Spoilers In The Log - Specifically Photoes

August 3, 2004

Hi just wanted to toss this subject out onto the forum to see what the community thinks of spoilers - specifically photographs. A group of caching friends have been discussing this matter and I've decided to bring it to the forum.

One relatively new local cacher has been posting photos of his finds in the log. Now I don't object photos revealing trades, cache contents, or even the general area of a cache. But some of the photos show the cache itself. For most caches it may not be a problem, but some photos of the caches revealing the camoflage. This in effect, gives away the real challenge in the find.

For example, lets say someone hides a cache inside a carefully constructed tree stump. The finder in question would post a photo of himself posing next to the log with the cache in hand - basically spoiling the hide for anyone who sees the photo.

What should the etiquette for logs? Shouldn't the finder use some common sense and provide some spoiler warning before they look at a picture?

What are your thoughts?

Adam Pierson

August 3, 2004

I just posted a similar subject over at SoCalGeoCachers.com Forums. I have a cache (Founder's Garden Sluice) where people were posting way too many hints, then even some posted photos. To me the cache went from a 4/3 rating to a 2/1 rating, not what I had in mind. Many said email the other cachers who posted or remove the photos, do nothing, or to delete logs. Finally there was some adjustments made by some cachers so I left things alone. My thing is to have everyone have the same experience in finding/retrieving it.

2.8k · August 3, 2004

I personally don't have an issue with it, especially if the pictures are labeled appropriately. You have to individually view a cache log entry or specific image to see it so it's not a spoiler unless the other cacher wants it to be.

2.6k · August 3, 2004

I posted a total spoiler photo once, because I wanted to comment on the tree the cache was hidden under. But I made my comments part of the photo, and I called the image spoiler.jpg. You click on something called "spoiler" you get what you get.

I gave it some thought first, though.

August 3, 2004

Exactly. Even if you don't label your photograph as a spoiler, it automatically says on every cache page that logs may contain spoilers. Click on it, and you risk a spoiler. Of course, if you're like me, I just forge on ahead and look at it anyway, since I have no self-control. But usually by the time I get to the cache, I've forgotten which cache had which spoiler anyway...

38.2k · August 3, 2004

If its a 1, or even 2 star difficulty hide, I don't have a problem with it, because they are suposed to be easy, but anything above that is meant to be difficult and spoiler photos are unacceptable. In many cases the owner went to great lengths to create special camoflage, or find an ingenious hiding spot and to reveal it isn't right.

If it were my cache I'd ask the person to delete the photo and if they refused, I would.

I don't buy the "labeling it a spoiler" method because if the owner wanted a spoiler, he would have included it.

Edited August 3, 2004 by briansnat

August 3, 2004

I personally don't have an issue with it, especially if the pictures are labeled appropriately. You have to individually view a cache log entry or specific image to see it so it's not a spoiler unless the other cacher wants it to be.

All pictures will show up if you look at the cache's gallery page though.

Personally, I wouldn't take offense to a new person posting a spoiler, perhaps they didn't know any better. I will still go look for the cache anyway. As another poster said, by the time I go look for the cache, I usually forget what the spoiler was anyway.

August 3, 2004

I personally don't have an issue with it, especially if the pictures are labeled appropriately. You have to individually view a cache log entry or specific image to see it so it's not a spoiler unless the other cacher wants it to be.

All pictures will show up if you look at the cache's gallery page though.

Personally, I wouldn't take offense to a new person posting a spoiler, perhaps they didn't know any better. I will still go look for the cache anyway. As another poster said, by the time I go look for the cache, I usually forget what the spoiler was anyway.

For example.......yesterday.......the hint was "Do not weep for this willow." So, we looked and looked for a willow tree. Found the cache, but no willow. Turns out that hint was for a different cache that we found later in the day. My memory is crap. LOL.

August 3, 2004

If its a 1, or even 2 star difficulty hide, I don't have a problem with it, because they are suposed to be easy, but anything above that is meant to be difficult and spoiler photos are unacceptable. In many cases the owner went to great lengths to create special camoflage, or find an ingenious hiding spot and to reveal it isn't right.

