Question for the resident police about bomb threats.

1.6k · May 25, 2003

We've all heard or read the stories of bomb squads being called to caches.

Doesn't the police forces have a bulletin system to give other departments a heads up on things? What about a bulletin for the bomb squads alerting them to caches. This way they can look up on the website and see if a cache is located in the area and at least see if it's a traditional cache?

A dispatcher could look up the cache on the website and relay cache discription and number of logs, etc. to the responders to let them know with good probability if it's a cache or not.

Maybe, even recruit a local cacher to give detailed descriptions and locations of all of the caches in the area.

Or, educate the dispatcher so they can ask questions of the person calling it in so it might be determined if it's a cache or not.

Not saying there shouldn't be a response for something called in, but it could make a difference between an all out, shut down the freeway, evacuate a two mile radius bomb scare and a fairly routine call.

Just wondering.

CR

May 25, 2003

You are assuming that the police know that it might be a cache container.....

In other words, how are they going to really know....

--------------------------------------------------

If you drop your keys into molten lava just let 'em go 'cause, man, they're gone.

9.5k · May 25, 2003

Also, a dispatcher's job is not about researching the problem before dispatching the services. A delay by researching could spell real trouble.

In reality, the folks that discover the caches do need to use the education they were given and read the box.

Now this also begs the question on how some of these caches are hidden... with an edge showing instead of the side where the label is at. I'm not criticizing these clever hides. My question is:

Is there a smaller version of the label that can be used so all 6 sides are plastered with the ID and website?

Cheers!

TL

May 25, 2003

quote:
Is there a smaller version of the label that can be used so all 6 sides are plastered with the ID and website?

I like this idea, yet most caches I go to don't even have anything inside them, like a description, My question is. How are we going to get the cachers to do this.

Maybe even a sticker that says " THIS IS NOT A BOMB, IT IS PART OF A HIDE AND SEEK GAME!

NOSEEUMS--High Protein Low Calorie unpacked trail snacks!!!!

See You In the Woods!!!

Natureboy1376

1.6k · May 25, 2003

I'm not advocating any delay in dispatch.

For example on the dispatcher/operator end:

Dispatcher: 9-1-1 What's your emergency?

Caller: I've found a box in the park, under the overpass kinda hidden in a bush. No one's around and, you know, it's kinda suspicous.

Dispatcher: I have you on a cellphone. what's your location?

Caller: I, uh, I'm in City Park next to Main Street.

Dispather: Without getting any closer or disturbing it can you discribe this box?

Caller: It looks like someone paint a tupperware container black. I can't see it.

Dispather: Is there any writting on it?

Caller: Well... uh, yeah. I can see C-H-I-N-G-dot-com written on it.

I acted out the above to my wife as she timed me--it took about 25 one-one thousand counts.

This is probably not much more than what is actually asked on a call, but could save a code three response.

Then as the squad is on the way, dispatch could look at a list of caches in the area and radio the description.

It's kind of like the difference between responding to a theft versus a robbery. The response is needed, but it's handled differently.

CR

May 25, 2003

I don't think any amount of labeling will make a difference. I also doubt that you'll ever get any department (other than maybe one in a small town) to change their procedures to support our game, particularly if it's going to cost a single second of response time.

The reason is (as with most things), legal liability. Say someone calls in about a "suspicious box" and the dispatcher dismisses it because it's in the general area of a cache. Then the box blows up, killing the person who called in about it. The city/county/whatever would have enough of a legal problem if the person hadn't called in about it, but they did and the call was disregarded.

Law enforcement will always err on the side of caution. In concept, it's a good idea, as it reduces the likelyhood that someone will get hurt while limiting the liability placed on the department. In practice, it seems like overkill a lot of the time and frustrates people like us who think, "but it said Geocaching.com right on the side!"

There's no one-size-fits-all solution, and they're going to choose the option that reduces their liability every time.

Just my $.02, and IANAL.

--

Random fortune:

sigimage.php

May 25, 2003

ditto cruzin.

policy change, legal/liability issues, and time constraints would be problems.

i'd like to pose a what if.

what if some sick bast#$% put a device in a cache? what if they knew that officers were assuming that there is no device in a cache?

policy is developed, and changed slowly and in a methodical manner. one must put an idea through many processes, and scenarios before it works.

robbie

ps - our dept allows us to ask for a callback while enroute.. the dispatcher calls the complaintant and can ask specific questions. very time consuming and we usually don't get too much good info back.

A family that Geocaches together... eventually gets wet.

required reading

My first bible

May 25, 2003

i cant speak to how the police will react but as an former militarybomb squad member i can tell you that if it gets that far it is going to be taken serious. and some yahoo coming up and telling me that the tupperware container im about to go down on is a game is going to get little attention from me. i may suggest he open it for me.....

