First Finder

May 25, 2004

<_< I have been seeing an increase in first finder cache log entries from the same cachers. The same cachers are regularly finding new caches first and then celebrating their first find in their log entries while other cahcers log disapointment that they were not first. Now I must admit that I was excited with my first "first find". But when the next new cache came out and I wanted to get up at dawn to find it first, I knew there was a problem. It is called addiction, not geocaching. That realization caused me to stop the competitive addiction and I no longer go out after new caches, but rather wait until the flurry of finds subside.

So the question to geocachers is: Is this first finder emphasis healthy or destructive? Does it champion the cause, undermine the cause, or is it neutral? Should there be any guidelines regarding first finds and letting others (particularly new cachers) experience the thrill of the first find (and indeed it was a thrill, a 'Yippee', as I have seen posted)?

Just food for thought as we expand the geocaching horizon.

24.7k · May 25, 2004

If you want to get your butt up at 4am to find a cache first more power to you. I'm sleeping in and I still have more FTF's than a lot of cachers.

May 25, 2004

I see it as just another challenge added to the game. If people want to go to certain extremes in order to be the FTF, then they can. I don't have any FTF's but if one became available and I had the time to go out and be the FTF, I'd probably try for it every once in a while. But I wouldn't get out of bed at 3AM to do it. I don't understand the obsession of it though. It's not even counted in stats like a Found or DNF is. But to each his own. Every cache I go to is a FTF for me, so that's all that's important to me.

I don't think there should be any guidelines on FTF's but one way to curtail the same people being the FTF on all the caches around you, is to not lure them with nice FTF prizes like some people do. I think that's all the FTF cachers are after anyway.

May 25, 2004

10% of my cache finds have been firsts, and I love it. There is a certain thrill about being the first person there. I don't go to any great lengths to be first (honest!) but I will make a little extra time on the way to work to go get one. I think it keeps the game interesting to see who's going to be first to get there, especially on the harder caches.

As far as 'letting' others be first, they have just as much opportunity (actually more, as I work 'on the road') as I to get the FTF. I spent quite some time running all over the place trying to be first on several caches when I first started doing this. Now, I take my time and hope for the best.

May 25, 2004

Personally I'm not bothered by the FTF mega-seekers. If it gives them status, real or imagined, more power to them.

I've never been FTF and I'm not dashing out at 3am to try. If it happens some day, that's great. But I enjoy every hunt anyway and that's what matters.

If FTF means something to you, you just have to do what it takes to make it happen. Me? I'd rather sleep in. <_<

May 25, 2004

...and I'm not dashing out at 3am to try. If it happens some day, that's great....

My wife and I did this once... after that one time of looking for a breath strip container at 3am by penlight she said I could go by my self. It's not as fun without her, so I don't go that often <_<

2.8k · May 25, 2004

Kind of posted the same thing in another thread this morning.

By us, there are 2 cachers that always seem to be #1 and #2 in most log books. They are StayFloopy and BassoonPilot. They have thousands of combined finds. To me, being FTF is fun, but it's more of a challenge to just beat them to any cache. It also makes being a FTF, which I have 2 or 3 of I think, even extra special.

It's just a game, and if they are first, well, then they are first. It doesn't make me mad nor do I feel they shouldn't give it their all to find any cache that becomes available.

As for being arrogant in logs... That's not something I've seen, at least around here. BassoonPilot doesn't even log online any more and StayFloopy usually says nothing more about being first then "First is fun". For me, the best part about first on 1 cache was not the bragging rights, but the 1st place ribbon that was in the cache that one of my daughters that went with me that day took and still has hanging on her corkboard.

7.2k · May 25, 2004

I understand the thrill of opening a virgin cache. I suppose it can get addicting.

For me, the challenge of being MEFF is beating the better cachers in the area. It's not that much of a thrill to grab a drive-by and be MEFF. It is a thrill to beat them on the harder ones. (I don't know, maybe that's an arrogant view. Shows off our prowess to full effect and thus increasing our "status." I just know it's not a conscious effort to increase status, but to compete against the better cachers in the area.)

With that said, we have had caches pop up at 10 or 11 at night. We look at each other and just know the other wants to go for it. We grab up the gear and head out. We love to night cache.

Should there be any guidelines regarding first finds and letting others (particularly new cachers) experience the thrill of the first find (and indeed it was a thrill, a 'Yippee', as I have seen posted)?

