Wanted: 'Serial Muggler' in Midwest!

November 10, 2006

Here is a little story some of you may be familar with....

Over the last 1 1/2 years, caches around Wisconsin have been disappearing! Now this really isn't out of place, espcially if the cache is not well hidden and is placed in a public area that is poorly chosen. But caches that have come up missing are anything from micro's to ammo cans, and even large tupperware type tub's. Why do we know it's just not a cowincidence?!

At all locations where these caches have come up missing, a standard sized envelope was left in a freezer bag, inside a letter reads......

----------------------------------------------------------------

YOU HAVE BEEN MUGGLED

TheMuggler :blink:

#0014

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- A particular hard hit area has been the Green Bay, WI area ... We believe the suspect muggler lives in this region .....

- We have had reports of 'TheMuggler' striking in Minnesota, Illinois, and Iowa and seen his numbers via his notes spike to " #0104 " 104 caches this person just steals and leaves a sort of note laughing at the geocaching community.

- In 2 instances 'TheMuggler' has stated he would reinstate 2 particular popular caches set by two VERY ACTIVE geocachers if the cachers deleted their GC profile and made a new one , erasing their finds and hides from GC.com

- We believe the serial muggler is possibly a short haul truck driver in the midwest, hitting numerous caches on his routes. There is pattern showing lots of hits along major and minor interstates and highway's. But don't get me wrong, he has struck small towns deep within the woods as well.

--------------------------

If you have any information reguarding this serial muggler please forward it to use for database tracking purposes and evidence collection.

Edited November 10, 2006 by Quiggle

18.9k · November 10, 2006

The guy just wants attention - and you are giving it to him via this topic. Let it go and he will get bored of it before long.

BTW - sorry for the missing caches.

6.1k · November 10, 2006

caches around Wisconsin have been disappearing

It's a very cheesey thing to do.

he would reinstate 2 particular popular caches set by two VERY ACTIVE geocachers if

Don't give in to threats.

-And if you are the one doing this

The serial muggler could be anyone, including Captain Crunch. Posting a thread about it will only give them attention and make it worse.

November 10, 2006

caches around Wisconsin have been disappearing
It's a very cheesey thing to do.

he would reinstate 2 particular popular caches set by two VERY ACTIVE geocachers if
Don't give in to threats.

-And if you are the one doing this

The serial muggler could be anyone, including Captain Crunch. Posting a thread about it will only give them attention and make it worse.

This has been going on for a year and a half... don't you think he would be bored by now? Don't you think after maybe 9 or 10, he'd give up since he hasn't really gotten much attention till now.... He's been around more then a year and has stolen over 100 caches.....

1.1k · November 10, 2006

sit behind a tree near the cache with a gun and wait. :blink:

just keep putting the caches back. jerks will always exist, and caches are meant to be disposable, so just replace them as fast as the idiot steals them, nothing else you can do.

November 10, 2006

Just how widespread is the problem? Here is what we have gotten reported....

Notice the pattern of caches along major interstate highways. A typical short haul driver in the midwest drives these highways on a daily basis. There is also a pattern showing a high concentration of muggles within 10 miles of large truck/rest stops.

I know you think it sucks and it's no big deal, but going out caching wondering if you will find a cache, a note from this idiot, or nothing at all, really REALLY REALLLLLLLY sucks.

9.3k · November 10, 2006

This guy is findable, if you're willing to put forth the necessary effort.

Hide a cache. Include enough snarky comments in the write up to draw him out. Set up surveillance on the cache.

What you do to him when you catch him is up to you. :blink:

2.3k · November 10, 2006

This guy is findable, if you're willing to put forth the necessary effort.

Hide a cache. Include enough snarky comments in the write up to draw him out. Set up surveillance on the cache.

What you do to him when you catch him is up to you.

Bad advice, on several levels....

November 10, 2006

Have a group invest in those hunting cameras that capture photos of what walks in front of it. Motion triggered I assume. Set them facing a cache at random in the areas. At least you might get a pic of him to post and nobody has to be hanging around and no confrontation.

November 10, 2006

Have a group invest in those hunting cameras that capture photos of what walks in front of it. Motion triggered I assume. Set them facing a cache at random in the areas. At least you might get a pic of him to post and nobody has to be hanging around and no confrontation.

A couple things on this... you risk not only losing a cache but a very expensive hunting camera. Also, even though it appears to be widespread, it seems like it would be almost impossible to pinpoint which cache s/he would hit.

22k · November 10, 2006

The guy just wants attention - and you are giving it to him via this topic. Let it go and he will get bored of it before long.

