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drawing the line on tasteful cache items


protocoldroid
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alright, i know this is -super- subjective... but, where do you draw the line with tasteful cache items?

 

i know there some obvious no-no's (guns, drugs, knives, etc), but....

 

My girlfriend inherited this rather large collection of old playboys (ranging from 1959 to the mid 1980s -- none are mint), and I thought they'd be really awesome cache items (especially the old old ones).

 

We debated if they'd be appropriate. I know most cachers are well over 18 -- but, I also know a lot of people go caching with their kids.

 

I argued that they're appropriate... My argument being "come on! all issues from 1961-1967 total have less nipples than ONE of your average internet pop-up ads!", but, my girlfriend argued "it's still porn, even if it's not penthouse!"

 

Anyways... We decided to go ahead and find other, more neutral, items to trade.

 

What do you all think, not only about the antique playboys, but... Where do you draw the line in general? If your items are TOO neutral -- they're boring.

 

I shouldn't toss religion in the mix, but... I've seen some bible-verse bookmarks in caches near-by where I live, and... IMHO, that's fine. But, is it appropriate? Porn might be offensive to some, but, religion to others (I hesitate to ask this question: what has started more wars -- religion or porn?)

 

Anyhow... I don't mean to offend anyone, and this isn't intended as flame-bait, just curious to find out the "range of taste" for trading items.

 

Thanks!

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I don't think it really is a matter of taste.

 

It is a matter of appropriateness when you have little ones tagging along enjoying the hunt. Considering how family oriented this sport is, I would have to agree the porn (as tame as it can be considered) is still porn and not family appropriate. Religion doesn't even come to the same level of inappropriateness.

 

I let my niece go through the items in a hunt I took her and her father on. I would have been embarrassed to have to have dealt with that issue with her at such a young age if she pulled something like that out.

 

Perhaps a new category of Adults Only can be created to handle something like this.

 

Cheers!

TL

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I say go for it. Maybe a themed cache with a warning that it is not family oriented. But what do I know? I've been caching for barely 3 months.

 

Prediction: This thread will turn into a huge argument. Main contenders; Renegade Knight and Ninchelser (George)

 

Lookin foreword to it icon_wink.gif Thanks for the thread.

 

Snicon_razz.gificon_razz.gifgans

The greatest labor saving invention of today is tomorrow....http://www.texasgeocaching.com

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I personally wouldn't have a problem finding them nor would I have interest in them, BUT I'm sure other cachers would......Even if you set up your own Adult only cache well marked on the cache page just for porn, someone wouldn't read and bring there kids and then be screaming on the boards, so I would say if you really like these magazines keep them for your own viewing... check out this thread A current TBpeople find this little guy offensive and it isn't even true life pictures......

 

Do you get funny looks from co-workers -when you say your going into the woods with a 200$ gadet to find kids toys?

See You In the Woods!!!

Natureboy1376

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As a female geocacher, I find this:

 

Inappropriate.

 

I wouldn't appreciate finding Playboys, I spend enough of my time trying to avoid that crap everywhere else, I certainly don't want to stumble across it in a cache.

If you have to, make a theme cache or members only to leave them in and *very clearly mention the content*, but for God's sake don't leave one as trade item in MY caches.

 

My opinion, and you can't change that! icon_razz.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Natureboy1376:

I personally wouldn't have a problem finding them nor would I have interest in them, BUT I'm sure other cachers would......Even if you set up your own Adult only cache well marked on the cache page just for porn, someone wouldn't read and bring there kids and then be screaming on the boards, so I would say if you really like these magazines keep them for your own viewing... check out this thread http://ubbx.Groundspeak.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=5726007311&f=6016058331&m=73560605&r=91560295#91560295people find this little guy offensive and it isn't even true life pictures......

 

Natureboy1376


 

That's the thread that I was hinting about. icon_wink.gif Natureboy is right though. People with young-uns sometimes don't read the page before they set out a seekin. I love to read the notes on puzzle and locationless cache pages of people who say thay hauled their family to the coords, but couldn't find the cache when the page clearly states in bold lettering 3 times: The cache is not at the coordinates posted!!!

 

Snicon_razz.gificon_razz.gifgans

The greatest labor saving invention of today is tomorrow....http://www.texasgeocaching.com

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quote:
Originally posted by MountainMudbug:

As a female geocacher, I find this:

 

Inappropriate.

