Could Ammo Containers Launch Terror Alert?

March 23, 2003

I'm wondering if the current terror concern could cause a cache to be "misinterpretted" as a potential explosive device by unknowing authorities?

Has anyone heard of this happening?

I can see why a clear container might be best, at least in less remote locations (citys).

6.5k · March 23, 2003

Don't leave your purse/backpack at the airport or bus station someone might think its a bomb!

March 23, 2003

Recently, here in northern Utah, we had a bomb scare as a result of a small red plastic tackle box cache. On a couple cache pages, I've also seen postings of where police officers were curious as to what was going on when people were searching for caches. (I think it was night searches). No matter what the activity, it's probably wise to think hard about how others might view your actions given the current situation.

March 23, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Searching_ut:
Recently, here in northern Utah, we had a bomb scare as a result of a small red plastic tackle box cache. On a couple cache pages, I've also seen postings of where police officers were curious as to what was going on when people were searching for caches. (I think it was night searches). No matter what the activity, it's probably wise to think hard about how others might view your actions given the current situation.

For this very reason I always bring a printout of the cache I'm looking for. You never know if you'll run into a really thick-headed officer who just won't buy you explaination with just your GPSr as proof. But with a printout, I think it adds much more credibility as they could read for themselves the LAT/LON and cache description (not to mention a few of the most recent log entries).

Jason Roysdon

jason.roysdon.net

March 23, 2003

...the fear of ammo boxes.

I've seen many painted, and you'd never guess their original use had anything to do with the military.

Why do some people get upset when they see them? It's just a box. A metal cash box or tool box could be just as dangerous, as could clear tupperware with a gift-wrapped bomb inside.

George

March 23, 2003

If you think you have a problem in the USA, you should try caching in Israel. NOT a good place to leave any type of box or bag anywhere. I watched them blow up a bag left at the bus stop by accident. When I got back to Canada, I was in a bank and someone had left a briefcase on the counter which set my alarm bells off I think you guys will have to be more careful caching for awhile and take a few more precautions to prevent mistakes.

P.S.

Just remember the 7 P's

Proper Planing and Preperation, Prevents P@## Poor Preformance

Work Smarter, Not Harder!

March 23, 2003

I've recently read a couple logs for caches near dams that reflect encounters with stepped-up security, which is one of the reasons that we've held off on doing some benchmarking and caching in some areas. Half of my caching team looks creepy and suspicious naturally, so it'd just be a matter of mintutes til the frisking began - might not be too bad, but then there's always the possibility of a body-cavity search. You don't want to risk that....

38.2k · March 24, 2003

A properly hidden ammo box should't raise an alert because nobody is going to find it. Personally, I wouldn't place an ammo box in a suburban, or urban park, or someplace else where it's likely to be accidently discovered.

And to answer your question, yes there have been several instances where an ammo box caused alarm and

the bomb squad was sent out to investigate. But it also happened with a Tupperware container and a tackle box, so obviously the container doesn't matter. It's where its placed that is the issue.

"An appeaser is one who keeps feeding a crocodile-hoping it will eat him last" -Winston Churchill

March 24, 2003

We still use them because they can be placed practically out in the open and not be detected. We always take the geocaching sticker that we purchased through the site and put it on the side of the box. If people get close they can see that the part of the box that tells what kind of ammo was in it has been covered up. We put the name of the cache on the sticker so that if there is any trouble, we can be contacted. So far, no problems. Our caches are mostly in wooded areas, however, away from high security areas.

24.7k · March 24, 2003

We just had a decon containter investigated as a dope trading location. The K-9 unit left their card in the cache.

It seems like a lot of K-9 unitls in this state are geocachers. At least they didn't blow up the cache.

Plus it also means that people are paying attention to what goes on around them. Which they should be doing!

Lastly, it means that some geocachers are as discrete as a mud tracks on a white carpet.

Wherever you go there you are.

1.5k · March 24, 2003

There have been a few instances of cache containers being placed in not-so smart locations that have attracted the attention of local law enforcement, and subsequently, their bomb squads as well.

1 was an ammo can, the other was something resembling a tackle box placed under a bridge near a government facility (I believe). The latter falls under the mud/white carpet mentioned earlier, as he was less than discrete in placement.

Clear tupperware containers are probably the best for urban caches that aren't micros. The reason is simple. Should someone find themselves spooked by the presence of this container mingling in the bushes, PD or whoever can clearly see the contents of the container before using a water cannon or shotgun to openly display the harmless contents.

Brian

Team A.I.

March 24, 2003

I usally use clear tupperware containers but as most of you know these do degrade with exposure to the elements and are not as long lasting as the old trusty "ammo can".

So with this in mind I am going to take a few ammo cans and cut a fair sized hole in one side and use some plexiglass and sealant and pop rivit the plexiglass to the ammo can. I am hoping it does not weaken the can and still remains waterproof while still allowing the contents to be seen.

9.4k · March 24, 2003

I've determined that the container is irrelevant when it comes to becoming suspicious and destroyed by bomb squads. Tupperware or ammo containers are both looked at with suspicion, clear or opaque.

