Needing to use private email to get permission to log

[+Goldenwattle]

I am in Europe and I am finding that some Virtual caches, and today an Earthcache, required me to email an answer to which I then received permission to log. I object to needing to use a private email address to do this. I could not use the email address for geocaching. I don't think this should be allowed, as it's a breach of privacy. Fortunately in my case, I have an old, email address with another name, but not everyone would.

Why does this get past the reviewers?

I am Goldenwattle here. Why should someone be expected to use a private email address with their real name?

Edited June 1, 2023 by Goldenwattle

[+thebruce0]

Create a gmail account for spam use. Simple.

I have a private email and more than one alternate email, and I used to be more vigilant about not using my personal in questionable locations to minimize spam, but it still comes in. Now I just white-list trusted emails and visually scan and trash anything else.

 

Nonetheless, it's always good to have a secondary non-personal email. And this is a perfect use for it.

[+MartyBartfast]

I didn't think they could require that. I thought that you can either send them a message through the message system, or send a mail to the CO via their profile page, which allows you to NOT send your Email address to them.

If it was me I'd use one of those and log it anyway, if they delete the find because they don't like the way you sent the mail then appeal it.

 

[+Max and 99]

15 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

I am in Europe and I am finding that some Virtual caches, and today an Earthcache, required me to email an answer to which I then received permission to log. I object to needing to use a private email address to do this. I could not use the email address for geocaching. I don't think this should be allowed, as it's a breach of privacy. Fortunately in my case, I have an old, email address with another name, but not everyone would.

Why does this get past the reviewers?

I am Goldenwattle here. Why should someone be expected to use a private email address with their real name?

From the Help center:

3.6. Log an EarthCache or a Virtual Cache

Read the cache page to learn the logging requirements for any EarthCache or Virtual Cache. You must visit an EarthCache site or Virtual Cache in person and, in most cases, answer questions to claim the find. Send your answers by email or Message Center directly to the cache owner. (Note: cache owners cannot require information to be sent through one particular tool.) Once you send your answers, you may log your find online before hearing back from the cache owner.

[Keystone]

Was the email address an autoresponder (permissible for Virtuals but not EarthCaches) or were you asked to interact directly with the Cache Owner via this email address (not permissible)?

[+Goldenwattle]

5 minutes ago, Keystone said:

Was the email address an autoresponder (permissible for Virtuals but not EarthCaches) or were you asked to interact directly with the Cache Owner via this email address (not permissible)?

autoresponder for both Virtual and Earthcache.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Goldenwattle

[+thebruce0]

...but to add, I do agree that I don't believe they can require you to email an address to log the EC. Just offering a patchwork solution (and general advice for similar situations ;P)

[Keystone]

Regarding Earthcaches with autoresponders, please see the FAQ on that subject, stating that this is no longer permitted from 1 January 2023.  There's no "grandfathering" for prior usage of autoresponders, but GeoAwares do not actively seek out those older Earthcaches.  You are welcome to raise a complaint about a particular Earthcache, if you'd like.

[+GeoElmo6000]

I use the geocaching messenger most times but if I have to send an email because someone refuses to use messenger for some dumb reason I just uncheck the box that sends my email address with it.  I'll copy myself instead (so I have a written record) and then go ahead and log it.  EZPZ.

[+thebruce0]

Yes, via messenger the website may send an email notifying the CO of the new message with its content, but the Email option via website, with your own email kept hidden, will go straight to their email account. I typically do Messenger only, because of the email notification the CO should get. If there's an issue, then I'd just do the Email form.

If they don't take either of those means, that's their problem.

[hsiale]

22 hours ago, Keystone said:

 the FAQ on that subject,

This FAQ is on an external website. Shouldn't all official geocaching rules and guidelines be published at geocaching.com?

[Keystone]

1 hour ago, hsiale said:

This FAQ is on an external website. Shouldn't all official geocaching rules and guidelines be published at geocaching.com?

Since the GSA oversees the Earthcache program and guidelines, this should not be an Issue.  And, the GSA website is linked from both the Geocache Hiding Guidelines and from the Geocaching.com Help Center.  Those links get the reader to the proper pages.

[+JL_HSTRE]

I'm surprised auto-responders are or were a thing for Virtuals or especially Earthcaches. Partly because I don't recall encountering any. But moreso because there are very few with short, consistent answers that an auto-responder could handle.

 

The only auto-responders I recall encountering were part of a puzzle cache.

 

Since the Message Center was introduced I have submitted 100% of my Virtual and Earthcache answers through it.

[+barefootjeff]

3 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:

I'm surprised auto-responders are or were a thing for Virtuals or especially Earthcaches. Partly because I don't recall encountering any. But moreso because there are very few with short, consistent answers that an auto-responder could handle.

 

All AL stages, with the exception of multi-choice question ones, are essentially auto-responders. The ones I've encountered on virtuals use a concatenation of keywords found on signage at the location(s) to form the email address.

Edited June 2, 2023 by barefootjeff
Spelling

[+JL_HSTRE]

2 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

 

All AL stages, with the exception of multi-choice question ones, are essentially auto-responders. The ones I've encountered on virtuals use a concatenation of keywords found on signage at the location(s) to form the email address.

 

Yes, and so is Certitude.

 

I have certainly found some old Virtuals with brief, sometimes one word or one number answers. However, not many and I would describe most of those as poorly constructed and usually easy to cheat.

 

Earthcaches nearly always have multiple questions. At least one is usually several words or otherwise open to some interpretation; sometimes all.

[+Phronimos]

I encountered my first Autoresponder Virtual just this last month after ten years geocaching.

