've decided to cut out soda, so I drink a lot of tea.

 

I don't know how many of ANY artists editions were made, it doesn't really matter to me, I like coins that appeal to me, regardless of metal quantities made. In fact I don't even care WHO the "artist" was on a coin, branding means nothing to me.

 

no ones opinion will make the stubborn ones change there opinions, or actions.

[+fox-and-the-hound]

Make some Tea and refresh, I knew someone would comment.

 

I stated it was an opinion, I didn't say it was fact.

 

But from MY observations, there are only a few people who call them AE's instead of LE's, and from what i've read in this forum the consensus seems to be its an LE only given to the artist.

 

NOW, let me say B.F.D

 

What's the purpose of having an LE or XLE or XXLE? Because of its perceived Value, there are less of them, so they are more rare and valuable, and the reason for calling it an AE, because its even more rare because it's only available from the Artist.

 

Again, MY Opinion, based on MY observations.

 

Oh, sure push my buttons! What's BFD?

[+tsunrisebey]

I'm curious, in my geocaching for dummies book and in my geocaching handbook that I received when I signed up here, there was no mention that if I sold an AE, LE, or XLE on ebay, that I was tainting the "original intent of the founder." Why is it so wrong for AE's to be sold for profit, charity, or whatever? For those of you who are claiming that an AE is not really much different from an LE, and than turning around and saying that selling an AE is cheapening the coin, seems kind of hypocritical. I've seen these same people selling their "LE" coins (that weren't made available to the public) on ebay. Guess those were cheapened too?

 

Any coins that I receive as "payment" from a company, I will continue to call AE (as long as they are something unique to only me). I will continue to give-away most of them through contests and "thank-you's" like I have always done and I will reserve some for sales on ebay and I won't even feel guilty about it. I haven't sold much for coins on ebay but the couple that I have, all $$$ has gone to the Humane Society and BBBS, I ask you how I cheapened my AE coins because of that? If using the term AE, LE or XLE gets me more $$$ for helping animals and kids, by golly, I'll use that tactic.

 

AE: Artist Edition, coins specifically made for the artist and available only through them. (As a recipient of AE coins, I personally have no problem with them being called LE but that is just me). I think most (key word is most) people know what the meaning behind AE is (even if technically undefined), if I have a contest or sell my coin and say it is an AE version, many people know I'm giving away or selling the coin I was given as the artist for designing that coin, and they know it is different from any other version that was commercially made available.

 

tsun

Edited June 14, 2007 by tsunrisebey

[+MustangJoni]

I don't know what the big fuss is about. I've worked with several artist on coins. Several of them were paid cash, and a couple of them were paid in coins. When we pay an artist in coins, it takes no extra money to mint their coins to their specifications. I'm glad to do it for them.

 

These artists are very talented, and I've enjoyed so much working with each of them.

 

See, I don't see why it is okay to pay an artist in cash and that doesn't cheapen the coin, but if you pay them in coins, and they sell the coins for cash, why this cheapens the coin? To me it is just a different payment method for work done.

[+res2100]

I asked the same question a couple months ago in these forums about what an artist edition coin was, as the term seemed very new at the time, and honestly it just seemed like a marketing ploy on Ebay, since that is where it was always menioned...didn't really see much if any mention of it in the forums. That being said, I think things are definitely a bit clearer than when this thread started, and I know I definitely haven't come to a solid conclusion as to what an Artist Edition coin is, and my opinion has changed somewhat from yesterday. My mind is still open based on what is being said in this thread, and I think there is still room to come to somewhat of a concencous, even though some people may have strong opinions one way or another. In the end however, it is just a name given to a special edition of a coin.

 

Reading all these posts I do think it is wrong to say that the artists are the ones who define what an AE coin is, but instead it really is the people making the coin. As an example, if I make a coin and I have someone else make the artwork for it, it is I who decides if I want to make an Artist Edition coin and it is I that chooses how many to make and give to the artist. And I give it to the artist not as a form/lieu of payment (APE), but as a form of thanks and appreciation for the work they made (AE), and I would create a very limited amount of the AE coins, anywhere from 1 to perhaps up 5 at most. Making it a low quantity keeps the coin special, and really making just 1 is the most special, for them to have something unique. Making 20 or 30 or even 50 coins as payment for the artist's work (because the artist choose to get coins in payment), could technically be consider an Artist Edition (AE) coin, but the specialness in my opinion is gone since there are just way too many...it would be more like an Artist Payment Edition (APE) and in that case, they would probably do as they like with them, whether it be selling, giving away, keeping or placing in caches.

