+Kabuthunk Posted November 16, 2006 Posted November 16, 2006 Well... this topic degraded to cannibalism. I can honestly say I didn't expect that. Y'know... I'd put it at about a 98% chance that the thief is reading this topic as it goes, and laughing their keister off about it. I'd probably have to go in the 'ignore them, and avoid making topics to stroke their ego' category at this point. Quote
+TrailGators Posted November 16, 2006 Posted November 16, 2006 (edited) Well... this topic degraded to cannibalism. I can honestly say I didn't expect that. Y'know... I'd put it at about a 98% chance that the thief is reading this topic as it goes, and laughing their keister off about it. Hey! I never said anything about cannibalism....... Edited November 17, 2006 by TrailGators Quote
+fizzymagic Posted November 17, 2006 Posted November 17, 2006 Y'know... I'd put it at about a 98% chance that the thief is reading this topic as it goes, and laughing their keister off about it. I thought it was obvious to everyone that the muggler in question has contributed to this thread. Kind of like arsonists who offer to help put out the fires they start. Quote
+Sioneva Posted November 17, 2006 Posted November 17, 2006 *snaps her fingers* Darnit, they caught me. With my hand in the ammo can! Quote
+Team Noltex Posted November 17, 2006 Posted November 17, 2006 To summarize: 1. Not a priority crime. It's not likely ever going to be investigated. 2. Quit talking about it and it will stop. Quote
+TrailGators Posted November 17, 2006 Posted November 17, 2006 To summarize: 1. Not a priority crime. It's not likely ever going to be investigated. 2. Quit talking about it and it will stop. This has been going on for 1.5 years and this thread has been going on for a week...... Quote
teameverest Posted November 20, 2006 Author Posted November 20, 2006 Thanks for everyones input, we are getting more great idea's and think were tracking closer to culprits location and who he REALLY is..... Quote
+sbell111 Posted November 20, 2006 Posted November 20, 2006 Thanks for everyones input, we are getting more great idea's and think were tracking closer to culprits location and who he REALLY is..... I suspect that 90% of the people who make that statement are 100% wrong. Quote
magellan315 Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 and think were tracking closer to culprits location and who he REALLY is..... You are lawsuit waiting to happen. If you think you figure out who this person is and drop by there home the police will be visiting you if your wrong and if your right you may only succeed in making things worse. I used to live in an area with a muggle. We took the same steps as suggested early, we deleted any on line logs, waited a few weeks and replaced the cache. eventually they went away. Yours is pretty deteremined, time and patience will fix this. Not confronation. Quote
Clan Riffster Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 time and patience will fix this. Not confronation. The U.N. approach hasn't slowed this clown down in 1.5 years. I can't imagine it suddenly working now. The only thing that will stop this guy is exposure. Quote
+olbluesguy Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 Have a group invest in those hunting cameras that capture photos of what walks in front of it. Motion triggered I assume. Set them facing a cache at random in the areas. At least you might get a pic of him to post and nobody has to be hanging around and no confrontation. A couple things on this... you risk not only losing a cache but a very expensive hunting camera. Also, even though it appears to be widespread, it seems like it would be almost impossible to pinpoint which cache s/he would hit. I have a trail cam out right now on two of my caches that have been vandalized, and am not worried about loosing a camera because they are not at the cache site, but the parking areas facing the back of the vehicle as it has to park. It gives a clear shot of the plate. And after reading this forum, and seeing that law enforcement has bigger fish to fry. I guess I will have to handle the problem my own way if I catch the culprit, which doesn't include forgetting about it. There is too much [ignore it, and it will go away] mentality going on today. That’s why Law enforcement is so busy with the bigger fish. People ignored them when they were little fish with hopes that they would go away, and they seized on that apathy, and now you got your giant case load of bigger fish. Hypothetically, I may catch the rat, and kick him in the butt, and get arrested, and I’ll bet I am told more than once “You should have let the law handle it”........Yea right! Quote
+DiS02 Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 You may kick him/her in the butt but its going to be hecka funny if they end up kicking you up even worse. Or the prison boys get to have fun with ya is another possibility. Did any of you ever think that maybe just maybe (as has been said before) that this person is watching this thread, laughing their keister off over you all busting peanuts about this & now will know of any 'things' you may think up? In addition how are you going to prove (as has also been said before when camera suggestions came up) that the persons vehicle thats snapshotted is actually the one that took it? Be careful of what you think you can & cant do, you could be the one that winds up on the wrong side. When people in a mall get shot over a stupid arguement, or get run over because of a bad case of road rage, dont always assume its going to happen to the other person. In this day & age that other person has a very high chance of being you. Stop posting about it, stop making idle threats about it & just go on with your lives. Quote
