Cahing Ethics Question

[+TeamAO]

I realize that there have been many "caching ethics" questions, in the past. And I also realize that these seem to be the roots of angst filled threads, but if this thread turns into that, I'll close it. I just want an answer, and why that is your belief.

 

Scenario:

 

If you are along with a friend, family member, or any cacher with another screen name on a hide. And you never actually "found" the cache, because you placed it with them, but it is under their screen name....

 

Is it ethical to then log that same cache as a find under your own geocaching.com account?

 

 

Please keep it on topic, answer the question, and try not to address others views they may post in this thread if it is only to fill this thread with angst. Thank you!

[+Klatch]

I have experienced exactly this situation several times. Never logged any of them as a find, although I have done maintenance checks and posted notes on the cache page.

Edited November 1, 2005 by Klatch

[CoyoteRed]

Is it ethical to then log that same cache as a find under your own geocaching.com account?

No. You didn't go on a hunt and successfully complete a cache hunt. Logging a find on a cache you helped place is little different than the owner themselves logging a find.

 

The new ignore feature is a wonderful thing.

 

You could add a placement to your Placed count. Only thing is there is no way to get the count to increment here on gc.com. This is not much different than incrementing you letterbox find count or the private label caches you've found.

 

You help hide it, you deserve the credit, own it. It's not your fault TPTB haven't accommodated multiple hide credits.

[+humanloofa]

Ethicly I would say no don't log it as a find.

 

Flip side of the coin what if the other person is 8 years old, do you let them log it as a find? I am woundering if I should let my son log the ones I hide, since he helped find the hiding spots for them, but he would like a higher find count on his stat page.

[+Renegade Knight]

I have in the past, and I likely will in the future. The reason is that you can't be a co-hider on a cache on this site yet. It's also no big deal to not be present when they do the actual hide, then find it and help them figure out a rating. I once hid a cache while someone was standing about 10' away. They couldn't find it without help.

[+Teamhawaii1981 & blueicyrose]

I don't necessarily think it is wrong. I have never hidden a cache with anyone, so it hasn't happened to me; but I would think if the owner doesn't have a problem with it no one else should. If the stats were some sort of competition with an amazing prize, then "ethically" there would be a problem; but things the way they are; I wouldn't bat an eyelash at someone doing this, just like I don't when an owner logs their hide. However they want to play their game...

[+Moose Mob]

Ethics depends on what is acceptable to your community. Ethics means that you are gaining something unfairly.

 

Some people believe in the "search" and the "find". They will tend to feel that the it is the experience of the search. In which case, if you did not "search" then you should not get credit.

 

Others feel that it is about the location. If you were at the location and your name is in the log book, and you are not the owner, then finding it is OK.

 

In group hides, folks will tend to leave the first page blank for the FTF and all the other folks will sign the second page.

 

So, it depends on your community and what feels right to you.

Edited November 1, 2005 by Moose Mob

[+edscott]

Well.. Did you HIDE it or FIND it? Log it as a find if you think you FOUND it.

[+vanman_30]

I don't see a problem with it. It seems unfair that you go through the trouble of helping someone hide the cache and don't get any kind of credit. You may not have found the cache but you did help find the hiding spot. As long as your not trying to steal the first finders glory then its cool with me!

[+sept1c_tank]

If you are along with a friend, family member, or any cacher with another screen name on a hide. And you never actually "found" the cache, because you placed it with them, but it is under their screen name....

 

Is it ethical to then log that same cache as a find under your own geocaching.com account?

 

I have done this five times. In each case, I traveled to the general area with my friend and helped him scout for hiding places. But when it came time to actually hide the cache, I took a break, so my friend actually hid the cache in a place unknown to me and determined the coordinates.

 

My biggest role in the hide was to serve as a beta tester for the coordinates. When he returned with the coordinates, I found the caches with my own GPSr and signed the log (before they were published).

 

Much later, I adopted the same five caches, so now I have found five of my own caches.

[+budd-rdc]

I don't necessarily think it is wrong.    I have never hidden a cache with anyone, so it hasn't happened to me; but I would think if the owner doesn't have a problem with it no one else should. If the stats were some sort of competition with an amazing prize, then "ethically" there would be a problem; but things the way they are; I wouldn't bat an eyelash at someone doing this, just like I don't when an owner logs their hide. However they want to play their game...

