Using "Survey Marking Tape" Ruins The Hunt!

[skyhawk2]

The last two or three trecks I have been on in the Shingle Springs Ca. area, (95682) have been marked (quite well I might add), with pink or blue survey tape. On bushes, on trees, and on brush, all pointing a direct trail to the find. The excitement and fun of doing GPS geocaching, as far as I am concerned, is to see if you can find it using only a GPS and not a marked streetmap leading directly to the find. Please, for all the fun, I would ask all of us to not mark the trail. Leave the excitement to following the GPS trail, not the colorful ribbon trail.

 

Thanks in advance,

Skyhawk2

[+cache_test_dummies]

I've never heard of this. I have found multi caches where survey tape was used to mark waypoints, but never heard of anyone marking a trail right up to the cache this way.

 

Do you believe the survey tape trail was created by the cache owner(s), or by other geocachers? Or is it possible that the survey tape was placed along the trail for purposes completely unrelated to geocaching?

[+Wayfinders]

Was it just survey tape, or did you see survey points in the ground along the way? A surveyor will use an existing trail or clearing if possible, but it's not always the case tracing a boundary.

[+briansnat]

It's rare, but I've heard of it. Survey tape, sometimes arrows on the ground made of sticks or rocks. It's usually well meaning geocachers, but do they think that they could find it and the rest of us are too stupid to?

Edited April 22, 2007 by briansnat

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

I've never heard of this. I have found multi caches where survey tape was used to mark waypoints, but never heard of anyone marking a trail right up to the cache this way.

 

Do you believe the survey tape trail was created by the cache owner(s), or by other geocachers? Or is it possible that the survey tape was placed along the trail for purposes completely unrelated to geocaching?

I lean toward the latter hypothesis (i.e., unrelated to caching), as I sometimes find such marking tape on trails around here, but it was never left by geocachers, and rather, it was always left by one of the following:

• organizers of dirt bike events to mark a race/competition course
  
• local trail clubs markng a very poorly-marked trail for trail maintenance purposes
  
• college students hired as summer employees by the state park to beef up long-lost and long-faded property boundary markers
  
• space aliens trying to mark the route back to their spacecraft after visiting our house (we live in the wilderness...)
  

Edited April 22, 2007 by Vinny & Sue Team

[+Confucius' Cat]

the survey tape is probably from the maintenance people marking a new trail. I seruiosly doubt that the cache owner did it.

 

Something else in the OP bothers me though. This appears to be a newbie issue. (I apologise if you are a veteran cacher. If so, this post is addressed to whatever newbies might read it.)

 

The excitement and fun of doing GPS geocaching, as far as I am concerned, is to see if you can find it using only a GPS and not a marked streetmap leading directly to the find.

 

I think your post indicates a misunderstanding of the purpose of the GPSr in the game.

 

The GPSr is used to precisely locate the cache, not to find the best way in to the cache location.

 

Generally following the "beeline" to a cache is not the best way for several reasons.

 

Unnecessary "bushwhacking" (the practice of traveling off-trail through the weeds etc.) tends to cause unnecessary environmental disruption (not necessarily "damage" since the disruption will not be permanent in most cases).

 

Leaving the marked trail is unlawful in a lot of locations.

 

Bushwhacking is generally a lot more physically demanding than using an established trail.

 

Most caches are placed by the owner walking the trail to a point very close to where the cache is placed. In this hobby, you soon learn to stay on the trail even though it appears to be going in the wrong direction- oftentimes it circles back around to within a few feet of the cache. This is usually learned after a grueling bushwhack and finding the cache, thence stumbling on the trail a few feet away.

 

The survey tape could also have been placed to guide cachers in a path that will not cause environmental "damage". If you really want an answer, you should ask the land manager. I doubt the tape is there without hisher knowledge.