 

My opinion, and you can't change that! icon_razz.gif


 

Please don't take this the wrong way as I am only kidding, but your avatar..... I lost my GPS instruction book back in 1996. Is that an appropriate place to carry one? It looks....Uncomfortable.

 

Snicon_razz.gificon_razz.gifgans

The greatest labor saving invention of today is tomorrow....http://www.texasgeocaching.com

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If you do make an adult only cache and put these in it, please place it near me. icon_smile.gif

 

I don't know what I'd leave as a trade item on that one though . . . have to think on that.

 

I know that this whole post has been off topic, but I think the old playboys are pretty classy and enjoy when I run across one . . .

 

I would also really enjoy it if there was anyway for me to post to this thread as not opposed to the playboys and not come across as a pervert . . . Does it make a difference if I say I don't think they should be in a regular cache?

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quote:

<<snip>>

I think the old playboys are pretty classy and enjoy when I run across one

<<snip>>

I would also really enjoy it if there was anyway for me to post to this thread as not opposed to the playboys and not come across as a pervert.


 

see, i thought the same thing, at least in comparison to "modern porn" -- the old playboys are -really- classy, and they've got a lot more vintage cars than vintage porn. but.... aside from the fact that the magazines are mostly ads / articles, I think most people don't see past the couple nude images into the fact that a vintage playboy is a short lesson in american pop-culture, and... they do see it as perverse. Although... anyone who thinks playboy is perverse, might want to watch that Larry Flynt movie -- then they'd think twice.

 

took "night nurses join the navy", left "there's something -else- about mary #5".

 

sorry couldn't help myself, that would be hilarious to read in a log book. Seems like it would be hilarious to have an adults-only cache, it'd be well worth the laugh.

 

BUT! caching isn't big enough in the area I live in to get much attention for an adult theme cache, honestly... At least at the moment, I wouldn't leave anything more offensive than a wheresgeorge bill in a cache. Reason being... I want geocaching to get bigger here, I wouldn't want anything to turn anyone off of geocaching.

 

Doesn't mean I'm not interested in what people think... I just want to be as much of a "geocaching evangelist" as possible.

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quote:
Originally posted by protocoldroid:

 

I think most people don't see past the couple nude images into the fact that a vintage playboy is a short lesson in american pop-culture


 

to refute my own statement... to this day, if my dad tried to teach me a lesson about american pop culture by showing me an old playboy... i'd think he was weird, and probably not a lesson to teach a child.

 

for a lesson in pop culture, i'd rather he had me listen to "the jimi hendrix experience" but, even "i can't get no satisfaction" by the rolling stones is 'inappropriate' in a way, but, pales incomparison to say, "too live crew".

 

i don't have a signature yet, but, maybe this should be it...

 

yes, I'm known for going off on a tangent icon_wink.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by wfosborn:

I think an adult themed cache would get *tons* more people interested in caching here . . . Ever visit Key West? The whole island is adult themed, and *much* worse than old playboys. icon_redface.gif


 

actually, yes icon_smile.gif before my grandparents went on the quest for 'the great geocache in the sky', they lived in Islamorada -- and I went to keywest once when I was 12... Growing up in picket-fence new hampshire... Krikes was that a shock -- guess my parents should've stuck with "theatre of the sea"!!!!

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quote:
Originally posted by protocoldroid:

actually, yes icon_smile.gif before my grandparents went on the quest for 'the great geocache in the sky', they lived in Islamorada -- and I went to keywest once when I was 12... Growing up in picket-fence new hampshire... Krikes was that a shock -- guess my parents should've stuck with "theatre of the sea"!!!!


 

Now if you'll just say it was for fantasy fest I'm going to fall out of my chair laughing . . . And how did we get to this again from the original question?

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quote:
Originally posted by wfosborn:

 

I would also really enjoy it if there was anyway for me to post to this thread as not opposed to the playboys and not come across as a pervert . . . Does it make a difference if I say I don't think they should be in a regular cache?


 

It isn't that checking out Playboys is perverted, its just that they're not universally acceptable trade items.

They only should be in certain places - not all of us want to look at them, so we shouldn't run across them in places where 'porn' (however you choose to define it) is generally not found, ie: geocaches.

