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shunra

Racist Slurs In Cache Descriptions

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I just noticed a cache near my former hometown, which had the following phrase in its description:

 

We took a chance with this cache site. There are signs of <ethnic specification> in the area. Therefore we kept the cache contents to a minimum.

 

I posted a 'This cache should be archived' log, with in it a request to change the text to 'geomuggles' or whatever, without ethnic specifications. A few hours later, there was actually a log from someone, who added insult to injury by claiming, among other things:

 

... because the local <ethnic specification> communities steal cars ...

 

Can one of the admins please comment on GC policies about this? :mad:

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I believe it's this one.

 

Regardless of how you or anyone else feels, (and I ain't jumping into this one), please move this thread to another forum - either geocaching topics or the appropriate regional forum. The only thing I question is if there's a high chance of ANYONE stealing it, be it Bedouins, Gypsies, Southern Baptists, Democrats, Martians, whoever - maybe it's not such a good place to put one in the first place.

Edited by pater47

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I'm sorry, but I have to agree with the person who placed the cache for the exact same reason many people felt the visitors comments in http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=60611 should have been left in.

 

This is an accurate discription of the cache location by the person who placed the cache. It would be no different from me posting "This area is freqented by gangs/homeless/vampires/hooters girls after sunset so please think twice before night caching.

 

Now if the description had had the term "whitebread honky cracker" instead of the politically correct term "redneck", I could see where you might have been offended, but as it is, it's an accurate description, even if it happens to be a description you don't like.

 

As far as that second log being there, let's be honest. That log is there because of the debate current going on inside of the listing. It was a response to accusations by someone no longer living in the area. Odd how that part of the situation wasn't mentioned in the original post.

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This is an accurate discription of the cache location by the person who placed the cache. It would be no different from me posting "This area is freqented by gangs/homeless/vampires/hooters girls after sunset so please think twice before night caching.

 

Could you please be more specific on WHICH night the Hooters Girls are there? :mad:

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As far as that second log being there, let's be honest. That log is there because of the debate current going on inside of the listing. It was a response to accusations by someone no longer living in the area. Odd how that part of the situation wasn't mentioned in the original post.

Original post being in the forums or on the cache page?

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Not being from the area makes it hard to tell what is meant by the use of the term Beduins. I have to take it at facevalue that those people depend on finding items where they can to make a living. So it would put a cache at risk of being plundered. Also maybe if you are not a Beduin and are in that area that is something you may want to know. From what I read every little group is always after some other group.

 

It is a part of the world that has many problems and differences in culture, many of which are are likely not to be understood by those of us outside the area.

 

But I must say that I had no idea the term Redneck was PC. I would take offense to that term. But somehow it seems ok to offend some groups of people today. It might be OK in your mind to use that word because you hear David Allen Coe sing about his long hair covering up his red neck. But I can only think of how fast I would be banned if I used certain terms, even though a rap group calls itself NWA and a "civil rights" group calls itself NAACP.

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Original post being in the forums or on the cache page?
Pick one. The original post doesn't seem to actually explain the situation very well. It only seems to tell the half of the story the poster wanted heard. The link clears up a lot of the situation. Personally, I'd rather my $3 a month went towards a single line of PQ code than admin involvement in a PC debate involving two people on completely different continents.
I had no idea the term Redneck was PC.
In 10 years I've never seen a single racial slur for whites banned on an online forum, be it usnet news or modern forums. So it must be acceptable.
Could you please be more specific on WHICH night the Hooters Girls are there?
Thursdays. Trust me, being surrounded by drunk hooters girls in a mood for a little "payback" isn't something you want to do a seventh time.

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It's a local issue. If there was a local group to decide it. For all we know it was already covered when the cache was approved.

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In 10 years I've never seen a single racial slur for whites banned on an online forum, be it usnet news or modern forums. So it must be acceptable.

And that was my point. Gotta love those double standards.

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Original post being in the forums or on the cache page?
Pick one. The original post doesn't seem to actually explain the situation very well. It only seems to tell the half of the story the poster wanted heard. The link clears up a lot of the situation. Personally, I'd rather my $3 a month went towards a single line of PQ code than admin involvement in a PC debate involving two people on completely different continents.

