Now You're Getting Nasty

[+Mopar]

OK, now the the fun is over, I gotta point out the irony of this post 360 made on the cache page:

In anticipation of just such an event, I also listed this Plaque on Navicache.

 

Nothing at all bad with that, just I have to laugh at Navicache listing this:

 

when they yell at people for mentioning events and caches in the forums there that are posted here.

[+bunkerdave]

You know, it occurs to me that I did hear about some kind of glut on virtual caches in the last year or so. I guess there are some things I missed. That said, it looks like this has been taken care of. I withdraw previous inflammatory post. Cache on.

[CoyoteRed]

Looks like it's back online.

 

What I find funny is the tone taken by many about "approval" and "archiving."

 

It's almost as if when you place a cache it doesn't exist until it is "approved." Then if something happens and it gets "archived," *blip* it's gone.

 

I don't understand the reasoning behind CO Admin archiving this cache. The cache is still there. It just got visited today and the log states everything is okay. Been that way for the past week or two. Just because it doesn't meet the "approval" of one admin, the cache is not a viable cache? I just don't understand.

 

What was he going to do if Team360 refused to find someone to take care of it? Have someone go and rip it out of the ground? Let it become geolitter? What?

 

I think there should be more of a feeling of community and helping out each other's caches. A good portion of us do. We replace pens, logs, swag, you name it--sometimes even the container. If "finder cache maintenance" was as much of a mantra as "Trade Up" and "CITO" we wouldn't even have a vacation cache rule to begin with. Nor, would we even be having this conversation.

[+Robespierre]

1) You can have local help with maintaining a cache and you are allowed to have your name on it as the owner.

2) This cache got special permission with full knowledge of the situation. It got that permission for very good reasons.

3) The geocaching world is not a better place for the point made here today. Neither GC.com nor geocaching benifited from this.

4) Approvers should not generally approve or archived outside their area of reasoanble knowledge. Portland is not CO_Admins area.

Well, eloquent, thorough, simple, concise. We have reached our conclusion, then. I believe, as I have read through this thread, that only one response was thoroughly against 360. I'd like to think that "some day" I could visit that spot. Work it out, and, please, try to be more magnanimous than your "opponent." "Opponent," what a sad, sad word.

[+BadAndy]

Wow...I mean.....uuuuhhhh.......it's pretty much......mmmm.....dang.

 

What RK said.

[dampeoples]

Ah c'mon, spill all the beans, we wanna know what the real deal is

[+Nurse Dave]

Hey!  It was unarchived while I was writing my post.  Well I think this should be looked into anyway and I think my post is well written anyway. 

Very well written. You want a job with Today's Cacher?

 

El Diablo

Wait, would that make me part of the Evil Horde??

[+team safari]

Sometimes CO Admin over-reacts, and he is not known for his tact. He tries to do his volunteer job as best as he can, and I appreciate that. It's a hard job, and he has been ill. Cut him some slack personally.

 

But I think he overstepped his bounds here, and TPTB needs to respond to this controversy. It's bad for Geocaching, and bad for the Geocaching image with new and old cachers.

[+Lazyboy & Mitey Mite]

Sometimes CO Admin over-reacts, and he is not known for his tact. He tries to do his volunteer job as best as he can, and I appreciate that. It's a hard job, and he has been ill. Cut him some slack personally.

 

But I think he overstepped his bounds here, and TPTB needs to respond to this controversy. It's bad for Geocaching, and bad for the Geocaching image with new and old cachers.

Sometimes even an admin needs a time out.

 

This was pure vindictiveness but I'm glad to see it sorted out.

[+Renegade Knight]

I don't think folks want to bash admins, or gc.com here, I know I certainly don't.

 

It just seems so clear to me that this cache archival was a spillover from the 'other' thread and what was going on their.

 

Even if it isn't, it has the appearance of being so, and doesn't help matters any.

It indeed may be a spill over. As I pointed out in my earlier post...it is a very special cache. However it is not exempt from the same rules that are applied to all caches.

