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OttoLund

Alkaline Batteries Costs 10 Times More Than Nimh

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4 NiMH batteries with charger, price: $27.

The batteries can be charged minimum 500 times, ie you get 500*4 batteries = 2.000 batteries.

Price per “battery”: $27/4 = $6,75. Price per charged battery is $6,75/500 = $0,01 + charging cost = $0,02 per battery.

2.000 NiMH batteries costs: 2.000 * $0,02 = $40.

 

Good alkaline batteries, minimum price $0,20 a piece. 2.000 alkaline batteries costs: 2.000 * $0,20 = $400.

 

Alkaline batteries costs 10 times more than NiMH batteries

 

Environment:

If you use alkaline batteries you get 2.000 batteries of garbage, compared with only 4 NiMH batteries.

 

What's the best battery

My source forum topic, in norwegian

My own favorite cache in the middle of Norway :lol:

Edited by OttoLund

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4 NiMH batteries with charger, price: $27.

I agree that NiMH are great batteries. I've also the EverReady battery/charger combos advertised for considerably less than the quoted price.

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It has been my experience that NiMH batteries simply do not last for 500 recharge cycles. The ones I have purchased have always failed to hold a significant charge after about 24 months being recharged once or twice a month. Of course, if you keep your GPS on for several hours a day, every day, rechargeable batteries would pay off.

 

Remember that rechargeable batteries have a high discharge rate, and will go dead over time 10 to 100 times faster than alkalines. If you keep a flashlight in your car or home for emergencies, spend the money for brand name alkalines, and save the rechargeable batteries for running the CD player or caching with your GPS.

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It has been my experience that NiMH batteries simply do not last for 500 recharge cycles. The ones I have purchased have always failed to hold a significant charge after about 24 months being recharged once or twice a month. Of course, if you keep your GPS on for several hours a day, every day, rechargeable batteries would pay off.

Interesting. Here's my experience with NiMH batteries: I purchased 16 AA-size NiMH three years ago. Typically, all of them get recharged twice per week. None has failed yet. (Let's see ... that appears to be around 300 charge cycles per battery, so my batteries are now "middle-aged.") In my gps units, they seem to last almost as long as alkaline ... the same can be said for our portable CD players and the kid's GameBoys. It's true that my digital cameras drain them faster, and I wouldn't use them in a standard, ultra-high drain flashlight.

 

Of course, akaline batteries hold their charge for a long period of time if not used; NiMH will lose much of their charge within a week if not used.

 

So use them and charge them often!

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I use the Rayovac IC3 15 min rechargeable batteries. Have a car plug so I can charge them in my car in 15 min and therefore do not need a 12V cable for the GPSr when driving long distances (cost saving: about $25). This set is the best, and from far, rechargeable system I ever purchased. They recharge at about 95% (as per my merigold bat. icon says) and hold the charge better than any rechargeable battery I had before. Highly recommended. I think I paid the charger with 2 AA bats, 2 AAA bats and the car charger about $30. A 4AA bats set costs around $12. More info @ http://www.rayovac.com/... and I do not own Rayovac shares. Really, this is an excellent system.

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I had a bad experience with my Radio Shack charger, they always seemed dead, right out of the charger, or almost dead.

 

Then I bought a good charge from http://www.greenbatteries.com/

 

Get the trickle charger, 10 separate circuits so each battery charges fully.

 

I've been happy ever since.

 

And frankly, I don't care if it cost MORE to use recharagble, I shudder to think of the landfill waste generated by my hobby if I didn't. That's just plain irresponsible.

 

Now if only they didn't drain so fast. I keep NiMh batteries in my flashlights, I just have to remember to swap them out frequently.

 

Paul

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It has been my experience that NiMH batteries simply do not last for 500 recharge cycles.

Interesting story I would like to share. I bought some Energizer NiMH AAAs and AAs about 18 months ago. The AAs used in my digicam and GPSr are working fine. But for the past couple months the AAAs used in my MP3 player would charge only sporadically. The charger LEDs indicated a problem. So I contact Energizer to determine for sure if the problem was with my batteries or the charger. Based on the documentation I found, I guessed it was the batteries being bad. I told Energizer that my AAAs have only been through about 50 charge cycles, well short of the 1000 possible indicated on the package. Energizer apologized for the product not meeting my expectations, and I got a $10 coupon in the mail yesterday for use on Energizer batteries.

