Looking For Help On Puzzle Caches

[+LabRat40]

Hello all,

I am a very passionate geo cacher who is having difficulty figuring out some of the local cache puzzles. I am looking for people who would enjoy getting together and conversing in person or via email and seeing if we couldn't figure them out together or at least get a different perspective. Any takers leave me a message here or email me at kelly6xs@yahoo.com . Hope to hear from you soon.

[+The Leprechauns]

Hi, I am having difficulty getting to terrain 5 hydrocaches because I do not own a boat, I'm afraid of the water, and I have poor swimming and boating skills. I am looking for someone with a helicopter who can drop me off right next to the caches.

 

I'm *sure* that the finds will feel just as good, even though I had a little help.

[vhs07]

Hi, I am having difficulty getting to terrain 5 hydrocaches because I do not own a boat, I'm afraid of the water, and I have poor swimming and boating skills. I am looking for someone with a helicopter who can drop me off right next to the caches.

 

I'm *sure* that the finds will feel just as good, even though I had a little help.

I dont think that was called for. The last mystery/puzzle cache you logged , you admitted in the log of teaming up with two other cachers to solve. Lots of people hunt in teams or couples. That doesn't make the find any less enjoyable. Puts someone without a caching partner at a disadvantage. Two heads are better than one.

[+The Leprechauns]

I'm entitled to my opinion and you and the OP are entitled to yours. Personally I see a big difference between teaming up with a friend, and ultimately hunting for the physical cache together after the puzzle's solved, vs. advertising in the forums to ask for help from people far away who I am unlikely to ever meet.

[+Team Neos]

Indeed, it was terribly unfair.

 

Not everyone is naturally gifted at puzzles. The original poster did not say "Hey, email me the solutions" they asked for someone to brainstorm with them. That is a great way to learn how develop the kind of thinking skills that are needed to solve puzzles.

[+kklems]

Hi, I am having difficulty getting to terrain 5 hydrocaches because I do not own a boat, I'm afraid of the water, and I have poor swimming and boating skills. I am looking for someone with a helicopter who can drop me off right next to the caches.

 

I'm *sure* that the finds will feel just as good, even though I had a little help.

 

There is nothing wrong with asking for a little clue or help with some difficult puzzles. Look at some of the cache logs where whole groups of people get together to look for a difficult cache and than when one find its they all log it as a find. ie shelter, no clue for you, etc. Logs reference thank you's all the time to other cachers for their help on caches. No one seems to have a problem with that. I also notice that you cache with a partner (Although the younger member is only 12 it is still someone to help find cache, solve puzzles etc) which means you don't find your finds alone either. To each their own.

 

OP never asks to be given the answers, she just asked for people interested in getting together to work on the puzzles. Editing myself for civility.

 

OP try the Northwest region forums on this board or http://idahogeocachers.org/ (link says it all) and that should help you get in touch with some area cachers. Another option is to try to attend an event in the area and introduce yourself to group. With CITO Day coming up there is probably a few events scheduled for your state. Hope that helps.

 

I feel better now......

[+The Leprechauns]

Indeed, it was terribly unfair.

 

Not everyone is naturally gifted at puzzles. The original poster did not say "Hey, email me the solutions" they asked for someone to brainstorm with them. That is a great way to learn how develop the kind of thinking skills that are needed to solve puzzles.

There's nothing unfair about holding a contrary opinion about a geocaching practice. I am not gifted at puzzles, so I generally choose to skip puzzles that I cannot solve, or make a contribution to solving with the group I'm hiking with. I've altered group itineraries for that reason. "Could we skip that one? I suck at math and don't have a clue where to begin." I would rather experience the cache as the owner intended. It's the same reason I nearly never use the "phone a friend" option. If I could not climb a mountain, I would choose to skip caches at the tops of mountains.

[+Mopar]

Not everyone is naturally gifted at puzzles.

And I cant/wont repel down a cliff. Some people cant hike long distances. There is no rule that says every person can do every cache, plain and simple. If you can't do the cache, you can't do it. No shame in that.

 

There is nothing wrong with asking for a little clue or help with some difficult puzzles. Look at some of the cache logs where whole groups of people get together to look for a difficult cache and than when one find its they all log it as a find. ie shelter, no clue for you, etc. Logs reference thank you's all the time to other cachers for their help on caches. No one seems to have a problem with that.

Actually lots of other cachers do indeed have a problem with those things.

 

I also notice that you cache with a partner (Although the younger member is only 12 it is still someone to help find cache, solve puzzles etc) which means you don't find your finds alone either. To each their own.