[vagabond]

The last two or three trecks I have been on in the Shingle Springs Ca. area, (95682) have been marked (quite well I might add), with pink or blue survey tape. On bushes, on trees, and on brush, all pointing a direct trail to the find. The excitement and fun of doing GPS geocaching, as far as I am concerned, is to see if you can find it using only a GPS and not a marked streetmap leading directly to the find. Please, for all the fun, I would ask all of us to not mark the trail. Leave the excitement to following the GPS trail, not the colorful ribbon trail.

 

Thanks in advance,

Skyhawk2

 

maybe the cacher that found those same 3 caches before you did, They're a new cacher

[skyhawk2]

I just received a sort of "be carful what you post" message and so I have been taught a lesson as to what I should and should not talk about on the forum. With that said, however, I am certain that these two were for the sake of directing to the cache. They were haphazardly placed along the route to the cache, (as if walking the route), starting at the beginning and ending at a close proxcimity to the destination. Both were placed in an unorganized way, (not as a survey route).

I have a feeling that it was placed by someone new to caching that was not intending to discredit or disrupt the geocaching, but with an overzellous excitment as they themselves hunted the treasure and wanted everyone else to find it also.

[+FamilyDNA]

Maybe they just wanted to be sure they found the way back to the car (breadcrumbs).

[skyhawk2]

OK, it looks like breadcrumbs to me also. Hopefully they found their way back to the car and this should be the end of it.

 

Sorry to have opened up this can of worms, but it just sort of worried me that this happens all the time. I see now that it appears to be just an isolated incident so we can close this issue.

 

R......

[+Confucius' Cat]

I have to admit I have never heard of anyone doing this sort of thing before. You seem to be very certain it was not legitimate survey marks.

 

Perhaps it was a previous cacher laying "bread crumbs" to find their way back out, fearing they might get lost?

 

This is a common practice in caving.

 

It would seem though that they would have pulled them as they left. (also a REQUIRED practice in caving)

 

I see the highest rating of 2.5 terrain. That would not seem like a trail particularly prone to getting lost upon.

 

I'll bet you won't encounter this again in a hundred years unless it is someone in your area that makes a habit of it.

[+PJPeters]

Perhaps it was a previous cacher laying "bread crumbs" to find their way back out, fearing they might get lost?

I'm thinking/hoping that a cacher would have the sense, if they get lost, to use their GPSr to retrace their steps. If they're afraid of losing their way out, they should be marking a waypoint at their car. Faster, and more reliable; unless they are afraid the batteries may die before they get back. In which case, either replace them before they leave, or take a spare set with them.

 

Just my two cents.

[+Confucius' Cat]

i tend to get loster when I try to backtrack a route on my GPS. I think its the error thing and the response time. Pretty much any automatic routing I have ever used has had "quirks". Like my Delorme will tell me to get off the main road, go down a one-lane gravel road with major potholes, fjord a creek, then get back on the main road 2 miles away from where I left it.

 

But "mark your car" and "carry spare batteries" is darn good newbie advice.

 

You can always bushwhack back to the car if worse comes to worst as long as you have a car waypoint. But staying on the marked trails is best (if there are any).

 

Putting out semi-permanent markers of any kind as "breadcrumbs" is at best environmentally irresponsible and I agree it would certainly spoil the hunt if they led right to the cache. Not to mention increasing the chances of muggling.

 

Part of the "adventure" (more so in caving but somewhat applicable in caching) is the "going where no man has gone before" mystique, which obviously is a myth, but nonetheless part of the fun when imagination allows it. This mystique is quickly spoiled by a well marked trail or by trash left by others.

[+rdaines]

I'm bothered by people (cachers) that leave trash at the cache site, candy wrappers, pieces of paper from spiral notebooks, parts of broken toys or een whole trinkets that no longer fit in the cache. Talk about a location give-away. Another thing, why do I find so many woodland caches with animal skulls within 1o to 20 feet of the cache?

[+KoosKoos]

Another thing, why do I find so many woodland caches with animal skulls within 1o to 20 feet of the cache?

