Additional Waypoints

[+Markwell]

I don't see anything to associate this waypoint with the parent cache.  So, when I import this into GSAK, nothing tells me the cache this waypoint is part of.  It just shows up as a random waypoint.  Can a link to the parent cache be included in the GPX file?

<name>CCRYWY</name>

 

It looks to me like this is associated with GCRYWY. If GSAK doesn't know that then its a problem with GSAK, not the website.

I wasn't sure that this was necessarily the case, until I looked at one of MY waypoints in GPX format...

 

<wpt lat="41.8168666666667" lon="-88.14595">
   <time>2006-01-30T14:00:37.8370000-08:00</time>
   <name>M3B660</name>
   <cmt>Marker 3</cmt>
   <desc>Stage 3</desc>
   <url>http://www.geocaching.com/seek/wpt.aspx?WID=fa2650d2-7c75-4414-adc4-90020c263262</url>
   <urlname>Stage 3</urlname>
   <sym>Stages of a Multicache</sym>
   <type>Waypoint|Stages of a Multicache</type>
 </wpt>

 

This is for a waypoint on GCB660, specifically the third stage. On the cache page it says...

Prefix: M3

Lookup: S3B660

Name: Stage 3 (Stages of a Multicache)

Coordinate: N 41° 49.012 W 088° 08.757

 

OK - so the prefix gets appended to the four-digit character that represents the cache. Great. What's the "Lookup" for then? And why is that limited to a 6 digit code? When I researched this thread, I found that Pasha asked this question at the beginning of this thread and Jeremy responded...

That's right. It doesn't now. I put it in there to provide a future option for geocachers to use that instead of the prefix + GC code. So it is kind of unusable now.

 

I guess I was mislead by this text:

A lookup code is a 6 digit (or less) code to describe the waypoint. It is normally saved to the GPS as the name for your waypoint. STAGE1 or FINAL are good names for the lookup code. The codes in the collection should be unique.

 

I think this needs to be clearer...

A lookup code is a 6 digit (or less) code to describe the waypoint. It is normally saved to the GPS as the name for your waypoint. In the future, Geocaching.com may use this as the name for your waypoint when saving to the GPS, but for now it should just be unique for this set. STAGE1 or FINAL are good names for the lookup code. The codes in the collection should be unique.

[+rutson]

...the word trailhead means absolutely nothing to me ...

Come to think of it - to me neither.

 

Could it be an American word only?

Just checked, it's not in my English Dictionary.

[+Lil Devil]

...the word trailhead means absolutely nothing to me ...

Come to think of it - to me neither.

 

Could it be an American word only?

Just checked, it's not in my English Dictionary.

What else would you call the place where a trail begins?

[+wavector]

I have several caches that could really use a Waypoint category that is general. I could probaby use a General Waypoint at every cache.

In this cache I had to use the Stages waypoint type to tell geocachers where they can find an information sign about the Canada Goose, it is just a POI and related to the actual cache but they don't need to go there.

In this cache I want to send people a few miles north to see a really cool giant stone frog in the middle of...well....nowhere, really, just nowhere. You would not go to this location for any other reason but every geocacher who goes there and sees the frog will say "WOW, ain't that sumthin". This would be a "If you have the time Waypoint" or just a General Waypoint. Finally in this cache I would like to send people over there ---> to look at a big rock with a plaque honouring the local resident who made the park possible through his years of care and dedication.

These waypoints are not needed to find the cache nor are they super helpful, they are just interesting nearby points that are relevant or fun.

 

So can we have just a plain old POI waypoint ?

 

Thanks

[+Hynr]

I would find that useful as well.

[markandlynn]

...the word trailhead means absolutely nothing to me ...

Come to think of it - to me neither.

 

Could it be an American word only?

Just checked, it's not in my English Dictionary.

What else would you call the place where a trail begins?

Hmm that confirms it its american

The American Heritage

In the Uk they are called public footpaths and we have signs saying puplic footpath with nice pointy bits pointing the correct way.

A quick google will give you lots on public rights of way in the UK.

If you go to ordnance survey's website it has all of these in the UK mapped out. Not a single mention of trails etc.

Separated by a common language as they say

[+tozainamboku]

...the word trailhead means absolutely nothing to me ...

Come to think of it - to me neither.

 

Could it be an American word only?

Just checked, it's not in my English Dictionary.

What else would you call the place where a trail begins?

