PLEASE READ BUT DO NOT POST

August 15, 2003

To my fellow geocachers,

The debate over "virtuals" has raged for days now. With fall coming around the corner, our focus needs to be on caching, which this site has almost solely made a world-wide sport that is continuously growing. People like Jeremy have created such a superb site and I really don't see another taking its place. But like any "new" sport, there will be kinks that must be ironed out. How to deal with virtuals is a kink we are dealing with now. I am sure that others will arise as we grow. I cannot help but feel that I have fueled this debate by a thread I began 3 days ago. I do not regret posting what I said because I did feel I could help find a possible solution. At times, people have become angry and sarcastic, but for the most part we have handled the situation better than most groups on the net. There is no need to "split" or leave the group. We need to continue to support this website and HELP make it better. At last count, approx 100 people had voted and 67% have said either make virtuals seperate or at least change the rules with 45% saying make them separate. When basketball was invented, there was no 3-point line or even "slam dunks". Hey, they even wore those really short shorts. But as times changed, so did the game. This sport of geocaching, just as other sports, has to be dynamic. It has to be able to adapt to new situations that may arise. Otherwise it will die. I do not want to see that happen. Although I may not agree with the admins of this site or even my approver, this is still their site and their rules. However, I am a paying member,as most of you are as well, and I feel my voice should be heard. Most of you have spoken by voting. Now it is up to Jeremy, the head honcho, to decide what is to be done. I will leave the only posting to this thread to be done by him. I will support his decision what ever he decides and will remain with the sport that gives me so much enjoyment. I ask that you guys make a decision about how you will handle this and stand by that decision.

Personal note to Jeremy: I thank you for giving us a site where we can express our opinions and one that really promotes the sport of geocaching in a postive way. I hope that you will listen to what people have said concerning virtual caches. Most feel that they are a part of this game and want virtuals to stay for various reasons.

Yesterday, I said I hope this subject can be "put to bed". I tried to provide a way for that to happen by giving cachers a vote. I hope now that the results are in that a decision, whatever that decision, can be made and we can just move on to other topics. Thanks.

"Freedom is never given, it is won" A. Phillip Randolph

God bless

4.8k · August 15, 2003

Sorry, but the words *do not post* are way too tempting to me. The rebel in me had to do it!

I read all the threads and posted minimally in them. I don't have real strong feelings on the subject but like the idea of a separate area for virtuals. Anyway, it has been interesting. Thanks for being so level headed about it all.

38.2k · August 15, 2003

I think Jeremy and the other BTB have expressed pretty valid reasons for the crackdown on virtuals. There is no ban. There is a tightning of the rules. I think this is a good thing because every flagpole, fence post and roadside marker doesn't have to be a virtual cache.

Anybody here can place a virtual. They just have to prove to the admins that there is no way they can place a real cache AND virtual will make other people say "wow", rather than "OK, so what".

I think that's a pretty reasonable standard.

"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry

8.4k · August 15, 2003

Our thread on texasgeocaching.com has been dubbed the thread that will never die. It's on its 13th page now. I haven't bothered to post on it, or read very much for that matter. I don't care. I like em. Some are lame and some aren't. I don't see anyone deleting finds from their own stats.

Ohh we're not supposed to reply. Ooops I hate it when that happens.

Sngans

Sacred cows make the best hamburger....Mark Twain.

38.2k · August 15, 2003

Oops, we weren't supposed to reply to this?

"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry

2.5k · August 15, 2003

With that whole post all bunched together in one paragraph, I started to fall asleep while reading it.

Can someone sum up what exactly it is all about?

8.4k · August 15, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by cachew nut:
With that whole post all bunched together in one paragraph, I started to fall asleep while reading it.

Can someone sum up what exactly it is all about?

Yea, I wasn't going to say anything, but it is hard on the eyes.

I really just wanted to say that I miss your old Avatar CN.

Sngans

Sacred cows make the best hamburger....Mark Twain.

4.8k · August 15, 2003

quote:
Oops, we weren't supposed to reply to this?

Not according to the name of the topic. Of course that just made me want to post! Then I had to think of something more on topic to add!

quote:
I really just wanted to say that I miss your old Avatar CN.