I usually cache with a partner, and I most certainly find the caches on my own. Many a time one of us has spotted the cache and then waited another 30-45 minutes or more until the other person(s) found the cache on their own.

Having cached with Lep a few times myself, I know he is usually the same way.

[+Ed & Julie]

Indeed, it was terribly unfair.

 

Not everyone is naturally gifted at puzzles. The original poster did not say "Hey, email me the solutions" they asked for someone to brainstorm with them. That is a great way to learn how develop the kind of thinking skills that are needed to solve puzzles.

There's nothing unfair about holding a contrary opinion about a geocaching practice. I am not gifted at puzzles, so I generally choose to skip puzzles that I cannot solve, or make a contribution to solving with the group I'm hiking with. I've altered group itineraries for that reason. "Could we skip that one? I suck at math and don't have a clue where to begin." I would rather experience the cache as the owner intended. It's the same reason I nearly never use the "phone a friend" option. If I could not climb a mountain, I would choose to skip caches at the tops of mountains.

 

It must be "beat up a leprechuan night".

 

Do the puzzle cache's description specifically state "single cachers only. NO HELP"???

Who says you cannot get help with a puzzle? Has the cache owner specifically stated groups and teams are nt allowed?

You state you dislike puzzle caches and chose to ignore them...so why get all bent outta shape over someone who is asking for help when it aint even your cache?

 

Ed

 

Ed

[+badlands]

As long as you state in your log entry that you had help (and how much if it was significant), I don't see the harm. Just don't take credit where it's not due as this takes away from the effort of other cachers that did figure it out without help.

[+The Leprechauns]

It must be "beat up a leprechuan night".

No it isn't. It's "beat up on a leprechaun's opinion night." There is a big difference. I have nothing against monkeygirl54, either.

 

Or maybe it's how I chose to illustrate my point, through a sharp analogy. Others are better at that. Here is a thread of that type by a grand master.

 

Look at it this way: the longer we keep bumping this thread to debate the practice of getting long distance help on puzzle caches, the more offers of assistance the OP is likely to receive.

[+kklems]

Not everyone is naturally gifted at puzzles.

And I cant/wont repel down a cliff. Some people cant hike long distances. There is no rule that says every person can do every cache, plain and simple. If you can't do the cache, you can't do it. No shame in that.

 

Also no shame in asking for help in doing something

 

 

There is nothing wrong with asking for a little clue or help with some difficult puzzles. Look at some of the cache logs where whole groups of people get together to look for a difficult cache and than when one find its they all log it as a find. ie shelter, no clue for you, etc. Logs reference thank you's all the time to other cachers for their help on caches. No one seems to have a problem with that.

Actually lots of other cachers do indeed have a problem with those things.

 

I don't recall anyone speaking out in those logs to that fact but so be it. When you make a generalization there will be exceptions

 

I also notice that you cache with a partner (Although the younger member is only 12 it is still someone to help find cache, solve puzzles etc) which means you don't find your finds alone either. To each their own.

I usually cache with a partner, and I most certainly find the caches on my own. Many a time one of us has spotted the cache and then waited another 30-45 minutes or more until the other person(s) found the cache on their own.

Having cached with Lep a few times myself, I know he is usually the same way.

I don't know you or lep and I don't care how you choose to cache. That is your decision. This is a game and we all play it the way we want. (Still two people caching together have an advantage over one because they can cover more area and it isn't hard to notice where someone is focusing their search.) For that matter lep doesn't know the op either so I don't think he can make any assumptions about her intentions. Her request while probably in the wrong spot seemed reasonable to me.

[+kklems]

Indeed, it was terribly unfair.

 

Not everyone is naturally gifted at puzzles. The original poster did not say "Hey, email me the solutions" they asked for someone to brainstorm with them. That is a great way to learn how develop the kind of thinking skills that are needed to solve puzzles.

There's nothing unfair about holding a contrary opinion about a geocaching practice. I am not gifted at puzzles, so I generally choose to skip puzzles that I cannot solve, or make a contribution to solving with the group I'm hiking with. I've altered group itineraries for that reason. "Could we skip that one? I suck at math and don't have a clue where to begin." I would rather experience the cache as the owner intended. It's the same reason I nearly never use the "phone a friend" option. If I could not climb a mountain, I would choose to skip caches at the tops of mountains.