 

This is why they're not featured prominently on the magazine rack next to the crosswords in the checkout line at the Piggly Wiggly.

 

It just fits into the same category as drugs, knives, guns, cigarettes, syringes, etc. Why leave these dangerous/questionable items when there are literally TONS of other trade items that anyone of any sex or age could enjoy and appreciate?

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To be simple,I say no adult only caches,for how does one know if a user is a adult? We cannot ask for a credit card or something to prove your a adult because as much as it's a good way of prove,someone may say "MAYBE THEY WILL CHARGE ME!"(meaning Groundspeak,even though they are trustworthy) so,point is,we should not have too many rules,so we can still interest new cachers.

 

*******************************************************

Did you say you want to go on ANOTHER geocacheing trip?

*******************************************************

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As a female geocacher I would no more take an old Playboy than I'd take a religious tract or a McToy but I wouldn't be incensed by its presence in a cache either. I figure it's not for me but it might interest somebody else. I don't have a problem with the obscenity of porn as such, just that most of it is ugly and tacky. I think of most porn like I think of burgundy and green formica with brass trim: I don't have a problem with decor, just butt-ugly decor. Maybe some people like having burgundy and green formica at home, but good God, I don't want to see it. Having said that, I would consider old Playboys pretty tasteful as porn goes, just old and boring in my opinion.

 

I can see a few problems with an adults-only cache though:

 

  • the best way to attract kids to a cache is to make it adults-only.

  • I would bet that a cache of porn would be more likely to get plundered, again as likely as not by kids

  • if kids do get into the cache and find porn, their parents could get all peeved at GC.com, with unpleasant consequences

 

I would also hate for porn to become a standard trade item - the burgundy formica problem again. But then there's a lot of burgundy formica-level junk out there, just read any of the threads about trash in caches.

 

[This message was edited by Sugar Kane on May 21, 2003 at 08:30 PM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by Sugar Kane:

As a female geocacher I would no more take an old Playboy than I'd take a religious tract or a McToy but I wouldn't be incensed by its presence in a cache either. I figure it's not for me but it might interest somebody else. I don't have a problem with the obscenity of porn as such, just that most of it is ugly and tacky. I think of most porn like I think of burgundy and green formica with brass trim: I don't have a problem with decor, just butt-ugly decor. Maybe some people like having burgundy and green formica at home, but good God, I don't want to see it.

 

I can see a few problems with an adults-only cache though:

 

+ the best way to attract kids to a cache is to make it adults-only.

+ I would bet that a cache of porn would be more likely to get plundered, again as likely as not by kids

+ if kids do get into the cache and find porn, their parents could get all peeved at GC.com, with unpleasant consequences

 

I would also hate for porn to become a standard trade item - the burgundy formica problem again. But then there's a lot of burgundy formica-level junk out there, just read any of the threads about trash in caches.


 

I agree completely with everything said,it's purely not a good trade item.

 

*******************************************************

Did you say you want to go on ANOTHER geocacheing trip?

*******************************************************

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Just what we need to find- a soggy, lump of pulp that used to be a Playboy. How do you get it into a decon container or a tupperware dish anyway?

 

More serious comments:

 

When I was younger I used to walk in the woods in a local park and more than once 'happened upon' a stash of Playboys in a hollow log. (No, I didn't stash them, Yes I looked at them.) So I guess it wouldn't be anything new. I'm sure the local kids would thank you for the 'gift'. And perhaps the local 'park perverts' too. Said 'perverts' are more of a concern to me.

 

There have been several threads about 'perverted' activity in parks encountered by geocachers.

 

Why feed them?

 

Basically these mags would be inappropriate but IMHO the excuse of shielding our kids is a little lame.

 

In my generation people used to say 'oh, my virgin ears' to which the common reply was 'that's the only thing that's left'.

 

My point is that, in today's society, our kids' eyes and ears are filled with trash almost constantly and it is futile at best to try to shield them all the time.

 

Which is not to say that we need more of it- WE DO NOT!

 

But If the kids are going to participate in caching, they should be prepared in advance, by their parents, for things they might find or see during the trip. Even if no one ever put anything offensive in a cache, they are still likely to encounter offensive things.

 

When something offensive is encountered the only thing the parents or leaders can do is attempt to minimize it and report it to the authorities. It is not possible to eliminate it in advance.

 

So I'm agin it, so there.