BTW - sorry for the missing caches.

yep

November 10, 2006

Here's another option that doesn't involve a camera...turn all the area caches into members only caches. Check who is visiting the cache page. Take those names and compare them to accounts that are in your area but do not claim finds on caches. (Sock puppet account)

Or...

You could just ignore the person and they will go away.

November 10, 2006

Here's another option that doesn't involve a camera...turn all the area caches into members only caches. Check who is visiting the cache page. Take those names and compare them to accounts that are in your area but do not claim finds on caches. (Sock puppet account)

Or...

You could just ignore the person and they will go away.

you propose turning every cache in the midwest into a MO cache? I don't think that will work. They will just go to the ones that are not MO.

November 10, 2006

- In 2 instances 'TheMuggler' has stated he would reinstate 2 particular popular caches set by two VERY ACTIVE geocachers if the cachers deleted their GC profile and made a new one , erasing their finds and hides from GC.com

The last I heard extortion is illegal. See if you can file charges against the culprit.

7.2k · November 10, 2006

I'd also be careful about limiting your detective work to truck drivers. There are other professions that drive a goodly distance on a daily basis. Also, it's kind of hard to get a big truck near some caches.

November 10, 2006

I'm wondering which one of the people that has posted already is "The Muggler"? And does it really matter? Have fun and start logging your envelope muggle finds.. Yet another stat to keep track of.

November 10, 2006

Good thing the serial Muggler is only in the midwest and not in KY. :blink:

November 10, 2006

there is a strong KY presence here in this thread. Maybe we have a conspiracy going on to make other areas look back and draw the massive income from geocaching down to our area [evil laugh]HAHA[/evil laugh]

November 10, 2006

How did he contact the individuals offering to return the caches? I'm suprised he wasn't tracked through that.

Is stealing a cache illegal? I'm wondering that... I mean one would think that leaving something in public means giving up ownership of said item. Especially if you are inviting people to come look at it, find it, open it, exchange things in it...

Yet on the other hand, if I leave my car parked on the street (obviously public property), I'm not giving up ownership.

If you could convince the state and/or local police that this person was stealing private property, then at the very least you'd have a pretty strong deterant. I mean right now the guys biggest fear is that he gets caught in the act, and what's the possibility of that?!? Most likely he'd get seen by a fellow cacher along the trail and then he's simply assume the desguise of a normal cacher.

And even if he gets caught, what's the big deal? What's anyone going to do to him? Yell at him? He'll just laugh it off. But if you could at least get the state police to say: "You provide convincing proof that person-A is doing this and we'll go talk to him." Well, that is a little more worrysome and might cause a person to stop doing it. Just a thought.

Edited November 10, 2006 by Team CDCB

November 10, 2006

there is a strong KY presence here in this thread. Maybe we have a conspiracy going on to make other areas look back and draw the massive income from geocaching down to our area [evil laugh]HAHA[/evil laugh]

You're nut's. :blink:

9.3k · November 10, 2006

Bad advice, on several levels....

Why? Is confronting wrong such a bad thing? Would the situation be improved if everybody stuck their heads in the sand? We call that the United Nations solution. Wring your hands and hope the bad guy stops. If this goober had stolen a handful of caches, I'd agree that he might go away. Since he's obviously not interested in stopping, the best deterrent would be to identify him. His only weapon is his anonymity. Imagine if every cache owner saw something similar to this on the caches he's stolen?

Dear Sir or Ma'am,

Just a kwick note to tell you

your cache was stolen by

Bill Smith

123 Main St

Anywhere Oh. 12345

1.1k · November 10, 2006

just stop to think why someone would do this?

Only one reason every time, they have no friends, no girlfriend, nobody to pay attention to them. And this guy seems to spend a lot of time alone on the road... This person is completely desperate for someone to even notice they exist. Classic pathetic soul.

muggle a cache, read the logs to see that you have had some impact on a person. A really messed up brain from lots of loneliness and desperation. Kind of like a serial killer.

November 10, 2006

Regardless of how the thief is handled - he/she is a thief, pure and simple. Annoying - and a definite downer to folks who enjoy the 'open playing field' of geocaching. I'm always amazed at the mindset of a person who'll vandalize/steal for the sheer thrill of it. There's no fear of a consequence (and no worries about facing judgement one day either!). I commiserate with you folks - I've lost caches to mean-spirited muggles & it's not fun at all.

1.4k · November 10, 2006

just stop to think why someone would do this?