 

The downside to that though is that you might be missing a wonderful caching experience. We all have areas we are are good at and areas we are bad at and asking for some help in aspects of our lives that we have a hard time with is perfectably acceptable. Even a small clue can set bells off and let you solve a 5 puzzle without further help.

 

Anyway this topic has been beat to death so I have said my peace.

[+Henki]

I see nothing wrong with brainstorming on puzzle caches. I've actually been looking at puzzle caches around the country, that I'll probably never get a chance to find, just to see if I can solve some of the puzzles.

 

 

If the puzzles you're talking about are Skin Guy's, I'm afraid I have no help to offer. Those have left me scratching my head and wondering how in the world anyone's figured them out! I'm still willing to try, though, so if you want to e-mail me, I'll do my best!

[nobby.nobbs]

cool down folks it's only a game. and we all play by our own rules.

 

help was asked for not an opinion on whether that help was ethical.

[+Jennifla]

I have no problem with people working together to solve puzzles. What gets me is when people call or email the owner for hints or help. Of course, I only know this because they write it in their logs, but still! For myself, if I can't figure it out (or if I don't have the boat, helicopter, ladder, or scuba gear) I won't go for it.

[+vds]

I have no problem with people working together to solve puzzles. What gets me is when people call or email the owner for hints or help. Of course, I only know this because they write it in their logs, but still! For myself, if I can't figure it out (or if I don't have the boat, helicopter, ladder, or scuba gear) I won't go for it.

 

Good for you.

 

Also good for others that some hiders enjoy helping others along so they see the light too.

 

Play any way you want to, just don't try to impose how you play on others please.

[+Mushroom Doom]

<personal attack removed>

Edited April 15, 2006 by Quiggle

[+BadAndy]

Hello all,

I am a very passionate geo cacher who is having difficulty figuring out some of the local cache puzzles. I am looking for people who would enjoy getting together and conversing in person or via email and seeing if we couldn't figure them out together or at least get a different perspective. Any takers leave me a message here or email me at kelly6xs@yahoo.com . Hope to hear from you soon.

 

Monkeygirl,

Pay no attention to the bickering forum junkies.

 

Check out www.idahogeocachers.org We often hold pizza parties at Idaho Pizza on Kimberly road to work out those Skinguy puzzles and you're most welcome to join us. We usually post them on the IGO site under the Magic Valley subforum. Skinguy usually attends and tosses us bones if we get in too deep. The meetings (if a puzzle is solved) are followed by a night trip to the cache in question.

 

See you there!!

[+pfalstad]

Or maybe it's how I chose to illustrate my point, through a sharp analogy.

You mean with the sarcasm? Ya think?

[+LabRat40]

Well I apologize for troubling everyone on this matter. I thought it woud be a good idea to try and get a few brains together to see if we could help each other see the light on some of the puzzle caches. Apparently I am not allowed to do such a thing. I was hoping to meet some friends that we could enjoy the sport together from time to time. Sorry to have upset the little green guy so much. I won't post to the forum again and just try to muck my way through them. Once again sorry to have troubled everyone, just looking for folks who enjoy getting together and figuring out a difficult one together and going for the fun from there. I thought this was the place to do that. Sorry.

[+Adrenalynn]

Well I apologize for troubling everyone on this matter. I thought it woud be a good idea to try and get a few brains together to see if we could help each other see the light on some of the puzzle caches. Apparently I am not allowed to do such a thing. I was hoping to meet some friends that we could enjoy the sport together from time to time. Sorry to have upset the little green guy so much. I won't post to the forum again and just try to muck my way through them. Once again sorry to have troubled everyone, just looking for folks who enjoy getting together and figuring out a difficult one together and going for the fun from there. I thought this was the place to do that. Sorry.

 

[edit] I'd be more than happy to help - All things considered, as soon as I get home today, I'll put up a phpbb or smf forum for the express purpose of facilitating what you suggest, Monkeygirl!

 

adrenalynn [atsign] sonotthedrama.net

 

I'd be of most help in math-based puzzles, since that was my major (MS Math/MS CompSci), and my thesis (and first few jobs) was on Crypto.

Edited April 15, 2006 by Adrenalynn

[+Quiggle]

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[+Adrenalynn]

Ok, Quiggle. I'll bite.

 

Please tell us EXACTLY why my post was moderated, and The Leprechauns' was not? I'd like to know precisely how much of that rude obnoxiousness to a simple suggestion is acceptable.

Edited April 15, 2006 by Adrenalynn

[+JohnnyVegas]

It must be "beat up a leprechuan night".

Well after seeing those Leprechuan movies years ago some people just lose control around Leprechuans.

