If You Don't Like It Take Your Ball & Go Home

August 4, 2004

I would like to make a point and will take the flaming I get to get it across. If you don't like something on here then don't play anymore if you can't handle it. I just wonder sometimes when people go to a place to tell them about Geocaching and give them a brochure what those people think when they come to the forums and read some of the stuff on here. We look like a bunch of 6 year olds in kindergarten. The good stuff that goes on here gets overlooked.... example being Auntiewiesel saving the mystery animal when they see another subject about whining and crying that someone doesn't like something. Rules are rules and like we do in our everyday lives we conform to them. If we don't we face the punishment for not comforming. I have yet to read anything on here that is anywhere near being so unfair that the masses can't stand it. There are no rules on here like certain cachers need to go to the back of the bus or if you are less than 6 feet tall you can't geocache. It is all fair and if you don't like something don't log onto Geocaching anymore or accept it is what it is and live with it.

August 4, 2004

Having a bad day, krn?

2.2k · August 4, 2004

sounds like a reasonable day to me.

5.3k · August 4, 2004

It's just a bunch of opions, who cares, geeezee waaaaaaaaaahhhhh waaaaah waahhhh

August 4, 2004

I purposely have waited to post this for a few weeks so no one thinks I was picking on them or pointing them out. Not having a bad day just decided things seemed calm today and now would be a good time so say what I felt I needed to say. Why cry when it changes nothing was all I was trying to say.

August 4, 2004

3.9k · August 4, 2004

example being Auntiewiesel saving the mystery animal

Pretty sure that's a rodent actually. Sorry, what was the question. dadgum A.D.D. kicking in again.

2.7k · August 4, 2004

You betcha. This avatar will be back the next time I get sick of the forums.

2k · August 4, 2004

Good points krn.

I think members that have been around for awhile also need to remember when there is a new post on virtuals or some of the other 'beat a dead horse' subjects, we need to remember that not everyone is a regular in the forums and don't read every previous post on a subject before they post.

Edited August 4, 2004 by Eric K

August 4, 2004

What about a pinned whining thread to keep all the whining out of the rest of the forum? Even the whining about the whining could go there. And the whining about the whining about the whining. And.....

2.5k · August 4, 2004

You also have to remember... For alot of people/situations, what's the point in posting if everything is hunky dory? Perhaps you all would rather have a post every day from someone going "I went right up to the lightpole and took the cache and signed the log and there weren't any muggles! WOO HOO!" or "Hey, guess what, my cords were right on today, and the weather was perfect for a hike! Plus, the cache was dry!"

Because, yeah, stuff like that does happen, but I think the majority of the people that come in the forums come in because they have a question/comment/issue and want to discuss it with a large group of other people that are in the same situations that they are. Someone has a problem, they trouble shoot it. Here in the forums, there's a large group of people to offer advice.

And ditto what Eric said about the dead horse - remember, chances are that YOU asked about that (or at least thought the question but didn't ask) at some point, too, hoping someone was nice enough to answer a question for you. Not only that, answers to questions do change. How long ago was it that someone asked how you could make a locationless and there was an answer to it? Can't do that anymore. Or how many times have you changed what's in your cache pack/what your signature item is? I bet your list of favorite caches changes, too... Just remember, it was new to you once, and the answer might change in the six months since someone got flamed for asking the last time.

3.9k · August 4, 2004

You betcha. This avatar will be back the next time I get sick of the forums.

Hey I just realized something... go check the Mystery Rodent topic...

August 4, 2004

We look like a bunch of 6 year olds in kindergarten.

Not all of us look like 6 year olds.... some of us are older and taller

8.4k · August 4, 2004

Wow. Not even original. The "whining about other's whining" thing has been done time and again.

Can we get a markwell, or three, on this? I pay so little attention to these types of threads that I can't think of a good markwell myself. Ummmm, not gonna waste the effort.....

2.1k · August 4, 2004

I think Snoogans is right. Beyond that, a dose of your own medicine would go a long way here. I'll paraphrase your own post for you:

If you don't like the whining in the forums, feel free to take *your* ball and go home. You can geocache just fine without coming in here and having to abuse yourself by reading other people's opinions, no matter how purile or useless you think they are. In fact, I'd even go so far as to suggest that the people that whine here are at least passionate about how they see the game. You? You're just a masochist.

While you may simply sheep up and conform to all the rules ever presented to you, some of us recognize the more communal nature of this game and hope to effect change through discussion with whatever part of the community wants to discuss those changes. Rules aren't made to be broken, but they are made to be adjustable. The only way that adjustment occurs will be either totalitarianism (top-down declarations) or democracy (each voice gets heard). These forums are an extension of that second aspect while also being a meeting hall for discussion of other topics of interest.

