Site Suggestion

[+logger&trail]

I had a suggestion for an additional feature on the cache pages. When you visit your own cache pages it would be great to be able to find out who the watchers are. Sometimes I will see 7 people watching a cache and say, "Gee I wonder who is interested?" This could serve a very useful purpose especially for event caches. Say you post an event cache and want to know who is interested. It would be great to be able to create a list of users that would be interested in attending. I would think that a feature like this should be accessible to the cache owner only.

 

Just a suggestion

 

Happy Caching!

 

Logger

[+MarcB]

This has been mentioned a *lot* of times before. I think it ended up with a "no" for various reasons.

MarcB

[+Team GPSaxophone]

I would love to be able to see who is watching my cache. I think it is a great idea.

 

Here are some other threads commenting about the same thing

 

This is a big issue around here, but the last poll that was done indicated mixed results. You can view that discussion here

 

edit: fixed link.

Edited February 29, 2004 by Team GPSaxophone

[+flask]

on the one hand, i'd LOVE to know who else besides me is watching a cache.

 

on the other hand, i don't want anyone to know i'm watching it.

[+logger&trail]

Why would you not want an owner to know that you are watching his cache? Unless you are planning a deep undercover covert operation I can't see any possible reason that a watcher wouldn't want his presence known. To me it would be flattering to know that someone was interested enough in my cache to "watch" it

 

Happy caching!

 

Logger

[+Imajika]

Why would you not want an owner to know that you are watching his cache? Unless you are planning a deep undercover covert operation I can't see any possible reason that a watcher wouldn't want his presence known. To me it would be flattering to know that someone was interested enough in my cache to "watch" it

 

Happy caching!

 

Logger

It does show you how many people are watching it...as a number. Right now, no one is watching my team's caches except for me.

 

Honestly, I don't care to know the user name of a person watching my caches. As long as I know someone else is watching them besides me, it's cool. Although, as I mentioned earlier, no one IS watching them except me right now.

 

I figure if the person watching wants to email me, they will. If not, I don't care. Have fun watching my cache you anonymous cacher!

[+flask]

if i knew who was watching a particular cache, i might have an idea about who i'm racing for a FF.

 

...for instance.

[+bons]

Every time I see these threads I realize that people seem to think I'm watching a cache for completely different reasons. If I'm interested in attending an event I'm more likely to post a note than watch the cache. I may be watching a cache because it's at a prime location for the "nearest caches" function. I may be watching it because I want to look at some of the logs or even the HTML later. In many cases it's a bookmark, nothing more or less, that I can access from any computer.

 

Even if you could see my id attached to it, that wouldn't really mean anything at all.

[+Mopar]

Why would you not want an owner to know that you are watching his cache? Unless you are planning a deep undercover covert operation I can't see any possible reason that a watcher wouldn't want his presence known. To me it would be flattering to know that someone was interested enough in my cache to "watch" it

 

Happy caching!

 

Logger

Go back and actually READ the 6-7 other threads that were linked for you above to find your answer.

[+logger&trail]

Thank you Mopar for your rather Blunt answer, FYI, I read the other posts but still feel it was a topic relevant for discussion. It would appear that most of the respondants of the other threads also would love to see this feature in one form or another, with a few others indifferent and a few against. The only plausible excuse for not having this feature that I could garner from previous posts was the idea that someone on the watchlist could be a plunderer of a cache. I don't think it is very likely since most caches seem to be plundered by chance. Those who feel their cache was plundered by another geocacher will likely point a finger with or without the help of knowing who is on the watchlist.

(In all likelihood, they also feel they are being tracked by aliens or the secret service. )

 

I just see more positives than negatives to an added feature such as this. One suggestion would be making it a paying members only feature. This would give "added value" to having a paid membership.

 

Happy Caching!

 

Logger

[Jeremy]

The consensus in the last poll was that most folks didn't care one way or the other, so we left the debate for another time.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

The consensus in the last poll was that most folks didn't care one way or the other, so we left the debate for another time.

How about letting just the owner see who is watching and see what the response is?

[+DirtRunner]

The consensus in the last poll was that most folks didn't care one way or the other, so we left the debate for another time.

How about letting just the owner see who is watching and see what the response is?