If it were my cache I'd ask the person to delete the photo and if they refused, I would.

I don't buy the "labeling it a spoiler" method because if the owner wanted a spoiler, he would have included it.

I had issues with what to do with this as well...I wanted to have a nice gallery of images in my profile...but also did not want to have my pics give the cache away...on a couple of caches I did as Auntie did and labeled the pics as possible spoilers...I thought about how to handle it for a long time...I don't want to ruin the fun of the game for anyone...but I also want to record my finds in my gallery...most of the pics are not even close to spoilers...but in the event that I saw something that would make a nice picture and it happened to be near the cache...or the actual cache...I wanted to be able to have that in my gallery...I wish there was a way to have it posted to your gallery without it being on the cache page...

Still torn on this...

-Six

1.8k · August 3, 2004

I just posted a similar subject over at SoCalGeoCachers.com Forums. I have a cache (Founder's Garden Sluice) where people were posting way too many hints, then even some posted photos.

I've never felt the need, but can't you edit out, as owner, things you don't want?

3.5k · August 3, 2004

I was the "phone-a-friend" for a cacher yesterday who was looking for a cache in an area fairly far away from me. When I checked the page for any recent finds and dnfs, I noticed that one finder had posted a picture that he titled with the same name as the cache. I looked at it, made a suggestion, and sure enough there was the cache.

Then I noticed they did the same thing on another find...and another...and another.

It made me look like a freakin' amazing phone-a-friend, but I'm glad this cacher hasn't found any of mine...yet.

Bret

August 3, 2004

I haven't ran into any spoiler pics yet from finders although I have seen finders give away the camo in their logs. I find that equally disturbing. Some people go to a lot of work to create a camo job and I have been known to go back several times before figuring it out. So when people obviously give away the secret it spoils the fun. On the other hand some not so obvious comments can kinda be fun in the logs if they don't give it totally away. When I am caching locally I don't mind going back two, three or more times to find a cache. But when I am traveling I really like to find it the first time so I will read the logs to look for a hint.

7.3k · August 3, 2004

If I put pics in that might be spoilers, I say so in capitol letters.

People don't have to look at them if they don't want to.

August 3, 2004

The problem is that this particular cacher is posting pictures of every cache container camouflaged or not, and not indicating that the image is a spoiler. In some cases the location is also revealed.

7.3k · August 3, 2004

Yeah, that's not cool at all.

2.5k · August 3, 2004

Personally, I don't think I look at the Photos hardly ever - and when I do look at them, it's usually on caches I'm not going to do or caches I've already done, or event caches, which of course are just pics of cool people. I'm not sure I've ever looked at a photo before I've gone to a cache.

Remember, we are warned that logs contain spoilers before we ever get to them, let alone click on the pictures.

August 3, 2004

As to picture spoilers, while the rules do not specifically say you can't, common courtesy and fair play dictate that any picture showing the hide itself or intimate details of the hide should not be allowed to be posted. Some people go to great pains to create a unique hide only to have someone get cute and post a shot of it and therefore compromise the hide.

3.9k · August 3, 2004

I don't like it, Even with a "Spoiler" label. I'd ask the finder nicely to delete it. If they didn't I would delete it for them. Then I would spank them. Really hard. In public.

edit: I guess if it's an easy 1/1 cache hidden under a pile of parallel sticks it wouldn't much of a difference.

Edited August 3, 2004 by JMBella

August 3, 2004

Hey, if this person is a fairly new person maybe someone needs to take him under there wise geocaching wing and give him some help. He would probably love to meet cachers and take to some advice if it is handled in a positive way. Newbies need to learn somewhere. It could be all done in innocence.

7.3k · August 3, 2004

I've only posted "spoiler pictures" a couple of times, and I don't think they really were spoilers.

They were just suggestive enough that I thought that it would be polite to post them as spoilers.

3.9k · August 3, 2004

Hey, if this person is a fairly new person maybe someone needs to take him under there wise geocaching wing and give him some help. He would probably love to meet cachers and take to some advice if it is handled in a positive way. Newbies need to learn somewhere. It could be all done in innocence.

