Where's George Hates Geocaching

[4wheelin_fool]

We should respect the rules of Where's George in the same way that we should expect others to respect geocaching. I'm sure that Hank has spent a fair amount of his life getting the tracking system to work fairly and properly.

On another note, yes you CAN get prosecuted for stealing caches. One, maybe not. But two or more, shows INTENT and demonstrates that the muggle knows that it is someone else's property. Enough said.

[+GeoJunkie]

Hank,

 

Thanks for clearing things up for us. I can now understand your frustration over the abusers in the GC community. It looks like the few bad apples have ruined it for the rest of us honest folks. Here's the one frustration for me, though: putting dollar bills in caches IS part of the natural circulation in at least some cases. This past weekend, I put $2 into a cache to help cover the cost of the toys the owner was putting in. The owner said either trade even or put $1 into the cache to help him keep it stocked with nice, new, dollar store items for the kids (it's a kid-themed cache). Since I didn't have any toys that met the criteria, I put money in, but had to make a point NOT to put a WG$ into the cache, thus not being able to document the natural movement of those bills.

 

When I hide caches, I usually include a dollar as sort of a FTF prize. When I find WG$, I usually log them and spend them, sometimes I log them and they end up in another cache, sometimes I spend them before they get logged.

 

I see your frustration, but maybe you can see ours...with the Geocaching rules in place, WG can't document the natural circulation of my money, so it's not a useful site for me any more.

[Where's George?]

Whereas WG uses bills that are technically the property of the Federal Reserve Bank system, and were not intended to be used this way.

 

Just to clarify, U.S. currency is your property as long as you have it. Not the FRB, Treasury, or Bureau of Engraving and Printing.

Edited September 13, 2005 by Where's George?

[Where's George?]

...........so what's the point?... I would think logging the bills at the time of mailing and again at the time of receipt would be beneficial to the site--down the road a map of the bills movement could be put together, and if logged every time it changed hands, you would be able to visually see the amount of donations that were sent.

 

My point was that the intentional movement of bills is what causes the problems.... Yes, I would LOVE to track every instance that a bill changed hands (naturally, not like in the 'geocache family' example above), where the two people involved in the transaction aren't doing it intentionally.

 

Outside of geocaching, I have a minor problem on the site where a family spread around the country finds a bill, and sends it to all their members, so I get a tracking report like:

 

1. My mom gave me this bill, sending it to Mary

2. Johnny sent me this bill from FLorida, I'm sending to to my cousin Jeff

3. I got this bill in the mail from Mary.. off to Texas

4. and on and on...

 

Clearly, they are misusing the system..they really need WG to tell them where they all sent the bill? I see the same thing happen on internet forums frequently, where they gather a list of members to "play" their game, and mail a bill around and make funny comments on WG and their forum. In some cases, they post photos of the bill in "interesting" places. Some of those threads are pretty funny, but not was WG was meant to do, so I delete the bills from WG, and attempt to explain to the particiapants why.

 

Another problem I have is people who frequently give cash to other people, and they both always log it... like a family paying a babysitter, or someone who leaves tips at a restaurant every other day. When two people on the site rack up 500 or 1000 hits between them, the actual transactions might be called "natural circulation", but again, do they need Where's George? to count the number of bills exchanged between them? Not really.

 

I understand that there are inherent conflicts in the rules in trying to understand exactly what is and isn't natural circulation. But it boils down to two things: (a) Was the bill intentionally moved and logged from point A to point B, and ( are bills being used to track something other than the normal, random, natural movement of currency in trade or commerce.

 

I've been through it many many times, and since you are all new to discussling the concept, yes, it's easy to come up with a hundred different scenarios that challenge the definition of 'natural circulation'... and there are certainly grey areas.. but I do rely on basic common sense to be applied in understanding the spirit of the rules, and not a scientific dissection of the actual letters of the rules.

[Where's George?]