My recommendation would be to have your contact information printed on the outside of the container - preferably your cell phone number where you can be reached at any time. Otherwise use common sense and keep your caches away from public places, bridges, or any area that would be considered a target by terrorists. Even then you shouldn't be surprised to have your container called in by a concerned citizen.

I suppose the ironic thing is that every cache I have found that was inside a black garbage bag has never been plundered or destroyed. People will squawk when they see a completely obvious container but will not look twice at a cache (or anything for that matter) in a trash bag.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

2.6k · March 24, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:
but will not look twice at a cache (or anything for that matter) in a trash bag.

True, true....

Except for an inmate looking for a pocket knife.

Do not extend your expectations unto others, you will not be disappointed by the stupid things they do.

Mokita!

March 25, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Knight:
...Lastly, it means that some geocachers are as discrete as a mud tracks on a white carpet.

Wherever you go there you are.

I'm very new to geocaching and I am the mud tracks. And I feel like it when looking for caches. I am still getting the hang of using a GPSr (not the controls/features, but compensating for the inaccuracy etc.) and compass, to find the cache. That noobie clumsiness, makes me stand out a lot.

I decided to try cache hunting when I expect less people around the cache area, until I get better(especially after my first find went missing shortly after I found it). I went out Sunday morning, 6am for my last hunt. not a soul around.

I am more concerned with compromising the cache, than confrontation with authorities, but I suppose the authorities don't enjoy having to put their donut down (jk) to come talk to a geocacher.

I guess it might be a good idea to do some virtual caches since they cant be plundered, but I haven't seen any in my area.

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

38.2k · March 25, 2003

quote:
I suppose the ironic thing is that every cache I have found that was inside a black garbage bag has never been plundered or destroyed. People will squawk when they see a completely obvious container but will not look twice at a cache (or anything for that matter) in a trash bag.

Oh no, don't get that around. Some people will get ideas and that practice might become more widespread. Thankfully I've not seen it in NJ, but when I was cache hunting near Sacramento, it was common. Nothing like reaching into a wet and slimy trash bag to extract the cache...yuk!

"An appeaser is one who keeps feeding a crocodile-hoping it will eat him last" -Winston Churchill

1.6k · March 25, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:
Oh no, don't get that around. Some people will get ideas and that practice might become more widespread. Thankfully I've not seen it in NJ, but when I was cache hunting near Sacramento, it was common. Nothing like reaching into a wet and slimy trash bag to extract the cache...yuk!

Maybe the camouflage gurus will invent a fake black garbage bag...

CR

March 25, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Searching_ut:
Recently, here in northern Utah, we had a bomb scare as a result of a small red plastic tackle box cache. On a couple cache pages, I've also seen postings of where police officers were curious as to what was going on when people were searching for caches. (I think it was night searches). No matter what the activity, it's probably wise to think hard about how others might view your actions given the current situation.

The same things has been known to happen when ham radio operators conduct Hidden Transmitter Hunts (Bunny Hunts). A bunch of us occasionally attracted the attention of police officers while searching for the "Bunny", but they were cool about it, especially when they found that the operator of the transmitter was also a police officer (off-duty, of course!).

Along with other common sense stuff when approached by LEO's, carrying a printout with you would certainly make the explanation a bit easier.

By the way, this scenario may provide an opportunity to demonstrate the capabilities of portable GPS to interested LEO's; many are not into the technical stuff (but then there are several who are tech geeks ), but may well show sincere interest just the same. The value of GPS, along with a means to communicate, could be valuable in a Search and Rescue operation. I can recall several such cases over the years where a few good people with this sort of equipment could have made a search much easier and efficient.

4.4k · March 25, 2003

At the Stone Event on 3-22-2003 I noticed as well as the other 3 cachers that they were flying over in Aircraft and the Highway Patrol was in that Remote area because it is a National Park.We had no problems though and was glad to see that they are watching things very closely right now, I love my freedoms too but I also have to be alive to enjoy them...

WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS *GEOTRYAGAIN* http://www.msnusers.com/MissouriTrails

March 25, 2003

I think it's amusing how many people freak out over things in a preserve. I'm sure the terrorists are planning to attack us one tree at a time.

--

SpongeRob

rwmech@keenpeople.com

www.keenpeople.com

WPWU826

Cache'n Retrievers

March 26, 2003

Hi,

I am new to this sport, I discovered this webpage while surfing for software and the like for my Magellan GPS315.

At last! I now have a valid excuse to go get some exercise and have fun while doing it, as well as justifying the purchase of another "Techo-Gadget" to my significant other

I am also one of those "Techno" L.E.O's - I was very surprised to find one of the caches placed in a well known area of the city I work for. This area is well know to the citizens, because the Fulton County School Board wanted to bulldoze this pristine greenspace (one of the few left inside the I-285 beltway) to build a school !

Anyhow.....It might be prudent if you are a cache hider, to let your local L.E.O.'s agency know that you are placing this cache; there are many paranoids running about, if they were to stumble onto it, that would be hystericallly calling our overworked 911 operators about it

Eric T. Deem

East Point Police Department

[This message was edited by Vexorg_EPPD on March 27, 2003 at 06:28 PM.]

