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Stop adventure labs

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Hello headquarters, I wonder who accepted the idea of combining the current adventure lab offering to geocaching. I would understand this kind of specialties connected to mega+ events but not the current inflation. These should be kept separate like Waymarking to avoid spoiling our fine hobby, its statistics etc.

Do you or your computer really plan to continue draw adventure credits to all old or new “geocachers” who happen to log some adventures or what is the idea? Sorry to say but it is idiotic anyway. In capital areas this leads to foolish amounts of "adventures".

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, Bow more said:

Hello headquarters, I wonder who accepted the idea of combining the current adventure lab offering to geocaching.

I would understand this kind of specialties connected to mega+ events but not the current inflation.

These should be kept separate like Waymarking to avoid spoiling our fine hobby, its statistics etc.

Do you or your computer really plan to continue draw adventure credits to all old or new “geocachers” who happen to log some adventures or what is the idea? Sorry to say but it is idiotic anyway. In capital areas this leads to foolish amounts of "adventures".

 

Maybe I don't get it, but curious... You've found 151, and had five published yourself.  What made you change your views now

Thanks.    :)

 

We agree that "adventure labs" aren't like geocaching as we know it.  We didn't do any "regular" labs at events either.  

 - At that time it messed with the other 2/3rd's stats.   ;)

We were told that labs were an experimental thing, and now to have them count as finds (for every stage done...) doesn't make much sense (to us).

Especially when some can be done without ever leaving the house...

 

But we still have friends who believe the doom n gloom on the news, and won't leave their houses yet, and we don't blame them for that...

If there's some way they can still sorta play, if nothing else but to take their mind off whatever issues they feel they currently have, I don't think that's a bad thing.

We've seen how some come by numbers, and stats haven't meant anything to us in some time.

If folks are concerned about what this cache type is doing to their stats, isn't it easiest to just skip 'em ? 

 

Edited by cerberus1
double don't
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2 hours ago, Bow more said:

Hello headquarters, I wonder who accepted the idea of combining the current adventure lab offering to geocaching. I would understand this kind of specialties connected to mega+ events but not the current inflation. These should be kept separate like Waymarking to avoid spoiling our fine hobby, its statistics etc.

 

The awarding of a "find" for each stage of an AL bothers me as it diminishes the meaning of a find. The closest thing to an AL in regular caching is a multi with virtual waypoints but to claim a find on that you have to overcome all the obstacles the CO has placed in your way and complete the task of getting your name in the logbook. It is the whole adventure that makes the find memorable, not each individual bit of it. The current system of "finds" for each waypoint that count in some statistics but not others and don't contribute to FPs seems way too ad-hoc and cumbersome. Either ALs should be fully integrated, with scoring comensurate with other similar caches (multis or wherigos) or a completely separate game.

 

2 hours ago, Bow more said:

Do you or your computer really plan to continue draw adventure credits to all old or new “geocachers” who happen to log some adventures or what is the idea? Sorry to say but it is idiotic anyway. In capital areas this leads to foolish amounts of "adventures".

 

The method used to allocate ALs to only those who have completed some number of them is leading to regional disparity. Those places that have a fair number of them get more and more, as more people qualify to create them, but other regions where there are none will stay empty because no-one will be able to qualify, at least not without undertaking considerable travel. I'm on the New South Wales Central Coast, a region between Sydney to the south where there are lots of ALs and Newcastle to the north where the numbers are steadily increasing, but until just a few weeks ago there were none here and now there's ONE!

 

686884994_Screenshot_20200826-102939_AdventureLab.jpg.888845ad6615ecfc69122ea9fd802df0.jpg

 

I can't help wondering if, when Adventures stop being labs and go mainstream, what there'll be to stop them having all the same problems as the proliferation of old virtuals had. Even more so as ALs aren't reviewed and there's no saturation limit.

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2 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

The awarding of a "find" for each stage of an AL bothers me as it diminishes the meaning of a find. The closest thing to an AL in regular caching is a multi with virtual waypoints but to claim a find on that you have to overcome all the obstacles the CO has placed in your way and complete the task of getting your name in the logbook. It is the whole adventure that makes the find memorable, not each individual bit of it. The current system of "finds" for each waypoint that count in some statistics but not others and don't contribute to FPs seems way too ad-hoc and cumbersome. Either ALs should be fully integrated, with scoring comensurate with other similar caches (multis or wherigos) or a completely separate game.

 

Agree 100%

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I moved this thread from the Geocaching Topics forum.

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3 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

If there's some way they can still sorta play, if nothing else but to take their mind off whatever issues they feel they currently have, I don't think that's a bad thing.

 

Logging from home is against the guidelines but a Adventure Cache Owner can't delete those logs.