 

If it was me designing the artwork for someone else's coin, I would rather have 1 AE coin than 20-50 APE coins. Seeing my artwork on a coin or anything for that matter is more valuable to me than receiving payment for my work. I can't speak for all geocoin artists, but I know there are others who feel the same way as I do. They aren't in it for the money.

 

Based on what has been said so far, we could also break the whole edition thing down into categories:

RE - Regular Edition

LE - Limited Edition

XLE - eXreme Limited Edition

XXLE - eXtra eXtreme Limited Edition

SE - Special Edition (could be consider LE, but not necessarily as with the 1701eh Memorial Ontario only version coins...215 made based totally on preorders only...not really LE)

--AE (Subset SE) - Artist Edition

----APE (Subset of AE/SE) - Artist Payment Edition

SA/PR (SAMPLE/PROOF) - Preproduction coins (although these could be split into 2 individual categories)

ERR - Error coin - Some kind of unplanned error with some coins of the final product, such as missing/wrong paint)

 

..and as I started out saying, people can basically call their editions whatever they want and I may call or define something differently than someone else, but I think the above is atleast a pretty fair breakdown and definitions of various editions, including what a true AE is (or might be).

[CinemaBoxers]

Its not fair to say an artist is "In it for the money" however - some of us are artists - thats ALL we do. Professionally.

 

For us, I see nothing wrong with taking our AE coins as payment, or, selling these coins - After all, it IS for work done.

 

While this isnt the topic, to me at least, I love Artist Editions, and I love trading for other AE's - and, I specifically DO pay attention to artists, as I have a few favorites - Mr Mackey included! MMKay? Sorry Chris.. had to do it!

 

I just hate thinking of the idea of an AE dismissed as a 'regular' thing - often, we get our personal favorite metals, or different features, so the coins truly are unique, limited, and special.

 

I could care less who trades em, sells em, or gives em away - its the artists choice. If sales are done, that artist has the right to make money.

If they trade them - very cool - Ive gotten some excellent trades for AE's. And... why not - give em away for prizes! Thats how I got my first Mackey AE!

 

Interesting topic, and I agree with F&H on this one 100%

[+pghlooking]

AE is a term used by a few select folks in the forums. It is simply a non-retail XLE version of the coin.

 

Any non-commercial finish payment coins I've received have always been referred to as XLE since there typically is 20-40 of them. I refrain from calling them Artist Editions simply because it is my design concept. I have a graphic artist bring my idea to life based on my specifications.

I Agree with this post.

 

IMO, and thats what it is MY Opinion.

 

AE is just a term used by a certain few to make there LE coin seem more valuable for sale.

 

You're entitled to your opinion, but stating that an AE is just a term for making a coin seem more valuable for sale is plain slander. You are not making a statement based on fact so please don't state it as so. The phrase was designed to clarify an unusual circumstance of generosity not greed. Saying it is so doesn't make it so, but you are entitled to your opinion.

 

I 100% agree with your philosophy F&H But, at the same time, I also agree that some "artists" specifically use AE coins and the term for personal profit explicitly. I'll never disagree with how the term AE was created and "should" be used, and what it means to an artist. Reference my previous post, about your artist editions. I only know a handful of people, myself included, that have ever seen one (besides you and yours of course), and they've certainly never been Ebayed for gain.

 

Thanks Moop The OP asked for what an AE is and that's what I'm trying to clarify. How it's used doesn't make any difference to how it came about. I just don't want something done in the true spirit of genuine thanks to be sullied by a few upset or misinformed people.

 

edit for awful grammar

Sadly what started out as a way to say thanks to the artist has devolved into being treated as a payment plan instead. I think there are AE coins out there. I do not debate this. I just think too many people are trying to make claims that this coin or that one is anAE coin so they can get multiple trades for one or more money for one. As you said yourself, these coins were a way to say thanks. I don't recall you ever saying these were used for or in l exchange for payment.

 

I guess gridlox got an AE GeoJelly then. He designed them and I paid for 10 coins unknowing to him in his name as a way to say thanks to him.

[+pghlooking]

AE is a term used by a few select folks in the forums. It is simply a non-retail XLE version of the coin.

 

Any non-commercial finish payment coins I've received have always been referred to as XLE since there typically is 20-40 of them. I refrain from calling them Artist Editions simply because it is my design concept. I have a graphic artist bring my idea to life based on my specifications.

I Agree with this post.