One more thing I'd like to add: If you find a bill and can honestly make the statement "I have no idea where this bill has been before I got it, and I have no idea where it's going to go next after I spend it", that would be natural circulation.

[+carleenp]

Whereas WG uses bills that are technically the property of the Federal Reserve Bank system, and were not intended to be used this way.

 

Just to clarify, U.S. currency is your property as long as you have it. Not the FRB, Treasury, or Bureau of Engraving and Printing.

Just to clarify: The quote here was erroeously attributed to me (that happens from cutting imbedded quotes). I did not make the statement. It was made by dkwolf.

 

Thanks! Carry on!

Edited September 13, 2005 by carleenp

[+BlueDeuce]

Imagine taking a Where's George dollar and attaching a note to it that says "move me from cache to cache" or "move me from California to Florida".

Once they get into a cache that is pretty much happens in practice.

 

If Hanks wants the circulation to be 'natural', he has every right to his own headaches. More power to him.

 

I just hope the bookcrossing.com don't suddenly have an issue with where I'm dropping books.

 

Hmmmm, I think I'm going to take a WG dollar, tape it inside a bookcrossing book and drop it in a cache. Oh I forgot...close to a letterbox in South Carolina. (That's a joke by the way)

Edited September 13, 2005 by BlueDeuce

[+Yamahammer]

What's with everyone (or organization) hatin' on GC??? We hear about Letterboxers hatin' on GC. We hear about South Carolina hatin' on GC and now we have WG.

 

Before I got into this, I read the GC/Groundspeak propaganda and Geo-U stuff. With CITO, being outside, dealing with gadgets, wholesome and stuff, I thought this was something that surely (Don't call me Shirley!), would be welcome into the light without problem. How niave was that? But all in all, it still doesn't deter me or my family from participating. We love it.

 

"If it's in the GAME!!!"

 

[+briansnat]

So basically I can still put dollar bills in geocaches as long as they are not registered on WG?

[+BlueDeuce]

You can put wg dollars in there for all I care. Not my problem.

[+briansnat]

Hey, how about Jeremy vs. Hank in a steel cage match on pay per view?

[Pto]

Now that, I'd pay $1 to see- WG marked or not !

[+NevaP]

I came in late and can't believe I took time to read this whole thread.

 

I've been Georging for about as long as I've been caching and I used to trade WG bills in caches but after becoming aware of the WGers concern about this now I usually just log any I find in caches and stick them in my billfold to be spent.

 

Those of us who do take time to mark and log every bill we spend really appreciate it when you non Georgers DO log any marked bill you happen to encounter anywhere. It doesn't take long to do that. It does not commit you to marking all your own spending money. It just gives one bill a recorded hit.

 

And I'm wondering. Does a bill now get tagged as a geocached bill with the first mention of it being found or placed in a cache? Maybe I just won't tell when I find cached ones in the future.

 

Anyway, as has been mentioned above. Follow the rules of both activites please.

 

[Where's George?]

And I'm wondering. Does a bill now get tagged as a geocached bill with the first mention of it being found or placed in a cache?  Maybe I just won't tell when I find cached ones in the future. 

 

Ancient Chinese Secret.

 

Edited September 13, 2005 by Where's George?

[+mrmnjewel]

I have tried to enjoy WG in the past. No offense to Hank, but it is not my cup of tea...But to watch this whole thing drag out into a petty little inter-hobby pi**ing match is just sad. I have, in the past, on rare occasions placed a WG bill in a cache. I won't anymore at this point. But, this thread has degenerated into repeated flogging of deceased horseflesh.

 

<Editing this post lest the "Political Correctness Police" throw things at me >

Edited September 13, 2005 by mrmnjewel

[+carleenp]

I have tried to enjoy WG in the past. No offense to Hank, but it is not my cup of tea...But to watch this whole thing drag out into a petty little inter-hobby pi**ing match is just sad. . . .