The orginal forum post says it was "near my former hometown", and explained the situation without reusing the word (which makes sense if they find it offensive...), or directly naming the cache/cacher, then asked about gc.com policy. It seems like direcly naming the cacher may have been a violation of the gc.com forum guidelines.

 

The SBA on the cache that appears the be the one of question doesn't say Shunra

is living far away, but why would it? An SBA was posted and the reason for such a log was given. If theres a problem with a cache that needs to be addressed, then anyone from anywhere should post so it can be looked into.

 

Hmm... getting to vote for what Jeremy&Co. are to work on, interesting idea.

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I don't believe its a racial or a slur by any means. I lived in the Israel for 4 years and bedouins is the term by which they decribe themselves. They are not Jews, Israelis or Arabs, they are Beduoins. Of course its not completely true, because their ancestry is arabic and they have lived in Israel for centuries so they are also Israelis too.

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I don't believe its a racial or a slur by any means. I lived in the Israel for 4 years and bedouins is the term by which they decribe themselves. They are not Jews, Israelis or Arabs, they are Beduoins. Of course its not completely true, because their ancestry is arabic and they have lived in Israel for centuries so they are also Israelis too.

The question is not whether 'Bedouin' itself is a racial slur. Of course it isn't.

 

But stating that they, and particularly they, would steal caches, as opposed to other geomuggles, is a racist statement which I believe to be against the spirit, if not the explicit guidelines, of Geocaching.

 

Being *very* familiar with the situation around my hometown, themain danger to caches would be Israeli authorities, who would explode every cache stumbled upon for fear of being a bomb.

 

But that's not the issue either. The issueis that GC should not tolerate on its site a statement which claims that a specific ethnic group is more likely to plunder a cache than another. Period.

 

I apologize if this is the wrong forum - I was deliberating between this anf general. I did not want to trigger a discussion, I merely wanted to know the position of the Admins about this matters.

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Being *very* familiar with the situation around my hometown, themain danger to caches would be Israeli authorities, who would explode every cache stumbled upon for fear of being a bomb.

 

But that's not the issue either. The issueis that GC should not tolerate on its site a statement which claims that a specific ethnic group is more likely to plunder a cache than another. Period.

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, you think TPTB should moderate your last post for it's ethnic accusations? Do you think they should warn you as well, or simply edit your post to remove the offending implications?

 

How should you or anyone else be treated for trying to explain the situation clearly and honestly?

Edited by bons

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But stating that they, and particularly they, would steal caches, as opposed to other geomuggles, is a racist statement which I believe to be against the spirit, if not the explicit guidelines, of Geocaching.

You're right. If someone said that any particular group would be more likely to steal a cache than any other, then that person is making a bold generalization.

 

This cache page didn't say that. It simply said that a particular group is nearby, so be careful not to be seen.

 

What if I placed a cache near a school and warned people to be careful so that students don't see you?

 

Or what if my cache was near a lake, and I cautioned against fishermen?

 

I don't believe the original cache description had any problems.

 

The subsequent discussion in the logs went a little to the side, though.

 

I think bons said it just right:

The original post doesn't seem to actually explain the situation very well. It only seems to tell the half of the story the poster wanted heard. The link clears up a lot of the situation. Personally, I'd rather my $3 a month went towards a single line of PQ code than admin involvement in a PC debate involving two people on completely different continents.

 

Not an issue to fret over, in my mind.

 

Jamie

Edited by Jamie Z

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Both when moderating the forums and when reviewing new cache submissions, I am on the lookout for obvious racial and ethnic slurs. We regularly ask cache owners to edit their cache pages or cache titles. Last month I deleted a forum post containing a racial term that most people would find offensive.

 

The issue here is whether the reference to the particular group is an obvious racial or ethnic slur. To one person, it does seem to be. Beyond that, not having any familiarity with the geographic region, I won't touch this issue with a ten foot pole. Errr, make that a ten foot person of proud Eastern European heritage.

