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The Rise Of Lame Micros

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In the beginning there was the traditional cache. The traditional cache was well hidden in a place where nobody cared or dared to go without a GPS and rarely was it found except by the people who were looking for it.


TPTB saw the traditional cache and saw that it was good. They called it a geocache and made for it a website that they called geocaching.com.


Lo and behold there came a day when people from the city wanted variations of the game and wanted to hide the geocache where it could not hide for long from the evil geomuggles that inhabited this land. TPTB made a new cache type and called it virtual.


It came to pass that the people of the city and others who were too lazy or too busy to hide a traditional cache would hide only the virtual and the virtuals spread quickly throughout the land. It seemed for a time that every historical marker, fire hydrant, and utility pole might become a virtual cache and that the traditional caches would be lost in the noise.


TPTB saw the virtual cache and saw that it was lame. They proclaimed throughout the land that lame virtual caches would not spoil the game. Their prophets spoke of coffee tables but many people did not understand and there was much hate and discontent in the world. The faithful worshippers of the lame 1/1 virtual threatened to quit and made a great noise but TPTB prevailed in the end and the lame 1/1 virts did not dominate the game.


But alas the powers of lameness would not go quietly. They brought forth an endless supply of 35mm film canisters with scrolls of paper inside and called them microcaches. The microcaches spread quickly like a plague on the land. They were hidden in playgrounds, and under benches, and at rest stops by the highway, and in every other place that could be thought of by persons with no imagination.


And thus it became so, that the lame micro would come to replace the lame virt and TPTB would be powerless to stop them unless the commandments were changed.


Call me elitist or old school but the proliferation of really lame microcaches has been getting out of hand lately. I would like to see new guidelines for hiding micros. Furthermore, I would like see microcaches given their own designation so that I can filter them out in my pocket queries and spot them easily in the search listing. If that’s too hard to implement then I would like to see the cache size attribute displayed on the search page so that I can know which caches are destined to be not worth my time to hunt.


I feel strongly that people are hiding these things just to hide something. They invest little in time, energy, or money to hide these so-called caches and they have no intention of maintaining them. They will simply archive them when they go missing which happens often when they are discovered by accident in a high traffic area, destroyed by a weed eater, or carried off by some animal.


Enough Lame Microcaches Already!

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If the micro hiders of Greensburg, PA would like to move to Boston, I would be most appreciative. While the hunt of tupperware and ammo boxes is fun (don't get me wrong), I have also had a great time on the 5-6 micros here in the city. They have the feeling of clandestine challenge that is fun when people are walking right by you and you are rooting around under the edge of the park bench trying not to be noticed.


I don't want everything to be a micro in the city, but finding the 35mm film canister with concert security walking right by you so you pull your cell phone out to play like you're taking a call is really cool.

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I'm not sure I share your seniments. However I want to say I loved the language you used to describe the history of Geocaching!


I think maybe...of course I could be wrong, that micros are becoming more popular as the sport grows. It is becoming harder and harder to place a traditional cache due to caches already in the area. I think this leads to the micros being placed.


Unlike traditional caches which are usually large and need some area in which to hide, the micros can be hidden in about any place. I don't think people are intentionally hiding lame micros in general, they are just trying to keep up with the sport the best they can.


El Diablo

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I agree.


There are others who have complained about urban micros, and to them their complaint is justified. To an extent I've also agreed, but the point at which I disagree is pretty blunt. My daughter stays home with me in the mornings 4 days/week instead of going to work with mommy. If the distance is within reason, I'll take her and hit up a few of these caches to give her an opportunity to find some caches that are at 'her level'. This means under park benches or hidden amongst playground equipment are just right for her. At her age, the logic/reasoning skills of finding rural caches aren't all that developed, and with some gentle coaxing, she'll search the right area and locate the cache. I've taken her on a few rural caches, but I'm very particular about those, because it's easier and more enjoyable to find the park caches. Besides, she doesn't get to run off and 'ping' (swing) at a cache in the middle of the desert like she can at the park.


Nothing beats the excitement of a young child finding the cache and literally jumping for joy because of it. Being able to create and enjoy those memories would be much more difficult if urban micros were to go away.