 

I see where there has been some past animosity, or at least the appearance of it, but I think the conversation in this thread has been quite interesting and informative. I was interested to learn more about these issues. I assume others are too.

Edited September 13, 2005 by carleenp

[+Renegade Knight]

One more thing I'd like to add: If you find a bill and can honestly make the statement "I have no idea where this bill has been before I got it, and I have no idea where it's going to go next after I spend it", that would be natural circulation.

That is a subset of natural circulation.

 

I always know where a bill came from because it had to get to me physically. It's history before that point is what's a mystery. I can find it on the ground, get it in change, or out of a cache and they are all part of the natural circulation. Not every bill I find in a cache is tagged as a WG buck.

 

As for the second part. Spending is optional. I have lost money, placed money in caches, and given them away for no particularly good reason, used them as bookmarks and forgot about them (giving a library patron a bonus). Most of the time I spend it, but not always. That too is natural circulation.

 

Even so I can see what you are getting at. If I know it's going to Tom, Dick, and Harry and Harry's taking it to a cache in Smallville USA then that's not the natural you are interested in. You can't tell it apart from owing Tom a buck, paying him back, he pays for his share of munchies on a road trip and give it to Dick, and then Harry is short on swag at a cache so Dick gives him a buck. I guess you can ban it all though.

 

Your entire problem stems from that you are trying to track the natural circulation of a bill as if your site didn't exist. Not the natural circulation that has resulted from the fact that your site does exist. You are already aware of the Travel Bug Effect your site creates. The biggest problem you face is that you have to balance pissing people off against tracking natural circulation as you define it. Plus you have to define it in a way that people using your site understand. How much time and effort enforcment takes is your indicator of how clear or popular your rules are. Piss off enough and WheresAbe.com will be viable.

 

A defacto dislike of geocache bucks, doesn't track natural circulation that exists already. I put dollars in caches and I don't really care if they are WG or not thus it should be natural though you have no real way to tell that from a WG Travel Bug.

 

Good luck.

[+Car54]

Dipping my timid toe into the roiling waters of this dispute, I still would like to know what the WG folks would like me to do when I find a WG bill in a cache:

 

Leave it there?

 

Take it and mingle it with my other bills? If so, log that I took it? Log it when I spend it?

 

Neither of the above?

 

Mrs. Car54

[+mrmnjewel]

I have tried to enjoy WG in the past. No offense to Hank, but it is not my cup of tea...But to watch this whole thing drag out into a petty little inter-hobby pi**ing match is just sad. . . .

 

I see where there has been some past animosity, or at least the appearance of it, but I think the conversation in this thread has been quite interesting and informative. I was interested to learn more about these issues. I assume others are too.

I have no animosity with anyone here. This thread just reminds me of a couple of tomcats hissing and spraying over some female in heat. Come on, people. Let's play our game and let the Georgers play theirs.

[+deimos444]

Hank, I have a serious question.

How many members does the Wheres George organization have?

Just wondering.

[Where's George?]

That is a subset of natural circulation....

 

Like I said a few posts ago, you can pick apart, dissect, and scientifically attempt to define 'natural circulation', and come up with dozens of questionable scenarios, but that's not the point. Common sense and the spirit of the rules is the point.

 

Yes, some can argue that the introduction of the site alters natural circulation. But again, Where's George? is not a scientific, financial, economic, or monetary study. It's a hobby enjoyed by thousands of people for no other reason than it's fun to do.

 

I attempt to explain the concept of natural circulation as best I can, as I originally envisioned the site working. I'm not going to attempt to defend it on a scientific, PhD-thesis-defense level.

 

It's just a game.

 

And BTW, have you tried visiting WheresAbe.com ??

[Where's George?]

I still would like to know what the WG folks would like me to do when I find a WG bill in a cache:

 

I would ask that you take it from the cache and spend it.

 

If you want to log it once on WG that you found it in a cache and where, that's fine. (But use your current zip code, not the zip code of the cache).