I don't feel this should be the case at all. It's like social promotion in school. This is a little bit of a conflict of how I feel. I like to let lesser experienced cachers get FTF on the easier caches, but jump all over the harder ones. What better way to make cachers hone their skills than to make them compete for MEFF? By "letting" them be FTF it only makes them feel good, doesn't gain them any skills.

38.2k · May 25, 2004

So the question to geocachers is: Is this first finder emphasis healthy or destructive? Does it champion the cause, undermine the cause, or is it neutral? Should there be any guidelines regarding first finds and letting others (particularly new cachers) experience the thrill of the first find (and indeed it was a thrill, a 'Yippee', as I have seen posted)?

Its healthy for those who enjoy it, destructive to no one and otherwise neutral.

And no, there should not be anymore guidelines, particularly any regulating who can find caches and when.

May 25, 2004

Its healthy for those who enjoy it, destructive to no one and otherwise neutral.

And no, there should not be anymore guidelines, particularly any regulating who can find caches and when.

Yep!

I understand the thrill of opening a virgin cache. I suppose it can get addicting.

Yep! Addicted...

I love it. There is a certain thrill about being the first person there. I don't go to any great lengths to be first (honest!) but I will make a little extra time on the way to work to go get one. I think it keeps the game interesting to see who's going to be first to get there, especially on the harder caches.

Yep! Addicted but have to work for money to Geocache (and eat).

one way to curtail the same people being the FTF on all the caches around you, is to not lure them with nice FTF prizes like some people do. I think that's all the FTF cachers are after anyway.

NOPE! Has nothing to do with it for most folks who are hard core interested in the FTF. It will lure in cachers on the fringe but eventually they will get to the point where its not about the swag...its about the rush. Admittedly some better than others but still a rush!

I attend a Geocachers anonymous meeting every other week...Addicted!

May 25, 2004

A couple of times, I got into a short phase where I wanted to be first to find on puzzle caches in the area. I succeeded some fraction of the time. For whatever reason, most of the time I don't have that desire, so I don't try to be first to find.

But I don't feel a need to make my simple flip-flops of preference be more than they are. I don't think my preferences are some surface expression of conflicting deeper "healthy" or "unhealthy" behaviors struggling for dominance in my mind like some great confrontation between Ego and Id.

Geocaching is a game. Sometimes you want to play to win. Sometimes you just want to play. If you want to play to win, you have to come up with some way of keeping score. FTF counts are one such way.

-Jif

Edited May 25, 2004 by TeamJiffy

4.7k · May 25, 2004

well, yes and no. if you're into first finds, it's a competition. if you're into comparing your numbers with anyone else's, it's a competition.

for example:

geocacher one is willing to be on the road at 0500 to get a FF. she does not care how many FF's she has, nor does she care if she has more finds than you.

geocacher two cares about how many FF's she has and likes to have more geocaches found than you.

geocacher three does not give two hoots about how many finds she has, and only got a FF once, but it was an accident. she keeps a notebook of all her finds, but does not know how many are in it.

they are all legitimate players of the game. the SAME game, mind you. each of them is just as credible a player as the others.

if you want to compete, go ahead. if you want to race, go ahead. if you want to sleep in and then take a nice little walk in a park with a nice little surprise at the end, go for it. have a good time.

May 25, 2004

Geocaching is a competition. Weather you want to look at it that way or not is up to you. I have many FTF's but not because I WANT to be there first, it just works out that way. Keeping stats makes it competitive. Competition is healthy. Do you watch sports? Have you played sports or cards or a board game? Ever applied for a job? There is nothing wrong with competition, it makes us strive to be better. Can you imagine a baseball game without a score? :tongue:

May 25, 2004

I don't care for the "First Find Frenzy" myself. I'm not in it to rack up the numbers or to see how many I can get to before anyone else - I like to see new areas, and get a look at places that others deem special enough to warrant placing a cache there. Some folks live for it, though.

To each their own.

The only problem I've ever had with FTFers was when there was a rash of "swoopers" who would hit caches in order to be the first ones there, swap out several of the trade items, leaving a trail of keychains in their wake. They were prolific enough that the keychains were virtually ubiquitous in all the caches in the area, and everyone had seen so many of them that nobody would touch them anymore, and they would form a strata of sediment at the bottoms of all the area cache boxes.