 

Maybe the animals keep thinking there will be food in those boxes in the woods...so they wait and wait and wait....not being able to read the guidelines...until they finally expire?

[cfauld]

Another thing, why do I find so many woodland caches with animal skulls within 1o to 20 feet of the cache?

 

AcK! I would start to get paranoid if I kept finding skulls near caches. That would Freak me out!

[bogleman]

I've got a multi that I have used the "pink tape" to HELP folks navigate through a couple of difficult steps. I've gone through the area in the summer and winter; the area is like night and day. Summertime it is like a jungle with the overgrowth taller than me, in the winter everything is barren.

 

By no means do I consider the use to the tape as a dead spoiler nor trash. I know where I put the tape and when I decide to remove the cache the tape comes down, just like fire tacks for a night cache.

Edited April 22, 2007 by bogleman

[skyhawk2]

One more reply will do it for me.

The route was an old firebreak that was made when a fire went through the area in the 70's, through the manzanita and grease brush, and the route is quite wide. (you could not get lost). You can see the route to the top of the ridge with no problem. I believe someone just had tape and wanted to use it. It was placed probably every 20 - 50 feet, no survey stakes as used when chaining through brush to find corner and section points, (althought lazer is used now).

Lastly, I do believe it was an isolated incident (I take my granddaughters with me and they would probably like to do something like this), and I am not worried about it happening again.

[+Miragee]

The only time I saw tape marking a trail to a cache was after I did the "Green Ribbons to Bell Bluff" cache to lead cachers to the elusive trail to "Bell Bluff - Alpine's Mini-El Capitan."

 

In that case, the "ribbons" were already there, and even with them, the trail is very, very hard to follow . . .

[+BlueDeuce]

I've never heard of this. I have found multi caches where survey tape was used to mark waypoints, but never heard of anyone marking a trail right up to the cache this way.

 

Do you believe the survey tape trail was created by the cache owner(s), or by other geocachers? Or is it possible that the survey tape was placed along the trail for purposes completely unrelated to geocaching?

I lean toward the latter hypothesis (i.e., unrelated to caching), as I sometimes find such marking tape on trails around here, but it was never left by geocachers, and rather, it was always left by one of the following:

• organizers of dirt bike events to mark a race/competition course
  
• local trail clubs markng a very poorly-marked trail for trail maintenance purposes
  
• college students hired as summer employees by the state park to beef up long-lost and long-faded property boundary markers
  
• space aliens trying to mark the route back to their spacecraft after visiting our house (we live in the wilderness...)
  

 

Cross-country skiers.

 

usually their markers look like this but perhaps they didn't want to harm any trees.

 

Edited April 22, 2007 by BlueDeuce

[+Prime Suspect]

The last two or three trecks I have been on in the Shingle Springs Ca. area, (95682) have been marked (quite well I might add), with pink or blue survey tape. On bushes, on trees, and on brush, all pointing a direct trail to the find. The excitement and fun of doing GPS geocaching, as far as I am concerned, is to see if you can find it using only a GPS and not a marked streetmap leading directly to the find. Please, for all the fun, I would ask all of us to not mark the trail. Leave the excitement to following the GPS trail, not the colorful ribbon trail.

 

Thanks in advance,

Skyhawk2

Samual Farm Park, here in Dallas, has a number of trails marked in this manner. It's left over from a mtn bike event held there a few years ago.

[+LeonW]

Has nobody noticed Skyhawk2 comment about his posting

 

I just received a sort of "be carful what you post" message and so I have been taught a lesson as to what I should and should not talk about on the forum.

 

Why should he have recieved such a message and by whom?

 

As a newbie I would be very much offended, and I might just decide to distance myself from such "civilized people." Don't you guys live in the land of the free?

[Neos2]

I noticed that, but didn't see anything in the forum post that seemed to warrent that kind of warning. I was a bit concerned about his cache logs though--they mention his group removed the tape from the trail.