 

In the earlier thread it was pointed out that the cache went for over a month needing care before it was given.

 

What needs to happen is for the locals where the cache is located to step up and offer to take responsibility for it. There is more going on here than this cache. 360 was unhappy that his latest cache wasn't approved, and according to the guidelines it was the correct decision. During that discussion the fact came out that 360's plaque cache was also being neglected.

 

In other words... he brought this grief upon his self. I for one want to see the cache unarchived. I also want it to adhere to the same rules as all caches. This would be a perfect cache for the local geocaching group to adopt and put all of this to rest.

 

El Diablo

I agree. He brought it upon himself by listing a cache, having it disapproved for listing on GC.com. Then by following the guidelines and bringing it up in the forums. By doing it by the book he heaped vengance upon himself. Man I hate when that happens. Of course if Team 360 lived in another area with a different approver this probably would of not happend at all. But lets Blame Team 360 for it.

 

There is no reason for the local community to adopt the cache. To do so against the wishes of Team 360 is a place that I don't want geocaching to go. The decision made by GC.com at the time was one I agree with. I'll support them in keeping that cache active even if the log is stolen so fast that nobody ever sees a log in that cache again.

[+Beta Test]

OK people, Team 360's cache has been unarchived. Lets not beat a dead horse, because otherwise is bound to get worse.

[+Nurse Dave]

I'm not so sure this time it's a fix the problem and forget it thing.

Edited June 27, 2004 by Nurse Dave

[+El Diablo]

Hey!  It was unarchived while I was writing my post.  Well I think this should be looked into anyway and I think my post is well written anyway. 

Very well written. You want a job with Today's Cacher?

 

El Diablo

Wait, would that make me part of the Evil Horde??

There are drawbacks to everything.

 

El Diablo

[+Kealia]

All's well that ends well, I suppose.

 

(Took a break to be with my family for a while at the beach and am now catching up. Ya know, REAL life - the things that are important).

 

El Diablo continues to be a voice of reason.

 

Let's all remember a few things folks: we don't see the whole picture in these forums - let's not be so quick to be a bunch of rubber-neckers at the next accident. Worse yet, let's avoid taking sides and writing things like "from what I can see" & "I think" & "I'm guessing that....".

 

And before I get accused of taking sides, I merely:

1) Responded to 360's post with my opinion (which was solicited by the first post); and

2) Defended the Admin when the mob mentality kicked in.

 

(Mopar, thanks for the popcorn image - LMAO)

[+RJFerret]

But I think he overstepped his bounds here, and TPTB needs to respond to this controversy. It's bad for Geocaching, and bad for the Geocaching image with new and old cachers.

 

Hear, hear!

 

Randy

[+norbu]

Sooooo glad to see this was unarchived, it did seem a bit hasty.

[+Harrald]

I think a great way to handle this would be to ask team360 to leave the GC.com website and never return. He has shown by his actions and posts that he can not be a member of this community.

 

Considering his past actions, any approver "over reacting" is acceptable. With his constant bashing of the approvers, admin, users and mods he has shown no ability to be part of this group.

 

Even if CO_Admins reasons are found to be a case of poor judgement, 360 has brought all of his strife on himself. I have had enough of his act and feel the time of PC statements have come to an end.

[+Beta Test]

I think a great way to handle this would be to ask team360 to leave the GC.com website and never return. He has shown by his actions and posts that he can not be a member of this community.

 

Considering his past actions, any approver "over reacting" is acceptable. With his constant bashing of the approvers, admin, users and mods he has shown no ability to be part of this group.

 

Even if CO_Admins reasons are found to be a case of poor judgement, 360 has brought all of his strife on himself. I have had enough of his act and feel the time of PC statements have come to an end.