Our solution was simple: Place it initially with the typical boring dollar-store trinkets and cheapie toys, wait until the swoopers had come in and done their damage, and then re-visit the cache about a week after placement. Empty out the worthless stuff, and replace it with the real cache goodies that people might actually be happy to see and trade for.

Once we instituted this plan, the swoopers were happy to get their precious FTFs on their logs, and the rest of the community were happy to find a box with something other than "we were here first" keychains in it. It actually made it better to be "Fifth To Find" than to be the first to swoop in on the box.

Plus, it had the added benefit of allowing a new cache to sit out in the world for a while with low-value stuff in it. If it could survive without being pillaged, then it seemed more likely to survive once the "real stuff" was added later.

Edit: added benefit

Edited May 25, 2004 by Seamus

May 25, 2004

The passionate and wide range of responses again points out the breadth of the call to caching, from heavy competitors/game players, to lone adventurer, and everything inbetween. It was good for me to see that variety and realize that not everyone views caching as I and it was helpful to read how others have dealt with the issue.

I think I shall try to take on the philosopy from PandyBat's: "Every cache I go to is a FTF for me, so that's all that's important to me."

Happy hunting, all.

May 25, 2004

Out of my 76 finds 10 are FTF's. But, I don't rush out to get 'em or lose any sleep. The FTF's I've found have been out there for an average of more than 25 days.

May 25, 2004

I'm just starting out, so I'm happy with any find! :tongue:

Maybe one day I'll get an FTF, but I won't lose any sleep over it. I'm just happy to be out there playing.

9.4k · May 25, 2004

We have a "friendly competition" in our area for FTF's. It's a good way to meet other cachers on the trail, since more cachers rush out the door when a new cache is placed.

I've been pretty busy lately with my event, but after this weekend I hope to start caching again.

9.4k · May 25, 2004

edit: duplicate post

Edited May 25, 2004 by Team GPSaxophone

May 25, 2004

FTF is fun (we've had a few), but I wouldn't say we have "First Finder's Fever". There is a little thrill to knowing that you are the first to see the contents of the cache (and FTF prizes are nice, too!)

However, when we did log our very first FTF, someone got pi**ed off at us like we somehow didn't have the right (?) to go after new caches and made a comment that got back to us! :tongue: So, for awhile we actually listed each new first find on our profile. But that seemed arrogant and pompous to us and against our nature (we're merely "evil!", hopefully not a**holes), so eventually we took it out of our profile.

Anyway, the long and the short of it is (for us, anyway) finding it first only means that for whatever reason (whether it is going out at 3:00 AM, being a SAHM, being retired, taking off from work) that someone had the time to do it first.

To those of you who go out at 2:00 AM - We give you "props!" You're a more dedicated and hard core cacher than we!! :blink:

May 25, 2004

An anecdote:

My wife is one of the most competitive people I know. (That is a nice way of saying she is a really poor loser) We used to play Sequence a lot (it's a game that uses a LOT of little chips). When I would come from behind to win...hooo boy! Got to be so we didn't play so much, but it was something she wanted to change about herself. Sure enough, it got so that she could lose and really not take it poorly. She really seemed to be able to just enjoy the quality time.

A few months went by like this, and we would play the game from time to time. One time, however, I was in a hurry at the end of the game and was gathering and putting away my chips very quickly. I noticed that my wife looked very intent and was gathering her chips quickly also. It suddenly dawned on me...this had become the game she was playing all along. She didn't care too much about the outcome of the board play because in her mind she had changed the game to "Who Can Pick up the Chips Fastest?" And she had been secretly whoopin me every single time! :tongue:

I called her on it, and she was miffed that I had stomped on her Zen. I still find it hilarious though.

The moral of this story is find your victory where you can. One of the things I like about caching is the variety of goals to pursue. If it was focused on FTF's, I would be lousy at it. I'll be thrilled to get an FTF someday, but I'm just too lazy a cacher to pursue it aggressively.

4.7k · May 25, 2004

<liberally snipped>

The only problem I've ever had with FTFers was when there was a rash of "swoopers" who would hit caches in order to be the first ones there, swap out several of the trade items, leaving a trail of keychains in their wake.

Our solution was simple: Place it initially with the typical boring dollar-store trinkets and cheapie toys, wait until the swoopers had come in and done their damage, and then re-visit the cache about a week after placement. Empty out the worthless stuff, and replace it with the real cache goodies that people might actually be happy to see and trade for.

happily, in this neighborhood we have a majority of cachers who are very conscientious about leaving things that people care to find, whether they are first or not.

i really like this plan, though.

