ID poisonous plants....

May 13, 2003

Does anyone know where I can download and print a card with identification info on poison ivy, oak, sumac, etc on it to carry with my geocaching gear???? Would like to give one to every family member as a reminder while out in the woods.

38.2k · May 13, 2003

No print cards, but here are some websites that may help you identify the plants. There was one very good one that I found last year and I'm still trying to track it down. If I find the link, I'll post it here.

http://poisonivy.aesir.com/view/welcome.html

http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Bistro/3128/menu.html

http://directory.google.com/Top/Recreation/Outdoors/Wildlife/Plants/Poison_Ivy,_Oak,_and_Sumac/

http://www.ivyjoy.com/rayne/ivylinks.html

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln

May 13, 2003

I think I need something like actual leaves laminated in a plastic card for positive ID.

I seem to be immune to poison ivy and poison oak. Either that or I'm just real lucky. I've been trying to find such plants so I can get a positive ID, and to see if I'm really immune.

So far I've had no luck. I've seen plants that I think might be poison ivy/oak (at least it looks like the pictures), but rubbing them on the back of my hand seems to cause no reaction.

Of course, I don't know if it really was poison ivy. Sometime I'll have to take someone more sensative along for a test case

George

May 13, 2003

Here's a pic of poison oak in the springtime (on the way to one of my caches). Lately I have seen it both in red or green depending on whether the locale is warm/dry or cool/wet.

1.3k · May 13, 2003

I've had a lot of fun using Peterson's field guides. They have a very simple classification sysem, and are available for everything from rocks and minerals to edible wild plants. Here is a guide for poisonous plants and animals. Very useful.

"Searching with my good eye closed"

May 13, 2003

Thanks for the help..... I was just looking to see if I could find a small card with them on.

May 13, 2003

Man, don't try that "I'll rub it on my hand to see" trick. I'm so sensitive that merely picking up a leaf for a couple seconds using my thumb and forefinger eventually led to it getting all over my face, and but for some steroid treatments my face was almost swollen shut. Do NOT do that kind of field test.

Also, I still remember a good rule from Boy Scouts: Leaflets three, let it be. Berries white, poisonous site. I don't remember if Johnny Cochran came up with that one.

May 13, 2003

Well, it's not like I WANT to get itchy. But I really want to be able to get a positive ID.

The way things are now, I could be leading my kids through poison ivy/oak and never know the difference. I've no idea if they have any immunity.

All I know is that I've spent years tromping around the woods, but have never had any problem with the poison stuff...except nettles. Those I can easily identify through painful experience!

When I was a kid, my dad took some kind of "medicine" that supposedly would give you immunity. He had me take it, too. I've no idea if that had anything to do with it. Thinking back, it seems like it might have been some homeopathic nonsense.

George

1k · May 13, 2003

This site like the others gives a pic and description. With a little work, you could copy the pics and text and make your own poison plant cards. Laminating them could be costly, but you could use clear packing tape to seal them for at least a years use.

TEAM SHIBBY!!!!

Krs, Kar & Na

May 13, 2003

Blazer, I quite like this site. It doesn't have printable cards, but they do sell a poster and have plenty of images available online, along with a lot of information, all with a healthy dose of humor.

____________________________

I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel.

When you walk through a storm, hold your head up high,

And don't be afraid of the dark

www.bookcrossing.com Read and Release!

May 14, 2003

Nincehelser, I would not take your current resistance to poision ivy for granted. I used to be immune also. It does not last. I think it may have some cumulative effect. I had spent my whole life romping about in the woods without a care for poision ivy. Then about 5 years ago, I got into some, and had a reaction. I now blister up whenever I come in contact with the stuff.

Aladin Sane

October 6, 2003

We are considering producing a field guide such as the one suggested here. The plan is to show PI in most of its forms and habitats, with specimens collected and scanned, not just photographed.

It is amazing just how many ways this plant can look. Since many of our cacher friends are PI-ID-challenged, we decided this would be a good idea.