+TrailGators Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 time and patience will fix this. Not confronation. The U.N. approach hasn't slowed this clown down in 1.5 years. I can't imagine it suddenly working now. The only thing that will stop this guy is exposure. Exactly! Quote
+olbluesguy Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 You may kick him/her in the butt but its going to be hecka funny if they end up kicking you up even worse. Or the prison boys get to have fun with ya is another possibility. Did any of you ever think that maybe just maybe (as has been said before) that this person is watching this thread, laughing their keister off over you all busting peanuts about this & now will know of any 'things' you may think up? In addition how are you going to prove (as has also been said before when camera suggestions came up) that the persons vehicle thats snapshotted is actually the one that took it? Be careful of what you think you can & cant do, you could be the one that winds up on the wrong side. When people in a mall get shot over a stupid arguement, or get run over because of a bad case of road rage, dont always assume its going to happen to the other person. In this day & age that other person has a very high chance of being you. Stop posting about it, stop making idle threats about it & just go on with your lives. Disoz; Just what part of hypotheticaly don't you understand? Quote
4wheelin_fool Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 Somebody told me that if you laminate a picture of Rosie O'Donnell wearing a bathing suit onto the outside of the cache container a thief may not touch it. Quote
+emurock Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 Somebody told me that if you laminate a picture of Rosie O'Donnell wearing a bathing suit onto the outside of the cache container a thief may not touch it. Quote
+BuxCamper Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 Somebody told me that if you laminate a picture of Rosie O'Donnell wearing a bathing suit onto the outside of the cache container a thief may not touch it. Oh no, here comes lunch.... ROLF Quote
+thestray Posted November 21, 2006 Posted November 21, 2006 (edited) Just for the CSI Geocaching point of view, here's some stuff I'd be interested is seeing. 1. A graphic detailing the location of each muggled cache and the date it was vandalized. If the info were available, you could probably do it as a fly-thru in Google Earth. One option is that the muggler started relatively close to home and expanded outward. 2. How soon did the muggling occur after the previous cache visit and how soon was it discovered after the muggling. 3. Was there any pattern in terms of how soon the cache was muggled after it was hidden and announced. 4. I'd be interested in seeing the "ransom" notes to look at any patterns that could be derived from them - are they typewritten, do they appear to come from the same printer, is the language the same, any peculiar grammer, etc. 5. I don't know what data the geocaching.com folks keep on members once they log in and move around the website, but if they had that data, it'd be interesting to see whether a unique member looked at the geocache's page within a couple weeks of each of them getting muggled. 6. It'd be interesting to have some perspective on how challenging the caches were to find. Is the individual only going after quick finds or what? 7. I'd look at the geocaching.com membership list for the area. Does everyone know everyone else? Is there a geocacher that no one has ever met? Granted, if I were the muggler, I'd probably register as living somewhere far from the area. But then, if geocaching.com does track users, it'd be interesting to know why someone in another state was looking at these caches. 8. Lastly, I do agree with what several people have already brought up. Once a cache has been muggled, don't give the individual any credit. Edit the logs and replace the cache as quickly as possible. It's the same philosophy behind painting over graffiti as soon as the vandalism is done. You don't allow the muggler to get any satisfaction in his or her actions. I agree that getting the police involved is unlikely, but that's not the only option. Assuming the individual could be conclusively identified and was banned from Geocaching.com, it sure would make an interesting story for the local newspaper on how a bunch of tech geeks involved in an interesting hobby hunted down and identified a vandal in their midst. Can you tell I've read too many criminal profiling books? thestray P.S. Ok, I thought of one more. Do any geocachers in the region recall anything happening in the weeks or months preceding the start of the vandalism that might have driven a member of the local geocaching community to become disgruntled? A flame war on a local geocaching email list, etc. Did anyone quit the local scene but still live in the area? Oh, and does anyone know who might have a grudge against to the two geocachers whom the muggler wanted to delete their profiles? Edited November 22, 2006 by thestray Quote