That is a great idea!

 

I like that compromise alot

DirtRunner.

[+flask]

if we make it a feature for paying members, how much do i have to pay to have people not know i'm watching?

[+Markwell]

How about letting just the owner see who is watching and see what the response is?

 

IIRC, That was actually part of Jeremy's poll. Prbblem is that with the change to the new forums, we lost Jeremy's questions and the answers of the masses.

 

BTW, Sax - nice markwelling there. It's going to start being called Saxophoning if you aren't careful.

Edited March 2, 2004 by Markwell

[+The Blue Quasar]

Since several people have brought up the idea that they can watch a cache with complete secrecy, then I pose this question...

 

Why should you be allowed to watch my cache? It's MY cache and Geocaching.com is hosting it.

 

You do not have my permission to watch my cache unless you ask me. Why should I allow you to? There is no reason to watch my cache unless you like my caches and therefore would have no reason to not tell me you are watching it.

 

View my cache as much as you like, but placing a 'proverbial web tap' on my cache page is a violation of my privacy.

 

Besides, maybe the people that are finding my caches don't like you monitoring their activities. That's all the more reason that I as the cache owner should protect THEIR privacy. They at least are telling me that they found my cache, what gives you the right to know that? You want to know, then visit my cache page and read the logs yourself.

 

Stop wasting bandwidth and bogging down the geocaching.com servers with your idle peeping Tom activities.

 

Not nice to have your options limited is it?

 

Just perspective from yet another different angle!

 

The Blue Quasar

Edited March 3, 2004 by The Blue Quasar

[+planetrobert]

Stop wasting bandwidth and bogging down the geocaching.com servers with your idle peeping Tom activities.

actually an email only when a person logs a cache would use LESS bandwidth that that same person checking your cache page often.

[+sbell111]

Since several people have brought up the idea that they can watch a cache with complete secrecy, then I pose this question...

 

Why should you be allowed to watch my cache? It's MY cache and Geocaching.com is hosting it.

 

You do not have my permission to watch my cache unless you ask me. Why should I allow you to? There is no reason to watch my cache unless you like my caches and therefore would have no reason to not tell me you are watching it.

 

View my cache as much as you like, but placing a 'proverbial web tap' on my cache page is a violation of my privacy.

 

Besides, maybe the people that are finding my caches don't like you monitoring their activities. That's all the more reason that I as the cache owner should protect THEIR privacy. They at least are telling me that they found my cache, what gives you the right to know that? You want to know, then visit my cache page and read the logs yourself.

 

Stop wasting bandwidth and bogging down the geocaching.com servers with your idle peeping Tom activities.

 

Not nice to have your options limited is it?

 

Just perspective from yet another different angle!

 

The Blue Quasar

Ummm, paranoid much?

 

Your statement 'There is no reason to watch my cache unless you like my caches...' got me thinking. I currently don't watch any caches because I try to cut down on emails. However, a few other reasons to watch a cache spring to mind.

 

Earlier today, I read a comment that one person watches caches just as a shortcut. Perhaps if he was planning a future trip to LA, he watches a cache in the area. He can quickly pull up that cache and search by nearest to get a feel for what's out there. His interest in that cache is not due to any qualities of the cache other than its location in LA.

 

If memory serves, Jeremy will give us the ability to exclude those caches on your watch list from a PQ (and to choose not to get emails re: watched caches. If this is correct, it would allow us to use watch lists as an 'ignore list'. Obviously, cachers using the watch lists in this manner would not be doing so because they like the caches.

 

What if I get bitten by a dog on a cache hunt? Maybe I would watch the cache to see if anyone else has the same experience. I wouldn't be watching because I liked the cache, I'd be doing so to add plaintiffs to a lawsuit.

[+The Blue Quasar]

Actually I don't agree with the post I put up, it is there to make a point.

 

I am flattered to have people watching my caches. I like to think they watch my caches because they LIKE my caches.

 

The point I was making is about privacy.

 

Those that watch caches have privacy of their lurking.

 

Those that post finds do not have that luxury.

 

As an owner of a cache, I should know who is watching my cache. I do not see harm in that. I would never think someone watching my cache is doing so for negative reasons.