I like this one, but I think that is because he used it before the last one (I think that is right?), so I associate it with him more. This coming from a person who might change her avatar again. I know the current one is popular, but I am considering a temporary change for awhile. Haven't decided yet. I'm deciding between consistency and following my avatar whims.

8.4k · August 15, 2003

Finally, a chance for my avatar to look up your avatar's dress.

Sngans

Sacred cows make the best hamburger....Mark Twain.

4.8k · August 15, 2003

quote:
Finally, a chance for my avatar to look up your avatar's dress.

August 15, 2003

zzzzzzzzz

who REALLY cares

The sport is going out and finding the caches. Not how they are logged.

This is probably an issue to less than 1% of cachers. Granted those are likely the same ones who post tirelessly on the boards(as of this post,I still have more caches found than posts)

I havent personally done any virts, mostly because there are plenty of real caches nearby. I dont care, neither do 99.9% of the people care about virts counting in the total cache found count. They are listed seperately under each member's profile if its that much of an issue.

Geocaching will not die because of virtuals one way or the other. Until there is professional geocaching, it really doesnt matter if they are a seperate category or not.

As far as allowing or not allowing them, I think the policy currently is the correct one. If a physical cache can be placed in a location, a virt should not be allowed. Now, I can understand allowing a virt in National Parks, but not in most other instances.

By the way 100 people aren't very large #s when you look at the total population of geocachers.

1.8k · August 15, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:

I think Jeremy and the other BTB have expressed pretty valid reasons for the crackdown on virtuals. There is no ban. There is a tightning of the rules. I think this is a good thing because every flagpole, fence post and roadside marker doesn't have to be a virtual cache.

I agree ... This sport is about finding a cache ie. something that is hidden. Flagpoles, fence post and hiway mile markers are not hidden. The admins are doing an excellent job in tightening down on virts.

1.4k · August 15, 2003

post

When in doubt...hit it with a big hammer.

August 15, 2003

I agree with the disagree'ence of the agree'ers disagreement...

Oh and Bubba Cache, weren't you the one who posted a poll debating virtuals not 2 days ago... uh huh

1.5k · August 15, 2003

I'm not posting, I'm 'replying'.

Brian

Team A.I.

1.4k · August 15, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by pnew:
I agree with the disagree'ence of the agree'ers disagreement...

Oh and Bubba Cache, weren't you the one who posted a poll debating virtuals not 2 days ago... uh huh

http://www.texasgeocaching.com

I think I would agree if it was less agreeable with the board.

When in doubt...hit it with a big hammer.

8.4k · August 15, 2003

Bump: This was gettin too far away from that other thread.

Sngans

Sacred cows make the best hamburger....Mark Twain.

August 15, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Bubba Cache:
To my fellow geocachers,

With fall coming around the corner, our focus needs to be on caching,

Easy for you to say, apparently you'e not a Cubs or Bears fan.

4.8k · August 15, 2003

quote:
Easy for you to say, apparently you'e not a Cubs or Bears fan.

Yay! Go Cubbies!

1.4k · August 15, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Snoogans:
Bump: This was gettin too far away from that other thread.

Sngans

http://www.texasgeocaching.com Sacred cows make the best hamburger....Mark Twain.

What he said.

When in doubt...hit it with a big hammer.

August 15, 2003

Seems like a interesting subject

I'm headed out of town next weekend and planning some caches to do on the trip.

Including a few virtuals.

What better way to check out the area and warm up for the challenging ones.

'Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain..

the.. Great..er..Oz has spoken.'

Frank Morgan, in MGM's The Wizard of Oz 1939

8.4k · August 16, 2003

Just one for the road.

Sngans

Sacred cows make the best hamburger....Mark Twain.

3.8k · August 16, 2003

==============="If it feels good...do it"================

**(the other 9 out of 10 voices in my head say: "Don't do it.")**

.

4.8k · August 16, 2003

quote:
**(the other 9 out of 10 voices in my head say: "Don't do it.")**

But you not only posted here, but in the other thread as well!

August 16, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:
I think Jeremy and the other BTB have expressed pretty valid reasons for the crackdown on virtuals. There is no ban. There is a tightning of the rules. I think this is a good thing because every flagpole, fence post and roadside marker doesn't have to be a virtual cache.