Yes I can see why Admin didn't aprove the cache. However TeamGpssaxophone voulenteered himself for maintainance untill a permanent cacher could be found. No more input was put in from Admin due to the fact that Admin had to rethink his decision. It was the rest of the community who carried the subject on while the rest said to drop it. Now that 360 has what he wants in regards to this thread, and matters are still being looked into on the first subject, it is people like you who are now breeding the anger. I'm not alone when I said let sleeping dogs lie. I think it would be best if everyone let the approvers and 360 work this out. All of the people who are making decisions are working out the facts so that this can be resolved once and for all. Let it alone already.

Edited June 27, 2004 by Beta Test

[+Sparky-Watts]

I think a great way to handle this would be to ask team360 to leave the GC.com website and never return. He has shown by his actions and posts that he can not be a member of this community.

 

Considering his past actions, any approver "over reacting" is acceptable. With his constant bashing of the approvers, admin, users and mods he has shown no ability to be part of this group.

 

Even if CO_Admins reasons are found to be a case of poor judgement, 360 has brought all of his strife on himself. I have had enough of his act and feel the time of PC statements have come to an end.

Well, there ya have it, 360. THE voice of Geocaching has spoken. Fold up the tables, folks, put away the popcorn, the show is over. Must be, Harrald said so.

[+Shop99er]

Personally, I think COAdmin was only partially wrong on the issue that started all this in the other thread.

 

He was absolutely, dead-on, out-of-his-mind wrong to archive the Plaque.

 

Yes, I know it's been un-archived.

 

Using the Plaque as a way to get at Team360 did nothing to enhance CO's standing with anyone in the GC community. It showed that he is willing to take some form of revenge, no matter whom else gets caught in the cross-fire.

 

If 360 asks for a local to maintian the Plaque, I have no doubt that hundreds, or thousands of members would jump at it. I probably would too, and I live north of Tacoma.

 

Oh, wait....... that's nearly 4 hours away, by Interstate........probably too far.......

[+Sparky-Watts]

I think a great way to handle this would be to ask team360 to leave the GC.com website and never return. He has shown by his actions and posts that he can not be a member of this community.

 

Considering his past actions, any approver "over reacting" is acceptable. With his constant bashing of the approvers, admin, users and mods he has shown no ability to be part of this group.

 

Even if CO_Admins reasons are found to be a case of poor judgement, 360 has brought all of his strife on himself. I have had enough of his act and feel the time of PC statements have come to an end.

Yes I can see why Admin didn't aprove the cache. However Sparky voulenteered himself for maintainance untill a permanent cacher could be found. No more input was put in from Admin due to the fact that Admin had to rethink his decision. It was the rest of the community who carried the subject on while the rest said to drop it. Now that 360 has what he wants in regards to this thread, and matters are still being looked into on the first subject, it is people like you who are now breeding the anger. I'm not alone when I said let sleeping dogs lie. I think it would be best if everyone let the approvers and 360 work this out. All of the people who are making decisions are working out the facts so that this can be resolved once and for all. Let it alone already.

Hey, wait a minute!! The only thing I ever volunteered for was to be the Forum Whipping Boy! Actually, I believe it was my sock-puppet, Team GPSaxophone, that volunteered to do a job he couldn't do because he is moving.

Edited June 27, 2004 by Sparky-Watts

[+Beta Test]

Hey, wait a minute!! The only thing I ever volunteered for was to be the Forum Whipping Boy!  Actually, I believe it was my sock-puppet, Team GPSaxophone, that volunteered to do a job he couldn't do because he is moving.

 

Sorry. I always get the two of you confused.

Edited June 27, 2004 by Beta Test

[+Sparky-Watts]

Hey, wait a minute!! The only thing I ever volunteered for was to be the Forum Whipping Boy!  Actually, I believe it was my sock-puppet, Team GPSaxophone, that volunteered to do a job he couldn't do because he is moving.

 

Sorry. I always get the two of you confused. [/color]

I don't know how! I'm the good-looking one!

[+Beta Test]

[+Kealia]

I don't know how! I'm the good-looking one!

If YOU'RE the good-looking one, who am I???