 

1 hour ago, barefootjeff said:

 

The awarding of a "find" for each stage of an AL bothers me as it diminishes the meaning of a find. The closest thing to an AL in regular caching is a multi with virtual waypoints but to claim a find on that you have to overcome all the obstacles the CO has placed in your way and complete the task of getting your name in the logbook. It is the whole adventure that makes the find memorable, not each individual bit of it. The current system of "finds" for each waypoint that count in some statistics but not others and don't contribute to FPs seems way too ad-hoc and cumbersome. Either ALs should be fully integrated, with scoring comensurate with other similar caches (multis or wherigos) or a completely separate game.

 

 

The method used to allocate ALs to only those who have completed some number of them is leading to regional disparity. Those places that have a fair number of them get more and more, as more people qualify to create them, but other regions where there are none will stay empty because no-one will be able to qualify, at least not without undertaking considerable travel. I'm on the New South Wales Central Coast, a region between Sydney to the south where there are lots of ALs and Newcastle to the north where the numbers are steadily increasing, but until just a few weeks ago there were none here and now there's ONE!

 

686884994_Screenshot_20200826-102939_AdventureLab.jpg.888845ad6615ecfc69122ea9fd802df0.jpg

 

I can't help wondering if, when Adventures stop being labs and go mainstream, what there'll be to stop them having all the same problems as the proliferation of old virtuals had. Even more so as ALs aren't reviewed and there's no saturation limit.

100% agrees. They banned virtual for reasons they are completely ignoring with Adventures.

 

Please Groundspeak stop awarding more Adventure you are slowly killing the main game.

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It's nice to see this being discussed. It bothers me that a multitudes of 'finds' are awarded for completing an adventure when really no geocaches have been found at all. I'm not into stats, but I do like the fact that my 'found' total accurately reflects the number of geocaches that I have found. 

And yes, I do choose to ignore them for this reason. The downside to this though is that adventures often have a 'bonus cache' associated with them which is not findable without completing the adventure. 

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3 minutes ago, Mermaid.Man said:

It bothers me that a multitudes of 'finds' are awarded for completing an adventure when really no geocaches have been found at all. I'm not into stats, but I do like the fact that my 'found' total accurately reflects the number of geocaches that I have found. 

And yes, I do choose to ignore them for this reason.

 

By that logic, I assume you also ignore Webcam, Virtual, and Earth Caches as none ofvthem are real (physical) geocaches.

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5 minutes ago, JL_HSTRE said:

2. Each Lab, whether it has 1 question or 5, should count as 1 Find.

No. Think the 5 Lab caches as 5 Virtuals grouped into a themed AdLab. It's like GeoTours do it with standard caches where you obviously get a found credit for each cache. Why should 5 Virtuals not give 5 found credits?

 

Hans

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2 minutes ago, JL_HSTRE said:

 

By that logic, I assume you also ignore Webcam, Virtual, and Earth Caches as none ofvthem are real (physical) geocaches.

That's an unusual assumption to make. 

 

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22 minutes ago, HHL said:

No. Think the 5 Lab caches as 5 Virtuals grouped into a themed AdLab. It's like GeoTours do it with standard caches where you obviously get a found credit for each cache. Why should 5 Virtuals not give 5 found credits?

 

Hans

 

By that argument, each stage in a multi should also count as a find. After all, you're visiting a location and either answering a question or finding a physical object there, so what's the difference?

 

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3 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

By that argument, each stage in a multi should also count as a find.

No. It's still only one box to find. Whereas LabCaches are five grouped but Independent findable Virtuals.

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1 hour ago, HHL said:

No. It's still only one box to find. Whereas LabCaches are five grouped but Independent findable Virtuals.

 

Okay then, but many of the new virtuals I've done have had multiple stages, like GC7B6V6 which has 8 waypoints to visit and a task to perform at each one. To me, it's the combination of those tasks, and the half-day walk along the foreshore, that made that a memorable find. Had it instead been 8 separate virtuals each with just one unrelated task at each one, I probably wouldn't have even bothered going there.

 

An AL is itself a single entity which can have multiple elements to it; it's those elements that make up the Adventure. Those elements generally aren't separate unrelated things, usually they follow a common theme and are the parts that make up the whole. When I go over to Terrigal today to do the Central Coast's only AL, it'll be doing that AL that I'll remember, not the five separate tasks that went towards completing it.

 

Edit to add: An AL with a bonus mystery cache is no different to a multi with 5 virtual waypoints, yet one is worth one find but the other six?

Edited by barefootjeff
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4 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

 

Edit to add: An AL with a bonus mystery cache is no different to a multi with 5 virtual waypoints, yet one is worth one find but the other six?

 

But isn't it really about the experience?  Does it matter what the numbers are?

