Geocaches that don't look like trash (bird house cache)

March 1, 2003

I haven't created a geocache yet, but if I do, my plan is to make one not look like trash or something littering the area (like a paint bucket). To those of you who comment that caches shouldn't be visible, I look at the many barrels and buckets of stuff that people pitch in some of the more urban parks around here (and a lot of that isn't visible to those on the trail, either). Since I don't feel good about adding to the pile, I was thinking of a bird house strung on the side of a tree. This would make it so it would look respectible to everyone who goes near it, and it won't get covered by snow in the winter. The bird feeder/bird house would have a can or something inside it that would have the log and goodies. (This assumes that it meets local regulations.) Anyone have any comments on this?

[This message was edited by Ham KC2IRO on March 01, 2003 at 09:40 PM.]

38.2k · March 1, 2003

A cache doesn't have to look like litter...in fact it shouldn't. A properly hidden cache, whether a paint bucket, ammo box, or Gladware container should not be visible to the general public.

That being said, a cache hidden in a bird house isn't a bad idea (it's been done before). Heck, I found a cache a while ago that was inside a hollow, plastic owl. From a distance, it looked like an owl on a branch.

I see from your profile you found one cache near Troy (BTW, I love the Troy Brewing Co brewpub). For some reason, several hiders in the area use very large cache containers. It seems to be a regional thing, because from what I've experienced, the trend is that containers are getting smaller and smaller in most places.

[This message was edited by BrianSnat on March 02, 2003 at 03:41 AM.]

1.1k · March 1, 2003

try looking at this cache and see if that is what you looking for.

logscaler.

March 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:
A cache doesn't have to look like litter...in fact it shouldn't. A properly hidden cache, whether a paint bucket, ammo box, or Gladware container should not be visible to the general public.

That being said, a cache hidden in a bird house isn't a bad idea (it's been done before). Heck, I found a cache a while ago that was inside a hollow, plastic owl. From a distance, it looked like an owl on a branch.

I see from your profile you found one cache near Troy (BTW, I love the Troy Brewing Co brewpub). For some reason, several hiders in the area use very large cache containers. It seems to be a regional thing, because from what I've experienced, the trend is that containers are getting smaller and smaller.

[This message was edited by BrianSnat on March 01, 2003 at 08:58 PM.]

Thanks for the Great idea....I like that....Using a fake bird. Although it won't pass the Pa State parks regs(right now they want clear containers) it really something to consider. I like the idea of the large containers over the micros. A duck decoy may work very nicely in some of the areas I go....(i just wonder what the theft factor of the decoy would be?)

There is nothing like a Packrat who is a geocacher.

38.2k · March 1, 2003

quote:
A duck decoy may work very nicely in some of the areas I go....(i just wonder what the theft factor of the decoy would be?)

Well the fake owl lasted barely 2 months. Admittedly it was in a somewhat high traffic area...but I still don't understand why someone would steal something that would cost you 75 cents at a garage sale.

A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away. -Barry Goldwater

March 1, 2003

I placed a cache in a side opening bird house.

It was cheap and easy to build.

This wasn't the plan I used, but it is simular.

http://www.nabluebirdsociety.org/mtbox.htm

Or you can do a google search on side opening bluebird nesting box for other plans.

March 2, 2003

Birdhouse is a great idea but why not make it another 8 or 10 inches longer. That way the top can still function as a birdhouse and the bottom can house the cache. Push the cache up from the bottom and a couple clips hold it in.

Ham KC2IRO you are in my area so if you're going to do it let me know and I won't.

38.2k · March 2, 2003

quote:
Birdhouse is a great idea but why not make it another 8 or 10 inches longer. That way the top can still function as a birdhouse and the bottom can house the cache.

I think the residents may get a little ticked off every time someone came to visit the cache, esp. if they are on their eggs, or protecting thier young. Ever been dive bombed by a bird protecting its nest when you've accidently wandered too near? It can be a bit startling, esp. when its something big like a Canadian Goose.