[dampeoples]

I don't know how!  I'm the good-looking one!

If YOU'RE the good-looking one, who am I???

The precious

[+Renegade Knight]

I think a great way to handle this would be to ask team360 to leave the GC.com website and never return. He has shown by his actions and posts that he can not be a member of this community.

 

Considering his past actions, any approver "over reacting" is acceptable. With his constant bashing of the approvers, admin, users and mods he has shown no ability to be part of this group.

 

Even if CO_Admins reasons are found to be a case of poor judgement, 360 has brought all of his strife on himself. I have had enough of his act and feel the time of PC statements have come to an end.

Irony is a beautiful thing.

 

You have a good repuation in your area as a cacher. Team 360 went above and beyond to place the plaque as a gift to the geocaching community. You both have made a positive contribution to this RASH and you both a certain flair in the forums both good and bad.

 

Yet you are defending CO_Admin for being exactly what you are accusing Team 360 of being. Per your logic an SOB member justifes an approver overreacting but Vise Versa and you think the member should be banned.

 

If you are not an approver allready I have no doubt you soon will be. You have the gift.

[+blazerfan]

This was a poorly handled situation. But is it posable to agree and disagree with both sides at the same time? That answer is obviously "Yes" because I do.

 

I won't say anything beyond that on this issue... but I read a lot of things on these forums and I have to say that it may have finally made me sick enough to stop reading today (yes, I think this is my geocide... I should fill out the form ).

 

A few people in these forums need to calm down and realize this is a game. I know that tomorrow I am going for a picnic and then I am going caching.

 

When the time comes I am going to try my best to make my 500th cache the Original Stash Tribute Plaque... because I enjoy the numbers, and I enjoy geocaching.

 

Nevermind my geocide I think I'll just go back to lurking after I take a few weeks off.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Hey, wait a minute!! The only thing I ever volunteered for was to be the Forum Whipping Boy!  Actually, I believe it was my sock-puppet, Team GPSaxophone, that volunteered to do a job he couldn't do because he is moving.

 

Sorry. I always get the two of you confused. [/color]

I don't know how! I'm the good-looking one!

Just so you don't lead anyone astray, here's a comparison:

 

Here's me..................................and here's my sock puppet

[+Kealia]

So....do I need to grow a mustache to play with you guys?

 

We thinkz they're precious!

[+Stunod]

Where's the pic of the good-looking one Sparky was talking about?

[uperdooper]

Hey, wait a minute!! The only thing I ever volunteered for was to be the Forum Whipping Boy!  Actually, I believe it was my sock-puppet, Team GPSaxophone, that volunteered to do a job he couldn't do because he is moving.

 

Sorry. I always get the two of you confused. [/color]

I don't know how! I'm the good-looking one!

Just so you don't lead anyone astray, here's a comparison:

 

Here's me..................................and here's my sock puppet

you have a cat as your sock puppet? sorry, i couldn't help it.

[+Doggiewoggie]

Muscle flexing. Sabre rattling. Unilateral retaliation. Finger pointing. Evidence of abuse. Accusations! Justifications! Pontifications! Resignations! Everyone spreading themselves too thin!

 

Is it the US war in Iraq? No! It's the Forums!

[+norbu]

Muscle flexing. Sabre rattling. Unilateral retaliation. Finger pointing. Evidence of abuse. Accusations! Justifications! Pontifications! Resignations! Everyone spreading themselves too thin!

 

Is it the US war in Iraq? No! It's the Forums!

Oh Oh Oh, you made my eyes tear, you did you did.....

can this thread be closed yet oh, wait, that would probably just start 5 more about censorship....but that could be fun too. wheeeeeeee, and no, I am not trying to be mean. I just think it is funny, as do many others (and not in any sort of malicious way!!!) *gryn*

[+Lazyboy & Mitey Mite]

I'm not so sure this time it's a fix the problem and forget it thing.

Totally agree.