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We've certainly seen the growth of micros around here. So much so that I had to hold onto a travelbug for a few weeks because I couldn't find a cache big enough to place it in (it was a small stuffed animal). The new generation of cachers in this area seems pretty fond of Altoids. As I think back to the new caches I've done in the area, I've not seen anything bigger than a gladware sandwich container.


The rule on virtuals has been "No virtual where a micro can be hidden." I wonder if a similar line of thought should be considered with virtuals vs traditional caches (not a rule, mind you, just something to remind ourselves of). Except for those occasions where it's just plain fun to mess with someone's head, I don't see the reason for micros hidden in the woods.


A new cacher recently wrote me for some opinions about her caches. I was pretty positive but did make one suggestion. "My thought has always been that you go with as big a container as the environment will support. " Again, I wouldn't want to make this a hard and fast rule, but I think it's something that ought to be considered.



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I disagree with the topic starter. Micros used to ge unheard of around here and when they first started appearing around here, they offered a greater challenge than some of the equally lame ammo box caches.


I remember hearing complaints, but it was from some people who thought they were too hard to find. I would welcome more of them, or any caches for that matter.


I think the micro is the way of the future though, and predict that a majority of caches will be micros in the next few years.


Something for everyone. You don't have to look for them if you don't like them, but there is no need to regulate them.

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I do agree that micros should have their own icon. I disagrre when you label them lame. That is a subjective term, lame to you may not mean lame to someone else. There are "lame" types of any cache, indeed anything can be "lame". Does that mean they should all be done away with? In that case there would be far fewer baseball, football basketball etc. teams not to mention books, movies TV shows, music ad infinitum. I have done some very good micros and virtuals and locationless and multis and regular caches. I have also done some not so good ones of every type. I appreciated them all however, just some more than others. At least the hiders put forth the effort to keep the game going. I myself have only hidden one cache, I guess in your book it would be "lame", the few people who found it apparently did not think so tho. Not everyone will log 100's of finds or have alot of time to devote to this hobby. I wish I had more time to make some more caches in the future as I feel negligent in not doing so. Eventually I will tho and hopefully others will at least show their appreciation by finding or attempting to find them, even if they may be "lame". I do respect your opinoins and would hope you would repsect mine in return.


Cache On!

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Personally, I enjoy them, and they allow caching in places it couldn't otherwise exist. The problem is not with the size of the cache, but with those who don't show any imagination in the placement. Don't blame the container when it's the hider who's at fault.


If you really dislike them, use a GPX file handler like Utopia or Watcher that lets you filter caches by container size.



"Don't mess with a geocacher. We know all the best places to hide a body."

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I don't have a lot of caches found under my belt, but I'm thinking I've liked the micros I've seen a lot more than I've liked the tupperware caches.


And I'd prefer a micro over a virtual. We've got a bunch of virtuals out here that could be upgraded to micros without any difficulty.

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Lame micros? Can those compare to lame complaints?


Ever think that not everyone is capable of getting to every traditional cache? Maybe a few "lame" micros scattered around town is enough to keep them interested.


Low and behold another lame complaint wanders forth.


Listen, just don't do any micros. Leave them alone. For myself I enjoy them all. I could care less if every historical marker in the nation has a virtual attached. You don't need to stop if you don't want.


Oh and maybe you need to archive your two virtuals that you've hidden Quest if you think virtuals are so terrible. You might even consider deleting your logs that you've placed in any virtuals or lame micros. Make a stand on your own.


The rest of us will enjoy the game if ya don't mind.

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Although there are MANY exceptions -- great micros, lame traditionals (and even some very good virtuals and locationless) -- I have to agree with QM's general point. In many cases, it does take less effort and cost to hide a micro. And that leads to caches that are (for me) less fun to hunt and find. Not to mention it's not a lot of fun to spend an hour sticking your hand in every hollow tree to find some tiny container. :)


Personally, I really enjoy the puzzle caches. Those usually take a lot of effort to setup, and usually some level of constant support. I've hidden a handful of them, and not a week goes by that I don't see e-mails asking for hints or confirmations. I like that aspect of the game though -- I've met quite a few nice people by starting e-mail conversations about the puzzle.