Anybody here can place a virtual. They just have to prove to the admins that there is no way they can place a real cache AND virtual will make other people say "wow", rather than "OK, so what".

I think that's a pretty reasonable standard.

_"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry_

is it really a tightening of the rules or are the rules now being applied as they are written?

'Get to the point---speak English!!!!'

August 16, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Cholo:

quote:
Originally posted by Bubba Cache:
To my fellow geocachers,

With fall coming around the corner, our focus needs to be on caching,

Easy for you to say, apparently you'e not a Cubs or Bears fan.

what have the cubs or the bears ever done in the fall that is interesting?!?!?!

'Get to the point---speak English!!!!'

August 16, 2003

I bought all new socks yesterday!

1k · August 16, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by dave and jaime:

what have the cubs or the bears ever done in the fall that is interesting?!?!?!

Up until last year, you could have included the Angels in that group too. Did last year really happen?

_________________________________

Webfoot

Tromping through the underbrush looking for Ammo cans, Tupperware containers, & little round disks.

22k · August 16, 2003

The sweet corn in Iowa is fantastic this year. Plus I don't have to buy it, just pick it out of my field. ahhhhhh, the good life.

2.3k · August 16, 2003

Go Yanks! Free your mind and the rest will follow

8.4k · August 16, 2003

Thank TPTB for locking that other thread before I was forced to waste more of my weekend. hydee was very humane and I'm sure it didn't suffer.

Sngans

Sacred cows make the best hamburger....Mark Twain.

4.8k · August 16, 2003

quote:
Thank TPTB for locking that other thread before I was forced to waste more of my weekend. hydee was very humane and I'm sure it didn't suffer.

I second that. Now, it is not clear if anyone (except maybe hydee) won. I think we all lost, but that could also mean that we all have to send golf balls and Mctoys to each other! I think it is all lose but with voluntary payment. With that said, I am prepared to TB a dirty golf ball to Snoogans, Chris&Cindy and hydee. Webfoot too, since he says he is sending one to me! I'll send you guys an email Monday to see where the Tbs' goals should be.

8.4k · August 16, 2003

Actually the gaming commission in Nevada would rule all bets null since TPTB made a bet that resulted in a win for the house. Can't do that when you shill a game. I'd say that we are all off the hook.

Sngans

Sacred cows make the best hamburger....Mark Twain.

1.4k · August 16, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Snoogans:
Actually the gaming commission in Nevada would rule all bets null since TPTB made a bet that resulted in a win for the house. Can't do that when you shill a game. I'd say that we are all off the hook.

Sngans

http://www.texasgeocaching.com Sacred cows make the best hamburger....Mark Twain.

Yeah but carleenp's idea is more entertaining.

When in doubt...hit it with a big hammer.

4.8k · August 16, 2003

quote:
I'd say that we are all off the hook.

You are all off the hook. But I still want to send dirty golf ball TBs to you all! No need to reciprocate! That is voluntary!

1.4k · August 16, 2003

I will send you a golf ball and Snoogans a Mctoy.

When in doubt...hit it with a big hammer.

1k · August 16, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by carleenp:

quote:
I'd say that we are all off the hook.

You are all off the hook. But I still want to send dirty golf ball TBs to you all! No need to reciprocate! That is voluntary!

Once I find a dirty golf ball and buy me some new travel bugs, it'll be on the way. Where do you want me to send it?

_________________________________

Webfoot

Tromping through the underbrush looking for Ammo cans, Tupperware containers, & little round disks.

1.4k · August 16, 2003

Snoogans and carleenp I sent you both an email but I got a strange message so I am not sure if it went through. Let me know where you want your TB's sent and I will get them out this week (hopefuly). Had a blast betting on the posts.

When in doubt...hit it with a big hammer.

4.8k · August 16, 2003

Bugs can be sent to me either by making the goal to get to any cache in the Lincoln or Omaha, Nebraska area. Or you could use this cache as a specific goal.

I'll email you all Monday. I think emails sent tonight still go through, but I'm not sure on that. I know that the same error message comes up when logging finds, but the log still goes through.

PLEASE READ BUT DO NOT POST

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