Frs/gmrs Radio Frequency Question

[+Allanon]

OK, so I bought a pair of nice radios without knowing that the GMRS part needed an $80 license to use.

 

Reading the FAQ I see that the FRS channel to use is #2, but which frequency is that?

 

Channel 2 on my radio is a GMRS channel, but if I knew the frequency of channel 2 on a FRS radio I could probably match it.

 

Thanks for anyone that can help.

 

p.s. - I am thinking of getting the license anyway, but I didn't want to get into trouble in the mean time.

[+Team Dougherty]

FRS

 

CHANNEL FREQUENCY

01 462.5625

02 462.5875

03 462.6125

04 462.6375

05 462.6625

06 462.6875

07 462.7125

08 467.5625

09 467.5875

10 467.6125

11 467.6375

12 467.6625

13 467.6875

14 467.7125

 

Paul

 

Team Dougherty

[+Allanon]

Unfortunately, those channels/frequencies match the table in my Op/Owners Manual...and Channel 2 is in the GMRS power level.

 

Guess we need the licenses.

 

Thanks for the help.

[+Team Tigger International]

Generally the FRS/GMRS radios frequencies are broken down as two sets. The first 14 are FRS, and the remained are GMRS channels. To the best of my knowledge, if you're on the FRS channels, you're not violating FCC regulations by not having a license as long as you're not transmitting at a high power level.

I'll just pop over and check that and post a URL to confirm.

 

FCC regulations for FRS

FCC regulations for GMRS

 

Wulf

Edited March 24, 2005 by Team Tigger International

[+Allanon]

And I doubt I'll get an answer to this, but for those out there that know they have Dual Service radios, did you get the license?

 

Edited to delete the duplicate FCC links provided by Team Tigger International. Thanks!

 

Unfortunately, the radios I purchased (Midland, model GPX-400) states that the channel range 8-14 are the lower power FRS, licensless, channels. The #2 channel that is 'cacher' standard is a GMRS power level.

 

So the person that I'm sharing the 2-pack with and I either get licences or risk the chance of being caught.

Edited March 24, 2005 by Allanon

[+Team Tigger International]

I've never even checked to see what power level ours use. You could always use the alternate channel 12.

 

Then again, the Cobras we bought never even mentioned licenses.

 

Wulf

[+Team Dougherty]

Allanon,

 

Most FRS/GMRS radios have 22 channels. The first 14 are FRS at 1/2 watt the remaing 8 are gmrs @ 2 watts. I tried researching your model number but could not find it.'

 

Paul

[+nittany dave]

Unfortunately, the radios I purchased (Midland, model GPX-400) states that the channel range 8-14 are the lower power FRS, licensless, channels. The #2 channel that is 'cacher' standard is a GMRS power level.

My radios allow me to select whether to use FRS or GMRS power on the first 14 channels. That way I can use channel 2 without a license because I would NEVER do anything against the law.

[+Allanon]

My radios allow me to select whether to use FRS or GMRS power on the first 14 channels. That way I can use channel 2 without a license because I would NEVER do anything against the law.

Re-reading the OP Manual, I see that I can change the Transmit power level as well...High, Medium or Low...Maybe just to play it safe I'll turn it down a bit...

[Golden_Spike]

maybe i'm just ignorant, but how would you get caught? does the FCC have people that sit around and listen to a scanner and then go track people down and check ther licences or something?

 

if thats the case i'll stop paying my taxes in protest

[+sbell111]

I wonder if the FCC is shocked every time a private citizen pays that fee?

[+Spencersb]

I wonder if the FCC is shocked every time a private citizen pays that fee?

Not

 

more like

 

Although, I admit I've looked into getting the license myself, since I did the same thing Allanon did.

[+olbluesguy]

Shocked?....

They are probably rolling on the floor laughing.

Back in the old days of CB radio you needed a lic.too,but nobody bought one,so they gave up trying.

[+Gloom]

maybe i'm just ignorant, but how would you get caught? does the FCC have people that sit around and listen to a scanner and then go track people down and check ther licences or something?

