There's Trouble In Peru. What To Do?

[+Jamie Z]

I'm planning a trip to Peru (among others) in a few months, so naturally I checked out possible caches in Peru and I'd like some opinions (official preferred) as to what I should do about some of the cache listings I've found.

 

Out of 17 caches listed in the country, seven are virtuals owned by a user named Cave or Die Dude. He has not visited the site for 2.5 years. The cache listing guidelines say this about grandfathered virtual caches:

 

You should also return to the Geocaching.com web site at least once a month to show you are still active. Caches posted and "abandoned" may be archived by the site.

This user also owns a physical cache in the country which is apparently being maintained by a local, but the location has apparently changed. He and a couple other finders give directions in their logs to find the cache.

 

This traditional cache was a physical vacation cache which has been "converted" to a virtual, per instructions on the cache page

 

This cache is apparently owned by locals, but the container has been missing for months, and it's being logged as a virtual.

 

So... 59% of the caches in the country should, according to the guidelines, be archived... but I'm not about to go post 10 SBA notes on caches in a country in which I don't live.

 

That said, I think the caches there should be held to the same standard as elsewhere in the world. Should the caches be brought to the attention of reviewers?

 

Jamie

[+CO Admin]

Should the caches be brought to the attention of reviewers?

I think you just did.

[+Team Cotati]

Yes.

[+fizzymagic]

That said, I think the caches there should be held to the same standard as elsewhere in the world. Should the caches be brought to the attention of reviewers?

So that perfectly good virtual caches can now be archived and the country can have even fewer caches?

 

I'm sorry. I don't understand. This is a good idea because?

[+Jamie Z]

Here is an example of a virtual in Peru by the same user which was archived by a reviewer a while back for lack of maintenance:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...874ebc68d&log=y

 

Jamie

Edited May 30, 2006 by Jamie Z

[+Renegade Knight]

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[AZcachemeister]

Just so happens I'm headed for Peru next week! Looks as if I can log these with no challenges!

[+Team Teuton]

If there is no one there to vet the emailed answers then it appears that anyone can.

[+The Crazy H Crew]

I bet you were the kid in class who reminded the teacher that she forgot to give out the homework assignment............

 

 

TCHC

[+clearpath]

I bet you were the kid in class who reminded the teacher that she forgot to give out the homework assignment............

 

 

TCHC

Hehehe ... now thats cold (and exactly what I was thinking). I say archive all the caches in Peru and then you'll have no caches to find. Okay, you feel better now?

[+nfa]

to be fair, cleaning-up and archiving those un-maintained virtuals does prevent clutter all over the peruvian landscape...oh wait...no, it doesn't

 

Jamie

Edited May 30, 2006 by NFA

[+nfa]

to be fair, cleaning-up and archiving those un-maintained virtuals does clutter up the peruvian landscape...oh wait...no, it doesn't

 

Jamie

[+Jamie Z]

So, it seems that the opinion of the forum community is that geocaches which don't meet the guidelines are acceptable as long as the area isn't very cache dense. Is that correct?

 

I'm only suggesting that the caches in Peru which don't meet the guidelines be given a look. If the owner is no longer able to maintain them, or has changed a traditional into a virtual because he lives on the other side of the globe, then action should be taken.

 

If I exhibited similar behaviour here at home, my caches would be archived. Why is this different?

 

Jamie

[+VegasCacheHounds]

You seem to have forgotten....you posted in the forums....there will be Angst, no matter what

[+ParrotRobAndCeCe]

I think this is a perfect example of why the Guidelines are GUIDELINES and not RULES. What are they hurting?

[+Miragee]

I have to agree. I found a "cache oddity" on a recent road trip, but rather than post an SBA note, I let the cache be. If it were to be archived, others wouldn't find that remarkable location . . .