 

Caint never did nothing.

GDAE, Dave

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some very excellent points. on the points of universal acceptability (MountainMudbug) and 'how do we know they're adults' (mattfman), and I 100% agree that calling a cache an adult cache would attract kids (Sugar Kane)

 

I'm saying "if it's too neutral -- it's boring". Cause, just like horoscopes, if it's applicable to everyone, it's not applicable to anyone. The good news is geocachers seem to be generally open minded and really creative trading. Even in my short time geocaching, I've seen really interesting trade items.

 

Anyhow, to make the 'game' (event/sport/whatever you'd like) civil -- you've got to have that middle ground. It's got to have organization.

 

and of course, to go around the river and through the woods to not avoid a colloquialism, "One man's trash is another mans treasure" --> And in a unique way this applies to geocaching. There are going to be those few things that seem universal to some and are definately not to others. I think of playboys from the 60s as collectors items (perfect condition or not, they're interesting), and there are certainly going to be people who think they're still garbage.

 

There was a previous thread on putting a rubber snake in a cache, and some people thought that was a bad idea. Well...

 

I'm glad the rules of geocaching, are, in some ways flexible. Variety is the spice of life.

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quote:
Originally posted by ChurchCampDave:

<<snip>>

Basically these mags would be inappropriate but IMHO the excuse of shielding our kids is a little lame.

<<snip>>

But If the kids are going to participate in caching, they should be prepared in advance, by their parents, for things they might find or see during the trip. Even if no one ever put anything offensive in a cache, they are still likely to encounter offensive things.

<<snip>>


 

Well thought out reply. I think that's a very realistic approach, it's the parents who are responsible for their kids in the end.

 

As I'm sure you noticed, We decided to not place any playboy magazines (even prior to the post)... My girlfriend has this rather extensive collection of not-so-valuable antique publications (she's a graphic designer, it's mostly tons of [obsolete] advertisements), and a lot of the stuff is really interesting / entertaining. Aside from the fact that I wouldn't want to turn sensitive people off of geocaching (i want -everyone- to geocache, the more geocaches the more players, the better). It also came down to the fact that if we wanted to contribute something along that vein -- there's plenty of selection that's not so provocative.

 

I agree it might get soggy in some caches, but, I've seen some caches that have held up well, for their age, that some paper items might be preserved in.

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quote:
Originally posted by ChurchCampDave:

More serious comments:

 

Basically these mags would be inappropriate but IMHO the excuse of shielding our kids is a little lame.

 

In my generation people used to say 'oh, my virgin ears' to which the common reply was 'that's the only thing that's left'.

 

My point is that, in today's society, our kids' eyes and ears are filled with trash almost constantly and it is futile at best to try to shield them all the time.

 

GDAE, Dave


 

ChurchCampDave, I understand you're against the pulp being put in place, but I disagree with this particular statementn and just for the sake of debate, as a parent, I would like to express why without trying to make you feel like I'm attacking you.

 

It's that pervasive attitude you stated here that allows the trash to be as pervasive as it is to our children. That doesn't mean as parents we should just sit back and allow them to watch it with wide-eyed wonderment.

 

In spite of the pervasiveness of the crap that's out there right now, we shield our children as best as we can by various means available to us, from preventing them from reading certain materials, to viewing specific movies.

 

So now if I need to preview a cache instead of allowing a youngster to open it up and enjoy the moment; I'd rather not introduce them to the sport at all if that were the case. Ultimately, I, as an active geocache hunter, as new as I am at it, would ultimately end up quitting the sport if I am unable to enjoy it with my family without first previewing it to protect the innocense of a young one. Nor would I, as a parent, make recommendations to other parents whom may not be participants now, but my enthusiasm would make them active soon. I have two families ready to buy GPSr's and start up on the hunt.

 

Lame? This opinion does not exactly match mine. I don't think it is lame to protect a six year old from things they have no business knowing about for another 6 or 7 years at the very least regardless of what is "already out there".

 

Cheers!

TL

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We beat a monkey with a full compliment of equipment to death about whether or not he's ok for a travel bug.

 

The bottom line though is that this is a family sport. If you have to be 18/21 to buy it on your own, it doesn't belong in the cache. I know they don't sell playboy to minors so that's out. I'm not sure about the monkey.

 

=====================

Wherever you go there you are.