1.3k · May 25, 2003

I don't think the words "This is not a bomb" should be placed on caches. This might offer a possibility to an accidental finder that they may not even have considered. It may be even better to print on the container that it is something one might expect to find and belive harmless. For instance "Termite control station" or "Air quality sampling kit".

"The way eye"

May 25, 2003

quote:
Maybe even a sticker that says " THIS IS NOT A BOMB, IT IS PART OF A HIDE AND SEEK GAME!

Putting a sticker on a cache thats says the above is stupid.If I were going to hide a bomb that would be the first thing I would put on it.

I'm a man and I can change if I have to,I guess.

May 25, 2003

Truckers use a cache like 3 inch ABS pipe on trailers for paperwork, I can realll many times these fell off trucks and freeways were shut down, bomb squads called, and the poor sots papers BLOWN up (By the Police).

Clearly labeling it as what it IS is the best thing. Also putting the knpwledge in someone ocal that it is there, is good, then when commotion starts someone will say, "I know what it is."

The point of the ID stickers is that there is no doubt that the cache is a cache, and registered on the site.

It gives a place to look before panic sets in.

(of course terrorists want to place bombs in tree forks in a field... perhaps the "under bridge" caches should be more thoroughly discouraged)

The sanctioned GeoCaches are supposed to be marked, and hopefully not constructed LIKE a bomb. (A pipe with threaded caps at each end would give ME Pause)

Jeff

3.8k · May 25, 2003

Let's just hope the terrorists don't decide to become geocachers.

1.2k · May 26, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Sissy-n-CR:
Doesn't the police forces have a bulletin system to give other departments a heads up on things? What about a bulletin for the bomb squads alerting them to caches. This way they can look up on the website and see if a cache is located in the area and at least see if it's a traditional cache?

Yup, there is such a system, but it takes a while for information to be sent out to all the people that recevie it. Actually, it is sent to all bomb techs, not just to all police departments. Only techs are authorized to receive these particular bulletins. So as you can see, they would not reach dispatchers, and just as well, they already have plenty to keep track of.

I am already in the process of developing just such a bulletin and getting it sent out, although, that does not mean anyone will change any policy or procedure in response to it. It's just another piece of information they will use to evaluate what they have on the scene.

We'll just have to wait and see.

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

May 26, 2003

As a 20+ year veteran, I can assure you that each and every call will be checked out. Sometimes you have to think like a terrorist. One of the best places to put a device is the obvious one. Just because a cache is listed dosen't mean the location hasn't been compromised. I beleve I read in the section regarding hiding a cache, not to place a cache in an area which could be construed as the placement of a device, or to e careful hiding a cache ear buildings/landmarks.

I once responded to a call for a suspicous package. Tje package in question was an ammo box. (sound familiar?) After the bomb squad responded and the techs x-rayed the box it was found to be holding spent 50 cal. rounds.

In this day and age, the police can not afford to take a chance on any suspicious packages.

May 26, 2003

As a 20+ year veteran, I can assure you that each and every call will be checked out. Sometimes you have to think like a terrorist. One of the best places to put a device is the obvious one. Just because a cache is listed dosen't mean the location hasn't been compromised. I beleve I read in the section regarding hiding a cache, not to place a cache in an area which could be construed as the placement of a device, or to e careful hiding a cache ear buildings/landmarks.

I once responded to a call for a suspicous package. Tje package in question was an ammo box. (sound familiar?) After the bomb squad responded and the techs x-rayed the box it was found to be holding spent 50 cal. rounds.

In this day and age, the police can not afford to take a chance on any suspicious packages.

May 28, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Jacksons:
Maybe even a sticker that says " THIS IS NOT A BOMB, IT IS PART OF A HIDE AND SEEK GAME!

Putting a sticker on a cache thats says the above is stupid.If I were going to hide a bomb that would be the first thing I would put on it.

QUOTE]

Well I have never thought of hiding a bomb, so I wouldn't have thought that.....ok how about "part of a game, refer to www. geo" in bold

NOSEEUMS--High Protein Low Calorie unpacked trail snacks!!!!

See You In the Woods!!!

Natureboy1376

1.5k · May 28, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Sissy-n-CR:
We've all heard or read the stories of bomb squads being called to caches.

Doesn't the police forces have a bulletin system to give other departments a heads up on things? What about a bulletin for the bomb squads alerting them to caches. This way they can look up on the website and see if a cache is located in the area and at least see if it's a traditional cache?

A dispatcher could look up the cache on the website and relay cache discription and number of logs, etc. to the responders to let them know with good probability if it's a cache or not.

Maybe, even recruit a local cacher to give detailed descriptions and locations of all of the caches in the area.