 

If there was a series of trads with a bonus mystery cache (that can only be found using clues from the trads) should that be just 1 find because it's just like a multi with physical waypoints, or a find per each trad as well as the mystery?  Seems obvious to me...

 

Seems this could be argued until the cows come home.  I think better to accept that depending on the way you look at it there are inconsistencies, simply because there are different types of caches.  To argue that find count must work this way or that way will always end up with someone saying but what about this scenario.

 

From a find count, AL's have been implemented as a group of virtuals and that's kind of that.  If it makes someone dislike multis, or conversely they like multis and dislike ALs, well so be it - you don't gotta cache 'em all!

Edited by funkymunkyzone
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For me, the downside of the proliferation of Adventure Labs, particularly those that are a bit so so and have been created just because someone could, is that it's taken away one of the drawcards of mega events.  Labs used to be something that people would go to a mega event to do.  Sure it's not the only reason to go to a mega, and it's probably not even high on the list, but it used to be one of the selling points.  Now it won't even matter if we set up some truly awesome ALs for the mega, I suspect many will already be a bit jaded by having experiencing pretty average ones, and been there done that, nothing special...

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11 minutes ago, funkymunkyzone said:

From a find count, AL's have been implemented as a group of virtuals and that's kind of that.  If it makes someone dislike multis, or conversely they like multis and dislike ALs, well so be it - you don't gotta cache 'em all!

 

Having now done one, something else has struck me on this. With any other cache type, to get a smiley you have to write a log. Sure, these days just about anything counts as a log but it's still a log. With ALs, though, there's no opportunity to write a log for each stage, it's only when you've completed them all that you can submit one log for the whole AL. So now, for this cache type only, one log equals five smileys.

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5 minutes ago, funkymunkyzone said:

For me, the downside of the proliferation of Adventure Labs, particularly those that are a bit so so and have been created just because someone could, is that it's taken away one of the drawcards of mega events.  Labs used to be something that people would go to a mega event to do.  Sure it's not the only reason to go to a mega, and it's probably not even high on the list, but it used to be one of the selling points.  Now it won't even matter if we set up some truly awesome ALs for the mega, I suspect many will already be a bit jaded by having experiencing pretty average ones, and been there done that, nothing special...

Adventure labs should be left or the Mega; agreed. Some of them are awesome. Some of the others away from Megas..... yawn

I have been given an Adventure cache, but haven't got around to it yet, because of the present times. So likely, won't get to make one.

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1 minute ago, barefootjeff said:

 

Having now done one, something else has struck me on this. With any other cache type, to get a smiley you have to write a log. Sure, these days just about anything counts as a log but it's still a log. With ALs, though, there's no opportunity to write a log for each stage, it's only when you've completed them all that you can submit one log for the whole AL. So now, for this cache type only, one log equals five smileys.

Many people agree very strongly with your comments. It's ridiculous that each WP gets a smilie.

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5 hours ago, Mermaid.Man said:

That's an unusual assumption to make. 

 

Please explain then how you consider an Adventure Lab "not finding a cache" but a Virtual is finding a cache.

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37 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

Adventure labs should be left or the Mega; agreed. Some of them are awesome.

 

What awesome stuff is being done with Adventure Labs at Megas? In particular, that couldn't be done with a Virtual?

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49 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

 

Having now done one, something else has struck me on this. With any other cache type, to get a smiley you have to write a log. Sure, these days just about anything counts as a log but it's still a log. With ALs, though, there's no opportunity to write a log for each stage, it's only when you've completed them all that you can submit one log for the whole AL. So now, for this cache type only, one log equals five smileys.

 

Fair point Jeff, but I guess to me it still just comes under the umbrella of there are inconsistencies between cache types, experiences, and number of smilies.  Just that, as you point out, there's also an inconsistency with number of logs written.

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50 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

Many people agree very strongly with your comments. It's ridiculous that each WP gets a smilie.

 

Well, more accurately, some people on the forum (which is a teeny tiny fraction of all the players in the world) agree.  The impression I get from most players in the real world is that they love getting more smilies, and furthermore, they think it is justified.  I expect if they could simply get 10 smilies per cache they'd love that too! lol

 

There's no right answer...

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15 minutes ago, JL_HSTRE said:

 

What awesome stuff is being done with Adventure Labs at Megas? In particular, that couldn't be done with a Virtual?

 

I've seen some really awesome stuff set up as AL's for megas.  For example intricate cool gadget type caches that would never be able to survive out in the wild.  And also very well staged temporary adventures involving crime scenes and zombies and all sorts of crazy stuff.  Escape rooms and things like that.