 

So again, if you missed my point earlier, it is just if this is open for all to see, then ALL of it should be open for all to see.

 

The Blue Quasar

 

P.S. So in reply... not paranoid, just observant of perceptions.

Edited March 3, 2004 by The Blue Quasar

[+sbell111]

But even if you knew who was watching, you wouldn't know why they were watching. It could be flattering, it could not reflect on the cache (or the cache owner) at all, or it could be because they do not care for the cache (or the cache owner).

[+flask]

well, as for privacy, all of my caches are being watched by someone. i am mildly curious to know who.

 

if i don't want anybody to know i have found a particular cache, i don't log it. there is more than one cache i have not logged.

 

sometimes i watch a cache to monitor whether or not it really IS gone. or to monitor whether it's had it's FF.

 

or maybe i'm only watching the cache in order to track a particular cacher. this is sometimes necessary in order to track the release of clues for yet OTHER caches.

 

i watch most of the caches i've found and most of the TB's i've had simply because the item is interesting OR sooner or later interesting people show up there, OR and interesting log gets written.

 

MOST of the time i'm happy to have people know i'm watching. but sometimes i just need my stealth. if i told you why, i'd have to have you killed.

[+sbell111]

I know one person who watches caches he has found to see if his trade item is chosen. Using it in this manner has nothing to do with the cache or it's owner, it is merely a way of identifying whether one leaves popular items.

[+briansnat]

The consensus in the last poll was that most folks didn't care one way or the other, so we left the debate for another time.

 

I recall that poll saying that 88 percent of the voters thought this was a good idea in one form or another. Some said the info should be available to everyone and some thought only the cache owner, but only 12 percent were totally against it.

 

The poll also generated an unusually high level of interest, since it garnered 6 times the number of votes than the average poll.

 

Anyway, since I've been haunting these forums, it is probably one of the most frequently requested features, as all the links in Team GPSax's post attests to.

Edited March 3, 2004 by briansnat

[+Mopar]

Requested a lot or not, I have yet to see one reason to allow it other then "I'm curious", and I've seen tons of various reasons why it shouldn't be allowed.

I'm curious about tons of stuff. Just about everything, actually. Often gets me in trouble, LOL.

I'd also like to see lots of other things here, for no goods reason other then I'm curious.

I'd LOVE to see the IP address of each forum post, just so I could see who some of the sockpuppets really are, and who's goofing off at work.

I'd love to see the webserver stats for gc.com. It would interest me to see how much bandwidth gets burned up at various times days.

Do they serve any useful pupose? Nope. Neither does knowing who is on the watchlist for a cache. There's 100 different reasons people watch a certain cache, unless I take the time to ask each one to explain why, the fact that they ARE watching is useless. Besides, so those are the ones watching via the watch log? How about those watching via locally run apps that check for updates? I've run such programs to monitor the uptime of websites I've worked for, and to notify me when friends update personal pages. It would be simple for such a program to also check various cache pages and grab a copy when there are new logs.

What about PQs? Are you going to ask for a name each time someone runs a PQ that includes your cache? You don't need the watch button, just set up a PQ to grab all the caches in an area that have been found in the last week. Instant watch list.

As curious as I myself am to know whos watching my caches, I really can't see a legit use that offsets the various cons mentioned in all those other threads.

[+briansnat]

Requested a lot or not, I have yet to see one reason to allow it other then "I'm curious", and I've seen tons of various reasons why it shouldn't be allowed.

 

It could be a tool to help track down cache theives and pirates. I'm sure a lot of them watch a cache after they've done their deed to see the reaction. Are they that stupid to do so if people knew who was watching? Probably. There are a lot of pretty stupid people out there. Witness the guy who created a sock puppet account and forgot to log off and posted as the sock puppet using his regular account. Yep, a lot of stupid people out there!

 

Another reason to allow it. Since so many people seem to want the feature, it also would make a nice subscribers bennie that might attract new paying members.

[+bons]

It could be a tool to help track down cache theives and pirates. I'm sure a lot of them watch a cache after they've done their deed to see the reaction.

Up until now I've been on the fence, but you just changed my vote to "Don't let the anyone else see the watchers".