+DiS02 Posted November 22, 2006 Posted November 22, 2006 TheStray, Some interesting ideas you put forth, but as a few Law Enforcements types have already said it they would need to have conclusive proof of the person(s) who have supposedly done this. And most likely due to the areas affected LE wont get involved. Anyways, I did want to address one thing... my local caching group doesnt know me but by name on a BB, my profiles have no really id'ing info other than I live in Sussex Cty DE, dislike people who walk on buffer beach dunes, & am a computer geek. They dont know what I look like in person, have never ever met me & so couldnt id me if I was put in a police lineup. What this leads too is... I dont really care for my local group due to, lets just say some things certain people in the group do, so my socializing with them is nil & none. So any area cachers knowing or not knowing if I were a vandal wouldnt be too likely. I also look at caches in many other states, local & not local, run PQs on them, & when caches are mentioned in threads I look at them. Same when I just randomly surf the caches listed. So I'll admit it, I'm the one who stole those caches, & I'll do it again... they were in idaho & alabama right? Quote
+TrailGators Posted November 22, 2006 Posted November 22, 2006 (edited) Somebody told me that if you laminate a picture of Rosie O'Donnell wearing a bathing suit onto the outside of the cache container a thief may not touch it. That would not be a rosey picture! Edited November 22, 2006 by TrailGators Quote
+thestray Posted November 22, 2006 Posted November 22, 2006 HeyDiS02, I agree that law enforcement wouldn't do anything. I was thinking more along the lines of looking at whatever information we could pull together to narrow down the list of possible persons of interest. I had an instance in the past where I (and a few others) used IP addresses and some social sleuthing to track down a guy who assaulted a friend of mine at Burning Man a couple years back. Even had the guy fedex me a handwritten confession. That being said, you wouldn't mind mailing me a strand of hair and a handwriting sample, would you? Thestray TheStray, Some interesting ideas you put forth, but as a few Law Enforcements types have already said it they would need to have conclusive proof of the person(s) who have supposedly done this. And most likely due to the areas affected LE wont get involved. Anyways, I did want to address one thing... my local caching group doesnt know me but by name on a BB, my profiles have no really id'ing info other than I live in Sussex Cty DE, dislike people who walk on buffer beach dunes, & am a computer geek. They dont know what I look like in person, have never ever met me & so couldnt id me if I was put in a police lineup. What this leads too is... I dont really care for my local group due to, lets just say some things certain people in the group do, so my socializing with them is nil & none. So any area cachers knowing or not knowing if I were a vandal wouldnt be too likely. I also look at caches in many other states, local & not local, run PQs on them, & when caches are mentioned in threads I look at them. Same when I just randomly surf the caches listed. So I'll admit it, I'm the one who stole those caches, & I'll do it again... they were in idaho & alabama right? Quote
+DiS02 Posted November 22, 2006 Posted November 22, 2006 Problem with trying to use IP addies is that some of us on dialup are not assigned a set addie, same with a lot of high speed connections, or at least in this area its like that. I've been on both sides of trying to unban ips due to them being used in the wrong manner, its not fun & a total PITA. As I said, interesting ideas though, & as far as the hair sample & handwriting.. sure I can snip a piece from my domestic cat & get ya a left handed sample (I'm a natural righty but can scribble fairly well with my left, heh). Quote
+Harry Dolphin Posted November 22, 2006 Posted November 22, 2006 Has anyone explained the title of this thread??? Why would anyone want a serial muggler in the Midwest? Quote
+thestray Posted November 22, 2006 Posted November 22, 2006 DiS02, It's one option to pursue IP addresses. The other option I put out is finding out is how much info the geocaching.com folks track when a member logs on and looks at different geocache pages. Dial-up IP addresses change each time you log on. If the vandal is on cable or DSL, the likelihood is that they have the same IP address for two weeks or longer. My point isn't to disagree with you. My point is to get the message to the muggler, who might be reading this thread, that it would not be that hard to ID them. Thestray Quote
Trinity's Crew Posted November 22, 2006 Posted November 22, 2006 Y'know... I'd put it at about a 98% chance that the thief is reading this topic as it goes, and laughing their keister off about it. I thought it was obvious to everyone that the muggler in question has contributed to this thread. Kind of like arsonists who offer to help put out the fires they start. BINGO! Quote
+sbell111 Posted November 22, 2006 Posted November 22, 2006 DiS02,It's one option to pursue IP addresses. The other option I put out is finding out is how much info the geocaching.com folks track when a member logs on and looks at different geocache pages. Dial-up IP addresses change each time you log on. If the vandal is on cable or DSL, the likelihood is that they have the same IP address for two weeks or longer. My point isn't to disagree with you. My point is to get the message to the muggler, who might be reading this thread, that it would not be that hard to ID them. Thestray The answer to why your plan won't work is the same as the answer to almost every question posed in these forums: pocket queries. Quote