 

IMO, and thats what it is MY Opinion.

 

AE is just a term used by a certain few to make there LE coin seem more valuable for sale.

 

You're entitled to your opinion, but stating that an AE is just a term for making a coin seem more valuable for sale is plain slander. You are not making a statement based on fact so please don't state it as so. The phrase was designed to clarify an unusual circumstance of generosity not greed. Saying it is so doesn't make it so, but you are entitled to your opinion.

 

I 100% agree with your philosophy F&H But, at the same time, I also agree that some "artists" specifically use AE coins and the term for personal profit explicitly. I'll never disagree with how the term AE was created and "should" be used, and what it means to an artist. Reference my previous post, about your artist editions. I only know a handful of people, myself included, that have ever seen one (besides you and yours of course), and they've certainly never been Ebayed for gain.

 

Thanks Moop The OP asked for what an AE is and that's what I'm trying to clarify. How it's used doesn't make any difference to how it came about. I just don't want something done in the true spirit of genuine thanks to be sullied by a few upset or misinformed people.

 

edit for awful grammar

Sadly what started out as a way to say thanks to the artist has devolved into being treated as a payment plan instead. I think there are AE coins out there. I do not debate this. I just think too many people are trying to make claims that this coin or that one is anAE coin so they can get multiple trades for one or more money for one. As you said yourself, these coins were a way to say thanks. I don't recall you ever saying these were used for or in l exchange for payment.

 

I guess gridlox got an AE GeoJelly then. He designed them and I paid for 10 coins unknowing to him in his name as a way to say thanks to him.

[CinemaBoxers]

Well.. an artist SHOULD be paid, or thanked at the very least.

 

If someone does WORK on a coin, they deserve payment - an AE is an absolutely valid method of payment, and is usually beneficial to both the person being paid, and the person making the, well.. payment.

 

What the coin is used for, or given for has little to do with the edition name.

 

And.. Ill play - it IS a limited edition in a sense, just one reserved for the artist! Its the Artist Edition - LOL

 

Wow.. alot of words for such a wee little edition of coins!

[+WWC-World's Worst Cacher]

Been reading this and am honestly kind of amazed about how easily this has boiled so much blood.

 

Pretty much because I am afraid of these kind of disputes I have never done an artist edition. I frequently do LE's where the artist will get a significant portion of those coins, but never all.

 

However, right or wrong I suspect that the following is generally true in the geocoin world.

 

1. Artist Editions are special / different coins that are initially controlled exclusively by the artist.

2. They are usually (maybe always) given to the artist in payment for creating the art for a coin.

3. Artists like to get Artist Editions for at least 3 reasons 1. The artist likes the particular variant better than the other versions; 2. The coin has more perceived value for trade; 3. The coin has more perceived value for sale.

4. Artist Editions are not typically (or maybe ever) sold in the same fashion that the other editions are sold.

5. The Artist Edition is a type of limited run versions.

6. As a type of limited edition coin, there is an implied understanding that the number of coins made, relative to the total minting of a design is small.

 

Regardless of the specifics the most important issue is full disclosure. If an artist or anyone for that matter puts up a coin for sale, auction site, forums or some other venue, there should be full disclosure. Meaning:

 

A. There are no limited to the # of coins made;

B. There are only X number made in this metal finish at that is all that will ever be made.

C. So far there have been only X number made but we reserve the right to make more.

 

Then when someone else obtains that coin, by whatever means, they know what they are getting into.

 

My Thoughts

[+Mr.Explorer3]

Well.. an artist SHOULD be paid, or thanked at the very least.

 

If someone does WORK on a coin, they deserve payment - an AE is an absolutely valid method of payment, and is usually beneficial to both the person being paid, and the person making the, well.. payment.

 

What the coin is used for, or given for has little to do with the edition name.

 

And.. Ill play - it IS a limited edition in a sense, just one reserved for the artist! Its the Artist Edition - LOL

 

Wow.. alot of words for such a wee little edition of coins!

 

I think you said it. Alot of words for a wee little edition of coins. I think the term wee should mean 5 or less.

Wee=AE

[CinemaBoxers]

I think you said it. Alot of words for a wee little edition of coins. I think the term wee should mean 5 or less.

Wee=AE

 

Well, this I dont agree with - I think its up to the artist to set the edition from the number of coins they are paid with. If they are paid 40 coins, its up to the artist to decide the number of special coins they want. EVEN IF they took 40, its still a pretty small edition of that particular finish. (Although, I think most split these up, AE, reg editions, etc..)