I think micros are great for urban areas; and certainly taking my kids to the park to play and maybe find a nearby cache is wonderful. But there's nothing like a good long hike along a beautiful trail hunting for a well-stocked ammo box.


I'm in the process of compiling some statistics about our first 100,000 caches. I'll post them soon. It will be interesting to see what the trends have been, and how many micros there are (though there's no really good way to tell for sure; all we have to go on is the container size which is often unspecified).


In any case, everyone has made some excellent points in their posts. I like CYBret's idea of "hiding the largest container the environment will support". That seems to be a reasonably decent guideline. I guess for me it comes down to this: I'd rather find one good cache than ten lame ones. That said, the vast majority I've found have been terrific. I've been caching for close to two years, and I'm having just as much fun (or more) than when I first started. :)

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A time for everything and everything in its place. If you don't like them, don't seek them. Otherwise, don't pass judgment on the rest of us who do find them educational, interesting and fun. They are in spots that cannot support for one reason or another a traditional(even a small one). Let this sport evolve, not be stymied by those of short vision.

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Ah, well. Just don't look for the micros, then.

I anticipated that I would get a lot of responses like this.


I have fairly asked for a way to screen microcaches since more often than not they are hidden in areas that I do not like to hunt. Caches hidden in high traffic areas are lame in my opinion. (Is it always necessary to qualify everthing said in this forums in this way without people getting upset. Sheesh!) Watcher will work but I don't use it as often as the search page and it is never as up to date.


I did not say and did not mean to imply that all virtuals and microcaches are lame. I do, however, believe that they are much more likely to be lame for the reasons that I have already stated. My experiences hunting them confirms my belief. They are poorly maintained and often not worth looking for in the first place. I am giving them a big miss and will continue to do so in the future. I only wish that they would be put into their own category so that it would be easier to separate the wheat from the chaff.

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It's a floor wax AND a dessert topping! :) I agree with both those who say "if you don't like them don't search for them" and the original comment that it would be nice to have an indication of the size of the container in the PocketQueries. Apparently, there is some software that does do this according to one of the posts above, but no one followed up the discussion on that point. Does anyone have any more information about the two products that were mentioned? Thanks!

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We have 3 urban micros in Omaha that are really fun caches. I would not want to lose them.

I found one in Green Bay that was a really tough. I wouldn't want to lose that one either.


While I don't like lame caches, I don't like caches that are lame no matter whether they are micros or regular.


Tips for hiding caches could be developed as an online course that you had to take to register your caches on this site. This kind of standardization would go a long way to please land managers and to reduce lameness.

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This is all very interesting, as I came online for the purpose of making up the cache pages for a half dozen new microcaches that I've hidden. They will be appearing on Quest Master's "nearest unfound caches" list very shortly. :)


I spent six hours yesterday scouting the locations, deciding upon the best micro container for each location and preparing the containers (i.e., eating way too many Altoids and sniffing spray paint fumes). Today I spent seven more hours making up log sheets, finding micro-trinkets, hiding the caches and confirming the accuracy of the coordinates. This all meant zero cache finds for the weekend, but I had a lot of fun, because hiding is fun, too.... when it's done right.


Without thinking about it, I have actually been following the suggestion made by CYBret above... hide the type of container that is most appropriate for the surroundings. The park where I hid one of my micros today is so small, there is no place to hide an ammo box. I checked. Ever since then it has been on my list for the onslaught of evil micros. Two others are in very high traffic areas, but areas where geocachers will appreciate being introduced to. One provides a little-known scenic overlook of the Pittsburgh skyline. Another of the caches has an evil offset twist, and another micro is the first stage of a mulitcache that ends in a traditional container. None of my micros were just tossed by the side of the road.