[+Polgara]

Estoy apesadumbrado de ver que el escondrijo consigue archivado. Encontré este escondrijo el año pasado, en mi viaje a Perú, mientras que visitaba en Cuzsco. Esta área es un lugar muy significativo a la gente de Cuzsco y a su cultura, su una vergüenza que este escondrijo es no más largo.

 

Para no mencionar, si usted archiva todos que los escondrijos de los hider, usted no tendrá nada a la izquierda en Cuszco, que es una ciudad de la historia incan y arruina....much mucho más interesante que walmart. Digo dejo los escondrijos permanecer, le llevan a algunos sitios maravillosos de la importancia cultural y de la historia de Perú.

Edited June 1, 2006 by Polgara

[+Polgara]

That said, I think the caches there should be held to the same standard as elsewhere in the world. Should the caches be brought to the attention of reviewers?

So that perfectly good virtual caches can now be archived and the country can have even fewer caches?

 

I'm sorry. I don't understand. This is a good idea because?

 

delete, wrong post.

Edited June 1, 2006 by Polgara

[+Polgara]

That said, I think the caches there should be held to the same standard as elsewhere in the world. Should the caches be brought to the attention of reviewers?

So that perfectly good virtual caches can now be archived and the country can have even fewer caches?

 

I'm sorry. I don't understand. This is a good idea because?

 

delete, wrong post.

[+Polgara]

Here is an example of a virtual in Peru by the same user which was archived by a reviewer a while back for lack of maintenance:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...874ebc68d&log=y

 

Jamie

 

I found that cache last July, tried to adopt that cache to avoid archival, but it didn't work.

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

So, it seems that the opinion of the forum community is that geocaches which don't meet the guidelines are acceptable as long as the area isn't very cache dense. Is that correct?

 

I'm only suggesting that the caches in Peru which don't meet the guidelines be given a look. If the owner is no longer able to maintain them, or has changed a traditional into a virtual because he lives on the other side of the globe, then action should be taken.

 

If I exhibited similar behaviour here at home, my caches would be archived. Why is this different?

 

Jamie

 

Alright, it's trite but still true, you must do what YOU think you should do.

I have never been to Peru, and in all honesty I doubt I will ever go so it doesn't matter to me.

If you think they should be archived say so, if not, say so.

 

Hope that helps.

[Cape Cod Cacher]

Estoy apesadumbrado de ver que el escondrijo consigue archivado. Encontré este escondrijo el año pasado, en mi viaje a Perú, mientras que visitaba en Cuzsco. Esta área es un lugar muy significativo a la gente de Cuzsco y a su cultura, su una vergüenza que este escondrijo es no más largo.

 

Para no mencionar, si usted archiva todos que los escondrijos de los hider, usted no tendrá nada a la izquierda en Cuszco, que es una ciudad de la historia incan y arruina....much mucho más interesante que walmart. Digo dejo los escondrijos permanecer, le llevan a algunos sitios maravillosos de la importancia cultural y de la historia de Perú.

 

What he said!

A nice place that is much more senic than a Wal Mart should be left alone.

I bet the virtual is still a real cool place.

Adios, CCC

[+Jamie Z]

Estoy apesadumbrado de ver que el escondrijo consigue archivado. Encontré este escondrijo el año pasado, en mi viaje a Perú, mientras que visitaba en Cuzsco. Esta área es un lugar muy significativo a la gente de Cuzsco y a su cultura, su una vergüenza que este escondrijo es no más largo.

 

Para no mencionar, si usted archiva todos que los escondrijos de los hider, usted no tendrá nada a la izquierda en Cuszco, que es una ciudad de la historia incan y arruina....much mucho más interesante que walmart. Digo dejo los escondrijos permanecer, le llevan a algunos sitios maravillosos de la importancia cultural y de la historia de Perú.

That does not change the fact that the listings do not meet the guidelines. Just because it's a beautiful, historical place doesn't mean it should have an unmaintained cache. Whether the caches are archived before I visit Peru or not, I can still visit Cuszco and see the sights.