Or, educate the dispatcher so they can ask questions of the person calling it in so it might be determined if it's a cache or not.

Not saying there shouldn't be a response for something called in, but it could make a difference between an all out, shut down the freeway, evacuate a two mile radius bomb scare and a fairly routine call.

Just wondering.

CR

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/72057_2000.gif

And finally we have a topic that I can certify myself as an expert on, as this IS my job.

For starters, I can see a definite misconception about what a dispatcher's job truly entails. Generally, the public believes that a dispatcher pretty much talks on the radio and does little else. This couldn't be further from the truth. Sure, if you were a police dispatcher in a town with a population of 3, that might be all you do. My daily tasks while working the radio include (but not limited to) the following:

Answering all radio traffic promptly with the information required.

-This could include running 27/28/29 traffic (driver license/vehicle registration/wants&warrants), to taking towtruck requests, calling for backup from other agencies if one of my officers gets into trouble (can't have enough backup when it hits the fan), calling for medics, medical examiner, ADOT for closure information, VMS board activation or A.L.E.R.T. for extended closures, contacting the duty office for VCU/EOD/PIO/SOU/SIU/media alert...whatever.

Also, I am required to Code20 (welfare check) my officers at specified intervals if I haven't heard from them over a period of time. With sometimes 40 or 50 officers I am responsible for, this alone is a daunting task.

While all of this is going on, I am required to maintain a working account of everything going on at my console, whether it be an active pursuit, officer involved shooting, or 16 simultaneous collisions, each requiring their own special needs.

To add even more to the workload, I am required to process my own warrants/stolen vehicles/runaways/terrorist organization member hits. This includes calling the ORI to confirm the warrant, locating the warrant out of ACIC/NCIC, and sending the dispo teletype, all while working the radio console and handling the above items.

And one final thing (I'm probably missing a few), I am responsible for answering my own console line, as well as one or 2 of the ringdowns from other agencies (PD/Fire). 911 calls are generally answered by calltakers in another room, but even some of those we need to answer.

I hope this doesn't come off as a flame, because that was definitely not my intent. It just goes to illustrate how it would be nearly impossible to educate all dispatchers on geocaching, and to ask specific questions regarding a potential cache. As another cacher stated, the time loss could be critical if one of us spent the time required on a call like this and something else more of an emergency was overlooked or ignored.

Full description of my required job duties

Don't get me wrong. The idea in concept is great. It would reduce the need to dispatch EOD and reduce costs, but in the grand scheme of things, training of this nature is going to be given a much lower priority over most other things. The likelihood of receiving any significant benefit of this type of training will hardly reap the benefit for the cost of providing the training, and in a situation where a potential bomb is present, the liability assumed by a dispatcher by NOT dispatching anyone to check out the situation is not something I am willing to accept, not only personally but because it could undermine public confidence in my officers and the department.

On a side note, my wife had the same perception of dispatchers before she sat with me on Valentine's Day. I was having a fairly uneventful day, until rush hour struck. I was working 15 or 16 simultaneous wrecks, a near road closure (most of the wrecks were within a 2-mile stretch), and in the midst of all this, worked a pursuit involving a hit/run suspect fleeing the scene as my officer rolled up. My only instructions to her were that if it got busy to sit back and shutup. When I had a moment to breathe, I looked back and her eyes were popping out of her head. She told me at that moment that she has an entirely new respect for my job, and no longer gives me a hard time when I come home telling her I had a rough day.

The public as a whole needs to experience a shift with a dispatcher to truly understand the volume of work we are responsible for doing, not only ensuring the safety of the officers working our district, but also getting the general public the help they require (tow, medics, etc...). In fact, any geocacher living in or interested in making a trip down to Phoenix is welcome to spend a shift with me working a metro console. I am confident I can change any perception you may have, if it differs from anything I have mentioned previous.

Brian

Team A.I.

May 28, 2003

We have one city here in Tennessee that when a cache is placed anywhere in there area that the cacher has to go to the police dept. and mark on a map where its at and what type of container it is in.

The cache can even be a ammo box just so they know where they are all located . The container must also have geocache on the outside. A local cacher had to go and retrieve his cache from the evidence lock up room.

There is less than 25 regular caches in there area.

Tennessee Geocacher

Geocaching Admin

1.5k · May 28, 2003

Try something as sane as that in an area where you have 1000+ caches in the entire metropolitan Phoenix area. On smaller scales, it's feasible.

Brian

Team A.I.

1.6k · May 28, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Brian - Team A.I.:

And finally we have a topic that I can certify myself as an expert on, as this IS my job.

And here I thought you guys just sat around and watched TV!

J/K

You really opened my eyes to what a dispatcher has to do. In the grand scheme of things a geocache is pretty low on the list.