 

Thanks for asking for clarification.

[Where's George?]

Hank, I have a serious question.

How many members does the Wheres George organization have?

Just wondering.

 

Lots of interesting stats on the Site Summary page: http://www.wheresgeorge.com/wrapper.php?page=sitesummary

 

Total number of bills entered into Where's George? 78,634,740

Number of registered users 3,177,535

Number of registered users who have entered bills 2,563,536

Number of bills entered by registered users 69,761,872

Average number of bills entered per registered user 27

Number of bills entered by non-registered users 8,872,868

[+joefrog]

As long as people keep placing them...we'll keep putting them back in circulation by spending them!

And isn't that the point?

 

I do stamp some of my $ with WG, but I simply consider what I do with it from there my business. I have a serious problem with the statement that any geocache bills will be .... what was it, "blocked?" Something along those lines could make me give up WG without ever looking back or a single regret.

 

If my bills are mentioned as being in a cache, but at some point spent again, i have to say... what is the harm? Cash is still moving.

[Where's George?]

Geocahce bills are not "blocked" (not yet, anyway).. they are tagged as Geocache bills and removed from the stats and summaries on WG, since they represent bills will extra, non-natural circulated hits.

[+Glenn]

<snip>

 

I understand that there are inherent conflicts in the rules in trying to understand exactly what is and isn't natural circulation. But it boils down to two things: (a) Was the bill intentionally moved and logged from point A to point B, and ( are bills being used to track something other than the normal, random, natural movement of currency in trade or commerce.

 

I've been through it many many times, and since you are all new to discussling the concept, yes, it's easy to come up with a hundred different scenarios that challenge the definition of 'natural circulation'... and there are certainly grey areas.. but I do rely on basic common sense to be applied in understanding the spirit of the rules, and not a scientific dissection of the actual letters of the rules.

Is this natural circulation? I enter a bill at WG and drop it in a geocache. To me it seems to fit the definition.

 

What is point A and point B? If I am Point A. Point B would be the next person to log the bill definition. The geocache itself isn't Point B. Let me know if I am wrong about what I currently think Point A and Point B is.

 

Assuming I got Point A and Point B correct.

 

Yes, the next finder will be a geocacher, but not always the next one to log the bill. I wouldn't know if they will take the bill or leave it. I wouldn't know if they will spend it or move it to another geocache. I wouldn't know which geocacher would be the next one to find the geocache and more than likely I would have never met this person or communicated with them in any way. If I did it would only be by chance.

 

This isn't very different from the natural circulation of speding money is a store. The next finder would be someone who interacts with that store, usually a customer. I wouldn't know which customer gets handed the bill as change or of the cashier swaps out my bill and puts it in their pocket. I wouldn't know if the person who gets my bill next would spent it in another store or the same store. I more than likely wouldn't know this person, but I occasionally strike up a converstion with those in line. Because, especially in specialty stores, we usually have something in common.

 

I can see your point about different scenarios and hypotheticals. So, I would like to bring this converstion back to only one that matters in this thread. A geocacher placing a WG bill in a geocache.

[+clan_Barron]

I think the conversation in this thread has been quite interesting and informative. I was interested to learn more about these issues. I assume others are too. 

I agree, the conversation as been mostly civil and informative. I think Hank has done a good job of presenting the "Where's George" point of view and I appreciate his taking the time to create an account and join this thread. I've logged a few WG bills myself (mostly from my wallet but a few from caches) but overall I'm just too lazy to do it on a regular basis. I can appreciate that some people agree and some disagree with the WG position on "natural circulation" and geocaching but I think that it comes down to respecting the WG position whether you agree or not. As cachers we have to respect land owners if they request a cache not be placed on their property. It's the same with WG, if they request that bills not be logged in and out of caches per their rules, then we should repect that decision.

[Jeremy]

Hey, how about Jeremy vs. Hank in a steel cage match on pay per view?