Hmm that confirms it its american

The American Heritage

In the Uk they are called public footpaths and we have signs saying puplic footpath with nice pointy bits pointing the correct way.

A quick google will give you lots on public rights of way in the UK.

If you go to ordnance survey's website it has all of these in the UK mapped out. Not a single mention of trails etc.

Separated by a common language as they say

I just typed 'Waymarking' into Google and after the listing for the Waymarking.com site the next several entries were in reference to signage that is used to mark public rights-of-way in the UK and Australia. Seems if we were to use the Queen's English the additional waypoints should be waymarks.

Edited February 3, 2006 by tozainamboku

[+The Leprechauns]

I just typed 'Waymarking' into Google and after the listing for the Waymarking.com site the next several entries were in reference to signage that is used to mark public rights-of-way in the UK and Australia. Seems if we were to use the Queen's English the additional waypoints should be waymarks.

It wasn't publicized very much, but Groundspeak sued the Queen for copyright infringement for the term "waymarks." The case was settled. Terms weren't disclosed, but if you look at Signal's webpage, he is now referring to himself as "Sir Signal of Frog, K.B.E., Viscount of the Lily Pad."

[+ODragon]

Would it be possible to add more info to the pages like what cache it is referring to?

 

Example doesn't tell me what cache it's in reference to...

 

Sometimes when using external programs I have extra waypoints but don't necessarily know what cache they're related to.

[markandlynn]

Would it be possible to add more info to the pages like what cache it is referring to?

 

Example doesn't tell me what cache it's in reference to...

 

Sometimes when using external programs I have extra waypoints but don't necessarily know what cache they're related to.

 

Like this maybe ?.

I waited a while to see what came through and what i didn't like before naming my additional waypoints.

I have for now put these in an external database.

It is semi amusing the number of extra waypoints i now have just named parking of course the code after the GC is still there but i think this method makes it a tiny bit easier to associate them.

[kah731]

Okay - based on the discussion here, I have come to some conclusions:

 

Originally I was going with the PK-(4-unique-digits-of-geocache) for parking, and the like. But I have one of those old 6 character GPSr units. When I was out this past weekend, I decided to add my travel and parking waypoints starting with the 4-unique-digits-of-geocache, followed by a number for travel, and a P for parking.

This will put all the non-cache entries together in another section of my GPSr, all put together.

For example, I just changed the parking coordinate for

GCT82M

From PKT82M to T82MPK

 

Second, I will add a reference to the original geocache in the description of the waypoint (at least until that is automatic on the sub-page).

 

An additional suggestion (I think it has been suggested before) for the waypoint detail page - a download coordinates button.

 

Thanks! Keith Mr. WitzAbout (WitzAbout is now a premium ID )

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

It's been mentioned in several posts, and Jeremy even came up with a suggested name (which works for me), no mention of it actually being implemented.

 

Will there be an additional type of waypoint for Points of Interest, or Trail Marker, etc?

 

In a recent cache of mine, I used the Multicache Stage choice for trail junctions (one is a very faint trail that would probably be missed). I am afraid I am confusing cachers with the "Stages of a Multicache" choice.

[+ODragon]

 

Like this maybe ?

 

Yes, exactly like that... just automatically so I don't have to work so hard to get to the cache page. (Not a dig at how you do it, that's an intelligent way and better than nothing that shows up automatically!)

[+OzGuff]

I can certainly remove the final coordinates for caches you own from showing up in GPX file downloads. However I felt that as the owner you should be able to get them.

 

To reduce confusion should I simply remove them entirely?

 

No one gets them except the owner when downloading them individually from a cache listing. This is just to clarify.

 

So the GPX files generated by PQs will NOT show hidden coordinates? To get them as an owner you will have to download them individually from a cache listing?

 

Crap! As the owner of a high number of caches, many with hidden coordinates, my life would be much easier if the coordinates showed on GPX files. And the fact that the hidden coordinates show as separate "caches" on the GPX download just makes my PDA more cluttered.

 

I would definitely vote FOR the inclusion of hidden coordinates in GPX file downloads initiated by the cache owner!

[+Geofellas]

I think this needs to be clearer...

A lookup code is a 6 digit (or less) code to describe the waypoint. It is normally saved to the GPS as the name for your waypoint. In the future, Geocaching.com may use this as the name for your waypoint when saving to the GPS, but for now it should just be unique for this set. STAGE1 or FINAL are good names for the lookup code. The codes in the collection should be unique.