Maybe, just a bulletin to the bomb squad alerting them to our little hobby would suffice. At least, then there wouldn't be the "what the f..." reaction when they open up a tupperware container full of McToys.

CR

1.2k · May 28, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Sissy-n-CR:

quote:
Originally posted by Brian - Team A.I.:

And finally we have a topic that I can certify myself as an expert on, as this IS my job.

And here I thought you guys just sat around and watched TV!

J/K

You really opened my eyes to what a dispatcher has to do. In the grand scheme of things a geocache is pretty low on the list.

Maybe, just a bulletin to the bomb squad alerting them to our little hobby would suffice. At least, then there wouldn't be the "what the f..." reaction when they open up a tupperware container full of McToys.

CR

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/72057_2000.gif

Hehehehe, sure there would.... I still do it and I've got over a hundred finds...LOL.

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

May 28, 2003

I think that the onus of responsibility lies with the cache owner. Think before you hide a cache in an urban setting. Surely a clear plastic container is better than an old army box if you are hiding a cache in a busy setting. Maybe the downtown park isn’t the place for a regular cache. Stickers and/or writing (clear and legible ) may help to alleviate suspicion . Well concealed would prevent the casual pedestrian from ever finding a cache. Most that I have found are away from urban developed areas and more out in the woods. We look for good views and a quiet walk away from it all. Who would try to blow up a bush in the woods? We can never stop someone from being stupid but we can protect each other by considering all aspects of our own actions.

Ask yourself, “Would I freak out if I found this here and didn’t know what it was?”

1.5k · May 30, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Sissy-n-CR:

quote:
Originally posted by Brian - Team A.I.:

And finally we have a topic that I can certify myself as an expert on, as this IS my job.

And here I thought you guys just sat around and watched TV!

Maybe, just a bulletin to the bomb squad alerting them to our little hobby would suffice. At least, then there wouldn't be the "what the f..." reaction when they open up a tupperware container full of McToys.

CR

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/72057_2000.gif

Well, we *do* have a ceiling-mounted 32" TV w/ satellite in OpComm. They were installed at each of the 3 dispatch centers in the state after the Rodeo-Chedeski fires last summer in north-central Arizona. Information was being released to the media first, and it was information that was quite important to us, as ALL of the highways in/around the fire area were the responsibility of my department. So, our bureau manager secured the funds and now we have them. As fire officials are anticipating an explosive fire season again this year, it will be great to have them in place.

As for the bomb squad thing, they'll end up saying "what the f..." after blowing it up with the robot.

Brian

Team A.I.

May 30, 2003

Dispatchers, always telling you where to go and what to do!

When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading.

Henny Youngman (1906 - 1998)

1.5k · May 30, 2003

Originally posted by brianmcm:
Dispatchers, always telling you where to go and what to do!

Yep!

I always liked this saying after I read it for the first time:

You may know where you are going and what you are doing.

God may know where you are and what you are doing.

But, if your Dispatcher doesn't know where you are and what you are doing, then I hope You and God are on very good terms.

It's funny, yet serious at the same time, and takes on an entirely new importance with me these days. I don't ever want another officer being shot on my air and having to work that traffic. I sent half the state to help him, but the last thing I want is another one, or hearing of a geocaching police officer being injured (or worse) on the job.

So to all geocaching officers, be safe.

Brian

Team A.I.

May 31, 2003

Amen to that brother! A good dispatcher is worth their weight in gold. But there are only two types of dispatchers. The one you can trust with your life and the one you hope is off duty or on a break when the

"$%^& hits the fan"

When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading.

Henny Youngman (1906 - 1998)

1.4k · June 1, 2003

quote:
there are only two types of dispatchers. The one you can trust with your life and the one you hope is off duty or on a break when the
"$%^& hits the fan"

Amen! Unfortunately, the good ones seem to be in the minority I think all dispacthers should be required to ride a minimum of a week's worth of patrol shifts before being allowed to perform their job. I think one problem is that many dispatchers just don't know what it's like to be out on the street...

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

June 1, 2003

Sad story, but somewhat related.

http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Jun/06012003/utah/62098.asp

Anyone else think the "psychic" may have had a gps'er in their hand?

BobMc

1.5k · June 2, 2003

brianmcm,

Have you ever read the 'story' that MADD (I believe) printed awhile back about how to make a trooper cry? It's a great story, and you've have to be the spawn of evil not to be moved by the images it creates in your mind.

If I couldn't be the type of dispatcher my officers would WANT on the air, I'd quit the job and walk away. Their safety is paramount, and I take my job as a lifeline/information resource very seriously.

Brian

Team A.I.

Question for the resident police about bomb threats.

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Join the conversation