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I agree with KA here. It was not used as an ethnic slur, and no dictionary I checked labeled it as an ethnic slur. I did however correct the mispelling of said word in the cache description. :unsure:

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Both when moderating the forums and when reviewing new cache submissions, I am on the lookout for obvious racial and ethnic slurs. We regularly ask cache owners to edit their cache pages or cache titles. Last month I deleted a forum post containing a racial term that most people would find offensive.

 

The issue here is whether the reference to the particular group is an obvious racial or ethnic slur. To one person, it does seem to be. Beyond that, not having any familiarity with the geographic region, I won't touch this issue with a ten foot pole. Errr, make that a ten foot person of proud Eastern European heritage.

Thank you for your input, KA.

 

Would you equally approve of - say - a cache in Brooklyn, saying:

 

We took a chance with this cache site. There are signs of Jews in the area. Therefore we kept the cache contents to a minimum.

 

If you would, than that would be a statement about Geocaching policy that would surprise me.

 

If you wouldn't, I'd appreciate to know the difference.

 

I, for one, am personally offended by the statement in the cache description. Not by the term 'Bedouin', but that by the implication that they are thieves. Is it so difficult to ask the cache owner to comply with minimum ethical standards?

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Brooklyn cache:

We took a chance with this cache site. There are signs of Jews in the area. Therefore we kept the cache contents to a minimum.

What was the hint? The wrappers from all the gelt this time of year? Or the realization that all the chess players went home before sunset last Friday.

 

To me, an appropriate anology would be :

We took a chance with this cache site. There are signs of hobos in the area. Therefore we kept the cache contents to a minimum.
Now to the best of my knowledge, hobos aren't theives. They're nomadic workers as far as I'm concerned, and they lead a different sort of lifestyle. However if I was placing a cache in an area that might be a hobo camp at night, I think fellow cachers should know about it. Edited by bons

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Jeez people, grow some thicker skin. Sometimes ya just gotta call a spade a spade. Have the < local ethnic slurs> complained about this yet? If they haven't, you shouldn't either. MYOB

 

Bender

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Would you equally approve of - say - a cache in Brooklyn, saying:

 

Ok, I'll jump into this in here.

 

There is a bit difference. Your analogy doesn't work. The place it was put is otherwise uninhabited. It's the the Arava desert. So as others have indicated, to say that there is a nomadic camp nearby and it's likely they might come accross it is highly informative. Referring to Beduim specifically provides two additional pieces of information:

1) it's a nomadic camp and might not be there, so don't necesarily use it as a reference

2) it is people that the authorities to a large degree let live their own lives without huge interference in day-to-day (attempts to get them to move to more formal settlements aside), esp as this regard to theft

 

My analogy is much more appropriate..."I put a cache in Times Square. There are New Yorkers living nearby."

 

As for the local background for those around, there are no problems between Beduins and Jews. As someone else posted, they are of Arabic descent but do not group themselves as Arabs. They live their own lives as Israeli citizens and really don't take a part in the regional conflict.

 

There was NO racial slur in that statement, and if it helps, I'd be more than happy to talk to some local beduim I know.

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Yes, indeed, claiming about a Time Square cache:

 

We took a chance with this cache site. There are signs of New Yorkers in the area. Therefore we kept the cache contents to a minimum.

 

might upset some New Yorkers, and rightly so, as this clearly would imply that they are more of a hazard than other geomuggles. The point is however not how THEY would react, but that nobody would ever think of writing such an offensive thing in a cache description.

 

Or can anyone find me a reference to any reference to a local population by an ethnic name or a toponym, in a cache description, in an equally derogatory sentence?

 

Saying such a thing out of a certain mindset is in a way understandable, but trying to justify it is reprehensible. And unbelieveable.

 

And to Bender: I'd like to say that I *am* from there, and I *am* offended. But this shouldn't be about me, but about allowing such blanket implications.

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This is a riot. I've heard people say that muggles is a derogatory term. Geomuggles isn't any "better". You are trading one term you find offensive for another that has been mentioned as offensive to others.

 

If the the term indicates a specific culture with a generally recognized way of life and such information is relavant to the area and important for the person seeking the cache then it's valid.

 

Not being local I don't have that answer. But so far people familair with the region seem to be weighing in on the side that it's a non issue. That as used it's valid.