Quest Master knows the care that I take in placing my caches (as he is the only person to have found all of the existing ones). He also knows that I maintain my caches. He will begrudgingly find each of them and maybe take a good-natured swipe at me in the online log. This is because we live in an area where all the geocachers respect each other and their right to have different preferences when it comes to geocaches. Quest Master places the best caches in Western Pennsylvania, in my opinion. But with one exception, a tribute to the Heroes of Flight 93 which crashed on 9/11, all of his caches are located way out in the woods somewhere. I enjoy a broader spectrum of caches than Quest Master does. I do agree with him to this extent: care should be taken to place QUALITY caches, regardless of the type or the size. I truly hope the caches I hid today meet that standard.


If you re-read his post, all that Quest Master is asking for is an easier way to filter out micros because it is a category he does not like to hunt for, and perhaps a different standard for hiding them.... maybe along the lines of what CYBret wrote. These are worthy topics of discussion, even if you disagree with some of the hyperbole. Micros are not, in my opinion, inherently "lame." Only the lame ones are.

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Micros: Just like any other caches there are ok ones, good ones and great ones. The creativity that we have seen in most the containers and the placements have been really fantastic. I say keep 'em coming.

To be able to get more specific in searching/filtering would be a great feature of geocaching.com, I agree.

Edited by CacheCreatures
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I'm sort of in agreement. I certainly would like visual indication of micros, that's for certain. I'm fortunate that the active placers in my area are sensative creative people, so we don't get so many of the 'lame' micros. Just for the heck of it I'll name names and talk about some of the micros I have found in my area.


Some Good...


Electric Kiss - An incredible super-micro. The hider is a very creative guy. Challenging, memorible, worthwhile.


Jim Howe Does Your Garden Grow - An FC in an urban community garden. It would be hard to put a full size cache here, but it's a neat spot - all sorts of flower gardens side by side with benches and paths and whatnot. Worth visiting, worthwhile.


Trigger Happy - an FC in (!) a really neat piece of sculpture in a somewhat out-of-the-way bit of parkland. No hiding place nearby for a full size cache. Not a hard find, but every visitor (myself included) thought it was a great place to have had attention called to. worthwhile.




Some Bad...


Blarney-A-Blaze - An FC on the front of a restaurant. I suppose the hider really likes the restaurant. Many logs (even within the cache) said "This is IT??", and I have to agree. It was an early find of mine and I almost felt like it didn't count - there wasn't really any point as far as I was concerned.


Ugly Duckling Lakes - I reported this one muggled. It had been by an urban pond that was choked with garbage scum and worse. Read the 9/23 log - me too. It was ugly alright, and the placers are nice folks - why did they bring me here?



So I guess looking at these, it's not the 'micro', it's the 'lame' that I object to. Although it's certainly easier to place a lame micro, it's not a given. Pass up micros and you could be missing great places. Combating lameness, well... that's a toughie.

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Well I hope we don't lose urban micros because there isn't a filter. While it might be nice to have something that would allow you to at least check off caches you don't want to locate.


But please, how difficult is it for you to simply click next page and continue looking for the caches you want?


You're sounding a tiny bit lazy to me. And more than a little selfish.

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  I would like see microcaches given their own designation so that I can filter them out in my pocket queries ... so that I can know which caches are destined to be not worth my time to hunt.


How dare you call my microcaches lame!


A few quotes from some logs of just one of my urban micros:


"Dude, I would PAY to go on your hunts. They're that good. This was my fourth Navdog find; the hardest and most fun so far. Life-enriching and clever. The perfect compliment to this sparkling fall day. Hats off to you, sir."


"We wanted something special for #500 and this was the only puzzle that I could solve and it turned out to be another Fantastic Navdog urban caching experience."


"BRILLIANT! Hey, credit, where credit is due. So many people, in our opinion, forget to acknowledge that. You, ‘My Man’, are the *Master of Urban Caches*! ...Thanks for the absolutely great hunt!"


"I'm somewhat of an architecture buff so this was the best urban multi I have ever done. Excellent job, Navdog!"


There is no difference between a lame tupperware cache or a lame micro. There are a lot of both. Don't bash all micros as lame until you have found a few good ones. There are some cachers in different parts of the country that have obtained legendary status for their clever micro hides. I'm not there yet but i'm working on it! :)

Edited by Navdog
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Things I'd like to add that haven't been said yet:


My favourite caches are mostly quality traditional caches in remote rural places where no muggle would ever find them, caches which are often found by few people only who are up to the callenge, and which are well-stocked with quality stuff to begin with, and maintained in similar condition by the finders.