Only one reason every time, they have no friends, no girlfriend, nobody to pay attention to them. And this guy seems to spend a lot of time alone on the road... This person is completely desperate for someone to even notice they exist. Classic pathetic soul.

muggle a cache, read the logs to see that you have had some impact on a person. A really messed up brain from lots of loneliness and desperation. Kind of like a serial killer.

That's like giving them a compliment. This is simply an amature, same crap a 14 year old boy would do - nothing more, nothing less.

Simply replace the cache and give no mention that there were any problems, I know it is frustrating but this thread is not helping.

November 10, 2006

[Quote

Simply replace the cache and give no mention that there were any problems, I know it is frustrating but this thread is not helping.

I agree totally! Don't make such a big deal out of this! "Stuff" happens!

And by the way....while you are at it...let's get some better swag out on I-90. :blink:

November 10, 2006

It may be an experienced, longtime cacher who has decided that cache saturation is too much. Is there a common thread to the caches? Are any of them going missing that are epic caches or located in scenic spots? This guy may be hitting caches he thinks suck as a bit of a protest.

November 10, 2006

My guess is that one or both of the "2 VERY active local geocachers" specifically mentioned by this person would be able to look at their past and determine who this might be. I bet there is SOMETHING in a log somewhere that will indicate when this person became "disillusioned".

Sorry about the caches. Good luck.

November 10, 2006

My guess is that one or both of the "2 VERY active local geocachers" specifically mentioned by this person would be able to look at their past and determine who this might be. I bet there is SOMETHING in a log somewhere that will indicate when this person became "disillusioned".

Sorry about the caches. Good luck.

There may be an easier way... Groundspeak can look at their server logs and ban his IP.

- Find a common IP which has viewed all the caches

- Match that to a user ID

- See if that user ID ever logs finds, this person likely doesn't

Edited November 10, 2006 by benh57

November 10, 2006

I thank you for your input everyone. Myself and my team are making it a personal mission to track this guy down .....

To answer one question that stuck out in my head..... The serial muggler left the demands in his note to make contact with the owners of the cache.....

We just received 2 new reports today from IL numbering #120 & #118

I know you all think this will make it worse, and I would agree with you if some idiot stole 5 or 10 of these caches. But 120 is someone who will not go away nor get bored.

Also.... He has taken caches that were long established and visited frequently, in very scenic areas, including two of which were caches of the month in the state of Wisconsin.

I value anymore input....

38.2k · November 10, 2006

just stop to think why someone would do this?

Only one reason every time, they have no friends, no girlfriend, nobody to pay attention to them. And this guy seems to spend a lot of time alone on the road... This person is completely desperate for someone to even notice they exist. Classic pathetic soul.

muggle a cache, read the logs to see that you have had some impact on a person. A really messed up brain from lots of loneliness and desperation. Kind of like a serial killer.

That's like giving them a compliment. This is simply an amature, same crap a 14 year old boy would do - nothing more, nothing less.

Simply replace the cache and give no mention that there were any problems, I know it is frustrating but this thread is not helping.

Exactly!

November 10, 2006

- In 2 instances 'TheMuggler' has stated he would reinstate 2 particular popular caches set by two VERY ACTIVE geocachers if the cachers deleted their GC profile and made a new one , erasing their finds and hides from GC.com

The last I heard extortion is illegal. See if you can file charges against the culprit.

Hello? Police? Um, yeah. . .someone stole a film canister I had hidden in a bush at that one rest area. . .he says he'll start taking hidden tupperware if I don't do exactly what he says. . . :blink:

November 11, 2006

Hello? Police? Um, yeah. . .someone stole a film canister I had hidden in a bush at that one rest area. . .he says he'll start taking hidden tupperware if I don't do exactly what he says. . .

LOL :blink: I'm glad this guy isn't quite in my area. That would stink to not find a cache and not know if that was just because he might have stolen it.

1.2k · November 11, 2006

I wonder if this person might also have a habit of bed-wetting, cruelty to animals and arson? :blink:

Seriously, though, this person obviously likes to brag about it, so keep your eyes open.

November 12, 2006

And by the way....while you are at it...let's get some better swag out on I-90.

Try mine in WA I90 MP 219.

2.7k · November 12, 2006

You can create micro-spew and drive him crazy. Oh wait, never mind.

1.2k · November 13, 2006

There may be an easier way... Groundspeak can look at their server logs and ban his IP.

- Find a common IP which has viewed all the caches

- Match that to a user ID

- See if that user ID ever logs finds, this person likely doesn't

And what about everyone who pulls a PQ?? Are they all suspects?? If you combine everyone who visited these cache pages along with everyone who has ever pulled a PQ that would cover these caches, your probably looking at quite a large unmanageable number.