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protocoldroid,

 

I am quite familiar with the early Playboy issues, and they are quite tame compared to today's level of standards. Where do we draw the line once this is introduced?

 

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not attacking your idea as a bad idea. I'm thinking for most caches, it is inappropriate if a young kid is able to gain access to it easily. I am open to ideas on how to allow this to happen without offending the general geocacher with young children.

 

Perhaps a cache that has some distance from the mainstream where young children will be less likely to come across it would be the criteria to follow.

 

Speaking for myself, I'm less likely to cause anyone younger than 12 to hike more than a couple miles off the main road or away from the main camp. Maybe a general consensus of how far parents take their young kids hiking would help build that criteria for you to use.

 

Cheers!

TL

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Well I see this board is no different than those I have been on for a while.

I thought about just skiping this and not post, But what the heck. I might as well jump in and get my feet wet.

 

My question to you is,"Why would you want to do this?"

On the other boards we get people who like to mix up "Sex" and present it to people and see what problems it can cause.

"It's my right" is the battle call of those groups. What about the rights of others who do not wish to see these items?? Do those rights not count?

"It's harmless" or is it now? You place these items in then someone else will try and top it. It grows and grows, getting worse each time, till you have your own little porn cashe. Isnt this great? How about adding child porn in with it? Isnt it their right to shock people?

Just some thought...

Now lets jut talk about, "Rights." Great things arnt they. Sure you have the right to do things like this But others have the right not to be exposed to it! Why not mark it Porn/adult cache?

Funny thing about these "Rights" they come with a lot of responcibilitys that some people tend to forget about.

Well its after 2 and I am going to try and get some sleep.

Good night.

Rick

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Nude adults tastely photographed constitute porn? (Playboy is very tasteful, as opposed to Hustler. These two periodicals are VERY different.)

 

Everyone is born naked, everyone is naked under their clothing. The nude body is beautiful and marvelously made (even me at 280#). What is so shameful about that?

--laurak of dasein

 

Temporarily French Polynesia's most prolific geocachers!

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Leave them out so the prudes don't have anything to say about it.

 

I agree most heartily with DustyJacket. The surface of our society is prudish in the extreme. Any U.S. paper that tried to mimic Britian's Page 3 Girl would be burned to the ground, both figuratively and literally! If the media got wind of Playboys in a cache, we would suffer the same fate.

 

Don't do it.

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IMHO:

 

As tasteful as some of you think they are, it is not tasteful if a 5 year old opens the cache and opens the mag.

 

I think the question here is are the mags ok for caches, NOT are the magazines tasteful or considered porno.

 

I also think the few that say they are ok for a cache must not have young kids.

 

I think if I found an old TIME Magazine it would be cooler than a Playboy.

 

Live to Cache... Cache to Live...

 

[This message was edited by Team Spending Time, Saving Cache on May 22, 2003 at 05:28 AM.]

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I only cache for the magazine articles! icon_biggrin.gif

 

...keep them out of the cache. You wouldn't be able to find the same magazines at the public library. Geocaches could be considered open to the same audience, same public access as the library. (although, I seem to recall a lawsuit over whether a library had to put the braille edition of Playboy in circulation)

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Totemlake:

 

I never meent to imply that the fact that trash is pervasive in any way makes it acceptable. (Or to you who think Playboy is OK, I am not passing judgement on Playboy either)

 

Nor did I mean that it is 'lame' to TRY to shield your kids from the trash that is out there. (the next line after your cut says:

quote:
Which is not to say that we need more of it- WE DO NOT!


 

It is very admirable to TRY to shield kids form it. But it is also very naieve to think it can be done successfully.

 

If you think you have succeeded, they probably know a lot that they aint telling you.

 

If your kids are not home schooled they:

 

Have been offered drugs.

Have seen sexually explicit materials.

Have been offered alcohol.

Have been offered cigarettes.

Have talked about sex.

Have talked about suicide.

Hvae seen movies that you would find objectionable.

Etc.

 

My point is that , rather than ineffective shielding, we need to practice steering of the information in a proper direction. Rather than blinding and deafening the child, use the opportunities engendered by their natural curiosity to explain God's purpose for sex and the natural enjoyment of sex in the way it was designed to be enjoyed- as they are able to understand and handle it.