Without these forums, something like the original stash plaque would have been archived and disappeared with only locals who hadn't found it yet or those with it on their watchlist having even heard a peep. There are issues that get resolved here for the benefit of the community.

On a final note, not only is your post ironic in its own nature (and most people who have posted the same opinion before have at least had the awareness to note it) but to use the Blues Brothers...two of the quintessential rules-shirkers in popular culture...as your avatar while doing it, is enough to make John Belushi AND Dan Akroyd roll in their graves...and Dan Akroyd isn't even dead yet.

/flame off...there, you got what you asked for

EDIT: Hmm, penultimate is specific to the second-to-last...as opposed to second-to-extreme (which could be second-to-best as well) which is what I thought at first...oh well, now they're the quintessential rules-shirkers...

Edited August 4, 2004 by ju66l3r

5.3k · August 4, 2004

I think Snoogans is right. Beyond that, a dose of your own medicine would go a long way here. I'll paraphrase your own post for you:

If you don't like the whining in the forums, feel free to take *your* ball and go home. You can geocache just fine without coming in here and having to abuse yourself by reading other people's opinions, no matter how purile or useless you think they are. In fact, I'd even go so far as to suggest that the people that whine here are at least passionate about how they see the game. You? You're just a masochist.

While you may simply sheep up and conform to all the rules ever presented to you, some of us recognize the more communal nature of this game and hope to effect change through discussion with whatever part of the community wants to discuss those changes. Rules aren't made to be broken, but they are made to be adjustable. The only way that adjustment occurs will be either totalitarianism (top-down declarations) or democracy (each voice gets heard). These forums are an extension of that second aspect while also being a meeting hall for discussion of other topics of interest.

Without these forums, something like the original stash plaque would have been archived and disappeared with only locals who hadn't found it yet or those with it on their watchlist having even heard a peep. There are issues that get resolved here for the benefit of the community.

On a final note, not only is your post ironic in its own nature (and most people who have posted the same opinion before have at least had the awareness to note it) but to use the Blues Brothers...two of the penultimate rules-shirkers in popular culture...as your avatar while doing it, is enough to make John Belushi AND Dan Akroyd roll in their graves...and Dan Akroyd isn't even dead yet.

/flame off...there, you got what you asked for

Wow...nice post ju66l3r...well said.

(and thanks for Nomar)

1.8k · August 4, 2004

If you don't like the whining in the forums, feel free to take *your* ball and go home. You can geocache just fine without coming in here and having to abuse yourself by reading other people's opinions, no matter how purile or useless you think they are. In fact, I'd even go so far as to suggest that the people that whine here are at least passionate about how they see the game. You? You're just a masochist.

While you may simply sheep up and conform to all the rules ever presented to you, some of us recognize the more communal nature of this game and hope to effect change through discussion with whatever part of the community wants to discuss those changes. Rules aren't made to be broken, but they are made to be adjustable. The only way that adjustment occurs will be either totalitarianism (top-down declarations) or democracy (each voice gets heard). These forums are an extension of that second aspect while also being a meeting hall for discussion of other topics of interest.

Without these forums, something like the original stash plaque would have been archived and disappeared with only locals who hadn't found it yet or those with it on their watchlist having even heard a peep. There are issues that get resolved here for the benefit of the community.

Now, I don't want to put words in your mouth here, so correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you just spoke up in favor of whiners. From here on out, all whiners are OK in your book? Just askin'.

1.3k · August 4, 2004

If you don't like the forums, don't read them.

Most geocachers don't.

sd

August 4, 2004

if you don't like something don't log onto Geocaching anymore or accept it is what it is and live with it

August 4, 2004

On a final note, not only is your post ironic in its own nature (and most people who have posted the same opinion before have at least had the awareness to note it) but to use the Blues Brothers...two of the penultimate rules-shirkers in popular culture...as your avatar while doing it, is enough to make John Belushi AND Dan Akroyd roll in their graves...and Dan Akroyd isn't even dead yet.

I agree 100% with everything you've said, ju66l3r, but I think you need to look up penultimate in the dictionary - I don't think one would characterize The Blues Brothers as the "second-last" rules-shirkers in popular culture. :blink:

The irony of using TBBs as an avatar when whining about whiners was priceless. <_<

August 4, 2004

The thing I've noticed is that there are quite a few other listing sites out there that don't have restrictions on this or that. Their forums are practically dead. What's that tell ya??

