Now You're Getting Nasty

[+Johnnie Stalkers]

Yeah, I'd really like to have Groundspeak weigh in on this. This is our sport, they're providing a listing service, and answer to us, not the other way around.

It could all be a large misunderstanding, and a one-sided view given to us by a player, that's ok. An approver getting out of hand, that's ok too, fix it and we can all get back to the norm.

did someone say NORM?

[+Cache Viking]

[+PandyBat]

This is where it all began. On May 3, 2000, a five-gallon bucket was placed at this very spot by Dave Ulmer, containing Delorme Topo USA and 2 CD Roms, a cassette recorder, a "George of the Jungle" VHS tape, a Ross Perot book, 4 $1 bills, a slingshot handle, and a can of beans. The coordinates were then listed on the Internet, and modern-day Geocaching was born. Although the original bucket is no longer around, we recognize the importance of that event which happened here and dedicate this ORIGINAL STASH TRIBUTE PLAQUE on behalf of geocachers everywhere. Keeping with tradition, there IS a logbook to sign at this site. It is RIGHT there and very easy to get at. Please do not try to pry up or move the Plaque at all to find it. Thanks go out to Lance Christensen and the Port Blakely Tree Farms, whose land this is located on. Without their cooperation, this would not have been possible. Please continue to show respect to their property while visiting. Many thanks also go out to all the geocachers who made this possible: Junglehair, DapperDanMan, Moun10Bike, -=(GEO)=-, Bitbrain, Mzee & Associates, Team DaSH, Ajetpilot, RJFerret, Badmojoe, Cacheola Crew, GrizzlyJohn, Geospotter, Yumitori, Dalenis, Rothstafari, Spzzmoose, Team GPSaxophone, CacheUsOut, Scoobie10, RomadPilot, Makaio, Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking, and Crashmore. Thanks also go out to Jeremy Irish and the entire crew at Groundspeak for their support of this effort and their dedication to this sport. Let's not forget to say thanks to Dave Ulmer for the great idea.

 

Hope this helps clear things up a bit.

 

Shirley~

Thanks Shirley & Teach2Learn for the history lesson.

 

But it still doesn't answer my other question: How did Team360 get approved to maintain this cache in the first place? Did he live close to it at the time? Because it seems he has to take a plane to the area to maintain it now. That's why I was thinking he had to of lived close to it at one time in order to adopt it but has since moved and still retains ownership of it.

Edited June 27, 2004 by PandyBat

[+GrizzlyJohn]

But it still doesn't answer my other question: How did Team360 get approved to maintain this cache in the first place? ...

No he did not live close.

 

He was the only one willing to do the leg work to get it done. He put in a lot of time and effort as well as his own money to do it. All of this was known as it was being placed and it was approved of at the highest levels of gc.com.

 

Here was a person that got and contiunes to get beat up on the forums and he did a very great thing for the community at large. And this is the thanks.

 

I am also very glad to see all of the responses from TPTB. Let alone from the approver that started all of this, a person who in the past has never avoided expressing their point of view or trying to defend other ill thought out actions. If anybody can say this was anything other than an act of spite please call me, I have some swamp land and bridges for sale.

[+Renegade Knight]

...But it still doesn't answer my other question: How did Team360 get approved to maintain this cache in the first place? Did he live close to it at the time? Because it seems he has to take a plane to the area to maintain it now. That's why I was thinking he had to of lived close to it at one time in order to adopt it but has since moved and still retains ownership of it.

He asked for permission to list the cache on GC.com. He was granted that permission and spend the time and money to place the plaque.

 

He did what he was supposed to do and was given permission by those who were in authority to give it. He asked permission because the cache broke more than a few rules on caches. Not the least of which was he lived nowhere near the area. The long and short of it was he covered all his bases.

[+PandyBat]

Thanks Grizzly and RK!

[+shunra]

The cache has been reactivated.

 

So - what is this thread about, now? Are you guys going to throw gasoline onto the flames until the admins change their mind? Is escalation your purpose? Is this whole issue just an excuse for a gleeful display of bully power play at a moment where the admins have (probably) made a mistake? Please prove me wrong!

 

The cache has been reactivated, either because the admins realized it was a mistake, or by way of a concession to the mob. 360 got the confirmation of support he needed. The admins are clearly taking this seriously enough to discuss the matter among them, and will probably grow through this experience.

 

In the meantime, the sounds on this thread are getting uglier and uglier. It's no longer about the cache, it's a mob, smelling blood, crying for revenge.