 

if thats the case i'll stop paying my taxes in protest

acutally... no. But there are people (especially Amatuer Radio operators) who monitor the frequencies for violations like this. If they find you are operating in violation of the rules they will turn you into the FCC who will then conduct an investigation. The airwaves (at least in the US) in the "public" bands are mostly a self-policing community and many people spend a lot of time trying to keep them all from becoming the cesspool that CB has become.

 

That being said, it'd be VERY hard for them to determine in the field what power level you are transmitting at without physically looking at your transmitter or being close enough that they could measure your power emissions. Your chances of being caught are almost none. Not that I'm advocating not getting the license.

[+top pin]

Back in the 80's a hot air balloon company I was working for at the time had GMR radios. About a month after we started using them a van pulled up to the landing site of the balloon and 2 very official looking gentleman interogated the pilot on the use of his radios, licenses etc. The radios ended up getting confiscated right there on the spot. In the end I believe the fine was suspended upon the operator getting his license and the radios were returned. It caused a ton of paperwork. Obviously back then I'm sure we were the only one using the channel at the time. Also listening to the radio chatter every day during a certain time frame it wouldnt have been to hard to figure out where the signal was being broadcasted. A pilot telling a ground crewman he's gonna land in the farm field with so and so feature or certain color of cows is pretty obvious to the most casual listener.

I wouldnt broadcast near a major airport or anything like that even nowadays. Ya never know who you might upset. Obviously a area with only sasquatch to complain might be a different story now.

[+bigredmed]

[That being said, it'd be VERY hard for them to determine in the field what power level you are transmitting at without physically looking at your transmitter or being close enough that they could measure your power emissions. Your chances of being caught are almost none. Not that I'm advocating not getting the license.

True, you chances of being caught are not great, and your chances of conviction are small, but your chances of needing to mainline Zantac for the next 6 months and pay for expensive communications law specialists to defend you are reason enough to cough up the $80.

 

Another way to think of the fee is that this money is used to protect your ability to communicate on the radios you already bought.

 

When CB was licensed, it was a useful entry level unit. Good range, not much of a learning curve to get your license. When CB went unlicensed, look what happened. 40 channels with either nothing on or some idiot out pumping 4 letter words into the air about some hooker at a truckstop.

 

The FCC has its faults at the policy level, but at the mechanical level, they do OK.

Edited March 24, 2005 by bigredmed

[+JohnnyVegas]

Shocked?....

They are probably rolling on the floor laughing.

Back in the old days of CB radio you needed a lic.too,but nobody bought one,so they gave up trying.

Actually back in teh day of CB radio people were getting the license, but the FCC could not keep up with the demand so the requirement was done away with. When you had your apllication in to the FCC your were allowed to use you zip code as part of you call sign, I think my was KJI94901, when I got my Lic, my call became KDM4662.

 

Once the Lic requirement went away so do any usefullness of CB radios do to the type of operators that wound up on it.

[HIPS-meister]

This license-fee is very nominal, and the penalties for unlicensed broadcasts can, of course, be severe. But maybe that's not the point. Maybe there's something to be said for "you get what you pay for."

 

The CB bands are useless, polluted with vulgar people who essentially cannot be stopped. Contrast this with the discipline of the (licensed) Amateur Radio bands, where not only are the participants clearly identified by means of call-signs, but the entire use of the frequencies is treated with obvious and rather formal respect. That sort of discipline, which owes itself in part to the license requirement, is what makes these bands such a joy to use.

 

P.S. If you haven't looked into the Amateur Radio licensing requirements lately, "code is gone for 2-meters" and these licenses are now quite easy to get. In the long run you might find them to be a much more satisfactory communications solution than the already-crowded FRS/GMRS bands.

 

73S DE KC7HEA...

[+Allanon]

After all the investigation I did in my spare time today...right...I've decided it's a 'truth in advertising' fault. If I'd known that transmit power levels affected distance (I know, an electronics trained person like me should have known it, but I digress), I'd have chosen more carefully...