2.1k · August 4, 2004

I agree 100% with everything you've said, ju66l3r, but I think you need to look up penultimate in the dictionary - I don't think one would characterize The Blues Brothers as the "second-last" rules-shirkers in popular culture.

Duh...that was dumb. I even looked up totalitarianism, because I often confuse the political schools..but never my superlatives!

I believe the word I meant to type is: quintessential...and I fixed it.

4.7k · August 4, 2004

The thing I've noticed is that there are quite a few other listing sites out there that don't have restrictions on this or that. Their forums are practically dead. What's that tell ya??

that nobody goes there?

August 4, 2004

I guess if someone wants to paraphrase anothers statement to make their argument and henpeck certain aspects of their statement then that is your choice. As for my choice of using the Blues Brothers as my avatar....If you read the statement below it and remember the part of the movie when it was said (if you can't I can probably find the clip and email it to you) it kind of proves the point of what original post meant. The nazis were having a rally to speak their narrow minded views. Kind of like some people on here who pick one aspect of the game and run it into the ground and try to get everyone to back them. Example being "I don't like travel bugs they take up space in the cache we should get rid of them they are dumb." What did the blues brothers do, they ran them off the bridge. My original post wasn't about general discussion, it was about some of the absolute, no doubt about it crybaby crap that happens here and some of the we should do it this way because it is what I want.

Edited August 4, 2004 by krn187

August 4, 2004

If you want to henpeck my statement and say I am being a cry baby or whiner for making a valid point then fine. But I have to argue your point since you brought it up. If the masses wanted to put explosive devices and drugs in caches then we should do it because as you said[While you may simply sheep up and conform to all the rules ever presented to you, some of us recognize the more communal nature of this game and hope to effect change through discussion with whatever part of the community wants to discuss those changes. Rules aren't made to be broken, but they are made to be adjustable. The only way that adjustment occurs will be either totalitarianism (top-down declarations) or democracy (each voice gets heard). These forums are an extension of that second aspect while also being a meeting hall for discussion of other topics of interest.

] Where is the line drawn in you book? When does the adjusting stop? Last before you can answer you have to realize that you can't. Why you ask, it is not up to you. There will alway be the powers that be. Just like this government you used to henpeck my statement, there will always be someone or someones that have to say knock it off it isn't going to happen.

2.1k · August 4, 2004

Where is the line drawn in you book? When does the adjusting stop?

Ah, the slippery slope defense. The line drawn in my book is close to the one drawn now, but with more leniancy for virtuals and a movement towards open sourcing the database. Thanks for asking!

The adjustment never stops. That's the great part about adjustments! We are constantly in a fluctuating state where subtle changes will keep us truly balanced on how the general terms of this activity can be defined. If geocaching had truly behaved as you advocate ('the rules are the rules'), then we'd still have virtual caches on every molding tennis shoe from Boston to Beirut. The introduction of a qualitative "Wow" factor was a rules change that for better and worse has come into being. The activity as it stands today and the rules that you are so happy to conform to are not the same as when the activity started and will not be the same in 3 years.

Last before you can answer you have to realize that you can't.

I just did.

Why you ask, it is not up to you. There will alway be the powers that be. Just like this government you used to henpeck my statement, there will always be someone or someones that have to say knock it off it isn't going to happen.

The decisions to change those rules are enacted by TPTB, but excepting technical issues and the occasional custodial preference, Jeremy has enacted guidelines that appeal to the largest portion of the whole group. Call it good business sense to follow your clientele's wants or call it community involvement in a community game...that argument is moot (arguable without going anywhere). Either way, the fact remains that someone saying "it isn't going to happen" and telling people to "go home if you don't like it here" are not mutually inclusive ideas (they don't go hand-in-hand) and the second just isn't based on any sound argument (that you or anyone else with that same conclusion has ever presented before).

Discussion of guidelines and ideas for this activity and website will continue in topics on this forum even when the answer has previously been "it isn't going to happen". Whether these discussions continue to take place is not up to you or your wants and is also well within the rules to which you want me to conform.

If you want to henpeck my statement and say I am being a cry baby or whiner for making a valid point then fine.

Here, calm down...I think some Nietzsche and Matthew will do you some good:

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

- Beyond Good and Evil

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

- Matthew 7:3 (KJV)

Those quotes are taken from the wikipedia page for "psychological projection". Look it up.

22k · August 5, 2004

Actually it's he who fights too long against dragons.