My least favourite caches are traditional caches in park&grab locations, which pose no serious challenge to anyone, and which fill up with trash immediately.


In between, there are the microcaches. In urban area they can still be a challenge, and the log-only aspect eliminates the trash aspect.


I agree with all those who object to the spread of lame caches, whether miro or not.


I also agree to those who are in favor of a more in-your-face indicator of whether something is a regular or a micro. However, since I object to standardization, I would rather we eliminate the definition of the container types and sizes altogether, and instead make a more useful distinction, between trading caches and log-only caches.

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I also agree to those who are in favor of a more in-your-face indicator of whether something is a regular or a micro. However, since I object to standardization, I would rather we eliminate the definition of the container types and sizes altogether, and instead make a more useful distinction, between trading caches and log-only caches.

Interesting idea. I like it, but if you make a disinction between log only caches, and trade caches, then you will create a division between people who prefer one over the other, and then there will be a huge debate over whether log only caches are "real" caches since there are no items, everyone will rehash the same tired arguments for months, then someone will get warned, and the topic will be closed. :)


Still, it would be neat to see some distinction for micros, mini caches (small, but room for a few trades), and hydrocaches. That has all been discussed before. The concensus is that they are more attributes than actual cache types. I have no idea if there are plans to implement a cache attribute section on cache listings.

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I didn't read all the posts, but there must be a 'Markwell' in here somewhere. I have quite a few of those 35mm cans unintentionally hidden around the house. Most are empty and a few have used and unused film in them. This film will probably stay in that condition due to the digital camera. I wonder when these will become rare? I'll bet Kodak has an educated guess on that.

One cache I found had a 35mm can that was fitted into a foam rock, the rock was especially made for this. Fifty years from now someone will find one and say,"What the.....!" :)

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I generally do them all, but I can see QM's point, and I think CYBret hit the nail on the head.

I love a good urban micro. Some of my favorite cache finds have been caches that 1000's of people a day pass within feet of. I enjoy the added thrill of finding the cache without being detected.

That said, I really HATE what I call the "micro in a haystack" type hides. It really doesn't take much thought or work to make a film canister or bison tube difficult to find in a 1000 acre forest.

A film canister wedged in a crack at the base of a city statue is cool, that same film canister hidden under a rock in a boulder field is lame, IMHO.

Tupperware, ammo cans, micros, and yes, even virtuals all have a time and place. Picking the proper cache container for the enviroment is the first step in hiding a quality cache.

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I'll add my two cents. I LOVE micros. If it hadn't been for the flood of cleverly placed micros locally I would have burned out on traditional caches long ago. They are a great change of pace and generally more challenging to find.


I still enjoy finding traditional caches but the micros are what really have been keeping me going this past year.

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I generally do them all, but I can see QM's point, and I think CYBret hit the nail on the head.

I love a good urban micro. Some of my favorite cache finds have been caches that 1000's of people a day pass within feet of. I enjoy the added thrill of finding the cache without being detected.

Thanks, Mopar, and thanks also for helping me clarify something.


I also love urban micros. Some of my favorite stories that I tell when a bunch of us get together are the tales of Bsmalley's micros around Lincoln, IL. They're imaginative, well camouflaged and sometimes a real pain to get to undetected! Loads of fun!


But this also fits in with my philosophy of "you go with as big a container as the

environment will support." In an urban setting that's exactly what the environment will support, but a half mile walk into the woods probably means there's enough room for an ammo box or at least something bigger than an Altoids tin.


Unfortunately around here the trend has been to keep them small even in the woods. In my own experience (as I mentioned above) this has hurt the travelbug population around here. Please....think of the bugs! :)



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The subject of an icon for microcaches has come up before, several times by me, and the discussion belongs in the Geocaching.com Discussion forum. I too would like to see an indication in the cache list of the final cache size. It's in the cache description page, but I don't want to look through them all to see the size. A separate category for micros wouldn't help because of the final cache for a multi or a puzzle cache could be any size. A separate icon with the final cache size makes more sense.