 

I wouldn't have removed the tape without making some inquiries first, if I didn't know why they were there. As others have mentioned, the tape could have been put there for a specific purpose that had nothing to do with geocaching-- a cross-country race, or by local Biology students preparing to identify certain plants/trees along the trail, etc.

 

In the same situation, I would have emailed the cache owner and the last couple of visitors to the cache to see if they knew why the tape was there--especially since no one else mentions the tape in their logs. If none of them knew anything, I'd assume the tape had nothing to do with geocaching, and leave it at that. If one of the other cachers said they left it there to help others, I'd politely let them know that isn't done, and either tell the cache owner or go back out and remove the tape at that point.

[+tozainamboku]

Something else in the OP bothers me though. This appears to be a newbie issue. (I apologise if you are a veteran cacher. If so, this post is addressed to whatever newbies might read it.)

 

The excitement and fun of doing GPS geocaching, as far as I am concerned, is to see if you can find it using only a GPS and not a marked streetmap leading directly to the find.

 

I think your post indicates a misunderstanding of the purpose of the GPSr in the game.

 

The GPSr is used to precisely locate the cache, not to find the best way in to the cache location.

 

Generally following the "beeline" to a cache is not the best way for several reasons.

 

Unnecessary "bushwhacking" (the practice of traveling off-trail through the weeds etc.) tends to cause unnecessary environmental disruption (not necessarily "damage" since the disruption will not be permanent in most cases).

I disagree. Part of geocaching is finding your way to the cache. That should mean using maps and trail markings in addition to the arrow on your GPSr. Confucius' Cat is right that following a beeline to the cache is not the best way. However, I enjoy the challenge of trying to figure out which way to go at a trail junction based on the direction and distance to the cache shown on my GPS. Sometimes I've guessed wrong and had to backtrack a considerable distance. I have done a few caches where the cache owner has mentioned following survey tape tied to bushes to follow the trail. I believe that in every case the tape predated the cache. In every case the tape was used to mark the a cross-country route that would be difficult to follow otherwise.

 

Maybe they just wanted to be sure they found the way back to the car (breadcrumbs).

Seems to me that track function on your GPS would be better than leaving tape tied to trees. For that matter, if it was geocachers leaving the tape, they could've just as easily marked a few waypoints and posted the route using the additional waypoint feature on the cache page. There is no real good reason for a geocacher to leave anything behind except the cache. Edited April 22, 2007 by tozainamboku

[+Morgan's Marauders]

Another thing, why do I find so many woodland caches with animal skulls within 1o to 20 feet of the cache?

 

Maybe the animals keep thinking there will be food in those boxes in the woods...so they wait and wait and wait....not being able to read the guidelines...until they finally expire?

 

[+GeeOCachers]

 

Lastly, I do believe it was an isolated incident (I take my granddaughters with me and they would probably like to do something like this), and I am not worried about it happening again.

 

Good thing you are on the case.

 

If someone wants to put out coloured tape on a tree as part of a cache, who are YOU to say they can't? Sorry, but bullying people into what you define is "proper" in your cache world isn't what anyone should be doing.

 

It's been said many times.. if you don't enjoy the cache, don't do that one. Walk away and go do another cache. If you finish the cache, they why complain?

[+FamilyDNA]

Maybe they just wanted to be sure they found the way back to the car (breadcrumbs).

Seems to me that track function on your GPS would be better than leaving tape tied to trees. For that matter, if it was geocachers leaving the tape, they could've just as easily marked a few waypoints and posted the route using the additional waypoint feature on the cache page. There is no real good reason for a geocacher to leave anything behind except the cache.

I never said tape for breadcrumbs was a good reason, just a possible reason. The OP was sure someone was trying to lead the way to the cache for others. I was just pointing out another possibility.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I know for a fact that ribbons leading the way to a cache is not common, and am fairly certain that it never will be.