A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away. -Barry Goldwater

[This message was edited by BrianSnat on March 02, 2003 at 01:59 PM.]

March 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Rusty O Junk:
That way the top can still function as a birdhouse and the bottom can house the cache.

This was talked about in another thread with some good suggestions... Don't let the birdhouse be functional! If birds nest there, then humans frequent it and disturb the nest, the parents are likely to abandon the chicks to perish.

Although the parents might try again elsewhere, you'll have inadvertantly killed a brood, and the parents might not have time to try again that year.

A better bet if want to do the birdhouse is to block the hole on the inside with a bit of wood painted black (so it still looks like a "normal" hole to passersby).

While you're at it, if you want to help blue birds recover, put up an actual, operational blue bird house appropriately as well!

(A less-trafficed area, on the edge of a field, facing South, on a post or pole [as compared to a tree] to avoid predation.)

Thanks (on behalf of the chicks),

Randy

3.1k · March 2, 2003

A cache in Oregon uses a fake birdhouse. It's well done. The opening is actually a black painted circle. I went around that thing in circles for several minutes before my wife spotted the false opening.

I hear voices.....and they don't like you!

2.3k · March 2, 2003

A local cache with a birdhouse used a black 35mm film canaster glued to the opening inside. It had a real hole with depth, but was blocked to birds or more likely hornets.

March 3, 2003

quote:
Don't let the birdhouse be functional! If birds nest there, then humans frequent it and disturb the nest, the parents are likely to abandon the chicks to perish.

You're right, I hadn't thought it that far through. I have several bird housed on my property and some have been there for many years. Maybe I'll replace one of the older ones with a new one. Then I can block and blacken the hole and have a well weathered birdhouse for the cache. Now to find a spot where it won't look out of place.

March 3, 2003

There are a few here that were done quite well.

This one has some pics in the logs

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=43166

The other asked you do not post pics but if it is like the other it should be nice also, have made plans on visiting the both on my next trip in the area.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=39655

The last was a big metal UFO, but it walked, not sure what replaced it.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=25462

http://img.Groundspeak.com/cache/log/668418_200.jpg

Car37 & Shnde

March 3, 2003

I saw a cache in which a tiny bird house hung from a tree at the first set of coordinates. On it were numbers that completed the coordinates for the next stage. I don't believe this bird house was functional but it could have been since you didn't have to touch the thing to get the necessary information.

1.5k · March 3, 2003

this is a photo of a local cache which is inside a "fake" birdhouse:

http://groupware.zorcat.com/~jmc/2002/june/11/DSC02760.JPG

March 3, 2003

There is a cache owner out here that has at least two (that I know of) fake birdhouses which are "sign only" caches. Not so difficult this time of year, but I imagine with some leaves on the trees, these will be a little more exciting. According to his logs, he plans to build more and make them increasingly difficult.

March 3, 2003

Somehow I get this image of dead birds all around the fake birdhouse because they dove for the "opening".

Frankly, I don't see any problem with a dual-functioning birdhouse if it is done right. If the bird likes it, then fine. If they don't like it because of all the traffic, they won't move in. I just don't see a bird moving in right away, laying eggs, and then being hit by a bunch of traffic that wasn't there before.

Birds aren't all that fragile, and keeping them from nesting in inappropriate human areas is quite a challenge. If you don't mess with the nest and eggs themselves, they'll be OK.

After all, they have to deal with frequent visitors such as racoons, squirrels, snakes, and other critters.

The only problem I could see is if an endangered species moves in, but I think it would bother the tree huggers more than the bird.

George

3.1k · March 4, 2003

IANAO (I am not an ornithologist) but I question how much a bird would be bothered by people opening a separate comparment adjacent to their house. I've seen a cache like this, placed by the park and filled with info about the kind of bird that stayed there. I find it hard to believe the park would endanger the birds so deliberately. We have birds building nests above our front door, how much can it bother them? I have a friend who has spent the last several summers drawing blood from baby bluebirds living in university-placed birdhouses, and they did fine.