I think it would be more like Hank and I against the forum mob. I'd take a bunch of you out before you got me

[+briansnat]

As long as people keep placing them...we'll keep putting them back in circulation by spending them!

And isn't that the point?

 

I do stamp some of my $ with WG, but I simply consider what I do with it from there my business. I have a serious problem with the statement that any geocache bills will be .... what was it, "blocked?" Something along those lines could make me give up WG without ever looking back or a single regret.

 

If my bills are mentioned as being in a cache, but at some point spent again, i have to say... what is the harm? Cash is still moving.

That's true. I've found "unGeorged" bills in caches, registered them and sent them on their merry way. I don't think they should be blocked simply because they spent some time in a geocache. Similarly, I've received Georges in the wild and placed them in caches. If the next person finds it and spends it, I don't see why that bill should be tagged or blocked.

[+welch]

(chop)

Anyway, maybe my response above was a little snippy (I didn't expect it to get re-posted in public), but maybe you can perhaps see how it all got started. And it doesn't stop. WG bills get added to geocaches everyday, making the problem that much worse, which is why I had to tag each WG bill that ends up in a geocache as "dead" - i.e. not counted in any stats or tracking on WG. I'm not sure WG and Geocaching can peacefully co-exist, since you don't need Where's George? to track the travels of Geocaching Travel Bugs, even if they are dollar bills.. doesn't the Geocaching site already track Travel bugs from cache to cache? Why does WG even need to be involved at all?

 

(SNIP)

 

-Hank

Where's George?

Ok, I get that they're no longer counting in the most miles/etc boards, but Does "not counted in any stats or tracking" mean if I find a WG marked as a geocaching bill, I won't be able to enter the hit?

[Where's George?]

Ok, I get that they're no longer counting in the most miles/etc boards, but Does "not counted in any stats or tracking" mean if I find a WG marked as a geocaching bill, I won't be able to enter the hit?

 

No, you can (currently) enter them and the hits register.

 

And for people arguing that bills in geocaches are still "natural".. the current "highest hit" bill on WG has 15 entries.. the next has 13 entries, and then a few at 12, and a few more at 11 entries.

 

The current highest hit geocache bill has 26 entries. Another has 25 entries. And these entries are mostly "in and out" of the same cache. It's people hitting bills in a cache, and putting it back.. Does Where's George? *really* need to track activity already being tracked on Geocaching.com - where it was meant to be tracked?

 

For you folks still beating this to death, isn't it enough that I simply request that geocaching bills not be tracked on Where's George?. Can't you just respect my rules and wishes, as stated, and leave it at that?

 

Like I've said now several times, yes, you can create infinite scenarios that challenge my rules... that doesn't mean YOU HAVE TO.

[+deimos444]

Hey, how about Jeremy vs. Hank in a steel cage match on pay per view?

I think it would be more like Hank and I against the forum mob. I'd take a bunch of you out before you got me

Not if I got to bring my momma!

[Where's George?]

Here's the current highest-hit GC bill - 26 hits.

 

http://www.wheresgeorge.com/report.php?key...63a85aeced7da0a

 

Someone please explain to me how this is what I created WG to track.

 

edit: Here's are other examples -

 

17 hits: http://www.wheresgeorge.com/report.php?key...9dd75ffc020f670

 

20 hits: http://www.wheresgeorge.com/report.php?key...b7dab99b16271ff

Edited September 13, 2005 by Where's George?

[Jeremy]

That's only something you can answer, Hank. Which you have very thoroughly answered already. We have to deal with other abusive issues on our site as well so "I feel your pain."

[Where's George?]

Thanks, Jeremy.

[+Renegade Knight]

...And for people arguing that bills in geocaches are still "natural".. the current "highest hit" bill on WG has 15 entries.. the next has 13 entries, and then a few at 12, and a few more at 11 entries.