 

Cut it out, guys. Ths mods probably won't close this thread, as it would just spark new ones. I suggest 360 take the initiative, acknowledge that he has won this battle, and close the thread before it turns into a war. Nobody needs that.

Edited June 27, 2004 by Shunra

[+norbu]

Well put Shunra. I was wondering myself what was expected. People do make mistakes. I don't want to say anything else, because I really don't want anyone to take what I say the wrong way, which is too easy.

[+El Diablo]

I assumed that 360 started this thread to get the cache unarchived, and it is now active again.

 

There those in here though that will use any vehicle that is handy to bash the Admins. 360 you accomplished your goal, so how about closing the thread before it gets uglier than it already is?

 

El Diablo

[+Renegade Knight]

I reread the original post. The issue wasn't so much that the cache was archived. The real issue is why it was archived to begin with. It should not of happened, it did, and while a few are saying "ok the cache is back, get over it." The larger problem remains. Sweeping it under the rug doesn't solve anything.

[+norbu]

I wasn't saying to sweep it under a rug. I was just saying to accept that someone made a mistake and leave it at that now that it was fixed. It seems silly to expect people to further enflame the issue at this point with explanations or such. The actions speak. Now, if something similar were to happen again, there is this to look back at when deciding what to do then.

What are the solutions that you propose need to be applied at this point? You cannot undo what was done, not anymore than already has been.

[+El Diablo]

I reread the original post. The issue wasn't so much that the cache was archived. The real issue is why it was archived to begin with. It should not of happened, it did, and while a few are saying "ok the cache is back, get over it." The larger problem remains. Sweeping it under the rug doesn't solve anything.

Your right...the larger problem does indeed still exist. That problem is a few people that want to complain about everything that isn't tailored around their wants. It dosen't matter why the cache was archived or unarchived. The simple matter of point is that it's over with except for the few that are bound and determined to voice thier petty thoughts.

 

The only pupose of leaving this thread open is to belittle and attack the Admins. That will solve nothing. The majority of us in here support the Admins, Mods and Approvers 100%!!

 

Now if anyone wants to start a flame war...knock yourself out. I've got mine lit and standing by. The Admins can't say what they really feel...but I and others can...until we get banned anyways. So flame away!

 

El Diablo

[+Cache Viking]

I reread the original post.  The issue wasn't so much that the cache was archived.  The real issue is why it was archived to begin with.  It should not of happened, it did, and while a few are saying "ok the cache is back, get over it."  The larger problem remains.  Sweeping it under the rug doesn't solve anything.

Your right...the larger problem does indeed still exist. That problem is a few people that want to complain about everything that isn't tailored around their wants. It dosen't matter why the cache was archived or unarchived. The simple matter of point is that it's over with except for the few that are bound and determined to voice thier petty thoughts.

 

The only pupose of leaving this thread open is to belittle and attack the Admins. That will solve nothing. The majority of us in here support the Admins, Mods and Approvers 100%!!

 

Now if anyone wants to start a flame war...knock yourself out. I've got mine lit and standing by. The Admins can't say what they really feel...but I and others can...until we get banned anyways. So flame away!

 

El Diablo

Well said El Diablo.

 

Now is there any way we can get this thing closed without accusations of a conspiracy?

[+Renegade Knight]

Your right...the larger problem does indeed still exist. That problem is a few people that want to complain about everything that isn't tailored around their wants. It dosen't matter why the cache was archived or unarchived. The simple matter of point is that it's over with except for the few that are bound and determined to voice thier petty thoughts.

Here in living color is the larger issue.

 

The cache was archived entirely out of spite. That is a slap in the face to both Team360 and the geocaching community. The key point is the geocaching community, who I am 100% for. Who is to say it won't come up when we cache owners place another cache?

 

"I'm sorry you had to go and drag the cache I rejected into the forums per the guidelines. I did a quick review of your caches and it looks you have a few that could use some attention, I'm going to archive them until they are dealt with to my satisfication." The precident has been set, cache owners should not have to deal with that.

 

The entire issue, the entire problem, the entire point of this thread was why the cache was archived. Whether it was spite, to prove a point, power trip, overeacting, or with love and care after a careful dialog with the Portland area approver almost doesn't matter. The perception is that it was too much for the geocaching community to swallow.

 

You can waive the GC.com banner all day long and proclaim your 100% loyalty and it won't make this a better site when the day is over. If however as a result of those "few who want to complain about everything" this kind of thing doesn't happen again it will be a better site and geocaching in general will be better off for it.

[MOCKBA]

If however as a result of those "few who want to complain about everything" this kind of thing doesn't happen again it will be a better site and geocaching in general will be better off for it.