 

On the other hand I can't see this is much different than a night cache where you follow reflectors to a cache.

[dsandbro]

Is the specific area you saw the flags forested?

 

According to the reference sheet in front of me the forest activity flagging color code for that area is:

 

Blue -- project area boundary

 

Pink: Skid trail or tractor route (access route to the proposed project?).

 

Property lines are red.

 

It could be the landowner/manager laying out some work to be done on the land, totally unrelated to geocaching. Just by coincidence the flag line went by the cache.

[+Confucius' Cat]

Has nobody noticed Skyhawk2 comment about his posting

 

I just received a sort of "be carful what you post" message and so I have been taught a lesson as to what I should and should not talk about on the forum.

 

Why should he have recieved such a message and by whom?

 

As a newbie I would be very much offended, and I might just decide to distance myself from such "civilized people." Don't you guys live in the land of the free?

I wrote to him regarding something I read in a cache log. My warning is very generic: be careful what you post, many people read them.

Sometimes posts can be interpreted as confession to criminal activity.

 

Think about all the posts you have seen saying "I was in the park after closing", "I ignored the signs and went on in", I was FTF in the graveyard at 02:00", "I ______(Insert any potentially troublesome act here) and I want it publicly known that i did it"

 

Now THINK about the consequences if what you just posted that you did is read by a zealot- like the "cemetery police" in SC for instance, or the land owner in question where you admitted trespass or being in the park after closing, and decide for me, "Do I want to get in a legal hassle where I might go to jail, get sued, or have to hire an attorney to avoid these outcomes?"

 

Sorry I offended YOU!

[skyhawk2]

I think this has kind of gotten out of hand for one of my first posts. WOW.....

I was just trying to see if this was a common occurance or not. Reponses seemed to hvae excalated to a little more than a sounding block for all that want to air their opinons as to what they think has happened. As stated I know about surveying, (my borther-in-law) is a top notch California surveyor and has taught me many things about surveying. These markers were by someone heading directly to the cache, and I was just asking if this was normal, (because I am a newbe). I received a notice when I emailed the owner of one of the sites (I think he was the owner), and all that he did was inform me about a situation that he had with a bear trap and the legal turmoil that he had to go through, and just ADVISED me to be aware of ramifications that can result in comments made on the forum. By no means was he threatening or intimidating. As to chaining and survey marks in the national forests, I am an avid bow hunter and have been hunting for 40+ years or so all over the High Sierras and know pretty much what kinds of markers are used there. I have used a GPS to keep from getting lost for quite a number of years and therefore know landmarks and locations to the point that I feel very confident while up there. This all said, I think that we have beaten this issue to the point that now all we seem to be doing is just nitpicking what each GPSr writes.

[Clan Riffster]

I'd say go with your gut. You've got the wilderness experience, and you are, (as far as I know), the only person in this thread that saw the markers. Your initial instincts might be dead on. (or it could be the space alien thing)

[+LeonW]

Confucius' Cat

 

I based my comment on the original post on the forum, I did not investigate the OP's cache log and thus could not think such a forum posting could warrent a slap on the wrist. Your advice to the OP is commendable taken into account what he may have said in his cache log ( which I am not going to read ) but sort of gotten an idea of, from other forum postings.

 

As such I am not offended, for good advice is always good advice! To be always careful is a principal that I live by, for in South Africa death lurks in the darkness always and quite often in broad daylight. We hide in our homes from the evil that should be behind prison bars! Geocaching is something you have to be careful about, especially with children in hand. If you don't believe me just check the travel advisories for South Africa.

 

Thanks for your explanation.

 

LeonW

[+scotte]

skyhawk2, I live (and cache) in the same area as you, and I have yet to come across this, so I guess it's an isolated problem...

Edited April 23, 2007 by scotte

[+GEO JEM'S Family]

" tie a yellow ribbon on the old oak tree..."