[+Teach2Learn]

As Nurse Dave and Lazyboy said, "I'm not sure this time it's a fix the problem and forget it thing."

 

I agree an explanation would help. Although the problem occurred between 360 and CO Admin, the GC community could be reassured that even when emotional decisions are made (by 360, CO Admin, a mod, etc.), common sense can still prevail. I'm not sure of that in this case even after having fully read earlier and related threads. The reasons for non-approval of the cache may have been clear, but the archiving and unarchiving of the other is bizarre and perhaps even worrisome without any reasons provided. Of course, the PTB don't have to explain and it's their prerogative, but I think it would be in their best interest as well.

 

I'm not trying to wake a sleeping dog like Mechanics Hands mentioned or stir up anything. Just hoping for a proactive response/explanation. Otherwise, I can see similar situations repeating themselves.

[+Byron & Anne]

 

As Nurse Dave and Lazyboy said, "I'm not sure this time it's a fix the problem and forget it thing."

 

Having watched geocachers get banned for their behavior, I think it's time for something at least close to that for one approver. If positive behavior is expected from us, it should be expected from all staff, volunteer or otherwise. I just couldn't believe that anybody would think that there wouldn't be a big out cry for archiving the plaque. What was he thinking, or was he?

 

Byron

Edited June 27, 2004 by Byron & Anne

[+norbu]

oh to be a fly on the virtual wall tonight.

[+Kfam]

Are you guys still talking about the plaque?

I just got home from the Portland Cache Machine and I find that it was archived while I stood there and signed the logbook. Geesh! Just my luck.

Met some cachers who have travelled thousands of miles to log their 3200th milestone find there. Trust me, It is alive and well!

If you ask me, I think the problem is more the people here that demand and devise unbending stupid rules. What do you expect Admin to do?

[+Pobre Rico]

Hey, Jeremy!

 

Any explanation?

 

I know you must be reading...

[+LeatherKnight]

Harrald wrote:

I think a great way to handle this would be to ask team360 to leave the GC.com website and never return. He has shown by his actions and posts that he can not be a member of this community.

 

Considering his past actions, any approver "over reacting" is acceptable. With his constant bashing of the approvers, admin, users and mods he has shown no ability to be part of this group.

 

Even if CO_Admins reasons are found to be a case of poor judgement, 360 has brought all of his strife on himself. I have had enough of his act and feel the time of PC statements have come to an end.

 

That's too lenient. Why don't we boil him in oil? Draw and quarter the dog! Put him on the rack!! There's no place on geocaching.com for standing up for oneself, and Team 360 needs to learn that.

[+PandyBat]

... Some of the ones you have archived now don't even give a reason why they were archived.

No, that is nobody's business. A cache owner is free to archive any of his/her caches at any time without any explanation to anyone.

I was just meaning that most caches I see go archived usually have something wrong with them. I understand its 360s right to archive a cache whenever he wants. I won't deny him that.

 

I gotta know though, how did 360 come to adopt this cache in the first place? Did he live near it at the time? I don't know all the history behind this cache. Just mainly that Dave Ulmer owned it at one time. How did 360 obtain it?

[+Teach2Learn]

They had a plaque placement ceremony last year at the site. Dave was first to sign the log and thanked Team 360 and Jeremy for their efforts. In the cache description, Team 360 thanks numerous cachers for helping.

 

When you go to the cache page, just click on the "view all logs" link at the bottom after reading the description. The earliest logs provide a more thorough answer to your question.

 

ORIGINAL STASH TRIBUTE PLAQUE

 

edited for link title

Edited June 27, 2004 by Teach2Learn

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

... Some of the ones you have archived now don't even give a reason why they were archived.

No, that is nobody's business. A cache owner is free to archive any of his/her caches at any time without any explanation to anyone.

I was just meaning that most caches I see go archived usually have something wrong with them. I understand its 360s right to archive a cache whenever he wants. I won't deny him that.