Good point. I also thought of it when I decided to drop out of the current discussion. I thought, if Groundspeak come totally clean, and makes amends, and maybe puts in place policies to prevent future uses of caches as hostages of sorts, to gain leverage against their owners... it'd be pretty cool. But if they don't, and if the stain remains on TPTB reputation ... big deal, it works perfectly well for me. I kind of like the world in which the powers are to be cursed for a good cause, and not just because they are TPTB. Give it a thought.

[+shunra]

Now, if something similar were to happen again, there is this to look back at when deciding what to do then.

I am confident that the mods will. They sure won't enjoy being trashed as they have been here.

 

I agree with many of the points raised by RK over the months, but their value is diminished when they're dealt with in the context of a mobbing thread. I sure believe those points deserve attention in their own right, and in their own threads.

 

Ultimately, it's the admins who make the decisions, whether we, who choose to be their virtual guests on their site, like it or not. We all have our wished and gripes, and you, RK, are very good at rephrasing someone's vented frustrations in a constructive way. But in order to make effective use of that gift and make a difference, you have to dissociate yourself from mobbing. So, for that matter, should 360 himself.

 

Unless, you think you can wrestle geocaching.com away from Jeremy and the people he trusts (a ridiculous notion, which I hope you don't aspire), the question is how to be constructive, how to be heard, how to influence and contribute - not how to bash and trash.

 

If Jeremy would drop CO (which is what some people here seem to be after), the only result would be more overload and strained nerves on the part of the existing mods.

 

That's why I said: cut it out

[+El Diablo]

You can waive the GC.com banner all day long and proclaim your 100% loyalty and it won't make this a better site when the day is over. If however as a result of those "few who want to complain about everything" this kind of thing doesn't happen again it will be a better site and geocaching in general will be better off for it.

Sounds a lot like what Hitler would have said. If you think beating a dead horse is going to make this site better, then your full of it. You can interrupt "It" as wahtever you feel I meant to say. There is nothing constructive being said in this thread. It is being used totaly to bash others.

 

I will keep waving the GC banner and if you or others don't like the way this site is ran, then I suggest you go elsewheres. I get tired of hearing the hate and bull #$#$ that the trouble makers want to put out here in the forums.

 

GC could pay you people to be members and you would still find something to pi$$ and moan about. If you think I have a personal dislike for whiners...then you are finally on the same wave link as me.

 

El Diablo

[+shunra]

Who is to say it won't come up when we cache owners place another cache?

 

"I'm sorry you had to go and drag the cache I rejected into the forums per the guidelines. I did a quick review of your caches and it looks you have a few that could use some attention, I'm going to archive them until they are dealt with to my satisfication." The precident has been set, cache owners should not have to deal with that.

Being in the good company of El Diablo here, I'll be the advocate of the devil, and ask you: why not?

 

Caches that are not being properly maintained should ALWAYS be archived. Basta.

Approvers will find out about unmaintained caches when people complain, when people post SBAs, or when caches are getting their attention another way. If someone is calling attention to his wn caches, he runs a higher risk of them being dealt with. And the geocaching community will benefit.

 

Now - I am NOT saying that that is what happened with the Original Plaque cache. That cache appeared to be well-maintained when it was archived, it appears to have been unjustly archived, and subsequently unarchived. The mistake has been corrected. THAT is a valuable precendent , and we should appreciate it.

 

You can waive the GC.com banner all day long and proclaim your 100% loyalty and it won't make this a better site when the day is over.  If however as a result of those "few who want to complain about everything" this kind of thing doesn't happen again it will be a better site and geocaching in general will be better off for it.

 

I, for one, am not waiving any banner. I just realize that some things are the way they are. That's not a preference, that's no loyalty, it's realism.

On THAT basis, one can work toward improvement, optimization, and reform.

 

Unless what you want is a revolution, which might have unforeseen consequences.

[+El Diablo]

I have to take my wife out for her Birthday dinner...so no one say anything until I get back.

 

El Diablo

[+GrizzlyJohn]

I find it a little funny that some keep saying to close this thread but then keep adding to it.

 

If I was 360 I don't know that I would close this thread. The note when the cache was unarchived said that more discussion was going to happen on this cache to see what could happen to resolve this. Because I think many here have an interest in what that resolution might be, perhaps that can be stated here. I don't know that this thread shoud be closed and then another one opened when that resolution comes about.

 

And yes if an admin closes this thread it will no doubt start a flame war. So like all other threads if you don't like it, don't read it, don't add to it. And then those that hope this will be swept under the rug will get their wish.

