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Mountain Lion Alert?


Team Rampant Lion

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In the June 28 issue of the Sparta Independent there was a submission entitled "Mountain Lion Alert" where an individual described a sighting of a mountain lion in the Summit subdivision of Sparta (not far from the Sparta Edison/Sparta Mountain WMA area). The individual described the cat as being 7 - 8 feet long while leaping in the air. Yikes! :laughing:

 

After reading this, I happened to be playing in The Hunt/The Unusual section of the Forums reading about Unusual Animal Encounters and came across the posting of this picture describing the prints as that of a large mountain lion:

 

55de5fdf-c8a9-488a-bb21-6cdb93c4df08.jpg

 

This reminded me of this earlier discussion topic I submitted. While I was quick to write off the possibility of a mountain lion before, I am a little less sure now. They look awfully similar and they were very large (much larger than Bailey's prints who is 110 lbs).

 

Anyone else seen any clues? What's your opinion on fact vs fiction?

 

Keep your eyes open and your cameras ready! :laughing:

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In the June 28 issue of the Sparta Independent there was a submission entitled "Mountain Lion Alert" where an individual described a sighting of a mountain lion in the Summit subdivision of Sparta (not far from the Sparta Edison/Sparta Mountain WMA area). The individual described the cat as being 7 - 8 feet long while leaping in the air. Yikes! :laughing:

 

After reading this, I happened to be playing in The Hunt/The Unusual section of the Forums reading about Unusual Animal Encounters and came across the posting of this picture describing the prints as that of a large mountain lion:

 

55de5fdf-c8a9-488a-bb21-6cdb93c4df08.jpg

 

This reminded me of this earlier discussion topic I submitted. While I was quick to write off the possibility of a mountain lion before, I am a little less sure now. They look awfully similar and they were very large (much larger than Bailey's prints who is 110 lbs).

 

Anyone else seen any clues? What's your opinion on fact vs fiction?

 

Keep your eyes open and your cameras ready! :laughing:

 

I don't thinkh that's a mountain lion print in that photo. You usually don't see claws in cat tracks.

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Cats have retractable claws, which are usually not seen in their tracks.

 

But I would think that the first persons to realize that there is a big cat afoot would be farmers losing sheep and calves. Sussex County has a lot of sheep and goats and the surely are going to be easier to prey upon than a deer. If there are no reports of sheep or goats being killed you can be assured that there is no mountain lion.

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Cats have retractable claws, which are usually not seen in their tracks.

 

But I would think that the first persons to realize that there is a big cat afoot would be farmers losing sheep and calves. Sussex County has a lot of sheep and goats and the surely are going to be easier to prey upon than a deer. If there are no reports of sheep or goats being killed you can be assured that there is no mountain lion.

 

Well I am certainly no animal tracker so I'm not going to stand behind the other guy's claims that the pics are of mountain lion tracks as I don't know if he knows any more than me or not. I am curious as to whether the retractable claws would show up in soft ground (mud) or snow as in these two pictures or not.

 

I had posted my picture on an animal tracking site and got all sorts of answers - mountain lion, bobcat, wolf, veril (sp?) dog, ect.. Didn't help me much to give any facts about my pic.

 

I am not aware of farmer complaints of sheep/goats being killed but there are reports of pets being killed in NJ by big cats. I think Team Perrito Blanco posted the story of the lady whose cats were killed earlier.

 

Anyway, I'm very curious as to whether there are big cats out there or not. I'll admit that it adds to my caching adventures to think that there are, particularly when I'm deep in the woods alone and hear some movement close by. :P

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Coyotes all over the nation are knows to eat cats. Maybe it wasn't a big cat attack. Coyotes are also known to walk trails, just like humans do. They get on a trail and follow it along the route. Some were just spotted in High Mountain area of Wayne about 2 weeks ago. aND TRL and other cachers, you should always know that you are never alone when in the woods.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ax0-JZrwsA

Edited by Packanack
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quote Packanack Jul 13 2006, 10:58 AM

Coyotes all over the nation are knows to eat cats. Maybe it wasn't a big cat attack.

 

I only mentioned that story as the lady claims to have actually SEEN the mountain lion in her yard.

 

TRL and other cachers, you should always know that you are never alone when in the woods.