Well put and a great idea.

1.1k · August 3, 2004

I almost always take pictures when im caching, sometimes of the cache itself and contents, and usually of the general area, not really the hiding spot.. although i did that on one of my first finds and the owner sent me flame mail and ended with since your a newbie just remove the pic and i wont delete your log. my first feeling was to send him back e-mail telling him what to go do with himself, especially since his profile says he is a teacher and should know better how to deal with people. but in the end i just sucked it up and did what asked since i was/am a newbie.

on one of my caches thats a multi i had a cacher place coordinates in his log for the final cache and i sent them email asking them to just remove the coordinates..

August 3, 2004

Hi Nekkar & TWA42,

Glad to see you made it here!

If I put the time and effort into putting together a camoflage for a cache, I would want the seekers to have the same experience in the find. I probably would not want spoiler photos at all, however this should be left up to the cache owner on whether or not to allow spoiler photos.

I consider encrypted log entries to be a tool for cachers to use to "cover up" spoilers. Putting a title into a picture would at least give fair warning before venturing into spoiler territory. It doesn't take too much effort to do the same for photos.

I do not believe this is something that needs to be added as a rule. I do believe that it would be courteous to give other cachers a choice on whether or not to view spoilers. I like to read the logs for advice and precautions on attempting a cache.

Adam Pierson

August 3, 2004

I agree with you Adam. Spoiler pictures should not be submitted. While there are no rules dictating the posting of spoilers, common sense, and courtesy to the cache owner by not posting is the right thing to.

August 3, 2004

Hey, if this person is a fairly new person maybe someone needs to take him under there wise geocaching wing and give him some help. He would probably love to meet cachers and take to some advice if it is handled in a positive way. Newbies need to learn somewhere. It could be all done in innocence.

Well put and a great idea.

This exact scenario happened to me just this past week. The newbie in question was just very gung-ho about discovering the sport and I don't think he thought about what his pictures revealed. I very politely let him know and he immediately updated his log. No hard feelings on my end I just didn't want it to spoil the find for others.

In these cases the old saying"a picture is worth a thousand words" says it all...

Edited August 3, 2004 by Ericache

August 3, 2004

I read the forums quite often, but have never posted.

This topic, however, hit a chord with me. I usually cache with my kids and my daughter has her own account (9yrs old). We try to post a lot of pictures, because, hey, this is supposed to fun, right? Anyway, she gets all excited one day because she has an email. We open it and it is someone telling her she is ruining the game for everyone because she has posted a picture of her climbing a tree to the cache. I had it clearly labeled HUGE spoiler and even said in my log that the picture would be a spoiler for those who have not been there! (this was not the cache owner)

Isn't a spoiler picture just like a hint? I mean you have to actually go to another page to see it. If you don't want the hint you don't decrypt. If you don't want to see the spoiler picture, don't click on it? Am I missing something????

Is it mostly the owners that don't want the hint to help others or people who can't help themselves and then get mad when they look???

In thinking about this, I guess it is up to the cache owner to decide what they want. I would have deleted the photo, but the owner never said anything to me!

Edited August 3, 2004 by Nathannah

2.8k · August 3, 2004

Isn't a spoiler picture just like a hint? I mean you have to actually go to another page to see it. If you don't want the hint you don't decrypt. If you don't want to see the spoiler picture, don't click on it? Am I missing something????

I agree.

1.8k · August 3, 2004

Isn't a spoiler picture just like a hint? I mean you have to actually go to another page to see it. If you don't want the hint you don't decrypt. If you don't want to see the spoiler picture, don't click on it? Am I missing something????

Yes, and therein lies the problem. It is up to the OWNER to decide how much information they want to give away about their cache. It is up to the FINDER to be respectful of that. That said, I disagree with someone who is NOT the cache owner emailing your daughter and telling her that she gave too much away...it's not their cache to judge.

While I don't care if someone takes a picture of one of my ammo boxes, there are a few very creative caches where even a subtle hint in the logs will completely give away the hide. For those caches, I have requested that the cachers change their logs or remove their photos if they give too much away...and on rare occasions I have had to delete logs/photos because the person who posted them wouldn't.