"Winter's just the curtain. Spring will take the bow"

-- Richard Shindell, Spring

March 4, 2003

I have been considering using a fake hornet nest with cache inside. wonder how that would work??

I'm a man and I can change if I have to,I guess.

3.1k · March 4, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Jacksons:
I have been considering using a fake hornet nest with cache inside. wonder how that would work??

I don't know if you're serious, but I think that's a great idea! Just expect a lot of angry Not Founds: "Huge hornet nest right at the coords! Should be archived!" And make sure there aren't any real ones in the area of course. "The hint says it's a hornet nest. Hmm, let's try that one first..." A local cacher uses pretzel jars for most of his caches, that would be perfect.

"Winter's just the curtain. Spring will take the bow"

-- Richard Shindell, Spring

March 4, 2003

I am serious,and I have the jar would make a great base for the nest I like it.I think your right about getting angry msgs, but it takes a dedicated cacher to check something like this out

I'm a man and I can change if I have to,I guess.

March 4, 2003

Why not put a cache up in a tree maybe like 20' in a large nest of leaves and branches that looks like a squirrels or other like animals. As for the animals if you were to leave some hidden article of clothing or something with human sent on it in the nest most animals would leave that nest alone.

March 4, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by nincehelser:
Somehow I get this image of dead birds all around the fake birdhouse because they dove for the "opening".

Birds are smarter than that (although large glass windows are hard for them to perceive and they DO frequently fly into them. They get stunned and should be left alone typically--not killed/wounded.

When they fly to a box they land on the edge of the opening then hop in (you want to fly right into your offspring and crush them?)

quote:
Frankly, I don't see any problem with a dual-functioning birdhouse if it is done right. If the bird likes it, then fine. If they don't like it because of all the traffic, they won't move in. I just don't see a bird moving in right away, laying eggs, and then being hit by a bunch of traffic that wasn't there before.

But this is EXACTLY the case--they have monday-friday of no human activity to nest build, then a weekend of hikers, lay eggs, then next weekend are disturbed by cachers! Meanwhile the site wasn't touched all winter... I can remember as a kid going away for a week vacation, upon our return we found wrens had started nesting in the corner of our deck!

quote:
Birds aren't all that fragile, and keeping them from nesting in inappropriate human areas is quite a challenge. If you don't mess with the nest and eggs themselves, they'll be OK.

That's a sweeping generalization that simply isn't true! It seems you take "birds" for granted. How many species do you think there are in your neck of the woods? How many endangered? How many threatened? (For the record, there are over 200 bird species in Connecticut alone.) Simply walking your dog on the beach is enough for Piping Plovers to abandon the nest hidden yards away! Nevermind the 4th of July when tons of people hit the beaches to watch fireworks... (Yes, these birds nest on the GROUND at beaches...)

Some birds aren't as sensitive. Other birds are TREMENDOUSLY "fragile". Other birds are more fragile at times than others. (Great Blue Herons around here are totally shy, but down in the Florida keys you can nearly walk up to one!)

However, you don't have total control over what bird chooses your dual-box. Most of the bird box plans on the web are for Blue Birds, which used to be endangered but have made an amazing comeback due to nest boxes.

If you make a fake box--you do control things completely and guarantee no negative impact (without diminishing the cache). Why gamble when you can be sure?

Randy

March 4, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Dinoprophet:
IANAO (I am not an ornithologist) but I question how much a bird would be bothered by people opening a separate comparment adjacent to their house. I've seen a cache like this, placed by the park and filled with info about the kind of bird that stayed there. I find it hard to believe the park would endanger the birds so deliberately. We have birds building nests above our front door, how much can it bother them? I have a friend who has spent the last several summers drawing blood from baby bluebirds living in university-placed birdhouses, and they did fine.

On the question of how much a bird would be bothered--depends on the species.

The cache at the park was probably housing House Sparrows, an invasive species from Europe that willingly accepts humans (I had some nest in my attic before I screened off the vent). Then they tried nesting over the motion-sensor light of the front door. These are the birds you frequently find flying about Home Depot.