 

That's what I am counting on, how else do you get the good pictures. :laughing:

 

44094159-f81c-4a51-a21c-acbda36d6e71.jpg

Edited by Team Rampant Lion
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Since we (Tiffany and her slaves) take tracking very seriously, we bought a book called "Mammal Tracks & Sign" by Mark Elbroch, that we compare all footprints to. One of the things this book says is that cat tracks have an upside down U shape to the pad (and we know that from having harbored that sort of animal). Coyotes, on the other hand, have a sort of hole in the middle of their paw that leaves a bump in the middle of the print. It looks like the first picture has a bump in the middle of the print (where, if it was a cat, would be an indented upsidedown U). The second might be a cat. We don't like cats.

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1c1f05fc-0b34-4254-b541-6b309a90280e.jpg

I was in Raritan Borough, Somerset looking for a benchmark today. About a mile west of the Raritan Train Station. I heard a loud rustling in the underbrush to the north. I found that surprising, since most wild animals are quiet, unless they're startled. I was about five hundred feet away, and looked back, and I saw this animal watching me. It watched for at least five minutes (which is also unusual). That was enough time to take this picture. Not a great shot, being from about five hundred feet away. But it sure looks like a mountain lion to me!

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1c1f05fc-0b34-4254-b541-6b309a90280e.jpg

I was in Raritan Borough, Somerset looking for a benchmark today. About a mile west of the Raritan Train Station. I heard a loud rustling in the underbrush to the north. I found that surprising, since most wild animals are quiet, unless they're startled. I was about five hundred feet away, and looked back, and I saw this animal watching me. It watched for at least five minutes (which is also unusual). That was enough time to take this picture. Not a great shot, being from about five hundred feet away. But it sure looks like a mountain lion to me!

 

If that's a mountain lion, you have some pretty wide RR tracks over there in Jersey. He should be able to but his hind paws on one rail and the fronts on the other with ease.... 500ft away??... c'mon it is under 150 unless you are using a telephoto lens. You forgot the ;) after your post.

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1c1f05fc-0b34-4254-b541-6b309a90280e.jpg

I was in Raritan Borough, Somerset looking for a benchmark today. About a mile west of the Raritan Train Station. I heard a loud rustling in the underbrush to the north. I found that surprising, since most wild animals are quiet, unless they're startled. I was about five hundred feet away, and looked back, and I saw this animal watching me. It watched for at least five minutes (which is also unusual). That was enough time to take this picture. Not a great shot, being from about five hundred feet away. But it sure looks like a mountain lion to me!

 

Ppsssstttt........redfox.........

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Photo was cropped, and brightened a bit. That is all that was done. Friends from Arizona tell me that it is a mountain lion. Friends from New Jersey tell me either red fox or coyote. Met a geocacher at an event on Saturday who says that she definitely saw one at Hacklebarney, earlier in the month. That's not too far north of Raritan. Of course, we 'don't have any mountain lions in New Jersey.' That's what they said about coyotes twenty years ago. If it's a red fox, it's a mighty big one. If its a mountain lion, it's a rather small one. I don't know. I offered my opinion. I'm looking for other opinions.

eocaching does not do a good job of shrinking photos, but here's the original photo, untouched:

04d9fa59-98d2-49f4-86eb-f3e29432fea1.jpg

Obviously, it is clearer when cropped.

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I work in Civil Engineering and I can tell you that the standard distance for the space between the rails on a railroad track is 4'- 8½". To me, that makes that look like a fox. It could be a dog.

 

Mature Mountain Lions are 5 to 8 feet long. This guy might be 2. The rails come up to this chest. A mature mountain lion is 20-24 inches high at the shoulder so the tops surface of the rails would need to be 15 plus inches higher than the ties. What are they really maybe 8 inches? They are born about a foot long so by the time they are on their own they are bigger than this guy. That dark smudge behind him does look like a tail.. if it is rule out Bobcat, but it could be something else near the tracks and not really part of the animal. body shape rules out a fox. What's left? A big stray cat? Legs are too long. Longish legs are a sign of a coyote. Maybe you have a coyote / stray dog mix here?? Not anything definite, but my best guess...

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I'm pretty sure that the picture is a young red fox. I've had one hnging around the house here the last week or so. Nearly fearless, yesterday, it walked right up the middle of the road, and across the golf course. When young, they don't have the white tip on the tail, and it looks long and thin.

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>>

>>I agree with BrianSnat, it does look more like a Bobcat.

 

No offense, but it doesn't look even remotely like a bobcat (lynx rufus).

#1, Bobcats are called BOBcats because they have BOBBED tails; IOW, they have extremely SHORT tails, which, when held down, don't even reach their hocks. However, they normally carry their tails UP.