 

And thanks to RK for his very thoughtful words. He said what I was thinking but does have the ability to phrase in such a way so as to not incite. A skill which I fully and clearly do not have.

 

Sorry El Diablo I was typing while you made your request.

Edited June 27, 2004 by GrizzlyJohn

[BassoonPilot]

If you think beating a dead horse is going to make this site better, then your full of it. You can interrupt "It" as wahtever you feel I meant to say. There is nothing constructive being said in this thread.

The issue, whether or not it actually occurred in the situation detailed in the original post to this thread, is the perceived abuse of authority/power by website volunteer(s.) I believe this issue deserved a response from the highest echelon of Groundspeak, Inc.

 

People want answers. People want to know what "the official position" is. But TPTB, meaning the non-volunteer employees of Groundspeak, have either been unavailable to comment or have chosen to remain silent. That is most unfortunate. And that is why people continue to beat this "dead horse."

Edited June 27, 2004 by BassoonPilot

[+norbu]

Has it occurred to anyone to be patient for a response, or comment from above? It is very likely that some people may not be immediately available, or that cooler heads are prevailing and waiting to make public statements until a group consensus can be reached? maybe? so please, hush. relax. smile. have compassion. Whatever the intent of CO Admin, I am sure he doesn't feel good about the whole situation. so, rather than increase the suffering, contribute to the decrease of it.

 

anyhow. Like others, I choose to not contribute futher...and I really hope some others can find it possible to wait, at least a bit.

[+Mechanics Hands]

A Mob, a war yes sadly thats what this seems to have been about. A questionable cache that the owner didnt get what he wanted and decided to use it as an excuse to have this explode. Were there mistakes on both sides? YES many and probably many more that none of us in the forums will ever know about. At the most we may see or hear one side or the other, but never the full picture. Why are caches adopted out or an assistant listed, when the original placer is to far away to properly maintain them? So if there is a problem with the cache, both cachers that see the problem, and the ADMINS know who to contact to see that it gets fixed. It all boils back to responsibility. I know I hate having my time wasted trying to email owners about the condition of their caches, only to have the email bounce back to me. Think of how the admins must feel. They are already doing so much work, and when an issue arises there is no clear person to contact to resolve it. It just adds that much more needless work.

 

Its easy to see both sides of the argument, and agree with some points of each side. HOWEVER the ATTACKS slams HATE anger and pushing the envelope clearly need to stop. Have the admins learned lessons from this? I think so. Have cachers learned........... hmmm hopefully some might have, but I suppose most of the attackers and ones that want things thier way only and push the envelope probably havent and will will continue on. They may see this as a victory to push GC around. EVERYONE lost with this. GC does not answer to us. Be thankful they care about this sport enough to listen to us on many things. This is a service they provide to us for free (if you dont want to pay for a premium membership which is totally optional) Most of us are GUESTS here. I know if I had a guest in my home or my event that and I saw the behavior that I have seen here I would have planted my 13's on their butt along time ago. Just because some of you dont get things your way, (admins and everyone included) gives you NO right whatsoever to come in here and behave the way that many have.

 

No matter what some people have done for GC and caching before in the past, present or the future, gives them any right to push the boundaries and envelope. It gives them no right to attack and hurt people. This whole mess SHOULD have been handled PRIVATELY. Yes 360 did a wonderful thing with the portland cache and I am thankful for that. Its things like that that make this a great community. Its things like these two threads that make it a horrible community.

 

If 360 didnt like that his cache was disaproved, it should have been handled with emails. If he felt CO was unfair he should have asked for feedback from another approver and have it discussed among them. To bring it here only feed the lynch mob and makes everyone loose and makes for a sad day within the caching community. There's an ongoing thread about why cachers dont use the forums. Its sadly because of imaturity like this and the attacks and hate and anger that detract from what most of us consider and wonderful hobby and sport.

 

If you have gripes or complaints, contact people privately or use some sence and restraint in the posts. What I have seen ongoing from many frequent posters is an ongoing HATE attitude. You call it caring, but if you truly cared you would approach it in a different more CONSTRUCTIVE way. NOT the DESTRUCTIVE way that happened here, and in many other posts. Everyone is different here, we all come from different backgrounds and even countries. IMHO if you have to always post things in a DESTRUCTIVE way then you should leave. Pure and simple. If you have ideas, or see things that need changed and can share and express them in a CONSTRUCTIVE way, then please do. Because its in that way that we and the sport and grow and improve. If you have to push the limits constantly with caches or think everything is aagainst you, then move on. A mentality liek that will onyl create issues like we have seen recently. I personally would prefer that everyone would stay and be able to provide constructive feedback so we can all learn from each other.