We intend for the final product to be waterproof and compact, with a section on detox procedures and early and late remedies. Peterson's field guide is good but incomplete and does not give the reader a definitive sense of what it really can look like. It is somewhat bulky as well; too big for the fanny-pack cache-bag we carry.

Anyone interested?

Thanks

astrojr1&G-O-GardenerGal

October 6, 2003

I am poison plant ID challenged as well. Even after looking at pictures on the web, I don't think I will be able to recognize one while bushwacking in the woods looking for a cache. I try to stay away for 3 leafed plants to be sure. Are all white berry plants poisonous? Is it the white berries or the leaves of these plants? Or do white berries tell me that the plant is a poison ivy or oak? See, I told you I'm not too bright when it comes to plants

October 6, 2003

We have found that if we wipe off with babywipes after we cache' we don't get the rash or get less of it. We know what the plants are and if someone in our crew sees it we wipe. No way to know forsure if it works, but when we first starting caching, I was getting poison ivy everytime, haven't had it since I wipe with wipes.

4.8k · October 6, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by opie744:
We have found that if we wipe off with babywipes after we cache' we don't get the rash or get less of it. We know what the plants are and if someone in our crew sees it we wipe. No way to know forsure if it works, but when we first starting caching, I was getting poison ivy everytime, haven't had it since I wipe with wipes.

I think the babywipe is just a placebo. They have a soap out called Tecnu that is supposed to work well if you use it as soon after exposure as possible. Firefighters in our area use it, but not always succesfully.

Be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them. The rest go geocaching.

4.4k · October 6, 2003

I use the National Audubon Society Field Guides to North American:

Mushrooms

Wildflowers

Poision Plants

These have photos of all the plants,animals,minerals,fossils fish,mushrooms etc......

WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS

*GEOTRYAGAIN*

TAKE PRIDE IN AMERICA

http://www.doi.gov/news/front_current.html

1803-2003

"LOUSIANA PURCHASE"

http://www.lapurchase.org

"LEWIS AND CLARK EXPADITION"

http://lewisclark.geog.missouri.edu/index

Arkansas Missouri Geocachrs Association

http://www.ARK-MOGeocachersAssociatoin@msnusers.com

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ark-Mo-Geocachers

9.5k · October 6, 2003

I put together a Word document this past summer for my purposes. You're welcome to download from here until the bandwidth quits. When it does, just post and I'll move it to a new location.

Cheers!

TL

October 7, 2003

I'd be interested. Let me know what happens. Have you thought of maybe doing it in a couple of sizes so the pictures could be larger for the older challenged eyes?

9.5k · October 7, 2003

Just click on the underlined linked word "here" and you will be able to open or save the document. Click Save, and then open it on your hard drive. You will then be able to adjust the picture and text size to your content. It is MS Word. I can convert it to other formats if that is the desire, but this will take me a couple days as my time is already committed to other projects.

Cheers!

TL

2.3k · October 7, 2003

Thanks TL! Looks good!

---------------------------------------------------

Free your mind and the rest will follow

And may no Admin bricks fly your way

October 7, 2003

I live in Central California, where poison oak is abundant. Since it tends to colonize disturbed sites, it is often most abundant along trailsides and road culverts.

A few thoughts: never take immunity for granted. You might want to think of my cousin, who as a boy sought to prove that he was immune by stuffing his Jockeys with fresh growth. He was decidedly not immune.

The problem with ID cards is manifold. First, these plants are very variable in habit. Sometimes it appears as a climbing vine. Sometimes it's a dense shrub or even small tree. Some of it turns crimson while other plants nearby are still bright green. Sometimes its leaves are shiny and sometimes they are not. Sometimes it has clusters of berries, and sometimes not. Finally, it is deciduous, and one of the worst cases I ever got came from wading through a thicket of bare stems in the dark.

All that said, it is an easy plant to identify once someone has pointed it out to you a few times. Field ID of just about anything is much easier this way than trying to key it out on your own. There are things to look for -- the old "leaflets three" admonition being one of them (as long as it has leaves, that is).

Once you're familiar with it, you won't need to remember your cards, or to remember to refer to them every time you approach a suspicious clump of foliage.