 

Having said that, I'm just paranoid enough to get the license even if I don't really need to...and the fact that the license agency takes Discover card (and I happen to have a credit on the card), it makes it a bit easier to take the plunge.

 

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. It was greatly appreciated. Hopefully this thread can help others as well.

[+DJ Calamari]

Ok I am confused by all of this. I have some Cobra Micro Talk radios, that I got at Fred Meyers, and they have 14 "channels" and you can fine tune these up to 38 different degrees.

 

For instance: Channel 1.27 or 14.38, etc.

 

Are these FRS, or the GMRS? If I put them on channel 2.0, will I possibly hear the other geocachers in my area?

Edited March 25, 2005 by DJ Calamari

[+Allanon]

Similar to these?

 

http://www.rivermarinesupply.com/xcart/cat...Value_Pack.html

 

If so, than yes...they are FRS radios and if other cachers in your area are using them then you may be able to communicate with them.

[+JohnnyVegas]

Just get a ham radio license $10.00 for ten years, a very easy test, radios that will access repeaters all over the world.

[+Alan2]

maybe i'm just ignorant, but how would you get caught? does the FCC have people that sit around and listen to a scanner and then go track people down and check ther licences or something?

 

if thats the case i'll stop paying my taxes in protest

Gotcha Golden Spike! I'm undercover Inspector Joules Erg and this is my loyal sidekick Zap. No I don't use a scanner; I prefer monitoring this forum. You almost got away with it because this topic should have been in the Ham Radio section of this forum that I regularly check. But Zap smelled something was up and pawed my attention. We'll be awaiting your application immmediately or risk confiscation.

[Golden_Spike]

[+Allanon]

You almost got away with it because this topic should have been in the Ham Radio section of this forum that I regularly check.

LMAO...it's not in that forum for a very specific reason... ;-)

[+scott9282]

Just as a matter of curiousity, assuming I had a ham license, would a hand held ham radio (geez, try and say that sentence fast) be able to function on the FRS band?

 

I know they can be tuned to many frequencies, is FRS or GMRS amongst those freqs?

[+EWDaron10]

Ok I am confused by all of this. I have some Cobra Micro Talk radios, that I got at Fred Meyers, and they have 14 "channels" and you can fine tune these up to 38 different degrees.

 

You have 14 channels that are the FRS channels. The "degrees" that you refer to are privacy codes. There are 38 of these that can be selected for each channel in an attempt to reduce interference from other users. The other users that you plan to communicate with must be using the same privacy code. My Codra radios are both FRS and GMRS (I have a license) and I have it set to channel 2 with the privacy code set to 00. I just hope others that use FRS/GMRS for geocaching also use this combination. I haven't seen anything posted in reference to the privacy codes.

 

Ernie

[+DJ Calamari]

Thanks, both of you guys, for clearing that up.

[+bigredmed]

Just as a matter of curiousity, assuming I had a ham license, would a hand held ham radio (geez, try and say that sentence fast) be able to function on the FRS band?

 

I know they can be tuned to many frequencies, is FRS or GMRS amongst those freqs?

No, its not legal to broadcast from a HAM HT on the FRS and GMRS bands as we get too much power.

 

Your FRS radio is limited to about 1/5 of what a normal Ham HT gets (1 watt vs 5 watts). The Ham HT can also access repeaters on 2 meters and 70 cm bands (as well as 1.25 meters if you have the 3 band model.) The repeaters on these bands are either local repeaters which will extend your range to 50 miles or so, or they are linked (by WIN system, IRLP, or Echolink) in which case they can boom out for a long way. IRLP and Echolink are internet based linking systems that will let you sit in your church parking lot in Omaha and talk about weather with some guys in Juneau and Anchorage.

 

All for $14 for 10 years and a 35 question test that is so easy even I passed it.

[+JohnnyVegas]

No, its not legal to broadcast from a HAM HT on the FRS and GMRS bands as we get too much power.