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I'm gonna have to go along with the general concensus on this one: It's a non-issue.

 

The way it is written is absolutely no different that saying there are a group of schoolchildren nearby that might steal the contents if they find it. It doesn't matter what term is used to fill that sentence. It is not racist. It is not derogatory. It is a statement of fact that is intended to warn cachers of the possible dangers there.

 

And that's all I got to say about that. :unsure:

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I don't believe its a racial or a slur by any means.  I lived in the Israel for  4 years and bedouins is the term by which they decribe themselves.  They are not Jews, Israelis or Arabs, they are Beduoins.  Of course its not completely true, because their ancestry is arabic and they have lived in Israel for centuries so they are also Israelis too.

The question is not whether 'Bedouin' itself is a racial slur. Of course it isn't.

 

But stating that they, and particularly they, would steal caches, as opposed to other geomuggles, is a racist statement which I believe to be against the spirit, if not the explicit guidelines, of Geocaching.

 

Being *very* familiar with the situation around my hometown, themain danger to caches would be Israeli authorities, who would explode every cache stumbled upon for fear of being a bomb.

 

But that's not the issue either. The issueis that GC should not tolerate on its site a statement which claims that a specific ethnic group is more likely to plunder a cache than another. Period.

 

I apologize if this is the wrong forum - I was deliberating between this anf general. I did not want to trigger a discussion, I merely wanted to know the position of the Admins about this matters.

I was not implying that the logs about stealing were correct and I can understand why you felt that was inappropriate.

 

I agree that the Israeli Army would not give it a 2nd thought before blowing it up... can you blame them??

 

I think that some of the forum members may not understand the complexities of the relationships between the different groups of the region. It is something that you have to experience to understand, so allow them a little slack with some of their comments.

 

I do think that your comparisions to the Brooklyn Jews or to New Yorkers is stretching the comparison a bit. I would think any muggle would be likely to plunder a cache and I would never point out a single group as being more untrustworthy than another.

 

As for a Bedouin responding to this that he/she is insulted is about as likely as seeing an Amish person reply. Most (not all) prefer the old ways and do not utilize technology as does western civilization.

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My apologies: I'm bored. I have a pounding headache. And my son is too sick to go geocaching with me.

 

So I figured I'd find some other caches with similar "problems" and try to see if any of them bothered me. Then I figured I'd share the winner.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=52370

"Make sure you use caution as it is on school grounds."

"Probably won't last long as soon as the kids find it"

 

I'll be danged if I can tell the difference. Anyone here offended?

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My apologies: I'm bored. I have a pounding headache. And my son is too sick to go geocaching with me.

 

So I figured I'd find some other caches with similar "problems" and try to see if any of them bothered me. Then I figured I'd share the winner.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=52370

"Make sure you use caution as it is on school grounds."

"Probably won't last long as soon as the kids find it"

 

I'll be danged if I can tell the difference. Anyone here offended?

My point exactly. Oh, and BTW, it looks as if the last person there logged it as "Found" when they really didn't. Did you notice that?

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The only thing I saw in appropriate with the cache page was the person who started a racial debate via archive notices in the logs of the cache itself. Despite a specific racial group identified. The cacher who responded in kind via cache notes was equally at fault for acting inappropriately.

 

Homeless people be identified as an individual social class if you really look at it from an overall perspective. Some choose to live that 'nomadic' life, while others are forced into it due to unfortunate circumstances. Identifying the homeless population as potential cache finders would be no different than stating that these desert nomads might discover the cache.

 

Mountains....mole hills....

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My point exactly.  Oh, and BTW, it looks as if the last person there logged it as "Found" when they really didn't.  Did you notice that?

Yeah. But according to the schedule, that witch hunt isn't scheduled to start until Sunday. From the previews it looks like it's only expected to take up 3 pages (as well as about 30 e-mails to the admin reporting that person and demanding action).

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My point exactly.  Oh, and BTW, it looks as if the last person there logged it as "Found" when they really didn't.  Did you notice that?

Yeah. But according to the schedule, that witch hunt isn't scheduled to start until Sunday. From the previews it looks like it's only expected to take up 3 pages (as well as about 30 e-mails to the admin reporting that person and demanding action).