I'm no botanist, but I can sort through many of our edible, and all of our particularly toxic, native plants. Just look for someone whose skills you trust. They'll be happy to show you some. If Illinois is anything like Norcal, there will be plenty of examples within five minutes of wherever you are!

It's around here somewhere...

October 7, 2003

The next time you visit a State Park, stop by the Nature Center and ask the Park Naturalist to go out in the woods with you and show you some. The best place to learn how to ID plants is in the woods.

October 7, 2003

How well I remember the time when I was camping as a teenager and forgot to bring TP. Those big green leaves sure did come in handy!

A note from experience... do not use poison oak as a substitute for TP!!!!!!!!

October 7, 2003

Okay here's the deal folks. WE can identify it just fine. We know how many many ways it can look. The kicker: We're not making it for PI-sensitive people as much as PI-INsensitive cachers. Case in point with the subjects of another popular thread:

Gallant, being PI sensitive, uses every precaution to avoid it before, while, and after caching.

Goofus, being not sensitive, proceeds directly through the PI, loading up on urushiol like pollen on a bee, while both hiding and finding caches and handling cache items. Goofus then leaves a trail of invisible urushiol everywhere he goes for awhile. But Goofus, while far from dumb and a generally OK guy, still has a hard time identifying PI simply because it's not on his radar; it's background; Goofus doesn't really have to care. Goofus half-apologetically smiles and tells Gallant that he still can't readily identify PI, despite a lot of up-close-and-personal experience. It's true; Gallant has seen the "PI Tromp" every single time they've been caching together. Experience being the mother of caution, Goofus isn't likely to change without a change of his antigens' attitude or without some kind of practical aid. Enter an effective yet practical field aid.

Not just to identify, but to help avoid it. Examples, you get thick PI at a woodline where it gets more sun. It thins significantly in the much shadier canopy. If you see a big hairy stem, trace it and find either Virginia Creeper or PI. It's more likely to look a certain way depending on the amount of sun, direction the woodline faces, characteristics of soil, season, characteristics of companion cover, and so forth.

Not just more pictures of PI; although that is important and many links on this page offer excellent pictures and information on PI. We want to make it easy - at the critical time - to at least take a stab at trying to avoid some of the PI you go through.

The downshot: There is probably not one person reading this thread who is PI-insensitive!

So how 'bout it - would this make a cool event cache present? Cache item? Boot scraper? It'll be maybe 1 inch by 2 by 4 inches. Simple simple. But not just memorizing facts, or even concepts, but linking concepts. Most of the material we've seen is mostly pictures, warnings, and treatment. We want to take another step.

BTW can we use some of your quotes on this thread?

Thanks

astrojr1&G-O-GardenerGal

October 8, 2003

quote:
With a little work, you could copy the pics and text and make your own poison plant cards. Laminating them could be costly, but ....

Kinko's. To laminate an 11x17 sheet is $3.00

They also have "ID Size" cards for less.

What I'd suggest, print out what you like, go there ( or another simular shop ) cut out the pics ( you can even print them there if you don't have a color printer )

lay them out in the laminate, allow 1/4" over lap for the laminate, then cut out the id pictures, with a 1/8" boarder for each.

If you have a publishing program like Microsoft Word (there are plenty of others), you can use a label template to print out the images too.

Just remember a gap between the images/id so the laminate can bond to itself.

October 9, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Touchstone:

quote:
Originally posted by opie744:
We have found that if we wipe off with babywipes after we cache' we don't get the rash or get less of it. We know what the plants are and if someone in our crew sees it we wipe. No way to know forsure if it works, but when we first starting caching, I was getting poison ivy everytime, haven't had it since I wipe with wipes.

I think the babywipe is just a placebo. They have a soap out called Tecnu that is supposed to work well if you use it as soon after exposure as possible. Firefighters in our area use it, but not always succesfully.

Working for a few years at a Nature Center Daycamp we had daily run ins with poison ivy. Another soap that works just as good as the Tecnu (brown stuff, right?) is good ole Ivory bar soap. Use it ASAP and it neutralizes the oils.