 

And even if you turned down to power of the Ham radio you would still be in Violation because ham radio are not type accepted for FRS or GRMS.

 

Read the secnd enforcement action

FCC enforcmants

 

IRLP and Echolink are internet based linking systems that will let you sit in your church parking lot in Omaha and talk about weather with some guys in Juneau and Anchorage.

 

Or from your you HT in your living to Moscow Russia

Edited March 25, 2005 by JohnnyVegas

[Clan Riffster]

An interesting topic. Here's a bit of a twist;

I'm a Deputy Sheriff in Florida. I was dispatched to a disturbance between neighbors that involved one guy with a Ham broadcasting, wreaking havok on his neighbor's TV, stereo, portable phone, etc. When I made contact with the FCC, I was told that the Ham operator was in violation of FCC code something-or-other, but they could not do anything about it because their enforcement division had been closed due to budget cuts.

 

I asked the FCC guy to clarify, and he told me they can no longer enforce any FCC violations. He got a little pissed at me when I asked him, "What's the point in having a law you won't enforce?", and our conversation went down hill from there.

 

Personally, I advocate getting the license, but that's just me.

[+Allanon]

LMAO...so the FCC can't enforce the HAM or GMRS frequencies/license issues...but they can make my local radio station stop playing "Jet Airliner" because it has a 'bad word' in it?

 

I refuse to say more because I don't want to start a flame war...

 

Sad, just sad.

[+leatherman]

At least they have the resources to go after Janet Jackson and that socialist/communist Howard Stern.

[coolclay]

Screw The FCC, if you buy a radio you should be able to use it without a stinkin license. I probably have so many violations with my rino 130, like using the GMRS repeater stations, without the repeater owners permission, and who knows what else I need a license for. If they want to track me down let them come find me. I believe the airwaves should be free to a certain extent. There are much more important things the FCC should do then police and moniter the airwaves.

[+DeskJocky]

Screw The FCC, if you buy a radio you should be able to use it without a stinkin license. I probably have so many violations with my rino 130, like using the GMRS repeater stations, without the repeater owners permission, and who knows what else I need a license for. If they want to track me down let them come find me. I believe the airwaves should be free to a certain extent. There are much more important things the FCC should do then police and moniter the airwaves.

While I have to agree with the above Howard Stern comment; this has gone way off topic...

 

Radio waves should be free? Boy what is to stop me from broadcasting on my local police/fire/ems frequencys then? Or how about transmitting on the TV audio frequencies. How about about people who us (illegally) 10 meter linear amps on 11 meters (CBs) and that stomps all over legal 11 meters communications in Europe?

 

The FCC radio enfourcement division is alive and well...

[cacheman22]

Leatherman wrote:

 

PEACE is merely the selfish and delusional desire to maintain the complacency experienced between WARS.

GOD bless the United States of America. Support our troops by supporting our President! The United States of America, and all it's representatives, went to WAR. Not just George W. Bush.

STOP the PETTY DESCENT!

 

Don't argue with me, I'm always RIGHT!

 

 

Do you really mean "STOP the PETTY DISSENT?"

 

I won't argue with you because you are always right.

[coolclay]

I said "I believe the airwaves should be free to a certain extent". Yes obviously there should be restricted frequencies, but what i meant was free in a monetary sense. You shouldn't have to pay the FCC $80 to use a $20 radio. It is not like the FCC is providing you a service or anything

[gridlox]

Screw The FCC, if you buy a radio you should be able to use it without a stinkin license. I probably have so many violations with my rino 130, like using the GMRS repeater stations, without the repeater owners permission, and who knows what else I need a license for. If they want to track me down let them come find me. I believe the airwaves should be free to a certain extent. There are much more important things the FCC should do then police and moniter the airwaves.

Talk Hard. Steal the Air.

 

[+Allanon]

This is going in a direction that was not the original topic of discussion... ...so I'm going to close it.

 

Thanks for all those that offered assistance and information.

 

Cheers.