 

I'm not *trying* to get the caches archived. Mostly I'm curious about what to do with caches which I encounter which don't meet the guidelines. People place vacation caches, disappear from caching, and what to do with those caches?

 

(Response written in English, because my written Spanish is undecipherable.)

 

Jamie

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

Estoy apesadumbrado de ver que el escondrijo consigue archivado. Encontré este escondrijo el año pasado, en mi viaje a Perú, mientras que visitaba en Cuzsco. Esta área es un lugar muy significativo a la gente de Cuzsco y a su cultura, su una vergüenza que este escondrijo es no más largo.

 

Para no mencionar, si usted archiva todos que los escondrijos de los hider, usted no tendrá nada a la izquierda en Cuszco, que es una ciudad de la historia incan y arruina....much mucho más interesante que walmart. Digo dejo los escondrijos permanecer, le llevan a algunos sitios maravillosos de la importancia cultural y de la historia de Perú.

That does not change the fact that the listings do not meet the guidelines. Just because it's a beautiful, historical place doesn't mean it should have an unmaintained cache. Whether the caches are archived before I visit Peru or not, I can still visit Cuszco and see the sights.

 

I'm not *trying* to get the caches archived. Mostly I'm curious about what to do with caches which I encounter which don't meet the guidelines. People place vacation caches, disappear from caching, and what to do with those caches?

 

(Response written in English, because my written Spanish is undecipherable.)

 

Jamie

 

A few years ago there was a local team (before I even heard of this sport) who hid a lot of good caches.

Then they moved away and nobody is maintaining them now. Whenever a problem is posted about one it is ignored, and if the list grows to long it is archived If one aquires several DNFs the owners, who still cache, simply archive it with the note "Someone else can place one here".

I myself only noticed this a month or so ago when I happened to recheck the cache page of one of the first micros I ever found and saw a long list of DNFs. I did some digging and learned the above. I promptly looked all over town for a magnetic keyholder, intending to replace the cache before they archived it but I was to late.

Now I know they still have several active but unmaintained caches locally. So far they are still in good shape (YaY Ammo boxes) but do they meet the current guidelines, and if not, what would be the advantage to archiving caches that people still enjoy finding? Personally I prefer to leave them in place, and now that I know the situation if another has problems I'll send the owners a note and offer to adopt it at that time.

Sometimes the guidelines are there for just that, to GUIDE, not to command.

Go with your heart young grasshopper.

[+Wacka]

Do people have to be cache cops about caches on another continent, while there are enough here to get you all worked up ?

Edited June 1, 2006 by Wacka

[+Jamie Z]

Do people have to be cache cops about caches on another continent, while there are enough here to get you all worked up ?

Aside from this comment, most replies have made persuasive arguments to let these caches in a cache-poor area slide.

 

That's ok with me, too. I don't have a problem with the caches, aside from they're not being maintained, a big pet peeve of mine. And given the locations, it's not very likely that there are area cachers who can adopt and replace those missing caches.

 

I just wish folks didn't place caches they have no intention of visiting ever again.

 

Jamie

[+WalruZ]

My suggestion would be to visit whichever virtuals you can and verify that the asked-for information is still available. In cases where it is not, put in an SBA. In cases where it is, keep it active even though the owner is not. Or, since you then know the required information, you could request adoption. Perhaps that'll fly.

 

Physicals should be archived if they're missing or 'something'.

Edited June 1, 2006 by WalruZ

[+vespax]

Que Pena!

 

I have found a few of the question (now dead) caches in Peru. They were great to visit and learned from some of them. The traditionals were in good shape for the ones I have found. I did list a DNF for one in Lima though. It was definitly gone.

 

I think having the caches active would help spur locals to cache. I have seen it here, in South Africa, where caching is thriving at the moment. The more caches the better in cache deficient areas.