 

The current highest hit geocache bill has 26 entries. Another has 25 entries. And these entries are mostly "in and out" of the same cache. It's people hitting bills in a cache, and putting it back.. Does Where's George? *really* need to track activity already being tracked on Geocaching.com - where it was meant to be tracked?...

Bills in caches are natural as I find them all the time with and without WG marks on them (and I recognize that a bill doesn't have to have a WG stamp to have been tracked).

 

One aspect is that GC.com users are more likely to log something logable than Joe Six Pack. Even so we still can't get people to log TB's right.

 

Some of it is, the TB effect an some of it is probalby that cachers are more pre-disposed to log bills.

 

You can make whatever rules you want, but I'm not going to wade through them when I log another WG bill at some point in the future because I'm feeling guilty (which isn't natural) that somone spent time to mark the bill and is going to enjoy a hit on 'their' bill. You have to enforce your own rules. As a casual user of your site pretty much doing you a favor to log a bill at all, KISS applies. If you delete my log because it somehow wrong. I'll drop even the casual useage and spread the gospel accoring to WG.com.

 

In caching terms. You can make the rules for your 'cache' but then you have to enforce them and explain them, and live with them, and see that you get less logs than someone else with simpler rules.

[+joefrog]

Geocahce bills are not "blocked" (not yet, anyway).. they are tagged as Geocache bills and removed from the stats and summaries on WG, since they represent bills will extra, non-natural circulated hits.

So, will my dad's shoebox full of $$ in his closet also be excluded from stats? As far as I can tell, that's pretty much the same thing.

[+Renegade Knight]

...

Proving a cache is mine is already a problem I've solved out of necessity. I've also had a US District Attorney tell me in no uncertain terms the law does work for caches. With the right kind of backing I could lock you away for exactly the petty theivery you propose. With a bit of planning I can ensure it's a felony.

 

This has got the be the biggest piece of BS I've read on the internet in a long time. Thanks for the laugh. Felony. Riiiiight.. for a $20 box of junk in the woods. Talk about "misguided on reality.". Let's see some actual case law instead of completely unprovable hot air.

Sorry there bucko, your third grade tactics still leave you short of the truth.

 

1) The laws are there.

2) You can be prosecuted.

3) You just can't get the police involved for reasons that come down to priority. A murder investigation trumps virtually everthing else. Everthing else trumps a single cache container. It would be cold day in hell before you could get the police to spend the manpower to obtain the evidence that could be used to get them prosecuted. Either that or we would be living in paradise on earth if that's all they had to worry about. You could fund it yourself though and force the system but most people can't afford that angle, let alone the time it takes.

4) I said as much, if you actually read it.

5) That leaves busting the SOB upside the head with a shovel, which is one of those priorites the police have that trumps a cache container.

 

Unlike you, I've had to slog through this crap by talking to people like the US District Attorney, and the Police. As for you, I'm sure you are just making it up as you go without actually knowing jack. Now I'm sure you do know a bit about marking money with "Log me on WG.com" and how the law treats that. But that's not what you were spouting off about.

[+Byron & Anne]

...

Proving a cache is mine is already a problem I've solved out of necessity. I've also had a US District Attorney tell me in no uncertain terms the law does work for caches. With the right kind of backing I could lock you away for exactly the petty theivery you propose. With a bit of planning I can ensure it's a felony.

 

This has got the be the biggest piece of BS I've read on the internet in a long time. Thanks for the laugh. Felony. Riiiiight.. for a $20 box of junk in the woods. Talk about "misguided on reality.". Let's see some actual case law instead of completely unprovable hot air.

Sorry there bucko, your third grade tactics still leave you short of the truth.

 

1) The laws are there.

2) You can be prosecuted.

3) You just can't get the police involved for reasons that come down to priority. A murder investigation trumps virtually everthing else. Everthing else trumps a single cache container. It would be cold day in hell before you could get the police to spend the manpower to obtain the evidence that could be used to get them prosecuted. Either that or we would be living in paradise on earth if that's all they had to worry about. You could fund it yourself though and force the system but most people can't afford that angle, let alone the time it takes.