 

My meaning by 'lame' is simply that the EXCUSE that keeping sexually explicit material out of caches would significantly protect the children from exposure to it is irrational. The key word is 'significantly'.

 

I totally agree that we should do what we can to minimize our children's exposure to things we consider inappropriate for them.

 

We do not need more smut- anywhere. I simply don't think caching would be a significant source given the pervasiveness of it in the general environment.

 

A more poignant situation that I alluded to in my post is the LIKELIHOOD that REAL SEXUAL ENCOUNTERS will happen and have happened in parks.

 

As parents, we need to be much more vigilant in preparing children for these. If Playboy is offensive, what are you gonna do when you encounter homosexuals 'going at it' on the trail to a cache- live, in living color, 3D?

 

And OK, so I might not be labelled a homophobe (probably will be anyway), it really doesn't matter if they are heterosexual. Just that homosexual has more 'shock value' to most people.

 

Obviously you would call the cops- but beyond that, How do you explain to your child what they just saw?

 

Perhaps, given this, caching should be an adults only sport.

 

Boy, did I just open a can of worms!

 

Let the flames fly!

 

Caint never did nothing.

GDAE, Dave

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quote:
Originally posted by Cache'N'Carry:

I only cache for the magazine articles! icon_biggrin.gif

 

...keep them out of the cache. You wouldn't be able to find the same magazines at the public library. Geocaches could be considered open to the same audience, same public access as the library. (although, I seem to recall a lawsuit over whether a library had to put the braille edition of Playboy in circulation)


 

Wow!

The public library. The last bastian of public decency.

 

The only place a pervert can go to look at kiddy porn (on the internet) without fear of going to jail- and plenty of people willing to sue for their 'right' to do so.

 

Caint never did nothing.

GDAE, Dave

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quote:
Originally posted by Cache'N'Carry:

I only cache for the magazine articles! icon_biggrin.gif

 

...keep them out of the cache. You wouldn't be able to find the same magazines at the public library. Geocaches could be considered open to the same audience, same public access as the library. (although, I seem to recall a lawsuit over whether a library had to put the braille edition of Playboy in circulation)


 

Random off-topic story - Some years back, a local prude was incensed to find a copy of More Joy of Sex on the shelves. Taking it to the local newspaper, he found a less that receptive audience to his calls for censorship...

 

Still, I think the Playboys can be put to a better use. If you don't plan on keeping them, put the collection up on eBay, take the money you get autioning them off, and buy some really fun trade items.

 

Ron/yumitori

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QUOTE]

 

I think its pretty obvious.... mess with me on a cache hunt and this is where your GPS ends up icon_razz.gif

 

Thats what I thought it was, who is the poor cacher who messed with you! icon_biggrin.gif

 

Do you get funny looks from co-workers -when you say your going into the woods with a 200$ gadet to find kids toys?

See You In the Woods!!!

Natureboy1376

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Just some random thoughts to add to this thread. Reading about the old '60's Playboys made me remember trips to my grandparents where I would hang out upstairs in my uncles old rooms pretending to read the Almanac or World Books, but with an old Playboy of theirs stashed inside. icon_cool.gif

I am far from prudish, but agree with most here that these are not appropriate cache trade items, even if the cache is labelled Adults Only. That is about as effective as a Wet Paint sign. icon_rolleyes.gif

I do not object to finding religious items in caches but have zero interest in them. frog.gif

Finally, when I cache I switch my cell phone to vibrate as to not disturb the sounds of the woods. I thought that was the case with Mountain Mudbug's avatar! icon_biggrin.gif

quote:
Originally posted by Natureboy1376:

MountainMudbug what is that avatar of yours? Just curious?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

I think its pretty obvious.... mess with me on a cache hunt and this is where your GPS ends up


 

These changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes;

Nothing remains quite the same.

Through all of the islands and all of the highlands,

If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane

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quote:
Originally posted by yumitori:

Still, I think the Playboys can be put to a better use. If you don't plan on keeping them, put the collection up on eBay, take the money you get autioning them off, and buy some really fun trade items.