 

I know personally one thing that has been fully reinforced recently. Its how to, and how NOT to treat people, and air complaints and issues. I hope that EVERYONE can grow and learn from this. I'm also hoping that those who have issues can get over them and be able to continue to contribute to the hobby that so many of us, and our families love.

 

MH

[BassoonPilot]

Its easy to see both sides of the argument, and agree with some points of each side. HOWEVER the ATTACKS slams HATE anger and pushing the envelope clearly need to stop.

 

It would appear that the person who initiated this thread considered the act taken by a volunteer reviewer (the archiving of his memorial plaque cache) to be an "attack." It also seems that the OP believed that volunteer admin had "pushed the envelope" by abusing the authority entrusted to him. Those are very serious charges, and need to be publicly addressed by the professional staff of Groundspeak.

Have cachers learned........... hmmm hopefully some might have

 

Undoubtedly, this situation has opened the eyes of a number of cachers.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Why close this thread? Nate posted on the cache page that he was unarchiving it until Jeremy/Hydee/etc. could discuss the matter. I wouldn't expect that to happen on a Sunday, especially since the cache is currently active.

[+TEAM 360]

I will not be the one to close this thread.

A couple of things:

 

The cache I placed in New Mexico was not approved.

 

I DID PRIVATELY email CO Admin about it, asking him to take another look at it, and letting him know the cache is on a route I take often enough to perform maintenance on it. His response was still "no".

 

So, PER GEOCACHING GUIDELINES, I appealed in the forums for TPTB to take another look, and tried to get the general concensus about this cache. If you notice, I did not flame or attack CO, rather, I started off with the disclaimer: "i don't mean to ruffle anyones feathers or start a flame war...." and even stated that I had previous contact with CO and that he seems like a good approver and a nice guy.

 

By following guidelines and publicly posting this appeal, I must have really ticked off CO Admin...he archived the Plaque, immediately and without warning. Yep, I got the message: they can use that "archive" button against you at will.

 

To answer a few questions in this discussion: the caches I have archived were placed with a limited life span in mind, within the GC.com guidelines, or simply did not work out as they were intended to. So I archived them myself. Cache owners are allowed to do that, at their own discretion. Not that I NEED to answer this, but I thought I would clear up that point. No one HAS to keep a cache around forever.

 

Before I even placed this Plaque, I contacted Jeremy directly and asked for approval, which was given. Everyone knew I live in Arizona. No problems there. I will NOT be forced to put my cache up for adoption, that is completely out of the question. Ponyryder has helped me before with logbook replacement, I thank him for his help, and the yearly maintenance I do on the Plaque is sufficient. Yes, it IS. It's a bronze plaque, set in cement with 6' rebar angling out in different directions underground. It's on private property (with permission) and it's not going anywhere.

 

Anyway, the Plaque is back up and active. If it gets archived again, please feel free to log your finds at the "other" site, where it will remain active and always listed.

 

This was not a "war" or a "contest" to see who wins. This was about a cache that was wrongly archived. I am glad to see it active again.

[+IV_Warrior]

I see people saying "the cache has been unarchived, let it go." I don't agree with this. Reading the "unarchival" note, it seems that the unarchival may only be temporary, and I feel we all need to let TPTB know that we feel this cache needs to stay active. Considering there was nothing wrong with it at the time of archival, it clearly seems it was a personal issue, not anything with the cache. Also, the logbook was replaced in a much more timely manner than many other caches, should TPTB go through and archive all caches that went longer than a month without a logbook, even if they are currently in fine condition?

 

Here, I'll quote the unarchival note, to save you from going to look at it yourself:

 

June 26 by OpinioNate (0 found)

I am unarchiving this cache until Groundspeak can review the situation and come to an agreement on this matter. I would respectfully request Team 360 contact us at contact (at) geocaching (dot) com with any information he feels will help us in our decision. Thank you.

 

That doesn't read to me like the situation has been resolved and is over, just a "we'll put it back online for now". I also feel that CO_Admin should speak up and explain himself here, and Jeremy should weigh-in on the issue here as well. If it was truely done out of spite, something should be done about it, approvers/reviewers/moderators (whatever you wish to call them) need to be examples to the community, and held to a higher standard.

[+El Diablo]

If you think beating a dead horse is going to make this site better, then your full of it. You can interrupt "It" as wahtever you feel I meant to say. There is nothing constructive being said in this thread.