4) I said as much, if you actually read it.

5) That leaves busting the SOB upside the head with a shovel, which is one of those priorites the police have that trumps a cache container.

 

Unlike you, I've had to slog through this crap by talking to people like the US District Attorney, and the Police. As for you, I'm sure you are just making it up as you go without actually knowing jack. Now I'm sure you do know a bit about marking money with "Log me on WG.com" and how the law treats that. But that's not what you were spouting off about.

Interesting. I figure abandoned stuff is abandoned stuff.

Since you've done so much research, please provide the code section and paragraph numbers to support your claim.

 

Thanks

[+russell_53040]

All I ask is if you want to use Where's George? and Geocaching, then do each as a separate hobby or activity. Follow the rules on each site as stipulated. Please don't try to do both at the same time.

I have many hobbies. I have 2 that I like to do and they work well when doing both together. I like to Geocache and I collect Hotwheels. I take my extras to pass on to kids in caches. But you telling people to do one or the other is like telling a parent to choose between there 2 kids. I feel I have the best of both worlds that I can combine 2 hobbies together. When something is not fun anymore I stop doing it. Everybody plays different. If you and Jeremy put your heads together I bet you both can come up with a solution. You both have great sites and must be doing something right because they are still going today. But I bet if we all work together we can all come up with a solution to this besides if you don’t like my rules don’t play then. If they come up with a rule that would say no Hotwheels in caches anymore well sorry to say I would have to choose my cars. Also Hank I read a post on your boards about how to make ink not run why in the world would that post not be pulled? Is it not telling you how to keep a brand on the bills. Sorry couldn’t think of any other way to write that.

[+tozainamboku]

If we live in a logical world, RK is right. If I left my car on public street, you can't just take it, even if I left it unlocked and with the keys in the ignition.

[+Renegade Knight]

...Interesting. I figure abandoned stuff is abandoned stuff.

Since you've done so much research, please provide the code section and paragraph numbers to support your claim....

What makes you think it's abandoned? I sure didn't abandon it. There is more to abandoned property than having it ouside my physical control. If by law it's abandoned then it's a moot point. However I have no reason to distrust the Attorney that I spoke with. I’ll pop them an email and see if they can point me at some relevant case law or laws that can be linked to. At the time we had our original discussion the problem we were trying to tackle was getting the police to help.

 

Having actually spoken with someone who does have expereince I'd like to point out that it's more than either you or Hank seem to have done on the topic. You are able to do your own legwork to support your own viewpoint. While I email my contact why don't both of you find your own case law and code and point at it? It's only fair.

[+TMAACA]

Here's the current highest-hit GC bill - 26 hits.

 

http://www.wheresgeorge.com/report.php?key...63a85aeced7da0a

 

Someone please explain to me how this is what I created WG to track.

 

edit: Here's are other examples -

 

17 hits:  http://www.wheresgeorge.com/report.php?key...9dd75ffc020f670

 

20 hits: http://www.wheresgeorge.com/report.php?key...b7dab99b16271ff

Now I see... this dollar bill, that has less than 30 hits in the past 4 years, puts at risk years of statistics that prove conclusively that the average number of times a WG bill will be logged is just about 0??

 

I'll abide by your request and not put WG's in caches Hank, but I have to say your game seems kinda boring... I'd give some thought to trying to partner with Geocaching.com in some fashion. It seems people want to combine the two - why fight it when everyone could potentially benefit from it???

[+The Leprechauns]

But you telling people to do one or the other is like telling a parent to choose between there 2 kids.

Leave one kid in a box out in the woods with a travel bug tag attached, and stamp "track me on Where's George.com" on the other kid's forehead before dropping him off at the local bank branch. See which one gets back to you first.