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Two Words:

 

Lithium Ion.

Yes agree. Only problem is that the cell voltage is 3.6V :lol:

 

Hope next generation of battery driven equipment will be less voltage intolerant.

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I've found MiMH's to be good overall. Thus far I've had Panasonic, Everedy, and Maha brands ranging from 1300mah to 2400mah. The 2400's are on a par with Alkaline's for length of operation. The 1300's ran about half the duration. That sholdn't be a suprise.

 

Of the 20 or so batteries I've gotten the Maha's failed first. I ran them for about 2 straight years. So call that about 100-200 charge cycles. The Panasonics have been around 4 years but I have started only using them as a backup since the newer ones last one heck of a lot longer. They also probably have 100-200 charge cycles. The Everedy's are too new to tell how long they will last.

 

For some things shelf life is important. For those use the Alakline or Lithium batteries. Where it's daily use, you just can't beat NiMH's and hopefully someday Lithium Ion.

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. . . And frankly, I don't care if it cost MORE to use rechargeable, I shudder to think of the landfill waste generated by my hobby if I didn't. That's just plain irresponsible . . .

I just wanted to repeat this is bold. :lol: Thank you!

 

I have used rechargeable batteries for years. The "off brand" batteries were not a good investment, although I can use them in my TV remote and a small radio and my battery-powered, lighted pepper grinder. ;)

 

For my GPSr I got the 15-minute Energizer batteries and charger for about $25.00 at Target.

 

Those batteries last in my Vista C for 12 hours or more. And then I get freshly-charged batteries in only 15 minutes.

 

If rechargeable batteries aren't working adequately, it is probably the brand. The ones from Wal-Mart are particularly bad.

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It has been my experience that NiMH batteries simply do not last for 500 recharge cycles. The ones I have purchased have always failed to hold a significant charge after about 24 months being recharged once or twice a month. Of course, if you keep your GPS on for several hours a day, every day, rechargeable batteries would pay off.

 

Remember that rechargeable batteries have a high discharge rate, and will go dead over time 10 to 100 times faster than alkalines. If you keep a flashlight in your car or home for emergencies, spend the money for brand name alkalines, and save the rechargeable batteries for running the CD player or caching with your GPS.

Look at the statistic on NIMH vs Any other battery. THey are far superior in elecronics then any other type of battery. Now if you want ones to run your flashlight then okay you can see a non recharable battery die gradually while a rechargable will die off faster but this is NOT becasue they decharge faster just the opposite they discharge at a more consisitant rate and then drop off fast at the end.

cheers

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...

Of course, akaline batteries hold their charge for a long period of time if not used; NiMH will lose much of their charge within a week if not used.

 

So use them and charge them often!

I keep four NiMH batteries in a charger at all times. When it's time to go caching, I pop a new set in the gadget and put last week's set in the charger. The GPSr is good for all day.

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Look at the statistic on NIMH vs Any other battery.  THey are far superior in elecronics then any other type of battery.  Now if you want ones to run your flashlight then okay you can see a non recharable battery die gradually while a rechargable will die off faster but this is NOT becasue they decharge faster just the opposite they discharge at a more consisitant rate and then drop off fast at the end.

Well, I am glad to see a couple of other posters had a similar experience to mine. It is also encouraging to see most people have good experience with rechargables. Perhaps I just got a bad charger or set of batteries.

 

This is a warning: I have to state categorically that NiMH batteries are not the best for all applications. They lose about 25% of their charge a month just sitting there. This is called the self discharge rate. That means if you put a freshly charged pair of NiMH batteries in your emergency flashlight, after 4 months, you will only have 1/3 of a charge left. After another 4 months, you will have only 1/10 of the original charge left, which is effectively dead. Don't put NiMH batteries in your flashlight and expect it to work in 10 months. I am sure any other electrical engineer out there will confirm this.

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This is a warning: I have to state categorically that NiMH batteries are not the best for all applications. They lose about 25% of their charge a month just sitting there. This is called the self discharge rate. That means if you put a freshly charged pair of NiMH batteries in your emergency flashlight, after 4 months, you will only have 1/3 of a charge left. After another 4 months, you will have only 1/10 of the original charge left, which is effectively dead. Don't put NiMH batteries in your flashlight and expect it to work in 10 months. I am sure any other electrical engineer out there will confirm this.