Third-party software like Watcher can show the cache size in the listing or can be used to filter caches by size (and type, etc), but we are talking about the capabilities of geocaching.com.

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Don't push the limited access people out who need 1/1's to be able to cache. I have a few 1/1's out there. I have them so people can do them on their lunch break, as many have been found then. I also do them for those who are handicapped or in any way not able to do the harder ones. This is a game for everyone, well it should be at least. A nice 1/1 vert or urban micro was good for those that couldn't get their wheelchairs or scooters up the cliff face.


We threw the baby out with the bathwater once already with verts. don't do it again. If you don't like a certain type of cache then don't hunt them but you whining and making other people, who may enjoy it, loose that ability is wrong.

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Well, first and most important of all, I am very new at all this ---- BUT!!


Let us all remember that "Beauty is in the eye of the Beholder" and many of the caches that are placed around this great country are there to bring attention to something the cache placer thought was worthy of note, therefore nothing is truly "lame".


Whether the cache is a micro or traditional, generally is of little importance, it is the location that is the thing, so that would definately dictate that the container should fit the environment in which it is placed.


Here in San Antonio, we have a cache queen who is very clever indeed, and many of her caches are micros. In finding them, we have been in beautiful areas so close to home, that their beauty (in a large city) is amazing. I am thankful for her placements, and in the knowledge and beauty they have shown me. I am happy to simply sign a logbook and enjoy the scenery around me, so lets keep em coming.


As to agreement, well I am handicapped, so some of the caches that many of you hike to find, I cannot get close to. Appropriate filters would be nice so that any one of us could filter out caches that he (or she) are either unable to find or simply aren't interested in, but that kind of programming will take some time I am sure and, of course, that would be another story.


I am thankful for this wonderful sport and all that goes with it, so lets all respect each other and not be so critical of one another, and just have the fun that Geocaching is all about.

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We threw the baby out with the bathwater once already with verts. don't do it again. If you don't like a certain type of cache then don't hunt them but you whining and making other people, who may enjoy it, loose that ability is wrong.

I think that you are making one of the points that I tried to put forward in my original post but just in case some of you don't get it because you have not been playing the game long enough or paying close enough attention I will try to explain it this time in plain English.


Virtual (and, BTW, locationless) have been pretty much eliminated by TPTB because they were abused. Virtuals did not die on their own. They were killed by people who waypointed stupid stuff and wanted to call it a cache. They got away with it for awhile but ultimately TPTB found it necessary to clamp down on them. Ditto for locationless. I see the same trend in micros and you can bet that the approvers, who are all avid geocachers, are aware of this problem also. If this trend continues, the day will surely come when they will have to clamp down on micros as well. The same ill will and bad feelings created by the demise of the virt will be repeated. The approvers' mailboxes will overflow with hate mail from irate hiders of lame micros just as they were by the hiders of lame virts.


Some will still say that I am just whining and proclaim loudly that I shouldn't hunt them if I don't like them but that little piece of wisdom didn't cut it with the virts and it probably isn't going to cut it now. If you dig long enough in the forum archives you will find a thread just like this about lame virts. The writing is, as they say, on the wall. If you like micros, then you should be willing to accept guidelines that will keep them viable. You will likewise support the idea of putting them into their own category so that you can filter for them just as I would like to filter them out.

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Yeah but why do we kill everyone because of the few. You say some people abused the vert, and locationless caches. I am sure they did. People abuse everything in some form or another, but to kill it all over a few is ridiculous.


Some people abuse the elderly so should we get rid of the old people?


How about get rid of the people who abuse them.


Lets focus on the ones that are the problems and not blame an inanimate object (microcaches). A rating system? Maybe but that will get abused as well. A private email from the local approvers to the lame micro placers? Maybe but that puts more work on the approvers. It also brings up, what constitutes a lame micro?


There are lots of things that can be done , but blaming an inanimate object is a little silly to me.


I say let them be. If they are lame then move on. I have found lame ones before. I have also hunted what I thought would be a lame cache only to discover it was a great hide and a fun cache.