May 25, 2004

The FTF is a special thing . . .

- seldom, only one FTF per Cache

- a special feeling to open the virgin cache

- challegning, because you have to find the cache without the "help" of reading former logs

- competetive, as in most sports.

I would not get out of bed in the night for a FTF, but I am always willing to get off work a few minutes earlier to be the FTF.

And - with or without FTF - of course I am addicted to this hobby :tongue: :blink: :lol: - and enjoying it.

More rules - no thanks

May 25, 2004

I just recently was the ftf a chache, and got a kick out of it. The cache had been there for a few days, and I didn't expect to be the first, but it was fun. I also recently placed a cache, and put in a first to find prize of a Palm Vx. I was very surprised to find that the first two cachers didn't take it, preferring to let someone else get it. I don't think the FTFers out ther are after the swag at all, at least not in my area. It is a bit of a competition, but I think it is just for the fun of it, and they are all very polite about it.

24.7k · May 25, 2004

Ok that's it. Lets ban FTF's. Nobody can log or find a cache first. We have to start at second. If you cant manage an STF tough nuts. Game over, lets go home.

May 25, 2004

I agree if the rest of you cant play nice, go home. Then ALL the CACHES will be MINE all MINE all the FTF's will be MINE hahahahahaha

May 25, 2004

I don't think there should be any guidelines on FTF's but one way to curtail the same people being the FTF on all the caches around you, is to not lure them with nice FTF prizes like some people do. I think that's all the FTF cachers are after anyway.

I don't think the swag is what motivates these people. I had 5 FTF's last week and I took one thing, a pair of long tweezers to help get the log out of a film canister. :tongue:

May 26, 2004

Where I am, there is a small group that it seems all they care about is FTF, so much so, they even take time off from work sometimes, on the spur of the moment. The only thing I can figure is that they weren't able to pace themselves, and since they have run out of caches to find, the only fun they have anymore is trying to make super-duper hard puzzle caches (which really aren't that hard...), super remote caches or FTF.

strange when you think about it....but to each their own. I couldn't really care less about FTF. :tongue:

namaskar

May 26, 2004

The best idea I have seen is the one where you put the junk in for the FTF folks to pillage, then put in the good stuff later. It wouldn't change the rush they get from the FTF, but it might stop the pillaging of caches. We have a few groups around here who follow people with new caches in their trucks so they can be the first. We finally beat them to one the other day . . .Fun! :tongue: :blink: :lol:

38.2k · May 26, 2004

I just recently was the ftf a chache, and got a kick out of it. The cache had been there for a few days, and I didn't expect to be the first, but it was fun. I also recently placed a cache, and put in a first to find prize of a Palm Vx. I was very surprised to find that the first two cachers didn't take it, preferring to let someone else get it. I don't think the FTFers out ther are after the swag at all, at least not in my area.

I've put new geocaching.com hats in as a FTF prize and the FTF has never taken them. One time the hat lasted until the 3rd, or 4th finder. I also have put a decen pair of binoculars in a cache as a FTF prize. 6 months and a dozen finds later he binocs are still in there.

Also, in micros, I like to put in old coins, Indian head pennies, buffalo nickels, mercury dimes, etc... I archived a micro of mine after about 10 finds and the old coins were still in there.

So yes, I don't think most FTFers, or most geocachers for that matter are out for the swag.

2.8k · May 26, 2004

I've put new geocaching.com hats in as a FTF prize and the FTF has never taken them. One time the hat lasted until the 3rd, or 4th finder.

Actually, *I* was the 6th finder and thank you VERY much! I logged it 2 weeks after the 1st person logged a find. I think that shows that the indivuals that place caches as well as cachers in our area are thoughtful and generous individuals.

If I came upon another gc.com hat, I'd leave it for another cacher who I'm sure will be just as thrilled as I was and still am.

I was recently a FTF at a new cache. I rushed out, but not for the FTF, but because I hadn't yet logged a GeoCoin and there was one in the cache. I looked at the FTF gift and because I do live in the area (it was a VERY generous gift cert for a local restaurant) I kept it. If it wasn't convenient for me to use it, I would have left that gift for someone else that would be able to enjoy it.

May 26, 2004

I don't really care, I have one, and I didn't somehow feel any better for it :tongue:

First Finder

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