 

There are enough "stupid people" (as you call them) that the last thing I want is one of them playing armchair detective and accuse me of being subigo in the forums just because I'm watching some cache with a couple DNFs on it. If someone wants to do that sort of research, the approvers can do it and handle it in an appropriate manner.

[+The Blue Quasar]

I don't think that the "pirates of the cacheribbean" idea is a good enough justification to allow everyone or the owner to see who is watch a cache.

 

That reason, like many have said, would just lead to abuse and tension.

 

I do however think that "I'm curious" is a valid reason, as this is the only motivation for watching a cache in the first place. "I'm curious who will be the first finder", "I'm curious if so-an-so has found it", "I'm curious if anything has happend since I went to it", "I'm curious if it has been changed at all"

 

Basically any reason for watching a cache can be justified under the "I'm curious" banner. The same should apply to the watch list itself.

 

Having the "x number of people are watching this cache" is inviting that curiousity, and if people are afraid of getting emails because they are watching it Groundspeak already has policy in place to deal with abuse.

 

I took the time to read all of the recommended forum posts, and I have yet to find a solid reason to not allow the watch list to be public and also few reasons to have it available. Hiding your actions will always garner the response of "Why don't you want us to know you watching a cache?" That's just human nature to be suspicious.

 

It's also human nature to be curious, especially when it comes to people watching you.

 

I don't really care if they ever implement the idea of allowing cache owners to see who is watching their cache, or everyone to see the list. I would like to see it, but my world won't end if they don't add it in.

 

My world is about hiding and seeking caches, the rest is bonus footage!

 

The Blue Quasar

 

http://66.207.113.44/oga/

[+Vader]

I was just going to make a new post about this subject when I did a search and came across this thread. I suppose I should pat my self on the back and be glad that I won’t be getting flamed for starting up an old subject.

 

Nothing like missing the bandwagon, but I just thought what a cool idea it would be, to be able to tell who is on your watch list. As a paying member I would like to see it added to the benefits that premium members receive........

 

[+fröstel]

I tried to read through most of the threads about this topic and appologize if the following suggestion has been mentioned before. I think it should be a good compromise satisfying both, opponents and supporters of this idea.

 

As far I can figure out, many people (including me) are afraid about a violation of their privacy when the owner can see their identity.

For me on the other handside it wouldn't be very interesting actually to see the watchers name. Far more interesting would be the information (ratio) how many finders (/DNFs) are watching my caches. So we're not speaking about names, just anonymous statistics.

Negecting the users that by default watch all caches they found this is usually sort of benchmark for the cachequality, when there many finders watching it.

 

What do you think about this? In my opinion it's going to be a fair solution to this longdiscussed issue.

Edited March 14, 2005 by fröstel

[+Prime Suspect]

It could be a tool to help track down cache theives and pirates.  I'm sure a lot of them watch a cache after they've done their deed to see the reaction. Are they that stupid to do so if people knew who was watching?  Probably. There are a lot of pretty stupid people out there. Witness the guy who created a sock puppet account and forgot to log off and posted as the sock puppet using his regular account. Yep, a lot of stupid people out there!

 

Another reason to allow it. Since so many people seem to  want the feature, it also would make a nice subscribers bennie that might attract new paying members.

All that does is provide a list of innocent people for some angry person to point his finger at, when his cache is vandalized. Sounds like a good reason not to reveal who's on a watchlist.

 

Besides, there are numerous ways to keep tabs on a cache without the owner knowing that anyone is watching it. No one knows if someone else has their cache in a PQ. No one knows if someone has their cache on a bookmark list with email notification turned on. I can set an option in my browser (Mozilla) to automatically notify me whenever a cache page has changed. I can set that up against the log-only page, and be informed whenever someone posts a new log (and I can read those logs without accessing the cache page).

 

If someone thinks having information about who's watching their cache will help them track down a cache vandal, they're living in a dream world. There are just too many ways to work around it.

Edited March 16, 2005 by Prime Suspect

[+Bull Moose]

As far I can figure out, many people (including me) are afraid about a violation of their privacy when the owner can see their identity.

 

I never got that argument. "Frostel is watching your cache" tells me as much as "Frostel posted a new post on a thread you subscribe to."