The issue, whether or not it actually occurred in the situation detailed in the original post to this thread, is the perceived abuse of authority/power by website volunteer(s.) I believe this issue deserved a response from the highest echelon of Groundspeak, Inc.

 

People want answers. People want to know what "the official position" is. But TPTB, meaning the non-volunteer employees of Groundspeak, have either been unavailable to comment or have chosen to remain silent. That is most unfortunate. And that is why people continue to beat this "dead horse."

They are not going to respond. It is the policy of the Admins not to respond to attacks. The bottom line is that the problem was fixed. To continue harping about it is clearly uncalled for. Why don't we argue about the Rodney King beating...same difference.

 

RK has a habit of sitting back and waiting for a conflict to pop up so he can steer the thread towards revolting against GC. He loves to point out that you can go to the other site. I would suggest that he goes there and stays there. I'm tired of all the bulls*** that you discontented like to stir up.

 

I'm going to wave the GC banner once again. They do an outstanding job with very little or no thanks. If RK and his bunch had their way...where would we be?

 

El Diablo

[+Team GPSaxophone]

They are not going to respond. It is the policy of the Admins not to respond to attacks. The bottom line is that the problem was fixed. To continue harping about it is clearly uncalled for. Why don't we argue about the Rodney King beating...same difference.

The problem has not been fixed. The cache was temporarily reinstated to give TPTB time to discuss the issues with the cache. That won't happen until tomorrow.

[+El Diablo]

They are not going to respond. It is the policy of the Admins not to respond to attacks. The bottom line is that the problem was fixed. To continue harping about it is clearly uncalled for. Why don't we argue about the Rodney King beating...same difference.

The problem has not been fixed. The cache was temporarily reinstated to give TPTB time to discuss the issues with the cache. That won't happen until tomorrow.

I group you in the same category as RK. The problem has been fixed.

 

El Diablo

[+Byron & Anne]

They are not going to respond. It is the policy of the Admins not to respond to attacks. The bottom line is that the problem was fixed. To continue harping about it is clearly uncalled for. Why don't we argue about the Rodney King beating...same difference.

The problem has not been fixed. The cache was temporarily reinstated to give TPTB time to discuss the issues with the cache. That won't happen until tomorrow.

I group you in the same category as RK. The problem has been fixed.

 

El Diablo

I'm sorry, but I must have missed something. El Diablo are you a memeber of the geocaching.com staff, volunteer or otherwise? If not how can you be so sure the "problem has been fixed"?

 

Anyway, I won't believe the problem has been fixed until Jeremy or one his paid staff responds.

Edited June 27, 2004 by Byron & Anne

[+Sparky-Watts]

If you think beating a dead horse is going to make this site better, then your full of it. You can interrupt "It" as wahtever you feel I meant to say. There is nothing constructive being said in this thread.

The issue, whether or not it actually occurred in the situation detailed in the original post to this thread, is the perceived abuse of authority/power by website volunteer(s.) I believe this issue deserved a response from the highest echelon of Groundspeak, Inc.

 

People want answers. People want to know what "the official position" is. But TPTB, meaning the non-volunteer employees of Groundspeak, have either been unavailable to comment or have chosen to remain silent. That is most unfortunate. And that is why people continue to beat this "dead horse."

A historical moment, indeed. For the second time ever, I am in full agreement with BP. There are issues here beyond the fact that the plaque has been unarchived. The issues are of trust, honesty, and responsibility for actions in regards to why this was archived. Clearly, from Team 360's point of view, this was a brazen act of hostility and revenge for questioning (quite properly) why his other cache was not approved. Other views have been proferred as to why this one was archived, but in context with the timing and other factors surrounding the other thread, it has clearly become as Team 360 has suggested, an act of hostility. CO Admin needs to be held accountable to the community as to his actions. That is why this thread is still open (correct me if I'm wrong, Team 360). CO Admin needs to, at the very least, make a public statement as to his actions and thought processes in this matter, and at the most, make a public apology first to Team 360, and second to the entire Geocaching.com community for his indiscretion, which has rapidly led to a general mistrust and loss of respect for the approvers in general. I am not saying this is indicative of the actions of any other approver, but one bad apple....you get my point. It also brings more perspective to the alleged biases brought up by another member in oh so many threads not too long ago. At the least, it sheds new light on what many of us refused to believe in those threads, and implants a great seed of doubt now as to the ability of CO Admin to perform his duties as an approver in a non-biased, fair way. I understand CO Admin has many health issues he is dealing with, and if those are affecting the way he handles his approver job, then perhaps the right thing to do would be to step aside until the problems are under control, or step down completely and let someone else with an unfettered conscience take over.