Keep 8-10 NiMH batteries constantly in the charger, ready to replace the discharged ones.

I use a charger for 4 batteries, and circulate 8 batteries, only for my Garmin GPSmap 60CS.

I've planned to buy a additional charger for 8-10 batteries, and circulate a total of 24-28 batteries with the two chargers. Then I can use NiMH batteries in more equipment, in remote controls, etc.

Edited by OttoLund

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Keep 8-10 NiMH batteries constantly in the charger, ready to replace the discharged ones.

I use a charger for 4 batteries, and circulate 8 batteries, only for my Garmin GPSmap 60CS.

If I am right you are suppose to unplug the charger from the wall etc... when the batteries are done. I don't think it is tha important but what my charger says so I usually do it sometime within a week or so of the batteries being charged. I think Ihave 4 sets of batteries, 4 2050 mamp hr and 4 2300 mamp hr batteires and noe I don't mix them I think before I use them or charge them. So I typically carry 4 with me in a nylon pouch one set in the GPSr an one set floating around the house or in the cherger to exchange for the set I change out over the weekend. This works for me.

cheers

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. . . And frankly, I don't care if it cost MORE to use rechargeable, I shudder to think of the landfill waste generated by my hobby if I didn't. That's just plain irresponsible . . .

I just wanted to repeat this is bold. :) Thank you!

I felt that this bears repeating again although, in my opinion, the corrosive fluid in the batteries are an even bigger reason to not use disposables. Anybody who thinks alkaline batteries are okay needs to look up alkaline in the dictionary. You don't want that leaking anywhere, especially into groundwater supplies.

 

Environmental reasons aside, I have been very happy with my NiMHs. You definitely have to get the higher milli-Amp Hours. My first set were 1800 mAH (came with the charger), and they were very disappointing. All those since have been 2400 mAH and I have been very happy with charge life and performance.

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If I am right you are suppose to unplug the charger from the wall etc... when the batteries are done.  I don't think it is tha important but what my charger says so I usually do it sometime within a week or so of the batteries being charged.

From what I've read, you need a trickle charger in order to leave your batteries in all the time without causing them damage. Not one of my areas of expertise, so someone can elaborate further...

Edited by geognerd

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I use a MAHA battery charger. It can be set to completely discharge a battery or batteries before charging insuring maximum life and it automatically shuts off when the batteries have been completely charged.

 

Worth the extra money. :)

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I felt that this bears repeating again although, in my opinion, the corrosive fluid in the batteries are an even bigger reason to not use disposables.  Anybody who thinks alkaline batteries are okay needs to look up alkaline in the dictionary.  You don't want that leaking anywhere, especially into groundwater supplies.

Just an FYI for the environmental types. The "alkaline" in a alkaline battery is used to describe the battery chemistry. If you feel the miniscule ammount of alkaline material in a battery is any threat at all then you should consider that the following materials are all alkaline: sea water, tears, blood, baking soda, milk of magnesia, household bleach and ashes from your environmental friendly wood stove that you so thoughtfully spread around your plants.

 

Anybody who thinks alkaline batteries are bad because of the "alkaline" should have been paying attention in high school chemistry class, and before they start saying something is "bad" for the environment, they should take a few moments to do even the slightest amount of research on the internet.

 

The environmental threat from alkaline batteries used to be the mercury that was used to make them. There has been such a fantastic reduction in the amount of mercury in alkaline cells over the years that I don't think that there are any battery collection centers left.

 

I took the time to type "mercury flourescent tubes" into Google and found a lot of interesting links. The first one: Flourescent Tube Recycling

Just a quick summary. Those energy efficient flourescent lamps that save the environment contain mercury. So much that in Washington they are collected as toxic waste, where alkaline batteries are not.

 

If you are going to be an "environmetalist" you might as know what you are talking about so you don't waste everyone's time trying to save the groundwater from something that professionals agree is no risk at all.

Edited by JohnX

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I did some research long time ago to determine the capacity of non-rechargeable Alkaline batteries. I found it comical that this information was VERY difficult to find, while non-technical ads touting bunnies and copper tops are everywhere. :)

 

I invite others to do the same. I won't quote what I know, since I don't have links or copies of the article to back myself up.