I had to respond with something like GC8P5AC.ABCABCABCA2016atgmail

I thought that was very clever and was pleased I didn’t have to wait for a response from the CO and could correct my answers while still at the location.

 

[+terratin]

Whenever someone asks me to send EC answers to an email, possibly with autoresponder then I still send the answers via message center. Hey, ECs are meant to be about education, and just saying 3(rd word on info sign)D(option)grey(colour)@gmail.com has nothing to do with an EC and education. Plus I'm not giving anyone my email address.

[+Mausebiber]

19 minutes ago, terratin said:

Plus I'm not giving anyone my email address

 

If you are not giving your email address to anyone, you will never receive an email from anyone.  Is this the intent of email?

[+Mysterion604]

I've found this an issue with some virtuals and earthcaches as well.

Some people write "email me the answers" in the cache description, and what they really mean is "use the Geocaching message system".

Other people write "email me the answers" in the cache description, and what they really mean is "email the answers to an actual email address".

I do not like doing the latter too much, but I have only seen a couple of instances where it explicitly said "do not use the Geo messaging system" and I guess that is their clear preference. 

Perhaps this is a holdover from the earlier days?

[+JL_HSTRE]

17 hours ago, mysterion604 said:

I've found this an issue with some virtuals and earthcaches as well.

Some people write "email me the answers" in the cache description, and what they really mean is "use the Geocaching message system".

Other people write "email me the answers" in the cache description, and what they really mean is "email the answers to an actual email address".

I do not like doing the latter too much, but I have only seen a couple of instances where it explicitly said "do not use the Geo messaging system" and I guess that is their clear preference. 

Perhaps this is a holdover from the earlier days?

 

Some people haven't updated their cache descriptions and/or profile since the Message Center was introduced.

 

The only geocachers who can require you to use email instead of the Message Center are Reviewers, and that's just because of the sheer volume of messages they handle.

[+Mysterion604]

Since my last post I saw one cache listed where the CO said (in the cache description) they were unable to use the usual Geomessage system so please email them the answers. 

[+terratin]

16 minutes ago, mysterion604 said:

Since my last post I saw one cache listed where the CO said (in the cache description) they were unable to use the usual Geomessage system so please email them the answers. 

You can still use the old system without sending your email address along.

[+JL_HSTRE]

3 hours ago, mysterion604 said:

Since my last post I saw one cache listed where the CO said (in the cache description) they were unable to use the usual Geomessage system so please email them the answers. 

 

What system does the Message Center not work on?

[+Mysterion604]

On 6/19/2023 at 4:27 AM, JL_HSTRE said:

 

What system does the Message Center not work on?

 

I have no idea. It was the CO's instruction, not mine.

[+Hügh]

On 6/2/2023 at 11:27 AM, JL_HSTRE said:

I'm surprised auto-responders are or were a thing for Virtuals

 

Geocaching HQ's Virtual uses one for "immediate confirmation"; though as I understand it one must still send a Message Center/email message:

 

Quote

In the Play Barn, you will find an old compressor. It is labeled “In _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - Ra _ _ Im _ _ _ _ _ _ Ty _ _ 1 _”. Send the name to Geocaching HQ via the Geocaching Message Center or email.

For more immediate confirmation you can also send an email to compressornameabove@gmail.com [take the answer above, make it all lowercase, remove all spaces and dashes, add @gmail.com — example: if the compressor was called Signal-Frog Lily Pad 1, the email would be signalfroglilypad1@gmail.com].

 

(I could've sworn it was a @geocaching.com email but perhaps I am mistaken...)

[+paleolith]

On 6/1/2023 at 10:52 AM, Keystone said:

this is no longer permitted from 1 January 2023

 

1 January 2013   

[+Goldenwattle]

On 6/5/2023 at 3:43 AM, Mausebiber said:

 

If you are not giving your email address to anyone, you will never receive an email from anyone.  Is this the intent of email?

That's your choice who you email.

 

[+thebruce0]

Technically speaking, you could set up a proxy email that sends everything to a personal email. You could have email and never give out your private email address. But then ultimately it's kind of pointless because you're getting emails anyway, from an email address that is known out there. There's no point in having a 100% private, unknown email address. There is reason to have proxy email addresses so your personal email isn't connected to another identity (I do that for some special-purpose emails that just forward to my personal email).

 

So setting up alias emails? Perfectly reasonable.

Setting up an email to remain 100% confidential/private not known to anyone? Unrealistic.

imo.

[+Goldenwattle]

I have a separate email without my name on it, just Goldenwattle. It has worked at least once for a return email, but unfortunately for the last three I emailed, the emails failed. Luckily the COs accepted my message with an explanation that the email didn't work for me. Now knowing I can also message, that's what I will do in the future instead.

[+Deepdiggingmole]

Can a Virtual cache owner insist on answers being sent via only one of the communication methods such as messaging only and NOT email 
Also can a Virtual cache owner insist on a cacher waiting for a reply to answers sent before being allowed to log the find 

If this is the case both would seem to go against the logging guidelines for virtuals (as below) - relevant text to the two queries highlighted 

Or am I misunderstanding / misinterpreting the guidelines 

 

 

3.6. Log an EarthCache or a Virtual Cache

Read the cache page to learn the logging requirements for any EarthCache or Virtual Cache. You must visit an EarthCache site or Virtual Cache in person and, in most cases, answer questions to claim the find. Send your answers by email or Message Center directly to the cache owner. (Note: cache owners cannot require information to be sent through one particular tool.) Once you send your answers, you may log your find online before hearing back from the cache owner.