 

I just had to trawl through 4 pages of this thread to find this suggestion - which was the reason I was looking here in the first place since I was confused by the description on the web page.

 

I therefore second this proposal

 

Thanks

[+Pepper]

oops never mind I found what I needed from kah731 post.

 

thanks

 

Pepper

Edited February 22, 2006 by Pepper

[Jeremy]

I made Markwell's textual change today. Thanks Markwell!

 

IMO, Points of Interest are better left on Waymarking.com though I can see there could be a use for a generic "other" waypoint type. Any suggestions?

[+WitzAbout]

Just offhand I can think of a use for other - a waypoint that would be used for bearing/distance. Thus it might not be a place you have to go, just triangulate from, or navigate based on the coordinate.

 

A couple of quick additional notes on waypoints, if I may:

1) The 'Additional Waypoints' heading shows up on a cache if any waypoints are entered - even if all the waypoints are hidden. That means there is heading with no details below in some cases.

As an example, I just created a hidden waypoint on my event that has past:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=GCT3CF

2) I would suggest that the 'Additional Waypoints' section on a cache page should be moved down one section below 'Additional Hints'. To me, additional hints is a 3rd type of description, and should be just below the long description.

 

Thanks! Keith aka Mr.WitzAbout

 

"other" waypoint type. Any suggestions

Edited March 9, 2006 by WitzAbout

[Jeremy]

so, a "Reference Point" type?

 

Good suggestions. I made both of them on the development box, removing the heading if the only available waypoints are hidden.

[+caderoux]

I made Markwell's textual change today. Thanks Markwell!

 

IMO, Points of Interest are better left on Waymarking.com though I can see there could be a use for a generic "other" waypoint type. Any suggestions?

Cool, will there be a way to add links to the waymarks which are relevent to a particular cache?

[Jeremy]

We hope to integrate the sites better in the future. No doubt you'll be able to link waymarks to caches, waypoints, etc.

[+Jiheffe]

so, a "Reference Point" type?

 

Good suggestions. I made both of them on the development box

Sorry for insisting, but I would stick to my initial suggestion a "Misc." category. This would simply cover all other situations where its neither a Parking, a Trailhaid, or an Intermediate Waypoint. Such as the projection example given above.

 

I have a couple of caches that would benefit from this feature in different ways:

• In Eau à tous les étages (Retour aux sources 3), I use such a waypoint to indicate a suggested return path
  
• In Waterloo 1815, I use them to signal historical places that might interest people, yet are not mandotory to find the cache
  

Thanks!

[Jeremy]

Is not a reference point a miscellaneous point?

[+WitzAbout]

so, a "Reference Point" type?

 

Good suggestions. I made both of them on the development box, removing the heading if the only available waypoints are hidden.

 

Yes - I'd say it would be a reference point or reference coordiante - 'reference point' is less of a mouthful

 

Thanks for taking the suggestions!

[+mrducky]

I'd like to see the usual links to mapping services on the additional waypoints detail page.

 

I'll put in my vote for this too.

[+Jiheffe]

Sorry for the late answer... Though I have email notifications enabled, I didn't receive any, so I though there was no activity in this thread

Is not a reference point a miscellaneous point?

Yep! But a misc. point is not neccessarily a Reference point Just thought "miscellaneous" would be more general and could cover whatever does not fall in one of the other categories. But then, I'm not native english speaking, so I might be missing a point here? Edited March 20, 2006 by Jiheffe

[Jeremy]

Sorry for the late answer... Thought I have enabled email notifications, I didn't receive any, so I though there was no activity in this thread

Is not a reference point a miscellaneous point?

Yep! But a misc. point is not neccessarily a Reference point Just thought "miscellaneous" would be more general and could cover whatever does not fall in one of the other categories. But then, I'm not native english speaking, so I might be missing a point here?

 

That's true but you shouldn't be sticking waypoints on a cache page just for a heck of it. Misc doesn't tell you anything about a point. I'd rather have types that at least offer you some information about why the point is useful.

[+Jiheffe]

I was probably mislead because you suggested "Reference Point" in reply to a post where there was made reference to some "waypoint that would be used for bearing/distance". I saw your suggestion as focused on that "bearing/distance" thing.

 

But re-reading the whole thread, i'm certainly not going to argue on the term. The important thing for me is to have some category where I can document coordinates that are not needed to find the cache, yet are worthwhile to be communicated (E.g. historical places, suggested return path)!