The animal in the picture has a long tail, held DOWN, which brushes on the ground. Therefore, it can't possibly be Lynx Rufus.

#2, Bobcats are SPOTTED or mottled. The animal in the picture appears to be solid colored.

 

http://www.mnh.si.edu/mna/image_info.cfm?species_id=144

 

And also no offense to the OP, who's either been fooled or is trying to fool everyone else, but the thought that the animal in the picture is a cougar aka mountain lion is laughable. The animal in that picture is **SMALL** - look at the height of the rails in relation to the animal's chest. It's either a small fox, a TINY coyote, or - most likely, to my eyes - a domestic cat.

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Deb saw what she described as a BIG cat head (8-10" across)...

peering down at her on July 4th from above a cache in Hacklebarney Park...

From her description, it was definately a Mtn. Lion...

And when NJ Fish & Game was contacted, they were not surprised...

We were not the first to report a sighting...

 

These all could be the same cat as they have a range with a radius of about 70 miles...

Probably an escapee from somewhere...

Edited by Peconic Bay Sailors
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the first one is either a coyote or dog, the one with the money is a large cat. possibly a cougar, the one on the tracks is a red fox definately. and the one from central pa is either a dog or coyote......I trap therefore i track..also live in the wilds of pa..I have bobcats, bear, coyotes, etc. behind my house.

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Deb saw what she described as a BIG cat head (8-10" across)...

peering down at her on July 4th from above a cache in Hacklebarney Park...

From her description, it was definately a Mtn. Lion...

And when NJ Fish & Game was contacted, they were not surprised...

We were not the first to report a sighting...

 

These all could be the same cat as they have a range with a radius of about 70 miles...

Probably an escapee from somewhere...

8 to 10" is only a large house cat or coon cat, a mtn. lions head is quite larger...

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Deb saw what she described as a BIG cat head (8-10" across)...

peering down at her on July 4th from above a cache in Hacklebarney Park...

From her description, it was definately a Mtn. Lion...

And when NJ Fish & Game was contacted, they were not surprised...

We were not the first to report a sighting...

 

These all could be the same cat as they have a range with a radius of about 70 miles...

Probably an escapee from somewhere...

8 to 10" is only a large house cat or coon cat, a mtn. lions head is quite larger...

 

Deb knows a house cat when she sees it...

She described to me what she had seen,

I showed her pictures of cats and she picked out the Mtn. Lion without hesitation...

Mtn. Lions have a distinct face... like no other cat...

AND Fish and Game has said there are a LOT of reports of one in Northern NJ...

Geeze, what's wrong with peolple?

or is it just the anonymity of the internet?

Why must everyone try to refute this?

A few years ago there was a Tiger in the Pine Barrens...

also an escapee... no body believed it til it was in the papers that they were investigating the owner...

 

There are quite a few people who possess (either legally or illegally) Mtn. Lions in NJ...

There was also a guy in the BRONX who had one last year, til they busted him (that one was illegal...

If it had gotten out in the Bronx, no one would have believed sightings of that either...

Edited by Peconic Bay Sailors
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Deb saw what she described as a BIG cat head (8-10" across)...

peering down at her on July 4th from above a cache in Hacklebarney Park...

From her description, it was definately a Mtn. Lion...

And when NJ Fish & Game was contacted, they were not surprised...

We were not the first to report a sighting...

 

These all could be the same cat as they have a range with a radius of about 70 miles...

Probably an escapee from somewhere...

8 to 10" is only a large house cat or coon cat, a mtn. lions head is quite larger...

 

I was there when Deb spotted the cat. I did not see it but I sure saw her face as she ran down a hill of boulders. She saw something that was big. Not a house cat. I've had house cats all my life. 3 presently and feed a group of ferrals. The biggest full grown male's head is maybe 4" across. That a fair distance from 10". What everyone seems to ignore is perhaps it wasn't a fully mature cat. Remember this was a cut and run situation too and a ruler wasn't available. I think we should all be open to the possibility of Mountain Lions in NJ and just be aware. If you're out caching with your children please keep them in sight at all times.