Edited April 23, 2007 by GEO JEM'S Family

[+briansnat]

I wouldn't have removed the tape without making some inquiries first, if I didn't know why they were there. As others have mentioned, the tape could have been put there for a specific purpose that had nothing to do with geocaching-- a cross-country race, or by local Biology students preparing to identify certain plants/trees along the trail, etc.

 

That is true to a point. In my spare time I'm involved with building and relocating hiking trails and the first thing we do is flag the future route with tape. However the chances are pretty slim that the flags will lead directly to a cache and end. In most instances they will lead to another hiking trail.

 

If I were to see this more once in the same area, I think that it would be a reasonable guess that someone is flagging a route to the cache.

[+showgirl]

I'm involved in a sport where survery tape is a nessessity (long distance horse back riding). Some events place it within a few days before the event and remove it a few days later. Although this was probably not the case with the cache in the orginal post, I know of a few local cahes where this would occur (my father and I placed one alongside a trail I mark for one of these events). If somone removed the markings thinking they gave away the cache location, there'd be some really irritated lost riders! I've been there myself, having been very lost, very tired and very injured because a hiker removed just one critical turn marker. Marking trail for a competition (whether horsback, dirt bike, etc) requires flagging where it will be seen by the competitor. This often means it is not consistantly placed, we pick branches that will be easily seen form horse back. From a hikers perspective, it may look random.

So, please never assume the purpose of survey tape. It is probably there for a reason, and removing even a single may cause somone harm.

[skyhawk2]

You are absolutly correct Showgirl, these were placed for a reason. Well I can tell you the reason. It was spacifically used to direct to the cache. These flags were placed almost the size of my larger horse, which is 16 1/2 hands high, (sort of like the reflectors on a freeway maybe ), so I am sure that people could not get lost. If they were marked as in an event, they would be marking just critical turn points or dangerous areas.

[+wimseyguy]

I think the cache owner put the survey tape out himself for the Mr. Obvious puzzle cache, but I cannot be 100% sure.

 

I've seen survey tape used on 2-3 other caches, but not as a common practice.

[+sbell111]

I know of a few cache owners who flag their cache site. It greatly reduces the difficulty, but it's their cache.

[+showgirl]

[q If they were marked as in an event, they would be marking just critical turn points or dangerous areas.

 

Actually, if it was an event, there would be a LOT of ribbons. No decent event I've ever been to marked only turns and danger, these events use "confidence markers" which means you'll find ribbons often, even with no obvious turns because competitors need to know they have not missed a turn somewhere (otherwise, it could be miles before they come to another turn and realize the mistake). It sounds like in the case of the cache you describe, the ribbons may have been marking the cache, but please don't assume that competitions mark only turns and danger spots, because they don't.

[+Totem Clan]

I purposelly placed my two newest caches with survey tape marking the way to them.

 

 

Well sorta.

 

They are both just off a new trail we just cut in the park. We're hoping the caches will draw attention to the new trail and increase its use.

 

But hey there is still survey tape the marks the wat down the trail.

[+Team GeoBlast]

The last two or three trecks I have been on in the Shingle Springs Ca. area, (95682) have been marked (quite well I might add), with pink or blue survey tape. On bushes, on trees, and on brush, all pointing a direct trail to the find. The excitement and fun of doing GPS geocaching, as far as I am concerned, is to see if you can find it using only a GPS and not a marked streetmap leading directly to the find. Please, for all the fun, I would ask all of us to not mark the trail. Leave the excitement to following the GPS trail, not the colorful ribbon trail.

 

Thanks in advance,

Skyhawk2

 

I saw a T-shirt once that said "The Pink Ribbon Fairy Lies"

[+Knight2000]

Not sure if this is the same thing or not but within the last week we did a cache that had a pink flag within 1 foot of it. It was about 25 feet off of the trail between the paved trail and a river.

 

I dont know if it matters or not but it was in a park system that has banned geocaches from their parks/trails. The flag only caught my attention after we found the cache.