 

I use rechargeable NiMH for digital cameras and GPSr's. Yes, NiMHs do tend to self-discharge faster than Alkaline when not in use but if you are using it all the time, they tend to handle higher current loads better.

 

Li-Ions have higher energy density than NiMHs per volume, but not by much. They have shorter shelf life than NiMHs, which means you should start using them as new as possible, as often as possible. I hear technology purists tout them all the time, but that's like bench racing cars.

 

For my money, current generation of NiMH batteries are the most practical.

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Worth the extra money. :)

Not for NiMH and Li-Ion batteries, it's not.

 

Old NiCd batteries had to be completely discharged to avoid the so-called "memory" effect.

 

Doing that to Li-Ion rechargeables will significantly shorten their lifespan, which (as we all know from the IPod disaster) is not that great to begin with.

 

I don't think it makes any difference for NiMH batteries.

 

There is more good information here and here.

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Battery test I received in another thread.

Alkaline batteries are at the lower end of the list, compared to NiMH batteries. :)

Edited by OttoLund

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Alkaline batteries are at the lower end of the list, compared to NiMH batteries. :)

For high-current applications. Which GPS units are not.

 

I use NiMH cells in my GPS, but alkalines definitely last longer.

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I've been using Nimh batteries in my Garmin Etrex Legend for about 4 months now. I have to admit that they don't last quite as long as alkalines, but the fact that I can recharge them instead of buying new ones more than makes up for the difference in battery life. The ones I use are the Radio Shack 1800 mAh and I would assume that higher capacity rechargeables would last longer or at least the same as alkalines.

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Yes. The 15-minute Energizer 2300 mAh batteries I use last a long time. I had some 1800 mAh batteries (not Radio Shack brand though) and they didn't last long at all . . .

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I find it interesting that some people do not get as much performance out of NIHM batteries than they do out of alkalines in low drain devices. Using two different Magellan Gps’r and a small portable radio I get the same amount of use using 2100 mAH Energizer batteries as I do using name brand alkaline. My 2300 mAH Energizer batteries give me a corresponding 10% increase in use time.

I did find a huge difference in using 1850 mAH Energizer batteries and cheap generic 1800 ah NIHM. Reading reviews of various chargers it would appear that there is a big difference in chargers as well regarding how much total charge each battery has at the end of the charge cycle not including trickle charge.

As pointed out by the battery test linked by Ottolund, it seems there is a big difference in brands as far as capacity goes. I hope they update this test soon because I would like to see how the current crop of 2600 and 2500 mAH batteries compare.

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I have a peak charger with digital readouts of charging current and voltage, which I've used for Radio Control equipment in the past. Back in the days when 1200-1600 mAh was the capacity for AA size NiMH batteries, I noticed a significant difference in peak voltage between brands. (Panasonic > Sanyo) This difference was tangible on my R/C aircraft, both by motor sound and by flight performance.

 

This might explain the significant difference in performance for older generation NiMH batteries, since some brands would reach the cut-off voltage earlier than others, despite the fact that the capacities were similar. I know that Sanyo released a new NiMH chemistry with peak voltage matching that of Panasonic around the time 2000 mAh cells were released.

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I forgot to compare with lithium batteries. Lithium batteries are not chargable and costs 15 times more than alkaline batteries, 150 times more than NiMH batteries.

 

So use NiMH, I do. I found an online dealer in Norway who supplies Energizer 2500mAh NiMH batteries. Anyway, (almost) any NiMH battery will do.

 

Otto, Norway

Edited by OttoLund

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My GPSr uses 2 AA batteries. Although Lithium-ion batteries out-perform Nimh, I haven't been able to find AA Li batteries. So I keep using my Nimh - they recharge in 15 minutes and last all day. So keep a spare set on hand if you think you'll run out. Nimh vs alkaline? Who wants to keep running to the store to buy batteries? Like I said, 2 AA Nimh run all day without recharging. :lol:

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We have been using the 2500ma NiMH batteries since the first set of expensive throw aways and love them. With the Legends, they last us a good long time.

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I did some research long time ago to determine the capacity of non-rechargeable Alkaline batteries. I found it comical that this information was VERY difficult to find, while non-technical ads touting bunnies and copper tops are everywhere. <_<

Not hard to find. Look here. Here's the AA.

 

The first link came right from the Energizer home page.

 

I won't bother linking to the other guys since I work for the Bunny.