Darest I ask who will be leading the discussion? :unsure:

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I was not implying that the logs about stealing were correct and I can understand why you felt that was inappropriate.

 

Then you agree to the essence of my point.

 

I agree that the Israeli Army would not give it a 2nd thought before blowing it up... can you blame them??

 

Not at all!

 

I think that some of the forum members may not understand the complexities of the relationships between the different groups of the region. It is something that you have to experience to understand, so allow them a little slack with some of their comments.

 

I give most forum members lots of slack. Most of them seem to think that it's a non-issue. But I am from there, I do understand the complexities, and I think it's unacceptable. I didn't ask for input from forum members, I asked for input from the Admins. Perhaps this was the wrong way of doing so. But even so, instead of just saying that it's a non-issue, why not ask the cache owner to remove the implication about Bedouins behing thieves?

 

I do think that your comparisions to the Brooklyn Jews or to New Yorkers is stretching the comparison a bit.

 

I don't think so. Why?

 

I would think any muggle would be likely to plunder a cache and I would never point out a single group as being more untrustworthy than another.

 

That's exactly my point. I would never do it either, and I would be very disappointed if the Admins would allow it.

 

As for a Bedouin responding to this that he/she is insulted is about as likely as seeing an Amish person reply. Most (not all) prefer the old ways and do not utilize technology as does western civilization.

 

You have no idea. Most bedouins are dirt poor and live in slums, being forbidden to roam (this is true almost everywhere in the Middle East). The richer ones, however, are just as modern and technology-adept as you or I are. That, however, is not the issue here.

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Not being local I don't have that answer. But so far people familair with the region seem to be weighing in on the side that it's a non issue. That as used it's valid.

So far, only people not familiar with the region claim it's a non-issue.

 

So far, only two people from the region have spoken up:

One guy actively defending the notion that Bedouins would be thieves and that the comment would actually have added value, and myself, saying that it is not true, and not acceptible.

 

So far, we locals cannot agree :unsure:

 

And therefore, I am asking that the Admins impose objective standards, which will apply to everyone.

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I didn't ask for input from forum members, I asked for input from the Admins. Perhaps this was the wrong way of doing so.

[

If you didn't want input from forum members, then, yes, this is the wrong place to go for answers. You should have sent the question directly to gc.com and avoided all this hullabaloo on the subject. If that's your feeling, then you are free to close the thread.

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And therefore, I am asking that the Admins impose objective standards, which will apply to everyone.

I looked up the word on dictionary.com and nowhere in any of the definitions did it say that this is a racial slur or derogatory word. For comparison I looked up a certain 6 letter word starting with N, and found just about every definition said it is either disparaging or vulgar.

 

That's about as objective as we can be when faced with areas and terminology that we are unfamiliar with. Beyond that, we could ask for opinions of the locals. Well, we have two here, and they don't agree.

 

We're certainly not going to act in this case on the complaint of one person, but if other locals complain, then perhaps we will.

 

In reality, I feel its best to leave to the discretion of the cache owner.

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I looked up the word on dictionary.com and nowhere in any of the definitions did it say that this is a racial slur or derogatory word. For comparison I looked up a certain 6 letter word starting with N, and found just about every definition said it is either disparaging or vulgar.

I too looked up the term, using both google and Merriam-Webster.com. Neither suggested it as an offensive term, though they did for every other "ethnic slur" I ran through them.

 

Also, from what little research I did, it seems the term describes a culture or lifestyle as much (if not more) as it does a race; thus, while some may feel it has a derogatory connotation, I certainly wouldn't label it "racist".

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Correct. I think the title of this thread was a poor choice of words. From all I can gather through google searches, it would be the same as calling homeless people, to use someone else's previous example, a "race".

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So far, only people not familiar with the region claim it's a non-issue.

 

So far, only two people from the region have spoken up:

One guy actively defending the notion that Bedouins would be thieves and that the comment would actually have added value, and myself, saying that it is not true, and not acceptible.

 

So far, we locals cannot agree  :unsure:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're no longer a local are you? As I understand it, you don't live there anymore. According to your page you seem to be a resident of Port Townsend, Washington, at least for now. Therefore all the locals who have particpated in this thread speak with one voice, at least as far as I can tell.