 

That is what we are waiting for, right, Team 360? An answer for the masses? I know that's what I am waiting for.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

They are not going to respond. It is the policy of the Admins not to respond to attacks. The bottom line is that the problem was fixed. To continue harping about it is clearly uncalled for. Why don't we argue about the Rodney King beating...same difference.

The problem has not been fixed. The cache was temporarily reinstated to give TPTB time to discuss the issues with the cache. That won't happen until tomorrow.

I group you in the same category as RK. The problem has been fixed.

 

El Diablo

That's fine, I agree with RK quite frequently.

 

However, How can you say the problem has been fixed when OpinionNate's comments quite clearly say TPTB will be looking into it? It was unarchived to allow TPTB to have a normal weekend doing whatever it is that they do. Since the cache is still there, people can find and log it, and no one is currently getting hurt over it, there is no reason to call up Jeremy on a Sunday and ruin his weekend. This issue isn't nearly that important.

[+El Diablo]

They are not going to respond. It is the policy of the Admins not to respond to attacks. The bottom line is that the problem was fixed. To continue harping about it is clearly uncalled for. Why don't we argue about the Rodney King beating...same difference.

The problem has not been fixed. The cache was temporarily reinstated to give TPTB time to discuss the issues with the cache. That won't happen until tomorrow.

I group you in the same category as RK. The problem has been fixed.

 

El Diablo

I'm sorry, but I must have missed something. El Diablo are you a memeber of the geocaching.com staff, volunteer or otherwise? If not how can you be so sure the "problem has been fixed"?

 

Anyway, I won't believe the problem has been fixed until Jeremy or one his paid staff responds.

No I'm not a part of the staff of GC. The cache is unarchived so the problem is solved.. If anyone expects for TBTP to come in here and grovel at everyones feet...it will be a long wait.

 

I'm being very vocal only for the reason that I'm tired of seeing the same old trouble makers stirring the pot again. They can't offer anything that is constructive...only criticism and it's not in the constructive forum. They want to run GC the way it fits them, not the way the majoritty wants.

 

Do not confuse this thread with a simple cache or a simple action of the Admins. This is a venue that a few are using to bash GC.

 

El Diablo

[+El Diablo]

 

That is what we are waiting for, right, Team 360? An answer for the masses? I know that's what I am waiting for.

No..their not waiting on answers...they are waiting to see if GC will stoop to their level. BTW Sparky...you are in the same group as Sax man and RK. Just thopught I would start putting the list together so everyone would know who all the trouble makers are. Seems that everyone wants to sidestep this group. I for one have no fear of you, or any respect for your opinons.

 

Every week we see some topic that pops up in the forums that wants to bash the Admins, Apporvers or Mods. I'm tired of it. What needs to happen is for the geocaching community to unite and send you guys packing.

 

El Diablo

[+Sparky-Watts]

 

That is what we are waiting for, right, Team 360?  An answer for the masses?  I know that's what I am waiting for.

No..their not waiting on answers...they are waiting to see if GC will stoop to their level. BTW Sparky...you are in the same group as Sax man and RK. Just thopught I would start putting the list together so everyone would know who all the trouble makers are. Seems that everyone wants to sidestep this group. I for one have no fear of you, or any respect for your opinons.

 

Every week we see some topic that pops up in the forums that wants to bash the Admins, Apporvers or Mods. I'm tired of it. What needs to happen is for the geocaching community to unite and send you guys packing.

 

El Diablo

You're too late. I've been on "the list" for a long, long time. Your list and your views don't concern me in the least. Why, in the last two weeks, you've gone from being the voice of someone I respect to nothing but white-noise on my computer screen. Don't know why you have taken to hateful criticism of people who question TPTB, and really, I don't care. Why don't you just drop off this thread and these forums if you can't take honesty and passion from people who care. This thread is not about bashing the approvers. I have never done so, and doubt that I will. I am simply asking "why". And no, it's obviously not over. Take off the blinders or take a hike.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

 

That is what we are waiting for, right, Team 360?  An answer for the masses?  I know that's what I am waiting for.

No..their not waiting on answers...they are waiting to see if GC will stoop to their level. BTW Sparky...you are in the same group as Sax man and RK. Just thopught I would start putting the list together so everyone would know who all the trouble makers are. Seems that everyone wants to sidestep this group. I for one have no fear of you, or any respect for your opinons.

 

Every week we see some topic that pops up in the forums that wants to bash the Admins, Apporvers or Mods. I'm tired of it. What needs to happen is for the geocaching community to unite and send you guys packing.