When you check bluebird boxes (something typically done to monitor predation and drive out other species that like the blue bird box...) you typically follow a procedure designed to minimize the impact such as:

1. Don't open until the eggs hatch as to not stress/bother the bird. If it leaves the nest too long and the eggs cool too much, the brood is lost.

2. If they've hatched, wait for the parents to leave the nest to forage before even approaching.

3. Approach quietly, open the box slowly and count how many chicks there are or BRIEFLY perform whatever procedure you are undertaking--keeping said activity as short as possible.

4. Close everything and quietly walk away.

5. Don't disturb the nest again that day (certainly, perhaps making sure it's undisturbed up to a week or longer depending on species).

Now obviously, there are no hard and fast rules, and I'm not a professional ornithologist, just a lifelong birder (and I've worked with the US Fish & Wildlife service monitor Piping Plovers & Least Terns), but this demonstrates some of the factors under consideration.

As compared to the shouts of, "It's over here!" and "Look how brilliant--a bird box." While the excited parents are flying around scolding the cachers trying to drive them off, "Look how friendly the birds are--they're singing for us." When a parent dive-bombs them to drive them away, "Wow, they don't mind us here at all and are just flying around like we're not even here!"

What's the shortest amount of time you spend at a cache, if it's part of a multi and you're writing the coords it won't take too long, but if it's an actual cache, between writing in the log and trading I don't think I've ever spent less than half-an-hour. As I time my cache trips w/my palm, I'm always surprised when I get back to the car that the find took only twenty from car to cache but I've returned to the car over an hour later!

Quite frankly, if I was caching and came upon a cache that birds had inadvertently nested near, I'd probably wait until Fall to claim it and email the owner suggesting it's temporarily disabled if its a species in need of assistance.

Randy

PS: Why create a potential problem when it's even easier to avoid it?

March 4, 2003

quote:
Birds are smarter than that (although large glass windows are hard for them to perceive and they DO frequently fly into them. They get stunned and should be left alone typically--not killed/wounded.

It was a joke, son. Sheesh.

quote:
But this is EXACTLY the case--they have monday-friday of no human activity to nest build, then a weekend of hikers, lay eggs, then next weekend are disturbed by cachers! Meanwhile the site wasn't touched all winter... I can remember as a kid going away for a week vacation, upon our return we found wrens had started nesting in the corner of our deck!

But that is not EXACTLY the case. First off, caches are hit the entire week. Granted, there may be a more on the weekend, but it isn't restricted to that time period. Haven't been touched all winter? Get real.

I remember leaving my house one morning and having new wren nest in the entry light to my house when I returned in the evening. It didn't seem to mind that I was turning the light on-and-off, let alone people going in-and-out of the doorway. It rasied a compete family.

quote:
That's a sweeping generalization that simply isn't true! It seems you take "birds" for granted.

Just as your sweeping generalization that birds are fragile isn't true.

quote:
How many species do you think there are in your neck of the woods? How many endangered? How many threatened? (For the record, there are over 200 bird species in Connecticut alone.) Simply walking your dog on the beach is enough for Piping Plovers to abandon the nest hidden yards away! Nevermind the 4th of July when tons of people hit the beaches to watch fireworks... (Yes, these birds nest on the GROUND at beaches...)

So they picked an inappropriate spot. Tough. I assume they don't move if another preditor walks on the beach, or is it just dogs they don't like?

If it's a protected area, that's one thing. If it isn't, then the birds must rely on their own wits to survive.

quote:
However, you don't have total control over what bird chooses your dual-box. Most of the bird box plans on the web are for Blue Birds, which used to be endangered but have made an amazing comeback due to nest boxes.

If you make a fake box--you do control things completely and guarantee no negative impact (without diminishing the cache). Why gamble when you can be sure?

Let me get this straight. I can put out a bird house that no bird can use, and therefore derive no benefit, or I could put out a bird house that many birds *could* use with no ill effect.