A better quote would be:

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Nietzsche

August 5, 2004

Why is it you continue to avoid the bread and butter of the argument/ statement?

22k · August 5, 2004

Forget it krn, most of the responses are going to be "I know what you are, but what am I?"

August 5, 2004

Argue this smart guy, my original point has had nothing to do with the things you have brought up. I believe you got yourself caught up in something without taking time to understand the statement. After you took the offense without complete comprehension of my statement you have changed the subject to fit your argument and justify it. You put me on the defensive end causing me to have to argue with you on your feelings of what you thought I meant by my statement. You have a quality of twisting words and paraphrasing my statements to fit your arguement but like a politician you have not replied to the original meaning of the post to which I did my best to clarify and you chose to not remark upon it or ask for furthur detail. Unlike a political debate you can not flim flam me and try to outsmart me by pulling out quotes trying to confuse me and twice now you have had to be corrected by others for your lack of knowledge on the subject, quote or definition.

August 5, 2004

The thing I've noticed is that there are quite a few other listing sites out there that don't have restrictions on this or that. Their forums are practically dead. What's that tell ya??

that nobody goes there?

Or they don't have anything to argue about, maybe??

1.8k · August 5, 2004

"The Dog which barks once gets heard. The dog which barks all night gets whipped."

Old Klingon Proverb

August 5, 2004

I know elf, but I find it funny that one can pull something that has nothing to do with the bread and butter of a discussion and try to make someone look wrong when they can't come up with anything about the real subject.

5.3k · August 5, 2004

Here's my question to you, krn.

Do you vote in elections, or just move out of the country if something is not the way you like it?

Would women or blacks have the right to vote if they didn't protest?

I agree that some people make a**es of themselves sometimes, but I think everyone here has the right to stomp their feet if they feel like it. It may not always be the most effective form of communication, but it is communication, and TPTB have given us these forums for that reason.

August 5, 2004

If you read my original post that is what I was doing. My point valid and I was stamping my foot. It has completely been taken out of context and been twisted. JU66 changed this into an argument by paraphrasing my statement into what he believed was what I meant and decided to henpeck it. He has made me defend myself on things that I never said or meant.

5.3k · August 5, 2004

If you read my original post that is what I was doing. My point valid and I was stamping my foot. It has completely been taken out of context and been twisted. JU66 changed this into an argument by paraphrasing my statement into what he believed was what I meant and decided to henpeck it. He has made me defend myself on things that I never said or meant.

Sorry, but I read it to say that you thought the rules were fair and if anybody else didn't like the rules LEAVE. It seems just about everyone read it that way. Perhaps you didn't word it properly to get across your real message. What were you trying to say?

August 5, 2004

<---- :huh:

Edited August 5, 2004 by Cache Viking

August 5, 2004

Yes in the wide view of it all the rules are fair, there are some things that should possibly be changed but there is nothing so outrageous on here that the small minority of people complain about. If you read my example in my clarification post I used the example of I hate TB lets get rid of them.

August 5, 2004

And I believe about the first 5 people who read my post understood what I meant without any clarification.

August 5, 2004

<snip> ... As for my choice of using the Blues Brothers as my avatar....If you read the statement below it and remember the part of the movie when it was said ... <snip> ... it kind of proves the point of what original post meant. The nazis were having a rally to speak their narrow minded views. Kind of like some people on here who pick one aspect of the game and run it into the ground and try to get everyone to back them. ... <snip> ... What did the blues brothers do, they ran them off the bridge. ....

See -- now I do understand the point of your original post.

You don't agree with someone's point of view so you don't think anybody should have the chance to hear it. In fact you think they should be run of a bridge.

For some reason I get just a little more than worried about people that don't want to allow someone the chance to speak their point of view; than the person who is speaking the point of view. No matter how "narrow minded" I or anyone else may think it is.

How narrow minded is it not to allow someone to express their point of view? But hey I am more than willing to allow you to show how narrow minded you are. I just think you owe the other person the same respect.

August 5, 2004

There is a difference in trying to get a change for the better of the community and someone trying to get a change for their own personal benefit. And once again a snip of a paragraph taken out of context can be used in very poweful ways.

Those statements were made in defense of this.

On a final note, not only is your post ironic in its own nature (and most people who have posted the same opinion before have at least had the awareness to note it) but to use the Blues Brothers...two of the quintessential rules-shirkers in popular culture...as your avatar while doing it, is enough to make John Belushi AND Dan Akroyd roll in their graves...and Dan Akroyd isn't even dead yet.

My defense of being told I follow all the rules was this.