1.1k · November 13, 2006

well the most likely suspect is the person starting this thread. truth.

anyway, hide a cache, put a game camera near it, and the closest parking area.

as long as these caches were placed with permission, theft of them is a crime, and depending on how many you link to him and the total dollar value, it moves to a felony.

Edited November 13, 2006 by Keystone

November 13, 2006

t everyone who pulls a PQ?? Are they all suspects?? If you combine everyone who visited these cache pages along with everyone who has ever pulled a PQ that would cover these caches, your probably looking at quite a large unmanageable number.

A person who pulls a PQ but never logs any caches online? In the WI area only? I don't think there would be many of those.

Besides, the person is 99% likely not a premium member. (no PQs) Why would he pay to support a hobby he tries to destroy?

November 13, 2006

yeah, but it is three bucks we are talking about. I am sure he has spent more on gas to get to the caches he stole than the premium membership.

9.3k · November 13, 2006

All this geoangst had to come from somewhere. It's my guess that the thief used to be a premium member, got himself banned for doing something stupid, then created a sock puppet to wreak havoc and exact his revenge on those evil geocachers who haven't been banned.

November 13, 2006

Is there any proof that the guy has really taken 120 caches? He could have skipped a bunch of numbers and only put consecutive numbers when caches are close together.

Edit: Bah, punctuation.

Edited November 13, 2006 by The Great Mizuti

November 13, 2006

Is there any proof that the guy has really taken 120 caches? He could have skipped a bunch of numbers and only put consecutive numbers when caches are close together.

Check out post #6... those are supposedly the ones that have been reported muggled.

November 13, 2006

as long as these caches were placed with permission, theft of them is a crime, and depending on how many you link to him and the total dollar value, it moves to a felony.

Good point... Start collecting data on the ones placed with explicit permission, then start assigning a dollar value to them. Turn the info over the state police in Wisc. They may not do much initially, but if you can later provide any more data like a picture of the guy or perhaps a description of a vehical?

November 13, 2006

Bad advice, on several levels....

Why? Is confronting wrong such a bad thing? Would the situation be improved if everybody stuck their heads in the sand? We call that the United Nations solution.

I think the idea was that it is bad advice to necessarily wait to 'ambush' the thief because you don't know what you are ambushing. What if the guy is a deranged psycopath who would think nothing of murder to cover his tracks? Okay, probably not the case, but one doesn't know for sure. Better advice would be to get a group of people together if you're going to confront a guy in the woods, and even that is potentially dangerous.

Best advice would be to collect info on the guy, if possible, and turn it over to the authorities to handle.

20.7k · November 13, 2006

Do you really think that the authorities are going to take action on this?

1.4k · November 13, 2006

well the most likely suspect is the person starting this thread. truth.

"snip"

Odd, but could be true :laughing: lots of work making a map of stolen caches could be a trophy

November 13, 2006

Do you really think that the authorities are going to take action on this?

No, or at least I doubt they would invest a lot of time/effort into investigating it. But if you filled a complaint with the police along with a record of all the caches he allegedly muggled and with pictures of him and his car/truck, I would hope that they would at the very least go and talk to the guy. That alone might be enough to discourage the action.

24.7k · November 13, 2006

...This has been going on for a year and a half... don't you think he would be bored by now? Don't you think after maybe 9 or 10, he'd give up since he hasn't really gotten much attention till now.... He's been around more then a year and has stolen over 100 caches.....

Your guy is a cache maggot. Not a muggler. A muggled cache or a muggler is pretty much a one time deal, or a busy week. Then most move on to other things.

He's also an amateur trying to go pro. The reason for the notes is for recognition. It's easy enough to steal a cache. I could have taken over 1000 of them and more than a few power cachers could have taken thousands more. But it's not about taking the cache, it's about getting recognized for all your hard work. In other words recognition of a job well done.

My advice is simple. Normally the law isn't much help. They have other priorites. The same reasons they will overlook a stolen cache are the same reasonse they will overlook certain forms of exacting justice should you find the perp. The law isn't working for you until you use the law the same way that the cache maggot is.

24.7k · November 13, 2006

That's all plan A and you still have to catch the guy.

Plan B is to get on with your life because they prove to not be worth the effort.

3.5k · November 13, 2006

You guys are assuming that this is one person. Its possible its a handfull of people located across the region working together and sharing the account. Maybe its game of some kind for them? Just a thought.

Edited November 13, 2006 by 9Key

Wanted: 'Serial Muggler' in Midwest!

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