+truckdweller Posted November 23, 2006 Posted November 23, 2006 Y'know... I'd put it at about a 98% chance that the thief is reading this topic as it goes, and laughing their keister off about it. I thought it was obvious to everyone that the muggler in question has contributed to this thread. Kind of like arsonists who offer to help put out the fires they start. Kind of my point, except I believe that the points on the map are mostly or all fictitious. I'll ask again, where's the list or lists of these missing caches? The original poster had to have some kind of list to know where the missing caches were in order to make the map. This isn't the first thread of this nature started by the very same poster, there was another thread just like it back in February. I also find it amazing that this poster can put forth all the effort to make maps & put in the time here but can't even take the time to go to their cache pages & address the issues there as per GC guidelines. In fact, the poster didn't appear to even take the time to respond to e-mails from Reviewers trying to contact them about the conditions of their caches. Quote
Neos2 Posted November 23, 2006 Posted November 23, 2006 Oh, and does anyone know who might have a grudge against to the two geocachers whom the muggler wanted to delete their profiles? Well, I don't know who might have a grudge against those "two geocachers" (whoever they might allegedly be???), but there was one thread that might have made someone angry. Quote
+olbluesguy Posted November 23, 2006 Posted November 23, 2006 After reading thru the two above links I have come to the conclusion that the OP is probably a troll of sorts. I was waiting to hear more from him, but he has not appeared since page two. No one from his area has chimed in on this to confirm his story, but I found one Quote on Jan 06 from a local..... "Another WI geocacher here. I have heard absolutely NOTHING about this except from the poster who posted it, himself, on several places on the WI boards. I suspect an overactive imagination is at work here. " If this is really happening in Wi., I would like to hear about it from somebody else. Surely with a hundred muggled caches there has to be some other folks that can lend credence to these claims. Quote
+TrailGators Posted November 23, 2006 Posted November 23, 2006 After reading thru the two above links I have come to the conclusion that the OP is probably a troll of sorts. I was waiting to hear more from him, but he has not appeared since page two. No one from his area has chimed in on this to confirm his story, but I found one Quote on Jan 06 from a local..... "Another WI geocacher here. I have heard absolutely NOTHING about this except from the poster who posted it, himself, on several places on the WI boards. I suspect an overactive imagination is at work here. " If this is really happening in Wi., I would like to hear about it from somebody else. Surely with a hundred muggled caches there has to be some other folks that can lend credence to these claims. Really good point! This whole thread could be over nothing! We have had more caches randomly muggled around here than what was on that map of that area. Quote
+thestray Posted November 23, 2006 Posted November 23, 2006 I can't believe I took the bait. It must be the tryptophan from the turkey. Quote
Imofongo Posted November 28, 2006 Posted November 28, 2006 (edited) The Muggler here in Wisconsin is very real. I have seen 2 muggled caches myself and heard of many others around my area. I hope this idiot is taken care of soon! Mofongo Just had to chime in ! Edited November 28, 2006 by Imofongo Quote
+sbell111 Posted November 28, 2006 Posted November 28, 2006 The Muggler here in Wisconsin is very real. I have seen 2 muggled caches myself and heard of many others around my area. I hope this idiot is taken care of soon! Mofongo Just had to chime in ! Hmmm... Has been a member for only a few days? check. Hasn't logged any finds? check. Quote
+ArtieD Posted November 28, 2006 Posted November 28, 2006 The Muggler here in Wisconsin is very real. I have seen 2 muggled caches myself and heard of many others around my area. I hope this idiot is taken care of soon! Mofongo Just had to chime in ! How can you "see" two muggled caches when you've found none yourself? Quote
+forthferalz Posted November 28, 2006 Posted November 28, 2006 --> QUOTE(R.O.B @ Nov 13 2006, 03:41 PM) 2565852[/snapback] We had a problem like this in Fort Worth a year ago or more. The person would take everything in the cache but leave the container with a note. We handled it by depriving this person/persons of what they want --- attention. We discussed the topic amongst ourselves on a invite-only, non-gc.com forum, and anybody who did find a cache muggled by this person logged it in as a regular find. Anybody who was not aware of how widespread the problem and logged the cache as muggled was was asked to edit their post so as to show it had not been muggled. Without the attention, it didn't last much longer. In the end I think our love of geocaching far outweighs their love of destroying the game for us. To us it's a passion so we will go on with it no matter what. To them, since it's not a passion they will tire of it sooner or later. wow brilliant! PS. Letterboxing clues are often only passed by word of mouth or by good old fashioned snailmail. Quote
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