If you read the statement below it and remember the part of the movie when it was said (if you can't I can probably find the clip and email it to you) it kind of proves the point of what original post meant. The nazis were having a rally to speak their narrow minded views. Kind of like some people on here who pick one aspect of the game and run it into the ground and try to get everyone to back them. Example being "I don't like travel bugs they take up space in the cache we should get rid of them they are dumb." What did the blues brothers do, they ran them off the bridge. My original post wasn't about general discussion, it was about some of the absolute, no doubt about it crybaby crap that happens here and some of the we should do it this way because it is what I want.

Edited August 5, 2004 by krn187

4.7k · August 5, 2004

Why is it you continue to avoid the bread and butter of the argument/ statement?

there was bread and butter here?

August 5, 2004

Bread and butter meaning the point. Not the words that were stuffed in my mouth.

4.7k · August 5, 2004

ah. it's not so much that i was unable to find a point, i just had a radical failure to grasp why i should care.

if i really have to think about it REAL hard, i'd guess i'd have to say it's a privatey owned listign service and they can do what they want.

i can ask for what i want. so can anybody else.

i grow weary of this nonsense. tremble in my presence, for i have a large nose.

August 5, 2004

I guess it is not possible that a change for the better of the community can also be of a personal benefit for someone?

Your original post is in total above and you felt the need to post the same thing again (a little like those people you complain about who whine about the same thing over and over again). I snipped to save space and don't see where anything is taken out of context. You said it "proves the point of what original post meant". So are you now trying to take your own quotes out of context? And if you are really confused about an argument that uses your own words against it, either in part or whole, then maybe the argument is confused to begin with.

But I have to be honest I don't think I have ever heard someone say we should do it this way because it is not what I want. Maybe it has happened, I just can't say that I have ever heard it.

But in the end it seems like you are OK with change as long as it is what you want. Else, as has been mentioned earlier, you would be looking for caches that had food in them, were buried or who knows what else would be going on. And actually lets take one step back and if not for the people who were cry babies and asking for change, SA would not have been turned off and you would not have any caches to look for in the first place. So was that change of a benefit to the community or to you personally? I would think both.

August 5, 2004

I am choosing not to argue anymore since there is no point. if people want to say lets get rid of travel bugs because they don't like them and other stupid crap that does not hurt the game fine. If that is how it ends up I guess I am out my 48 bucks in tb tags. I have never had a problem with change but somehow it has been construed that my original meaning of this subject was it is krn's way or the highway and the hell with it I don't care anymore. IF YOU UNDERSTAND ENGLISH YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND THAT IT WAS THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE. JM has twisted my words and made things off subject from the original meaning and I don't care anymore. He can think what he wants because in his world he knows all and won't answer a question when asked he side steps it. I will finish my posting on this subject with I know you are but what am I. As for the travel bug example lets get rid of them all and not log them anymore if you spent your money on them tough dookie the minority won. The minority will rule this site. My original point was to the minority and I see they tend to rule here because the majority doesn't post as was stated earlier. When the minority decides no more of this or that then hey you gecachers can't do that anymore. I stood up for a point that as was said I didn't do in life and then was blasted for doing it. Just so happens that I believe I am in the Majority but the rest of them don't post. The majority just wants to play the game and doesn't want to hear people trying to change a good thing. I guess if you are too dumb to understand the general thought of the original post then which no one seems to except a select few than good luck in life. I will leave this post open so you can all get your last words in.

Edited August 5, 2004 by krn187

2.8k · August 5, 2004

The thing I've noticed is that there are quite a few other listing sites out there that don't have restrictions on this or that. Their forums are practically dead. What's that tell ya??

that nobody goes there?

Or they don't have anything to argue about, maybe??

No... the noise you hear are crickets... and they don't have the ability to type.

August 5, 2004

You know what one last post to all that want to argue....you accepted the terms agreements and rules to this site when you joined. I didn't see anywhere on there that said you can change the game if you female dog enough.

2.5k · August 5, 2004

I think that they should make coordinates visible to registered users only .

August 5, 2004

You know what one last post to all that want to argue....you accepted the terms agreements and rules to this site when you joined. I didn't see anywhere on there that said you can change the game if you female dog enough.

I am choosing not to argue anymore since there is no point. ... I will finish my posting on this subject

I thought he was done posting.

I wish there was a little smilie that is scratching his head. This :huh: will have to be close enough.

And it doesn't say anywhere in the TOS that you can't change the game if you female dog enough.

If You Don't Like It Take Your Ball & Go Home

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