 

Thanks a lot for all the good stuff!

[Jeremy]

The important thing for me is to have some category where I can document coordinates that are not needed to find the cache, yet are worthwhile to be communicated (E.g. historical places, suggested return path)!

 

That would be more Waymarking.com specific, so I don't think it would be good to duplicate the effort going on at that web site. Once we allow sharing of waypoints between sites you will be able to select waymarks from the list that you wish to point out to the geocacher.

[+Jiheffe]

That would be more Waymarking.com specific, so I don't think it would be good to duplicate the effort going on at that web site. Once we allow sharing of waypoints between sites you will be able to select waymarks from the list that you wish to point out to the geocacher.

That would be great for example in my above mentionned cache, Waterloo 1815, for the additional WPs "AIGLE" and "HOUGOU".

 

But when it's simply a couple of coordinates to indicate a eturn path, putting them as Waymarks would not have much value...

[+Ellteejak]

I am trying to generate further discussion on this. Google map seems to be keeping locations (business addresses and the coordinate cross reference) up to date.

 

The GOOGLE MAP tool (combined with GOOGLE itself) has

the ability to search for a specific address, and

translate the coordinates into a POI or Waypoint.

 

Look at this brief note a few messages down in this

discussion.

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...3entry2105223

 

What if there was a tool to search for all

"Restaurants" (or bars, or pubs, or theatres, or

malls in your town -- or maybe your zipcode, or maybe

your zipcode and others within 10 miles of your

zipcode) and download the name, address, phone number,

and coordinates into a *.GPX file (or something

equivalent). Then the POIs could be given a category

to be used with a GPS for directions.

 

Sort of an active, updated POI generation tool.

 

Maybe the tool could be linked to the advanced (payed

version) of GOOGLE EARTH that way the GOOGLE folks get

a revenue from the tool, and would not be likely to

try to stop the tool (as it uses their paid tool).

 

What do you think? I emailed a few people to see if they could direct me to others that might be in pursuit of this goal of a group POI/waypoint tool using existing business addresses.

 

Kevin

Wallingford, Connecticut

[+PDOP's]

I'd like to see the usual links to mapping services on the additional waypoints detail page.

 

Thanks.

That's a very good idea.

 

Bump I'd like to see this too especially for Parking waypoints

[+PDOP's]

Is there a limit to the number of waypoits that can be added to a single cache?

 

Just reviewed this whole thread and didn't see an answer for this.

[+Mr. Speedy]

I'd like to see the usual links to mapping services on the additional waypoints detail page.

 

Thanks.

That's a very good idea.

 

Bump I'd like to see this too especially for Parking waypoints

I second that. I would like to see that feature implemented and it would be really nice to be able to map all the waypoint on the same map. I know that Google Map support multiple waypoint mapping. That would be a good use of it.

 

Please, please, make it happen!

Edited March 30, 2006 by Mr. Speedy's parade

[+WitzAbout]

Sorry to beat a dead horse - but on the topic of a misc waypoint...

I went to add the coordinates for a pre-event lunch meeting place to my CITO - and didn't know which catagory to put it under. I wound up picking 'stages of a multicache' - not a very good match, but it would have to do. I alway put in descriptions, so having a misc catagory would have been useful in this case as well. Just another thing to chew on

 

That's true but you shouldn't be sticking waypoints on a cache page just for a heck of it. Misc doesn't tell you anything about a point. I'd rather have types that at least offer you some information about why the point is useful.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

 

That's true but you shouldn't be sticking waypoints on a cache page just for a heck of it. Misc doesn't tell you anything about a point. I'd rather have types that at least offer you some information about why the point is useful.

 

But are we going to have a generic "Trail" waypoint (or whatever you want to call it), for pointing out key intersections and the like? I hate using Multi or Trailhead for anythign than what they were intended for.

[Jeremy]

I think reference point is still a viable idea. We'll have to come up with an icon for it.

[+Lil Devil]

How about a compass rose?

[+Kryten]

Attempting to control the presence of spurious waypoints on cache pages by maintaining a fixed set of categories will only result in abuse as peaple force waypoints into categories where they don't belong. Also each time you add a new category, somebody will come up with yet another.

 

Example "avoid" waypoints. The location of cliffs, uncovered wells, quicksand, muggle houses etc.

 

Rather than try to predict all of the possible reasons why people may wish to include a waypoint on their cache pages, give them a generic "other" category and let them explain themselves. Reviewers can enforce deletion of anything they consider spurious.