Many of the most memorable caches I've ever found were the ones where I had to bo back 3 or 4 times because I had no idea what I was looking for...Had someone told me exactly what, where, and how each of those was hidden, there would have been no challenge whatsoever. In my mind, they're called "spoilers" for the reason. They can spoil the challenge, they can spoil the surprise, and they can spoil the fun.

38.2k · August 3, 2004

Isn't a spoiler picture just like a hint? I mean you have to actually go to another page to see it. If you don't want the hint you don't decrypt. If you don't want to see the spoiler picture, don't click on it? Am I missing something????

It's possible that the owner wants to make the cache difficult for everyone. Not just people who refuse to look at spoilers. Like it or not, there are a lot of geocachers who check out the hints and spoilers before going out on the hunt, which defeats the purpose of the owner going through the trouble of creating a unique container, or cleverly hiding it.

If the owner chooses to have spoilers on his page to make things easier, that's his prerogative, but for someone else to add them and undermine the owners efforts to make the cache hunt a challenging one is thoughtless.

Edited August 3, 2004 by briansnat

August 3, 2004

I agree, it is up to the cache owner. I just was upset that someone thought we were wrecking the game for others.

Anyway, I hadn't been back to the listing in awhile and just checked it out and found this note from the cache owner:

"We are glad you all are enjoying the cache. We have enjoyed seeing the pictures some of you have posted. Just to let you know, we will encrypt any logs that reveal the exact location of the cache."

And guess what! My picture is still there!

In the case of this cache, I guess they don't really care.

August 3, 2004

I did post a COMPLETE spoiler one time on a log for this cache.

But I did so with the owner's permission. After posting my find (but before the picture) I e-mailed the owner a link to where I had the picture in my personal web space. Told him I had a great picture that I thought was pretty cute, but that it was a complete spoiler.

He e-mailed me back that it was too great not to share -- especially since the whole theme of the cache was dog-related!

As a cache seeker, I guess I would not be put off by spoilers. Generally speaking, I enjoy getting to the cache site more than the actual search for the box. So I don't mind a bit of spoiler.

August 3, 2004

If I come across a newbie making a mistake, either posting spoilers, leaving food in caches, posting coords to final stages of multi's, etc....., I just send them a quick, politely worded note. Some newbies do more homework before starting than others.

I've yet to have any backlash. One cacher even asked me to review a revised log to see if it was more appropriate. Since then, they've become a local uber-cacher and one of caching friends.

Just be sure to keep it polite and things should be OK.

August 3, 2004

Personally, I will take pictures at every single cache site I go to and post the pictures online. However, I will never post any picture that may be considered a spoiler. The only place a spoiler picture ever goes is onto my personal CD of all the photos I have taken. I respect the hiders in my area too much to ruin some of the great surprises they have in store for us. Also, many of you will post spoiler pictures. While it is true that fellow cachers could simply not click on them, if you choose to look at any of there other pictures, either on the cache page or on the user's gallery, the picture will pop up there. Unfortunately there is no way around this other then having the cache hider contact the user and 'kindly' ask them to remove the photo.

--Just my two cents--

August 3, 2004

Personally, I will take pictures at every single cache site I go to and post the pictures online. However, I will never post any picture that may be considered a spoiler. The only place a spoiler picture ever goes is onto my personal CD of all the photos I have taken. I respect the hiders in my area too much to ruin some of the great surprises they have in store for us. Also, many of you will post spoiler pictures. While it is true that fellow cachers could simply not click on them, if you choose to look at any of there other pictures, either on the cache page or on the user's gallery, the picture will pop up there. Unfortunately there is no way around this other then having the cache hider contact the user and 'kindly' ask them to remove the photo.

--Just my two cents--

7.3k · August 3, 2004

When I am going to caches out of town, and may not go there ever again, and have a limited time, I look through all of the logs. I actually appreciate all the little sniglets that I can glean to help me find the cache. I know, I know.

But when you are caching with a husband who gets cranky about caching easily, and you are far away from home, and don't have much time, you take whatever you can get.

Spoilers In The Log - Specifically Photoes

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