Edited by bons

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I don't think the word bedouin is what is being objected to in this case but rather the context in which it is used. Imagine using 'black' in place of bedouin and the cache being in one of the southern US states and I think it becomes a little clearer as to what might be the problem (I mean no offense, just making a point). The other parralels that were being drawn, 'New Yorkers', 'kids' etc. are not normally as divisive, ie: any race, creed et al can be from New York or be/have kids. All that being said, MAYBE he (the cache hider) did just want to let anyone know that tho it is seemeingly in a place far from any people that bedouins being nomadic might occasionally be there and they did not want to take a more than a normal chance on it being found and disturbed. It will be interesting to hear what the hider has to say and most likely would be best to wait to take any action til they are heard from, hopefully someone from GC.com has already tried to contact them.

The phrasing on the cache page could have been better in any case. The person responding on the page to the complaints could have used more tact too I think.

If the person responding IS the hider I think it would be apparent that the comment is disparaging and does not belong here.

Edited by Corp Of Discovery

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And yet not one person has complained about my implication that Jews are litterbugs. Or my "whitebread honky cracker" comment.

 

And while "kids" isn't racism, it is ageism and therefore discrimination.

 

Even the original poster hasn't complained about these forms of discrimination...

Edited by bons

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And yet not one person has complained about my implication that Jews are litterbugs. Or my "whitebread honky cracker" comment.

 

And while "kids" isn't racism, it is ageism and therefore discrimination.

 

Even the original poster hasn't complained about these forms of discrimination...

Being that you were using them in a discussion maybe nobody thought you were serious, if you were consider this a complaint. Ageism as your link points out is , according to one, 'Discrimination based on age, especially prejudice against the elderly' and the other says 'discrimination against middle-aged and elderly people' so it does NOT normally apply to 'kids', which is non age specific. An example being that a 100 year old person has kids, those kids could very well be 80 years old, of course a 20 year old can have kids also and they would be normally considered young so as you can see 'kids' is not age specific.

Edited by Corp Of Discovery

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Where is Alan2 when you need him? You know who I'm talking about:

 

Back in the Arava Desert with Ranger Rick and Ranger Jim. Shhh, let’s listen in…

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My mother was born and raised in Israel, and my 2 sisters and grandmother still live there. "Bedouin" is not a racial slur. When I first read your post, i thought you were going to say that, "There are sings of ni***rs in the area." I almost agreed with your request to archive post.

Please, the world is already more "politically correct" than it needs to be. Everyone sues everyone else for "descrimination". At least it didnt say "camel jockeys" or something of the sort. If you dont like the cache page, than dont visit the cache. Maybe if you keep screaming "RACISM!" everyone will jump on your wagon, and boycott the cache, but i dont think that is going to happen. So, please let everyone else enjoy another wonderful adventure of finding another cache, and dont cause GC.com to make anymore rules than they already have (no offense). :unsure:

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Removed post on the grounds that I can say absolutely nothing productive at this point.

Edited by bons

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It's surprising how often I need to say that I do not object to the term 'Bedouins', and that I do not find the term offensive as such, but the implication that they would be more inclined than others to pillage a cache.

 

Labelling normal words as slurs and replacing them by other normals words would indeed be PC. But I am probably as anti-PC as you can get; I don't even have a problem with the N-word. But when you make a blanket implication about a population group like in this cache description, than that is objectionable.

 

I hope I'm getting the point accross, this time. I apologize for not having being more eloquent before.

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Back in the Negev Desert with Ranger Moshe and Ranger Ahmed…Shhh, let’s listen in…

 

“Moshe. Where’s your GPS. Mine’s on the fritz, and I can’t do my prayers until I can figure our where to face Mecca.”

 

“Prayers, schmayers, you’d think you know where Mecca is by now. What kind of a desert ranger are you, for muhammedsake.”

 

“Moshe, you shouldn’t take God’s name in vain, for chrissakes. Anyway your namesake Moses was lost in the desert for 40 years trying to find his way out leading those poor ex-slaves around in circles! You should talk! If Moses had taken some Bedouin along, he would have entered the Promised Land years earlier. Bedouins could find their way through a three-day sandstorm. Many think they’re the forebears of the Fugawi tribe of Canada.”