 

Adrenalynn, if you start hanging out in the forums you will have a tough time finding more than two caches a day

[+Adrenalynn]

It must be "beat up a leprechuan night".

Well after seeing those Leprechuan movies years ago some people just lose control around Leprechuans.

 

Adrenalynn, if you start hanging out in the forums you will have a tough time finding more than two caches a day

 

Not if I hang out in the forums in the wee hours waiting to pounce on the FTFs so you can't...

[+JohnnyVegas]

HA!!!

[+lightnsound]

Looks to me like a nice person asked a simple question. For that, she was immediately and unfairly attacked. Now she's too uncomfortable to ever post here again. So much for the nice-warm-fuzzy-family feeling of geocaching.

 

I realize that there is always a bit of sarcasm and jabbing in the forums. When this is friendly banter between members who already know each other to some degree, it's okay. When we blindside someone new with a rude comment that does not answer their question, nothing productive or positive is happening. Yes, everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but not entitled to it shove on someone who never asked for it.

 

When in forums, chats, or writing emails, I never say anything that I wouldn't say to that persons face. It's easy to be offensive online, you don't have to look in anyone's eyes.

 

I usually find the forums to be informative and entertaining, but not today. I don't think that rudeness should be acceptable. Not from any member or moderator.

 

I hope that Monkeygirl knows that not all geocachers are the same.

 

Thanks for letting me rant. I feel better now.

[+Miragee]

Very well said. I agree completely.

 

Since I have a terrible time figuring out puzzle caches, I would love the opportunity to get together with other cachers to brainstorm and get solution ideas.

 

To figure out puzzle cahes, husbands help wives, wives help husbands, friends help friends. Why can't other cachers get together to help other cachers? Seems like a great way to make new caching friends.

 

I think monkeygirl54's request was a reasonable one. I was surprised that a new person to the Forums was treated with such derision.

[+BadAndy]

Hi, I am having difficulty getting to terrain 5 hydrocaches because I do not own a boat, I'm afraid of the water, and I have poor swimming and boating skills. I am looking for someone with a helicopter who can drop me off right next to the caches.

 

I'm *sure* that the finds will feel just as good, even though I had a little help.

 

A more accurate analogist reply without the rudeness and bullying would have read...

 

"Hi, I'm a very passionate geocacher, but I am having difficulty getting to terrain 5 hydrocaches because I do not own a boat. While I can't swim nor operate a boat, I'm not afraid of the water and would like to give it a shot. I am looking for someone with a boat that knows how to use it to partner with and find these caches together. "

 

 

Monkeygirl lives in my community. I'll be sure to give her a proper welcome.

[+Team Neos]

Good for you, BadAndy.

 

I admire Monkeygirl. Unlike some of us, she has decided to try to gain new skills and talents so that she can enjoy another type of puzzle. I see nothing wrong with that, or in the type of help she asked for. I like your analogy, BadAndy. I see it that way too. All she did was to ask for someone to help her learn to be good at puzzles. Why in the world would anyone object to that or try to discourage her?

[+Gorak]

Go for it, Monkeygirl. There is absolutely nothing wrong with getting together with some other cachers to collaborate on a puzzle cache. What is wrong is the disrespectful reply you recieved from one of the site's moderaters using his non-moderating account.

 

IMHO, your question was a perfectly valid request for information and did not deserve a sarcastic reply from someone who whose job it is to ensure that others adhere to the posting guidelines. Everyone plays the game differently and, the last time I checked, there was nothing in "the rules" that says you can't solve puzzles or hunt caches in teams. People do it all the time so don't be swayed by any curmudgeons who feel everyone should play this game their way. In fact, play the game any way you want. The only enforcable rules are the cache placement rules. When it comes to finding and logging caches you are free to do it any way you like, regardless of what anyone else thinks. The main thing is that you have fun doing it.

[salmoned]

...In fact, play the game any way you want. The only enforcable rules are the cache placement rules. When it comes to finding and logging caches you are free to do it any way you like, regardless of what anyone else thinks. The main thing is that you have fun doing it.

 

Well actually, you must comply with the cache owner's policy to maintain an e-log on the cache listing, else the owner may remove it. Teamwork isn't cheating, neither are casual finds (those you happen to find without seeking). However, not all cache owners approve.

 

As for having fun, that's not what it's all about for everyone. I cache as part of my search for ultimate truth, and it ain't always fun.