[+deimos444]

Hank old boy there is a section of law called torts and within that law is a subsection called personal injury.

Some of the greatest monetary damage amounts accrue there.

You have already shown willingness to harm.

You claim to have opportunity.

Gosh, two strikes already.

There are people here who would gladly own you for muggling their caches.

You should try to contain your circular logic and be a nice guy.

It woudn't hurt.

[+Byron & Anne]

...Interesting.  I figure abandoned stuff is abandoned stuff. 

Since you've done so much research, please provide the code section and paragraph numbers to support your claim....

What makes you think it's abandoned? I sure didn't abandon it. There is more to abandoned property than having it ouside my physical control. If by law it's abandoned then it's a moot point. However I have no reason to distrust the Attorney that I spoke with. I’ll pop them an email and see if they can point me at some relevant case law or laws that can be linked to. At the time we had our original discussion the problem we were trying to tackle was getting the police to help.

 

Having actually spoken with someone who does have expereince I'd like to point out that it's more than either you or Hank seem to have done on the topic. You are able to do your own legwork to support your own viewpoint. While I email my contact why don't both of you find your own case law and code and point at it? It's only fair.

Ah Ha, just as I thought you can't quote code...

[+Tharagleb]

I was a WG member long before I discovered geo-caching, although I was never obsessive about it like some are. I recently took a WG dollar from a cache in Ohio. I logged it simply as "got it at a rest plaza on the Ohio Turnpike" and didn't mention that I had found it in a cache.

 

I am including the same dollar in a new cache I'm placing. The next person who picks it up can do with it as they wish. I don't see anything wrong with it.

 

BTW: I'm also including in that new cache a paperback that I registered with Bookcrossing.com. Again, the person who picks it up can do whatever they want with it.

 

Someone probably mentioned that the WG website does not endorse the marking of currency with the WG website or in any other way. They discourage it, in fact.

Yeah, I understand the Feds probably leaned on WG.com to get them to discourage marking the currency. But my problem with that is this: if it doesn't say WG.com on it somewhere nobody is gonna go and relog the bill. How the heck do they expect this to work now??? Only a fraction of all unmarked currency will be logged as new, but if you put the wg.com URL on it the chances go up considerably, at least I would imagine...

 

I also see lots of bills with stuff people (bank tellers?) have written on them, seems to be in violation of the law.

[Where's George?]

Hank old boy there is a section of law called torts and within that law is a subsection called personal injury.

Some of the greatest monetary damage amounts accrue there.

You have already shown willingness to harm.

You claim to have opportunity.

Gosh, two strikes already.

There are people here who would gladly own you for muggling their caches.

You should try to contain your circular logic and be a nice guy.

It woudn't hurt.

 

Where have I shown "willingness to harm"?

 

The only thing I've referred to is removing seemingly abandoned Tupperware in the woods. Petty theft, as a purely theoretical argument, I can see. How that coverts to a tort or personal injury is beyond me.

 

On the other hand, RK has already threatened to hit me in the head with a shovel.

 

Who'se torting who?

Edited September 13, 2005 by Where's George?

[+Recdiver]

<snip>

 

Who'se torting who?

[Where's George?]

....puts at risk years of statistics that prove conclusively that the average number of times a WG bill will be logged is just about 0??

 

What are you trying to say here? What statistics?

 

I'd give some thought to trying to partner with Geocaching.com in some fashion.  It seems people want to combine the two - why fight it when everyone could potentially benefit from it???

 

Which is exactly why I registered geogeorging.com/.net. I'll have to talk with Jeremy about logo usage and such, but it's possible to create a separate site that allows people to enter and hit GC bills to their hearts content, with a separate and distinct URL, and I can remove all that noise from WG. The back end engine already runs both Where's George? and Where's Willy? (Canadian version of WG), it shouldn't be too hard to expand it to handle another site with separate rules, reports and database.

Edited September 13, 2005 by Where's George?