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It has been my experience that NiMH batteries simply do not last for 500 recharge cycles. The ones I have purchased have always failed to hold a significant charge after about 24 months being recharged once or twice a month. Of course, if you keep your GPS on for several hours a day, every day, rechargeable batteries would pay off.

 

Remember that rechargeable batteries have a high discharge rate, and will go dead over time 10 to 100 times faster than alkalines. If you keep a flashlight in your car or home for emergencies, spend the money for brand name alkalines, and save the rechargeable batteries for running the CD player or caching with your GPS.

Look at the statistic on NIMH vs Any other battery. THey are far superior in elecronics then any other type of battery. Now if you want ones to run your flashlight then okay you can see a non recharable battery die gradually while a rechargable will die off faster but this is NOT becasue they decharge faster just the opposite they discharge at a more consisitant rate and then drop off fast at the end.

cheers

Thats also why they dont show a full charge on displays.

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I did some research long time ago to determine the capacity of non-rechargeable Alkaline batteries. I found it comical that this information was VERY difficult to find, while non-technical ads touting bunnies and copper tops are everywhere.  :o

Not hard to find. Look here. Here's the AA.

 

The first link came right from the Energizer home page.

 

I won't bother linking to the other guys since I work for the Bunny.

Hey, cool, and directly from the source. Thanks for the link.

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Alkaline batteries costs 10 times more than NiMH batteries

Although I use NiMH batteries, I will not agree that alkaline batteries cost 10 times as much. That depends on rate of use. In order for OttoLund's math to be valid you must use the NiMH for 500 cycles. If you used the GPS once a week and recycled the batteries, it would take almost 10 years to go through 500 cycles. The shelf life of the NiMH batteries may only be 4 years or so. The economics of NiMH vs. alkaline batteries depends on how much you use your GPS. If you are a "heavy user", the NiMH will be cost effective, otherwise not.

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If the shelf life is 4 years for NiMH batteries and 500 cycles lasts 10 years, the alkaline batteries costs 4 times more than NiMH, not 10.

Edited by OttoLund

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Final report from me, based on this thread and some others:

http://web97962.ta31.talkactive.net/mbbs22...posts=1&start=1

 

I'm going to invest in one or two NiMH battery chargers which each can hold 8-10 batteries, preferably chargers which can charge the batteries permanently, with batteries always ready for use.

 

NiMH chargers suggestions?

Edited by OttoLund

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This is where I got mine:

Thomas Distributing

 

(no connection to them, just a happy customer -- I found them when I was doing research on digi-cam battery performance a couple years ago; they were highly recommended by the engineers who had published the performance tests on the web site I found)

 

They always seem to have good deals (and freebies!) and the rep I talked to on the phone was very helpful. He pointed out a couple of things I did not know about NiMH:

 

- DON'T DROP THEM or knock them around as that can cause damage and the battery will fail. (The company provides great little plastic storage cases free with every order, or at least they did when I ordered mine) -- and by the way, I can vouch for the fact that dropping causes battery failure!

 

- DON'T MIX batteries of different strengths (2000's with 2300's for instance)

 

- DON'T MIX batteries of different charge levels (ie: make sure that all batteries placed in the same appliance are charged to the same level) -- it's a good idea to keep "sets" of batteries together and charge them/use them as a set.

 

- Don't let the positive/negative ends of the batteries touch each other when you are storing/carrying them, apparently it can cause them to discharge (the little plastic cases are wonderful for this!)

 

---

Like others, I did not have the best experience with 1800's. The newer, more powerful NiMHs have been great for me, though.

 

And like others have mentioned, you should NOT use rechargeables in your flashlights or home smoke detectors. Safety equipment is too important to have fail during an emergency!

 

>>> OttoLund, you should call the company linked above and talk to the rep about what charger is best for your needs & budget. They were very courteous and helpful and did not try to over-sell me, which I appreciated.

 

EDIT: Here is a link to a page about NiMH care and feeding:

NiMH Battery Care

 

I will add one more note -- that when people say they didn't have a good experience with rechargeables, I believe most of the time it's due to poor quality (or early technology) chargers, or improper battery care. The latest charger models really ARE a whole different breed.

Edited by Kathi & the Grouch

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Anybody who caches and doesn't use rechargables is spending way to much time in line buying batteries.

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