 

I would even volunteer to adapt some of these virtuals that I have found in Peru if GC would let me. Let me know GC!

[+VegasCacheHounds]

You know, the more I think about this, the more I'll have to agree with Jamie. If these caches don't meet the guidelines, they should be archived. Why break the rules just because they're remote caches?

 

I attempted to find a couple 'vacation' caches on the Yucatan penesula last Fall. They were placed by cachers that claimed that they worked for travel agencies and were in the area all the time, but I doubt it. Why? Because these caches needed maintenace or were just plain gone based off of all the DNFs on simple caches.

 

Now, I also did a couple if Virtual caches down there, and they were quite fun and well done. Much better than a vacation cache. I wish that there could have been an exception left to still be able to place vacation virtual caches in areas that had very little caches, but I understand that a line has been drawn, so I'll get over it

[Keystone]

I would even volunteer to adapt some of these virtuals that I have found in Peru if GC would let me. Let me know GC!

Thanks for your interest. As explained in this summary of the adoption process in the FAQ thread, Geocaching.com will not adopt over a virtual cache to someone else's account. You would need to arrange for a voluntary transfer with the original owner.

[+DeskJocky]

I've wondering if I should do something about the caches in Peru. I was there a little under a year ago and found a few caches. I only found one physical cache. I have looked at the other caches around the country and noticed that most of them where unmaintained caches and thought of SBAing most of them. I did SBA one cache that I attempted and it was archived.

 

Feel free to contact me off the board if you have any questions about Peru....

[+paintfiction]

I think this is a perfect example of why the Guidelines are GUIDELINES and not RULES. What are they hurting?

 

I totally agree. There is a difference!

[+Robespierre]

I think this is a perfect example of why the Guidelines are GUIDELINES and not RULES. What are they hurting?

 

I totally agree. There is a difference!

I think you have an incorrect understanding of guide - lines. Something you stay within, not something to run over.

[+paintfiction]

I think this is a perfect example of why the Guidelines are GUIDELINES and not RULES. What are they hurting?

 

I totally agree. There is a difference!

I think you have an incorrect understanding of guide - lines. Something you stay within, not something to run over.

 

Regarding your insinuation that I ran over the guidelines, I disagree but you are welcome to your opinion.

 

Guidelines IMO are broad and general. Rules are narrow and defined. Rules should not be broken. Guidelines have exceptions and interpretations. Here's an example: The guidelines say "Caches hidden in close proximity to active railroad tracks (are off limits). In general we use a distance of 150 ft but your local area’s trespassing laws may be different. All local laws apply.". So caches within this proximity will not be approved except that becomes a non-issue if there is a suitable barrier that would make it nearly impossible for a cacher to trespass or put themselves in harm's way. Here's another example: The 0.1 mile rule. I have been to several caches that were not grandfathered and were well within the 0.1 limit - why? Because there was an impassable obstacle in between them that effectively made them much more than 0.1 miles apart. In this last case, I recall the caches were about 350' apart but you would have to drive about 5 miles to get from one to the other. In this thread, we are discussing the fact that many of the caches in Peru are well outside of the guidelines for various reasons but maybe should be left in place because of their relative rarity.

 

Jim

 

OT: (my apologies) If you wonder how I apply this same logic to the issues that have been at the boiling point this past week or 2, please check my other posts in some of those threads. I do not want to repeat myself if I can avoid it and would very much like to avoid bringing those other negative issues into yet another forum.

[PCFrog]

IMO....

 

I’m going to stand behind JamieZ on his post. While there might only be a few caches in the area they are not being maintained. I can assume the owner no longer responds to emails on the Virtuals if he’s not been on GC.com in 2.5 years.

 

Regardless of how someone sees it as a guideline or rule they should be archived and removed from the system. The GC.com system was not meant to keep broken, lost and unresponsive listings active just “because”.

 

If you feel that these caches are in great place that should have some notability do what I and others have been told. Utilize Waymarking.com