October 9, 2003

The problem with making a card is that poison oak has many looks. it can be a vine or a shrub, it goes from bright, shiny green to dull red and brown. I've got it twice from bare stems.

It would probably be more beneficial if you stopped and showed it to your kids every time that you ran across it. then make a game out of having them point it out to you (that's POINT, not PICK) If that doesn't work, just let them get it once, they then will never forget .

regarding the technu discussion, Technu is good because it's a very strong alkaline soap, but if that's not around, any soap or detergent is better than doing nothing. You have about 15 minutes to wash off the Urushiol after contact, so use whatever you have.

I picked up a bottle of Zanfel after my last attack, but fortunately I haven't required it's services yet. Zanfel is supposed to be a cure after the symptoms appear, long after exposure. I'll get back to you when I use it.

Mickey

Max Entropy

More than just a name, a lifestyle.

9.5k · October 9, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by ricnic:

Working for a few years at a Nature Center Daycamp we had daily run ins with poison ivy. Another soap that works just as good as the Tecnu (brown stuff, right?) is good ole Ivory bar soap. Use it ASAP and it neutralizes the oils.

I can attest to the Tecnu. I was infected earlier this year and it immediately took the itching away as well as neutralized the oils. Applied liberally and frequently and the rash went from an angry weepy boily rash to nothingness in less than 10 days.

They call PI and PO the great imitator plant as it takes shape and color of whatever nearby host is handy. The first telltale to go by is the 3 leaf cluster. There are vines out there that will imitate the PI as well, but it has a 3 leaf and 2 leaf cluster. You have to look carefully to catch it.

Cheers!

TL

October 10, 2003

Poison Ivy is real easy to identify right now. It's the clusters of knee high red plants on the woods floor, or the red vines that are woven up the tree trunks. The leaves of poison ivy turn red this time of year. Recognize the shape and pattern of the leaves and you'll be able to spot them next year.

That Quack Cacher:

Lone Duck

When you don't know where you're going, every road will take you there.

October 12, 2003

The world is a big place. Some places it doesn't get cold enough to turn the leaves red. Depending on the amount of sun, length of season, kind of plants nearby, and the density of all plants, it could be anywhere from 1 inch to 6 feet tall, with woody/twiggy, hairy/viny, or smooth/viny, with few to many branches/twigs, with or without leaves, red or green leaves, smooth or textured leaves, smooth or lobed edges, big or small leaves, and many other differences. Yes. We really do realize this. Our "next step" will account (hopefully) for these variances. Hey, maybe that's a good name for it: "next step", as in, be *aware* of where your next step will take you - for some, "into the PI" is as obvious as "off a cliff", but for some...a PI patch looks like a good place to step, and even place a cache! OH THE HUMANITY.

astrojr1&G-O-GardenerGal

October 12, 2003

I am the 'GOOFUS' in the above mentioned thread. I am totally PI challenged. 'Gallant has told me numerous times what PI is. I even had a couple times when I actually thought of him and asked him if there was any about. I got the reply...'YOUR'E STANDING IN IT !!! I have hidden numerous caches unknowingly in or near PI patches. I even tied a string for a cache to a PI vine...though I thought I knew what that was and that there wasn't the need to contact the vine for the cache. If Gallant would post the picture of my 'Cow Pie' cache showing the PI, that is a 'GOOFUS' move.

Not that I want to place caches in PI spots, but man...that stuff changes its' look in so many different ways, I can't keep track of it.

October 14, 2003

See? See?! That's what I'm talkin' about! Here is one of Goofus's caches. The cache is behind the black spot!

astrojr1&G-O-GardenerGal

[This message was edited by astrojr1&G-O-GardenerGal on October 14, 2003 at 03:02 PM.]

October 14, 2003

A quick "search" of the internet offered many types of cards...such as these:

http://vitalvillage.net/gamecards/

They may be too simple for some, but sound like they may be effective. I too, like the Field Guides...

Never say Never...Never say Always!

ID poisonous plants....

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