 

El Diablo

Wow, to think that at one time I actrually respected you enough to consider buying a hiking stick. Oh well

[+harleycache]

Rodney King

"Can't we all just get along?"

[+IV_Warrior]

El_Diablo, did you actually READ the unarchival note? How can you say the issue is resolved? The note clearly reads that it's unarchived "for now". Maybe it will soon be resolved, but currently, the issue is still an open one.

[+El Diablo]

 

That is what we are waiting for, right, Team 360?  An answer for the masses?  I know that's what I am waiting for.

No..their not waiting on answers...they are waiting to see if GC will stoop to their level. BTW Sparky...you are in the same group as Sax man and RK. Just thopught I would start putting the list together so everyone would know who all the trouble makers are. Seems that everyone wants to sidestep this group. I for one have no fear of you, or any respect for your opinons.

 

Every week we see some topic that pops up in the forums that wants to bash the Admins, Apporvers or Mods. I'm tired of it. What needs to happen is for the geocaching community to unite and send you guys packing.

 

El Diablo

Wow, to think that at one time I actrually respected you enough to consider buying a hiking stick. Oh well

Darn...a lost sell.

 

El Diablo

[+El Diablo]

El_Diablo, did you actually READ the unarchival note? How can you say the issue is resolved? The note clearly reads that it's unarchived "for now". Maybe it will soon be resolved, but currently, the issue is still an open one.

Why don't we wait and see what the decision is before we jump? You know as well as I do that cache will not be archived.

 

El Diablo

[+Sparky-Watts]

El_Diablo, did you actually READ the unarchival note?  How can you say the issue is resolved?  The note clearly reads that it's unarchived "for now".  Maybe it will soon be resolved, but currently, the issue is still an open one.

Why don't we wait and see what the decision is before we jump? You know as well as I do that cache will not be archived.

 

El Diablo

No, it's already been archived once in a moment of perceived vengence. Or did you miss that part of the discussion too?

[+mtn-man]

Everybody...

 

Back it down a notch please.

 

Some things to keep in mind when posting:

 

Respect: Respect the guidelines for forum usage, and site usage. Respect Groundspeak, its employees, volunteers, yourself, fellow community members, and guests on these boards. Whether a community member has one post or 5,000 posts, they deserve the same respect.

[+Sparky-Watts]

Everybody...

 

Back it down a notch please.

 

Some things to keep in mind when posting:

 

Respect: Respect the guidelines for forum usage, and site usage. Respect Groundspeak, its employees, volunteers, yourself, fellow community members, and guests on these boards. Whether a community member has one post or 5,000 posts, they deserve the same respect.

Sorry mtn-man...you always slip these in while I'm posting!

 

More to the point. I'm not asking anyone to hang an approver, and I don't think that's the intent of this thread. What I'm asking, and what I perceive to be the intent is an explanation. A simple, "Oops, I hit the wrong button." or "Yeah, I did it out of hate." Either way, I think there needs to be an answer. Nobody is buying the "doesn't meet guidelines" excuse, because that has been explained. (Remember the part about specific permission from Jeremy?)

[+team safari]

And in the meantime, why don't y'all learn how to spell "precedence"...and "precedent"?

[+Sparky-Watts]

And in the meantime, why don't y'all learn how to spell "precedence"...and "precedent"?

Off topic posts such as this don't help anything. Please try to stick to the topic, or go elsewhere if you have nothing to add.

[+Mudfrog]

Congratulations RK, on your finding of the AlaskaQuest Cache today!

[+Spzzmoose]

"I also feel that CO_Admin should speak up and explain himself here, and Jeremy should weigh-in on the issue here as well. "

 

 

HEAR HEAR!!! What is your opinion Jeremy, Hydee and...most importantly, CO Admin? Curious minds want to know!

[+El Diablo]

El_Diablo, did you actually READ the unarchival note?  How can you say the issue is resolved?  The note clearly reads that it's unarchived "for now".  Maybe it will soon be resolved, but currently, the issue is still an open one.

Why don't we wait and see what the decision is before we jump? You know as well as I do that cache will not be archived.

 

El Diablo

No, it's already been archived once in a moment of perceived vengence. Or did you miss that part of the discussion too?

Too? I haven't missed any part of this discussion. I just see the underlying meaning to it.

 

El Diablo

[+Sparky-Watts]

Too? I haven't missed any part of this discussion.

El Diablo

You know as well as I do that cache will not be archived.

 

Well, judging from this comment, it appears that you obviously have missed a major part of the discussion.