[+Jones_Crew]

It would be really nice to have some help sometimes. I have been emailed hints before ... NOT "You will find the cache under the bench next to the trail right at the spot that the trail turns to the left." No shame in that...if you try and are stuck you ask for help. That is how we learn. I am stuck right now on three puzzles. I have logged them all as DNFs and will keep working on them and WILL get them eventually. I may receive a hint, but that is how you can learn to tackle the next one. I have yet to find a group to get together with in my area, and I feel like a newbie still. I just don't know if I would be welcomed into the group. Negative attitudes sure don't make me any more eager to try and go to events! Oh well...maybe I will get an invite too. Hang in there Monkeygirl and good luck with the hunts!

[+ganlet]

Looks to me like a nice person asked a simple question. For that, she was immediately and unfairly attacked. Now she's too uncomfortable to ever post here again. So much for the nice-warm-fuzzy-family feeling of geocaching.

 

I realize that there is always a bit of sarcasm and jabbing in the forums. When this is friendly banter between members who already know each other to some degree, it's okay. When we blindside someone new with a rude comment that does not answer their question, nothing productive or positive is happening. Yes, everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but not entitled to it shove on someone who never asked for it.

 

When in forums, chats, or writing emails, I never say anything that I wouldn't say to that persons face. It's easy to be offensive online, you don't have to look in anyone's eyes.

 

I usually find the forums to be informative and entertaining, but not today. I don't think that rudeness should be acceptable. Not from any member or moderator.

 

I hope that Monkeygirl knows that not all geocachers are the same.

 

Thanks for letting me rant. I feel better now.

 

Ok first off I am a newbie as far as geocaching goes. I dont know this forum very well nor its moderators. Havin said that I have been part of countless forums and IRC channels since as long as I can remember. I agree that monkeygirl didnt deserve the attack that she received but what I find most distasteful is the one who made the comment was a moderator. moderators exist to keep forums civil and organized. They typically should be the ones offering help. Please dont take this as me saying they shouldnt have their own opinion but monkeygirl wasnt asking for an opinion on whether she was doing something good or bad, she just wanted help. if you didnt want to give her any then dont.

 

As far as my beliefs on it (once again im a newbie) I have no problem seeing people being helped on things as long as they note it in their log. I geocache with someone but every time, I log who I was with.

 

I enjoy forums because they allow a window into a specific culture. To see a moderator make negative comment towards a new member is distasteful. thats just me

[where the wild things are]

To see a moderator make negative comment towards a new member is distasteful. thats just me

 

That's me too. To me, the moderators first comment came across as sarcastic and cruel. I feel it was unwarranted and inappropriate.

 

I can only imagine that it must have been upsetting to Monkeygirl and I know it was to me. Monkeygirl, all I can say is that I am sorry you were treated like that.

 

The moderator gave the comparison between him and Criminal in an attempt to justify his behavior. The difference is: Ones tag is 'charter throbbing member' the others is MODERATOR. I believe there is a different set of expectations of the two. The moderators job is to make sure everyone plays nice, not sucker punch the first unsuspecting person that asks a question.

[nobby.nobbs]

i only hope that the they have had the decncy to email direct and apologise for their comments and to invite them to return to the forums.

 

it would be a shame to discourage a newbie with a few ill advised and , hopefully, misinterpretted/ill conceaved words.

 

do the decent thing.

[+Quiggle]

Please keep the thread on-topic. If you have a complaint about the site or one of its volunteers, the Forum Guidelines address that as well.

 

Thank you.

[+Zzyzx Road]

I had difficulty with a local puzzle cache just this weekend. The area from where the information would be gathered is quite familiar to me, and I had no problem finding the correct numbers needed. The problem I had was in plugging them into the puzzle to find the final coords of the cache. The owner left his phone # in the description/notes for someone who has a problem, just in case he didn't figure it out well enough I guess. I called him out of desparation, and he VERY graciously came to the area to help me out. (This was Easer Sunday, mind you, raining, and he showed up in a suit like he had just come from church and was headed out to a family dinner!)

He checked my answers and we determined that I had the correct info. We also determined that the monochrome Palm I was using instead of a color printout was keeping me from selecting the correct digits to plug into the puzzle. So he allowed me to follow him to the final coords (which by logical placement, I plugged into my GPS - And it went off as we were parking) which was his house. I was the FTF on a puzzle that I had solved, despite my non-color help.

He asked that I make a note of that in my log for the cache for others that may also run into the same problem that I had...

Now, I contacted the owner, but I also solved his little puzzle AND we worked out a potential problem with his cache description that I certainly would never have considered!