In our area (San Francisco Bay Area), co-hiders using different accounts sometimes log finds on caches they helped place. This hasn't been a problem, since the co-hiders avoid claiming FTFs or prizes associated with that (Jeep TBs, Geocoins, etc.). I've done it twice, but did not claim a find until I physically visited the location again, and in one case, solved the puzzle first to make the find legit.

 

I'm not too worried about it, since there haven't been blatant "abuses" of this around here. It's definitely not as tacky as owners claiming "finds" on their own caches.

[+Team Perks]

If I truly "placed" it with them (i.e., I helped with the container and helped choose a location), I wouldn't log the find. Clearly, I was there, and I know how/where it's hidden. I'd probably put it on my watchlist so I'd know who was finding it, as well as my ignore list, so it wouldn't keep showing up on my unfound list.

 

If I happened to be out hiking with a friend, and s/he decided to hide a cache while I was behind some bushes taking a whiz, and s/he gave me the coordinates and asked me to find it...then I'd probably go with sept1c_tank's answer and consider myself a beta-tester rather than a co-hider. In that case, I wouldn't know where it was hidden and had to actually find it myself.

[+ventura_kids]

Oh, who cares!

[+tozainamboku]

Oh, who cares!

I agree. And ventura_kids has the third most finds of anyone so they should know

[+Criminal]

It seems unfair that you go through the trouble of helping someone hide the cache and don't get any kind of credit.

Credit? What do you get for this 'credit'?

 

Whatever happened to going out and finding geocaches? It seems like most of the cachers these days are only interested in making their numbers grow, not in the cool places, scenery, or hikes.

 

On topic: No.

 

JMHO

[+briansnat]

Is it ethical to then log that same cache as a find under your own geocaching.com account?

 

How can you "find it" if you already know where it is?

[+nfa]

If you are along with a friend, family member, or any cacher with another screen name on a hide. And you never actually "found" the cache, because you placed it with them, but it is under their screen name....Is it ethical to then log that same cache as a find under your own geocaching.com account?

no, you didn't find it

[+Jhwk]

have to agree with most of the other posts. You went to hide it, and didn't "find" it. So go back and find it

[+Moose Mob]

The biggest question is whether you are enjoying the game. Does looging it make it better? or does it make it worse?

 

The goal is to have fun and enjoy. Don't lose focus on that goal.

[+FishPOET]

How can you "find it" if you already know where it is?

 

If you are caching with 1 or more people in a group and you are not FTF of the group, should you log it as a find?

 

If you are not FTF at an event cache, should you log it as a find?

[+Criminal]

If you are caching with 1 or more people in a group and you are not FTF of the group, should you log it as a find?

 

Yes

 

If you are not FTF at an event cache, should you log it as a find?

 

No, you should log events as notes. That way your find count will only reflect actual geocaches that you've found.

 

JMHO

[+Team Maddie UK]

personally I don't think u should have logged it as a FTF but if you go back now it is very possible the cache has been moved a few feet, actually gone missing or any number of things. You might know the location but have u ever actually uncovered it? Go back and find it, log it and get it off your nearest page. Who knows you might not find it.

 

lynn

[+Wander Lost]

Scenario:

 

If you are along with a friend, family member, or any cacher with another screen name on a hide. And you never actually "found" the cache, because you placed it with them, but it is under their screen name....

 

Is it ethical to then log that same cache as a find under your own geocaching.com account?

 

 

I can't say if it is ethical or not. I will say that I would never do it. My husband and I each have our own accounts and I have only logged a find on his caches when I was not with him for the hide.

[Bjornian]

Is it ethical to teach a person to cache on a cache you have already found? I got asked this (someone wanted me to teach them to geocache on a cache I already found and I said no.)

[+briansnat]

Is it ethical to teach a person to cache on a cache you have already found? I got asked this (someone wanted me to teach them to geocache on a cache I already found and I said no.)

Why not?

[+humanloofa]

Is it ethical to teach a person to cache on a cache you have already found? I got asked this (someone wanted me to teach them to geocache on a cache I already found and I said no.)

Why not you let them navigate and actualy find it, you just provide moral support and maybee a clue. I have taken several people to a nice cache I like and let them find it and trade as a way to introduce them to this sport.. This way you know where, and what kind of cache it is. I have them sign the log book just in case they create an account, and write a note online. I have never had a complaint, I have gotten an e-mail thanking me for using there cache as an example for newbies.