 

Mike

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In the June 28 issue of the Sparta Independent there was a submission entitled "Mountain Lion Alert" where an individual described a sighting of a mountain lion in the Summit subdivision of Sparta (not far from the Sparta Edison/Sparta Mountain WMA area). The individual described the cat as being 7 - 8 feet long while leaping in the air. Yikes! :lol:

 

After reading this, I happened to be playing in The Hunt/The Unusual section of the Forums reading about Unusual Animal Encounters and came across the posting of this picture describing the prints as that of a large mountain lion:

 

55de5fdf-c8a9-488a-bb21-6cdb93c4df08.jpg

 

This reminded me of this earlier discussion topic I submitted. While I was quick to write off the possibility of a mountain lion before, I am a little less sure now. They look awfully similar and they were very large (much larger than Bailey's prints who is 110 lbs).

 

Anyone else seen any clues? What's your opinion on fact vs fiction?

 

Keep your eyes open and your cameras ready! :lol:

 

Here is a print I found back in Feb. in Central PA.

 

0e9abf5d-6803-495b-b7dc-711d974f0094.jpg

 

A few years ago I working as an animal control officer in Central PA. I got a report of a mountain lion sighting in a housing development that was surrounded by some dense forest. I went up there with a local police officer who was an avid hunter and we found some tracks left by deer that had definatly had a scare. We also found some large paw type tracks. Neither one of us had any experience with tracking cats before, so we were clueless as to whether there had been a mountain lion there, or just a big dog. We contacted a state game warden who officially told us that there were no mountain lions in PA. Unofficially he advised us to stay out of that forest for a few days.

After that I decided to get educated on the difference between K9 and feline tracks. I think the picture in the OP is from a large dog. K9 tracks always show claw marks because dogs can't retract their claws. From what I've been told, cats only extend their claws in the ground to gain traction. When that occurs they also exert a large amount of force into the ground, ripping up chunks of dirt, and therefore leaving very poor tracks. Felines also tend to have a larger pad at the base of the paw than K9s do. You can tell the difference by drawing an X through the track. Draw a diagonal line from top left to bottom right that travels between the first and second toes on the track. Then draw a line from top right to bottom left between the third and fourth toes. If you can draw those lines so that they intersect and form and X, or very close to one, without hitting the base pad of the track you have yourself a K9. If you can't form and X you have a feline. The front two toes in a K9 track will always be even with each other, while a feline's front two toes will be offset with one slightly in front of the other.

In light of that I am pretty sure that what I saw that day was from a dog. The second picture posted of the track in the soft mud looks to be a much better candidate for a feline track. I've come across some bobcat tracks in snow and they looked similar to that, but smaller.

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I work in Civil Engineering and I can tell you that the standard distance for the space between the rails on a railroad track is 4'- 8½". To me, that makes that look like a fox. It could be a dog.

 

Hmmm.....I'm measuring 4.71..... :D

 

There are mountain lions in Jersey. Had one on a farm in Holland Township.

Heard it, seen it. Myself and other area farmers contacted the authorities, there was no real suprise.

It was around for maybe two weeks then never seen or heard again.

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They are definately out there...

Believe me...

My wife, Deb, KNOWS the difference between a

Bobcat, fox , kitty, cow, deer, bear, coyote, coydog, cougar, etc...

she spent 15+ years living INSIDE Adirondack Park...

If she says she saw a cougar... SHE SAW A COUGAR!

She was within 15' of the one she saw in Hackelbarney...

and when we contacted Fish & Game about it, they were not surprised,

and said there were a few in the area!

Probably released by someone who had them as a pet and they got too big and unrully...

They don't make good pets as soon as they reach maturity...

And since it is illegal to have them in the first place, they are just released in a rural area...

Thay have a lifetime roaming area with about a 60 mile radius...

So they could be anywhere in Northern NJ!

Edited by Peconic Bay Sailors
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Working here at the news station we get photos sent to us quite often of lions being seen in the northeast of PA. For some reason people always try to refute the idea that they're around (PA Fish & Game by default), but I've even seen a picture of one with his front legs up on the edge of the back deck of someone's house. Supposedly the owner had a bird cage in the window that attracted it's interest. :D I had my doubts until I saw that the owner was about 85+ year old woman who lived there for her whole life. Now I know there are always a slew of hoax sightings, but we keep getting the sightings in the same remote area. Here's an interesting article: http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/281...006-593130.html about a local encounter.

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The news of the Mountain Lion was on the news again tonight. The area it was seen was on Mountain Road in Roxbury near the cache "Project #1-2005" (GCNJ4X). In the report yesterday a police officer that saw the cat said it was about 120lbs :laughing:.

 

It would be pretty cool to get a picture of this animal.

 

QUOTE (Peconic Bay Sailors)

 

"She was within 15' of the one she saw in Hackelbarney..."

 

Hacklebarney is about 8 miles from this area.

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