5.9k · March 27, 2003

quote:
Could Ammo Containers Launch Terror Alert?

The better question is, "Could ignorance launch a terror alert?" and the sad answer is yes. Has and will. People fear the things they do not know or understand. Your GPSr may or may not look ominous, but even some of the newer cell phones look like anything but.

Cache containers by their nature will arouse suspicions, regardless of the type.

Hide them well. Don't allow your behavior to be manipulated by the breezes that blow this way and that.

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

24.7k · March 27, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Vexorg_Jonesboro:
Hi,

I am new to this sport, I discovered this webpage while surfing for software and the like for my Magellan GPS315.

At last! I now have a valid excuse to go get some exercise and have fun while doing it, as well as justifying the purchase of another "Techo-Gadget" to my significant other

I am also one of those "Techno" L.E.O's - I was very surprised to find one of the caches placed in a well known area of the city I work for. This area is well know to the citizens, because the Fulton County School Board wanted to bulldoze this pristine greenspace (one of the few left inside the I-285 beltway) to build a school !

Anyhow.....It might be prudent if you are a cache hider, to let your local L.E.O.'s agency know that you are placing this cache; there are many paranoids running about, if they were to stumble onto it, that would be hystericallly calling our overworked 911 operators about it

Eric T. Deem

East Point Police Department

A geocacher did one of my caches. While parked the sherrif came across his car. They looked up the owner and called. They got his wife and asked "Do you know your car is in Kuna parked in a vacan't area" She said, no but her husband was geocaching in that area" The officer was happy with her knowing the car was walkabout. The geocaching didn't phase them even though they didn't know what it was.

When I read the log I emailed the sherrifs office and offered to let them know where my caches were at and show them what it's about. I got jack for a response.

Wherever you go there you are.

March 27, 2003

I had the pleasure of introducing two local officers to geocaching. Took about 45 minutes. I had to tell them all about it, let them frisk me, sit in the back of a cop car while they searched my car, then had to sit and talk with officer #1 while officer #2 when to find the cache. Then I got a warning for not having a front license plate

"Well, we found gloves and a flashlight. Vandals would carry these items, but we do understand that if you were doing what you say you were doing you might also want to have them..." It was Feb. in Nebraska, little after midnight, and less than 32 degrees out!

I kept caching thinking "ok" next cache will be normal. well after 3 abnormal caches i called it a night.

Clements Cacher

4.7k · March 28, 2003

the border patrol took one of mine recently. i just got a note from another cacher telling me he went and asked them to put it back. i'm dying to see how this one turns out.

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

March 29, 2003

quote:
"Well, we found gloves and a flashlight.

How unusual. Carrying gloves in Nebraska in February. Must have been a slow night for Officer Friendly.

Veni, Vidi, Cachi ...

4.7k · March 31, 2003

update on the confiscated cache: i hear it's been returned to its place and that 2 new geocachers are born. marvels never cease.

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

March 31, 2003

well, personally. im new to this and i say screw it. seriously, dont let this so called "terror" drive this away. this has been going on before 9-11. and will continue for probably a while. again, im new, but im a developer, I spend most of my days behind a desk on an army base, yeah these containers in "Public" areas can cause a scare.. that of course is if your an idiot and think powder sugar in the box might be some other chemical...

ok im dont ranting.. no im not, im still ticked by the baseball game today where peopel BOOed during hte natuional anthem.

HiTekRedNeck

-Lock & Load. then shoot it a few more times for fun

March 31, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by HiTekRedneck:
im still ticked by the baseball game today where peopel BOOed during hte natuional anthem.

I hope you are kidding. I see you are at APG. Was this at the O's game? What is wrong with people?

1.7k · April 1, 2003

I think painting over the ammo box markings would be a major step towards reducing anyone's "alarm". Adding a ceocache sticker to one side should help.

I am in the process of painting about 6 ammo cans.

DustyJacket

Not all those that wander are lost. But in my case...

April 1, 2003

"Could Ammo Containers Launch Terror Alert?"

Only if they learn to talk. Seriously though, a good hide and an innocuous, marked container would go a long way to alleviating possible concerns. People "prowling around" with electronic devices can raise the same concerns. I was stopped outside a federal building because I was observed on the monitors as possibly taking pictures of the building. I was just geocaching nearby with my son at a multicache near the building. Things are getting tighter out there

Veni, Vidi, Cachi ...

April 1, 2003

seriously, people BOOed during the anthem! I was sickened by that. at the O's Game!

anyway,

Lock and load. then program it some...and re-wire it.. then find one of my shotgun shell keychains which I will use as my calling card!1

-Lock & Load. then shoot it a few more times for fun

April 1, 2003

hmm, I wonder if I can get some of those old ammo containers from Nam my dad has then put a Mr Yuck sticker on them and hide it away =)

-HiTekRedNeck. Click Click Click... who used up all my rounds? Now I gotta go reload windows so i can break it again.

-Lock & Load. then shoot it a few more times for fun

Could Ammo Containers Launch Terror Alert?

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