 

Ron/yumitori


 

not a bad idea, but, funny thing is... the collection (315 issues large) is the remainder of what couldn't be sold on ebay by a friend of my girlfriend. it's missing all the -really- valuable ones (like the marilyn monroe cover one -- schtuff like that). might be able to sell them 'as a lot', but my girlfriend does use them as a reference, and might have to ship that many via common carrier! <JK>

 

anyhow... i'm constantly brainstorming on unique / interesting trade items that don't cost me anything. if i had the big bucks, i'd certainly get a kick out of leaving more expensive items :D (I'd say 'more fun' but, cheap stuff can be fun. see busch box in wimseyguy's avatar above -- any cat in a beer box is more entertaining than my pricey digital cable -- gaurunteed)

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quote:
Originally posted by ChurchCampDave:

Totemlake:

 

I never meent to imply that the fact that trash is pervasive in any way makes it acceptable. (Or to you who think Playboy is OK, I am not passing judgement on Playboy either)


 

That wasn't the intent of my debate. You made a point and I argued it as a parent. That's all.

Btw, I didn't say Playboy was OK. I merely stated that those particular issues are tame by comparison of today's standards. Does that change my stand on my need to shield? No. You would be surprised what my child was not allowed to watch up until she turned 15.

 

I did however, toss out a suggestion for criteria that would allow adult only themes. By this thread, there does seem to be ~some~ desire for it.

 

quote:
Nor did I mean that it is 'lame' to TRY to shield your kids from the trash that is out there. (the next line after your cut says:
quote:
Which is not to say that we need more of it- WE DO NOT!

 

I know you didn't. Nor did I intend to misquote you out of context. You called it a lame excuse as noted below:

 

quote:
Basically these mags would be inappropriate but IMHO the excuse of shielding our kids is a little lame.

 

However, you did point out the very problem that is pervasive, and I failed to properly articulate it is; the village consistently fails in its inability to shield children from things that are inappropriate. As a result (and you listed it so well) the children:

 

quote:
Have been offered drugs.

Have seen sexually explicit materials.

Have been offered alcohol.

Have been offered cigarettes.

Have talked about sex.

Have talked about suicide.

Hvae seen movies that you would find objectionable.

Etc.

 

My point is that , rather than ineffective shielding, we need to practice steering of the information in a proper direction. Rather than blinding and deafening the child, use the opportunities engendered by their natural curiosity to explain God's purpose for sex and the natural enjoyment of sex in the way it was designed to be enjoyed- as they are able to understand and handle it.


 

And again, agreed.

 

quote:
My meaning by 'lame' is simply that the EXCUSE that keeping sexually explicit material out of caches would significantly protect the children from exposure to it is irrational. The key word is 'significantly'.

 

I think you misunderstood my arguement. I didn't come close to implying the protection would be significant. I did state I shouldn't have to preview the cache and take away the wonderment of discovery.

 

If I had to be required to preview the box just to protect my child from what is inappropriate and take away the initial discovery from that child because of that preview, I, as a geocache hunter and parent would have to quit and not recommend this sport to other families.

 

quote:
I totally agree that we should do what we can to minimize our children's exposure to things we consider inappropriate for them.

 

We do not need more smut- anywhere. I simply don't think caching would be a significant source given the pervasiveness of it in the general environment.


 

And I had hoped that I had expressed the same arguement by adding the action I would choose to take to protect my little ones. If I failed to do so, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

 

Cheers!

TL

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I really didn't mean to imply that you misunderstood or even disagreed. Although my response was directed by what you wrote,and addressed to you specifically because of your quote, many of my comments are intended also for the larger audience.

 

I believe we see eye-to-eye on quite a bit of this issue- if not all of it.

 

Caint never did nothing.

GDAE, Dave

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quote:
Originally posted by Enos Shenk, KSC:

I would much rather find porn in a cache, then religious tracts. In fact if i ever found religious tracts, i would immediately trade for them, and get rid of them.

 

Thats something we dont need in caches.

 

[Episkipos Enos Shenk, KSC]

 

[http://enos.deviantart.com]


 

What are you afraid of?

 

Caint never did nothing.

GDAE, Dave

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quote:
Originally posted by ChurchCampDave:

I really didn't mean to imply that you misunderstood or even disagreed. Although my response was directed by what you wrote,and addressed to you specifically because of your quote, many of my comments are intended also for the larger audience.

 

I believe we see eye-to-eye on quite a bit of this issue- if not all of it.

 

Caint never did nothing.

GDAE, Dave


 

DOH! Guess I missed that. icon_biggrin.gif

 

Cheers!

TL

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