I find it silly that one wouldn't put up a bird house for fear it might be used by a wimpy bird. Many other birds would appreciate the habitat.

Just in case you think I'm unkind to birds, I've spent considerable time rescuing and rehabilitating injured birds such as owls, ducks, and assorted other birds. I'm no expert, but I'm also not one to be cowed by environmentalist tripe.

George

March 4, 2003

We're talking about a *SEPERATE* compartment. No one would be messing with the nest, and no one will be touching the eggs.

If the bird is so fragile that it can't handle human proximity, then it shouldn't be nesting there in the first place.

A bird house is built by humans. As such, it is reasonable to expect that humans may be nearby.

George

March 4, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by nincehelser:

A bird house is built by humans. As such, it is reasonable to expect that humans may be nearby.

George

Um, you're expecting higher reasoning powers from a bird? Not even a lot of people are that competent...

Ron/yumitori

2.4k · March 4, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by nincehelser:

But that is not EXACTLY the case. First off, caches are hit the entire week. Granted, there may be a more on the weekend, but it isn't restricted to that time period. Haven't been touched all winter? Get real.

Get real? Maybe in your area caches get hit on a nearly daily basis, but try some central-PA zip code searches. There are caches around here that were last found last summer. I recall some that haven't been found in almost a year. Many get like one visit every month or so. Some will go for a month without a find, then get hit several times in a week....

I'm lost. I've gone to find myself. If I should happen to get back before I return, please ask me to wait.

38.2k · March 4, 2003

quote:
Frankly, I don't see any problem with a dual-functioning birdhouse if it is done right. If the bird likes it, then fine. If they don't like it because of all the traffic, they won't move in. I just don't see a bird moving in right away, laying eggs, and then being hit by a bunch of traffic that wasn't there before

Come on, you people aren't seriously in favor of placing a cache in an active birdhouse? Nothing like going out of your way to give more ammo to the enviro-nazis who are trying to put the kebosh on our sport. Have a little common sense man!

A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away. -Barry Goldwater

March 4, 2003

I'm seriously saying that, if done right, it will be no problem. A specially designed cache with isolation between the cache and nest area will work just fine.

I guess some of you haven't dealt too much with birds. It really isn't that much of an issue if approached with common sense.

George

March 4, 2003

If they haven't been hit over a year, then what's the deal with the "disturbance" issue?

Not many birds are tending nests in winter anyway...the eggs tend to freeze solid.

Boy, I bet you guys would really go nuts over a fake egg cache in a chicken coop.

George

3k · March 5, 2003

Fake birdhouse ok. Active birdhouse, no cache.

If you want a cache less visible something like this. A visit to the craft shop will provide all you need, along with a visit to your local store for a rubbermaid container with screw on lid.

Cache you later,

Planet

I feel much more like I do now than when I first got here.

March 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by nincehelser:
It was a joke, son. Sheesh.

Yeah George, and I enjoyed it, but that doesn't prohibit me from sharing more info and further contributing to the conversation too!

{grin}

quote:
Just as your sweeping generalization that birds are fragile isn't true.

(That's not something I ever said, for the record, I qualified it with "some", "other birds", "at times than others" and gave examples of very robust birds.) But you can't control which pick your provided housing.

On your separate point that birds should avoid human proximity--they can't (although they try). Over 270 million people just here in the US totally outnumber and overwhelm any individual bird species.

I'd simply ask that if you want to help avian life, let them nest elsewhere rather than "baiting" them to a locale that has risks associated with it.

Thanks,

Randy

PS: As always, you're still welcome to do as you wish {wink}! I'm just sharing some real ramifications of such.

March 5, 2003

...and your worries are unfounded.

I just don't understand those who would deny habitat because it they can't control what uses it.

Nor those who pooh-pooh an idea without even seeing the application.

Again, it's just rabid environmental tripe. If you take your argument far enough, there would be no caches, because they all in some way could be aruged a disruption to wildlife. Heck, you better stay home or you might scare a bird. Sheesh.

George

Geocaches that don't look like trash (bird house cache)

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