Let them be and everything will work out. If it isn't up to your "standards" it could be up to someone else's.


In long I guess what I am saying is don't make decisions for me as that is my right.

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Although urban micros are generally not my cup of tea, I can appreciate that there is a place for them in this game. However, I do agree and have always felt that there should be a separate icon for them for basically the same reasons given by Quest Master. I also don’t think that new regulations are needed for hiding micros; however, I have noticed that the rules that are in place concerning off-limit caches are often times violated with micros. I’m sure that this is not intentional, but simply facilitated by the nature of micros. It’s easy to place a micro on a highway bridge, on a public overlook, or in a hole in the side of building. Again, no criticism is intended, but perhaps greater administrative scrutiny of micros is warranted to insure that their placement will not raise concerns of malicious activity by others.

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I wish that there was an easy way to distinguish between lame micros and cool micros. I wish that there was an objective means of determining whether a micro is the most appropriate container size for a particular location. But realistically, how could such a rule be fairly formulated and enforced? We have already witnessed much flaming of the cache reviewers because of alleged "subjectivity" in deciding whether or not to approve virtual caches. It strikes me that determining the appropriateness of a microcache placement is even more subjective... perhaps impossible absent a site visit or a privately uploaded photograph for the cache reviewer to look at.


We may be asking the listing service to do a bit more than is reasonably possible. I would rather prevail upon hiders to hide only quality caches, letting the logs and popularity for the caches be the ultimate judge, and perhaps offering an easier means for filtering out caches according to categories which do not appeal to a particular individual.


OK Quest Master and Team Willow..... come find my six new lame micros. :) As a result of this discussion, I am going to revisit one of them to find a better hiding place. The other ones, I'm quite proud of.

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I'll concede Lep's point that I may be asking too much of the admins to absolutely determine if a micro is appropriately hidden. I will still offer, however, that cache hiders of micros (especially) should take extra care in determining an appropriate location given concerns of terrorism and other public fears.

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"Lame" micros are easy to hide. You can find a guardrail pretty much anywhere in which to stick a keylocker magnetic micro. But I'm not complaining as those seem to be my best bets for nightcaching.

Good point. When C2 and I started caching we did most of our caching at night and those 1/1's that are complained about get a little tougher at night.


In Memphis when it is 0300 and you are rooting around in some urban "jungle" for a cache, things change.


Lack of light.


Bums asking for money.


Stepping on sleeping bums.


Getting mugged.


Gunfire. Incoming and outgoing.


All the stanard night time caching things. It makes them alittle tougher to deal with.

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If this trend continues, the day will surely come when they will have to clamp down on micros as well.  The same ill will and bad feelings created by the demise of the virt will be repeated. 


Some will still say that I am just whining and proclaim loudly that I shouldn't hunt them if I don't like them but that little piece of wisdom didn't cut it with the virts and it probably isn't going to cut it now. 


If you like micros, then you should be willing to accept guidelines that will keep them viable. 

I thought it was very unfortunate that virt's went away - I've done some that were really fun, and they can be a great way to introduce your spouse to the game. Having said that, I've done a couple of them that really sucked - I can certainly see the problems that caused their demise.


I would hate to see micros go the same way. I like them, and sometimes they are all you can do in an urban area. I do think that people tend to forget that micros can be a whole lot harder to find than a typical cache, because the volume of space to search can be much, much larger. (There's only so many ways to hide an ammo can most places - but a 35mm film can in a hedge pretty much requires you to search the entire volume of the hedge.) Is this something you object to, in addtion to the other things you mentioned?


What do you think the rules for micros should be? I can see your point about putting micros into their own category - I can't see the harm in this. I can also see making guidelines concerning rating the difficulty of micros. (A tiny, camo'd object with thousands of potential hiding spots can be really hard to find! This can be quantified, it seems to me.) But how do you make rules or guidelines that ensure that people put well thought out and fun micro caches in areas where another type of cache isn't really possible? This is your main objection, right - that some people get a little lazy and create little caches that just aren't fun? What about micros that are stages in a multicache?

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