 

Either way, I have no idea who you are other than what is in your profile which can be as little or as much as you want.

Edited March 16, 2005 by Bull Moose

[+Shop99er]

I would be interested to know who's watching my caches.

 

This is a feature that should only be avaiable to cache owners.

[+The Blue Quasar]

Not that this thread will have any affect on Policy at Geocaching/Groundspeak but I must have a strange view of things.

 

I've said it before.... knowing who is watching a cache is purely a 'curiosity' thing.

 

First off, this Privacy ideal is being used differently by different people. I don't see at all how someone can feel that their privacy is being violated by listing their Alias as a Watcher of a Cache. When you post a new cache all of your Geocaching.com info is there for all to see. When you log a find on a cache all of your Geocaching.com info is there for all to see. Why would watching a cache be any different?

 

As a cache owner, I can't believe that someone on my watch list would be responsible for destroying my cache. This is faulty logic to think they would be. If someone was going to deliberately destroy my cache they are going to. They don't need to be on a watchlist to do it, and if they wanted to see the resulting fallout all they would have to do is visit the webpage to read it.

 

Now then, here is a reason to ALLOW the owner to see a list of those that are watching caches. Suppose I am considering placing a new cache, and there is a list of people watching certain caches of mine, and not others. If I use all this data I can see what ones are enjoyed by which people and tailor my future hides to attract mor people. I realize that the number of people watching each one kinda tells me which one are good and which ones are not so good.

 

As I type this pointless reply I cannot think of a good reason to Allow people to see who is on the watch list beyond a simple curiosity. And again I cannot think of a reason to Prevent people seeing who is on a watch list, as this privacy ideal is silly at best.

 

To me, the best solution is the same method that ICQ and MSN use.... "This Geocacher 'Alias of cacher here' would like to watch your cache GCxxxx - 'Name of cache here'. Allow/Decline?"

 

This naturally could be altered in your profile as "Always Permit, Ask Me First, Always Decline" as a global setting for all of an owner's caches.

 

Back to the Privacy statement that people keep making..... "Why are you trying to hide that you are watching my cache?" I don't think that anyone is up to no good by watching it. And even if they are, how would I ever prove it?

 

The Blue Quasar

[Keystone]

Regarding Privacy and Watchlists,

 

As a volunteer for Groundspeak, I get involved in a lot of local problems with people stealing or vandalizing caches, and I hear of the similar problems that the other volunteers are dealing with, and asking for advice about. There are many "cache maggot" situations that never, ever find their way into the forums.

 

I can say that in the vast majority of these cache maggot cases, the following two things happen:

 

1. I am asked to find out for the cache owner who is watching their cache.

2. The cache owner announces their intention to make the cache "members only" so that they can use the audit list feature and see who has viewed the cache page.

 

These are wishes by an understandably upset cache owner, who mistakenly believes that they'll capture the cache maggot with that information in hand. Instead, I counsel them that it could just lead to false accusations and bad feelings.

 

Prime Suspect's post summarizes the ways that a cache maggot can get the info. about a cache without ever visiting the page. But the vast majority of geocachers will never read Prime's post. Volunteers like me repeat the explanation each time an owner of a stolen cache writes to one of us.

[+the hermit crabs]

Suppose I am considering placing a new cache, and there is a list of people watching certain caches of mine, and not others. If I use all this data I can see what ones are enjoyed by which people and tailor my future hides to attract mor people. I realize that the number of people watching each one kinda tells me which one are good and which ones are not so good.

I don't think that the number of watchers necessarily tells you whether a cache is good or not. Some people watch caches that their travel bugs are in, in order to not miss any logs that say "the bug appears to be missing". Some people watch caches that they DNF'd on, just to see if they've been found since then.

 

The caches on our watchlist do not include our favorite ones. They do include some that we think we'd like to do but haven't gotten around to yet, and some where we have done some signifcant maintenance (up to replacing the complete cache container & all contents), just so we can keep an eye on them.

 

I think you could tell more by the log contents whether a cache is a good one or not.

[+Markwell]

I use my bookmark notification for my favorite caches. My watchlist is for the caches within 10 miles of home to see who's coming through the area finding caches. Watchlist: not just for favorites anymore.