 

I gotta know though, how did 360 come to adopt this cache in the first place? Did he live near it at the time? I don't know all the history behind this cache. Just mainly that Dave Ulmer owned it at one time. How did 360 obtain it?

Here ya go Pandy, This was taken from the cache page that was Team 360's brain child. He also has the original can of beans that he has had sealed in plastic to preserve what is left of it & takes it to event caches to share the story. The whole idea of the plaque was his.

 

This is where it all began. On May 3, 2000, a five-gallon bucket was placed at this very spot by Dave Ulmer, containing Delorme Topo USA and 2 CD Roms, a cassette recorder, a "George of the Jungle" VHS tape, a Ross Perot book, 4 $1 bills, a slingshot handle, and a can of beans. The coordinates were then listed on the Internet, and modern-day Geocaching was born. Although the original bucket is no longer around, we recognize the importance of that event which happened here and dedicate this ORIGINAL STASH TRIBUTE PLAQUE on behalf of geocachers everywhere. Keeping with tradition, there IS a logbook to sign at this site. It is RIGHT there and very easy to get at. Please do not try to pry up or move the Plaque at all to find it. Thanks go out to Lance Christensen and the Port Blakely Tree Farms, whose land this is located on. Without their cooperation, this would not have been possible. Please continue to show respect to their property while visiting. Many thanks also go out to all the geocachers who made this possible: Junglehair, DapperDanMan, Moun10Bike, -=(GEO)=-, Bitbrain, Mzee & Associates, Team DaSH, Ajetpilot, RJFerret, Badmojoe, Cacheola Crew, GrizzlyJohn, Geospotter, Yumitori, Dalenis, Rothstafari, Spzzmoose, Team GPSaxophone, CacheUsOut, Scoobie10, RomadPilot, Makaio, Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking, and Crashmore. Thanks also go out to Jeremy Irish and the entire crew at Groundspeak for their support of this effort and their dedication to this sport. Let's not forget to say thanks to Dave Ulmer for the great idea.

 

Hope this helps clear things up a bit.

 

Shirley~

[+shunra]

Muscle flexing.  Sabre rattling.  Unilateral retaliation.  Finger pointing.  Evidence of abuse.  Accusations!  Justifications!  Pontifications!  Resignations!  Everyone spreading themselves too thin! 

 

Is it the US war in Iraq?  No!  It's the Forums! 

Pffft!

 

I particularly like "unilateral retaliation" : rolleyes:

Edited June 27, 2004 by Shunra

[+pnew]

man I hate it when people write in this color!

[+canadazuuk]

TEAM 360 'could' close this topic anytime.

[+Robespierre]

Using the Plaque as a way to get at Team360 did nothing to enhance CO's standing with anyone in the GC community. It showed that he is willing to take some form of revenge, no matter whom else gets caught in the cross-fire.

Have you ever been in charge of anything? Give Co a break. Everyone assumes malice here...well not EVERYONE. I'm glad to see it resolved. The kids get nervous when Mom and Dad......Dad and Dad.....don't like the sound of THAT either...fight.

 

It's pretty cool. Took Teach2Learn's advice and "viewed all caches" on the placque. Hey, 360, it's pretty cool. Did good. You didn't make T.B.'s out of those old beans?

[+Insp Gadget]

Have you ever been in charge of anything? Give Co a break.

I tend to disagree. Being in law enforcement myself, the onus on fixing the problem lies on my shoulders. I very often have to lean over backwards to TRY and come up with a solution so that both parties can agree on something to fix the problem. Personally, from reading this post and th other one, I think TPTB shouold step in here. Jeremy has not mentioned anything (unless I missed it) and I really think he should give his 2 cents here.

[dampeoples]

Yeah, I'd really like to have Groundspeak weigh in on this. This is our sport, they're providing a listing service, and answer to us, not the other way around.

It could all be a large misunderstanding, and a one-sided view given to us by a player, that's ok. An approver getting out of hand, that's ok too, fix it and we can all get back to the norm.