 

“Hmm. I’ll have to think about that. But anyway, I don’t trust them. A lot of people think they like to take things.”

 

“Well, Moshe, that’s just not true. Bedouins are absolutely trustworthy. It’s just that when they find things in the desert, they assume someone has lost it. I mean, after all, who would leave a container with little trinkets in the middle of the desert? Even muggles would walk off with it. On the other hand, I can’t figure out what a Bedouin with do with a McToy. But the ammo box sure could come in handy considering what’s been going on around here.”

 

“Well, let’s not go there. Here, take my GPS. Just recalibrate the compass. I’d hate for God to get angry with you because you faced the wrong way!”

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...but the implication that they would be more inclined than others to pillage a cache....

Are they as a group more inclined to steal a cache or are they not? Is the cache because of it's location a higher risk cache or not?

 

I can tell you for a fact that school children are more inclinde to steal the cache than the average adult. At least one kid would steal it just to spite the good ones who would leave it.

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Removed post on the grounds that I can say absolutely nothing productive at this point.

You must be a backward snob. :unsure:

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It's surprising how often I need to say that I do not object to the term 'Bedouins', and that I do not find the term offensive as such, but the implication that they would be more inclined than others to pillage a cache.

But again...the poster didn't say that Bedouins wandering around in that area might steal it while others might not. He said there are Bedouins LIVING in the area.

 

Therefore all the analogies to sub-groups within populations inside a city are incorrect. There are no others living nearby.

 

So let's get down to pure statistics.

 

If population A lives within 500m of the cache, and population B lives 150km from the cache, even if population B is 10x the size of population A, the chances of B even being in the area is remote...then add to that the chances of finding it...then add to that the chances of stealing it. Because keep in mind that B would be there for some kind of activity: hiking, jeep trip, etc and wouldn't be kicking over every rock as one might in their own backyard.

 

Now we get back to A. This is their backyard. So they probably will statistically kick over many more rocks than B in a much shorter time.

 

So can we get off this already and agree that just as schoolchildren stand a greater chance of stealing a cache in a playground so does a Bedouin community when you bury it in their backyard??

 

And that is all without any subjective local knowledge of the area and the population itself.

 

This is becoming unbelievable.

 

If the cache page said "There is a community living nearby" I'd pull out my map and start looking for a marked town. If the page said "There is a Bedouin community living nearby." I will not look for a town, I'll go there and look for some tents or signs of tents and will see that I might be in the right area.

 

So from all perspectives, I *STILL* don't see a problem and still maintain this contributes.

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Back in the Negev Desert with Ranger Moshe and Ranger Ahmed…Shhh, let’s listen in…

 

“Moshe. Where’s your GPS. Mine’s on the fritz, and I can’t do my prayers until I can figure our where to face Mecca.”

 

“Prayers, schmayers, you’d think you know where Mecca is by now. What kind of a desert ranger are you, for muhammedsake.”

 

“Moshe, you shouldn’t take God’s name in vain, for chrissakes. Anyway your namesake Moses was lost in the desert for 40 years trying to find his way out leading those poor ex-slaves around in circles! You should talk! If Moses had taken some Bedouin along, he would have entered the Promised Land years earlier. Bedouins could find their way through a three-day sandstorm. Many think they’re the forebears of the Fugawi tribe of Canada.”

 

“Hmm. I’ll have to think about that. But anyway, I don’t trust them. A lot of people think they like to take things.”

 

“Well, Moshe, that’s just not true. Bedouins are absolutely trustworthy. It’s just that when they find things in the desert, they assume someone has lost it. I mean, after all, who would leave a container with little trinkets in the middle of the desert? Even muggles would walk off with it. On the other hand, I can’t figure out what a Bedouin with do with a McToy. But the ammo box sure could come in handy considering what’s been going on around here.”

 

“Well, let’s not go there. Here, take my GPS. Just recalibrate the compass. I’d hate for God to get angry with you because you faced the wrong way!”

ROTFLMAO! Seriously!! :o Oy!

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