[+Hi-Tek]

The additional waypoints are a great feature.

 

However, some cacher placers are listing additional waypoints with exactly the same co-ords as the main cache (e.g. GCT6D1). This causes problems when viewing using mapping software both on the PC and the GPSr, one icon is superimposed upon another.

 

Could Geocaching.com provide a validation check when the waypoints are initially entered on the cache submission page to ensure that the co-ords of additional waypoints are not the same as the 'parent' cache?

[+Kai Team]

Could Geocaching.com provide a validation check when the waypoints are initially entered on the cache submission page to ensure that the co-ords of additional waypoints are not the same as the 'parent' cache?

 

I'll second that suggestion. I can't think of any valid reason why an "additional" waypoint would have the same coordinates as the cache. It seems like these cache owners don't understand additional waypoints (i.e. they think they're adding value, when they're just creating clutter and confusion).

 

Perhaps some kind of check that produces a gentle error message like "Additional waypoints cannot have the same coordinates as the cache".

[+NotThePainter]

IMO, Points of Interest are better left on Waymarking.com though I can see there could be a use for a generic "other" waypoint type. Any suggestions?

I would love to see Points of Interest waypoints on geocaching.com.

 

I have no interest in Waymarking.com. (I'm not at all against its creation, I just have no interest in it.) But I do love geocaching and I love hiding caches. When I come across a cool spot I'd like to be able to note for geocachers. This "cool" spot can be pretty or it can be useful. I just laid out a multi that has a bit less than 1.5 miles of bushwhacking. There is a bridge across a stream that I'd love to mark as a potential "bail-out" spot. I currently have no way to do that except by noting it in the cache description.

 

So POIs are far more than pretty spots, they can also be useful spots.

 

Paul

[+Hi-Tek]

The additional waypoints are a great feature.

 

However, some cacher placers are listing additional waypoints with exactly the same co-ords as the main cache (e.g. GCT6D1). This causes problems when viewing using mapping software both on the PC and the GPSr, one icon is superimposed upon another.

 

Could Geocaching.com provide a validation check when the waypoints are initially entered on the cache submission page to ensure that the co-ords of additional waypoints are not the same as the 'parent' cache?

Hi Kai Team

 

It seems only you and I have experienced this problem

[Phoenix2001]

I think reference point is still a viable idea. We'll have to come up with an icon for it.

 

Did the "Reference Point" type idea die?

[+Kai Team]

The additional waypoints are a great feature.

 

However, some cacher placers are listing additional waypoints with exactly the same co-ords as the main cache (e.g. GCT6D1). This causes problems when viewing using mapping software both on the PC and the GPSr, one icon is superimposed upon another.

 

Could Geocaching.com provide a validation check when the waypoints are initially entered on the cache submission page to ensure that the co-ords of additional waypoints are not the same as the 'parent' cache?

Hi Kai Team

 

It seems only you and I have experienced this problem

 

Well, don't know if that's true, but it would be nice to get a response from Groundspeak - i.e. makes sense, or, no - we're not going to do that because.... Is anyone from Groundspeak still reading this forum?

Edited May 19, 2006 by Kai Team

[Jeremy]

I think reference point is still a viable idea. We'll have to come up with an icon for it.

 

Did the "Reference Point" type idea die?

 

Sort of. I added it today but it will take several hours to show up on the site.

[Jeremy]

 

Well, don't know if that's true, but it would be nice to get a response from Groundspeak - i.e. makes sense, or, no - we're not going to do that because.... Is anyone from Groundspeak still reading this forum?

 

I have this on my list as a high priority item. Expect to see it sooner than later.

[Phoenix2001]

I think reference point is still a viable idea. We'll have to come up with an icon for it.

 

Did the "Reference Point" type idea die?

 

Sort of. I added it today but it will take several hours to show up on the site.

 

So far I'm not seeing it. I thought we were talking about additional waypoint types in case this was for something else.

Edited May 22, 2006 by Phoenix2001

[+Kai Team]

 

Well, don't know if that's true, but it would be nice to get a response from Groundspeak - i.e. makes sense, or, no - we're not going to do that because.... Is anyone from Groundspeak still reading this forum?

 

I have this on my list as a high priority item. Expect to see it sooner than later.

 

Thanks!

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

Yeah! Reference Points have been added to the waypoint types!

 

Thanks TPTB!