 

What you are seeing at the moment as far as AL's that are out in the wild, they really are just a string of virtuals.  Some of them are really interesting, but none of them as interesting as the really cool ones that some mega organisers put together.  Others are a bit so so.  Either way, if you get used to the ALs that are out there now, you'll not be expecting much when you see a mega event talking about how they will have ALs.

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10 minutes ago, funkymunkyzone said:

I expect if they could simply get 10 smilies per cache they'd love that too!

I would strongly dislike that. Smilies are a record of my finds. Ten smilies for one find would be a lie.

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, JL_HSTRE said:

 

What awesome stuff is being done with Adventure Labs at Megas? In particular, that couldn't be done with a Virtual?

Boxes with puzzles to solve, to get inside to find the code word. Phones that need to have the correct number worked out and dialed to get the box to 'jump' out, etc. Virtuals are not like that. They are like the Adventure caches I have done away from a Mega. 'What is the third word' on that information board. That sort of this. Wow :rolleyes:. And then a mass of smilies for that. Wow again :rolleyes:.

Edited by Goldenwattle
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1 hour ago, Goldenwattle said:

I have been given an Adventure cache, but haven't got around to it yet, because of the present times.

You don't even have to leave your house to create one. It's not like you have to go place a container somewhere. 

1 hour ago, Goldenwattle said:

It's ridiculous that each WP gets a smilie.

I delete all of mine but one per adventure lab. 

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4 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

I would strongly dislike that. Smilies are a record of my finds. Ten smilies for one find would be a lie.

Don't take it out of context. It was a joke.

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1 minute ago, Max and 99 said:

I delete all of mine but one per adventure lab.

 

I expect I'll be doing that once I've visited the ones my mates have created up Newcastle way and the novelty's worn off. By the time my next milestone (2000) comes around, I want those to be 2000 actual finds with 2000 actual logs to go with them.

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18 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

You don't even have to leave your house to create one. It's not like you have to go place a container somewhere.

Are you making another argument again the futility of Adventure caches :) ?

For the Adventure cache I want to do, I do actually. If I make it I would like to have it connected to Canberra's new tram. Basically visit different tram stops (easiest way is to travel on the tram, but cycling (for free) would be another option) and acquire information to input for each stage. Then there's the expected physical bonus cache which is sort of expected (at least where I live people have come to expect that, as many have a bonus cache). The physical cache is the hardest for me, as I would like to place it in a reasonable distance to a tram stop, and finding a safe place is hard. I won't place a nano, because I DISLIKE them, but also because I don't live near the tram, and it's some distance from my house, and nanos run out of logs so quickly. Plus the logs are hard to read, and I do check signatures. I would like to add this to the international SideTracked series, as a Tram SideTracked. The bonus would actually be The SideTracked cache, and as well as being about to get the coordinates to find it by doing the Adventure cache, I would need to have an alternative simple puzzle for people to find the bonus, without doing the Adventure cache. After writing this I checked my email, and I have till 31 October, so maybe I will get it done.

18 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:
1 hour ago, Goldenwattle said:

It's ridiculous that each WP gets a smilie.

I delete all of mine but one per adventure lab. 

ImpressedB).

Edited by Goldenwattle

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20 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

You don't even have to leave your house to create one. It's not like you have to go place a container somewhere.

 

I guess you don't have to leave your house to set up a virtual or an earthcache either, or back in the day a webcam.

 

Or more realistically, yes you do have to leave the house if you want to record decent coordinates and ask decent questions at each location that can't be done from streetview etc.

 

22 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

I delete all of mine but one per adventure lab. 

 

You're free to delete any of your own smilies/logs/finds however you like.  Doesn't make the way you play the game any better or more righteous than anyone else, if that's what you were going for.  In my experience that's usually what people are aiming for when they do what they think is morally right and then announce it to the world.

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5 minutes ago, funkymunkyzone said:

 

I guess you don't have to leave your house to set up a virtual or an earthcache either, or back in the day a webcam.

 

Or more realistically, yes you do have to leave the house if you want to record decent coordinates and ask decent questions at each location that can't be done from streetview etc.

 

 

You're free to delete any of your own smilies/logs/finds however you like.  Doesn't make the way you play the game any better or more righteous than anyone else, if that's what you were going for.  In my experience that's usually what people are aiming for when they do what they think is morally right and then announce it to the world.

Thank you for sharing your opinion. 

I don't know what morality has to do with it. The help center tells you how to do this, for those that want to. 

 

Edited by Max and 99

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Max and 99 said:

Thank you for sharing your opinion. 

You're most welcome.

Despite that there was no "opinion" in my post at all, just stating thhe obvious about what can and can't be done.

Edited by funkymunkyzone

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20 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

I don't know what morality has to do with it.

 

I also don't see where morality comes into it, I just want my finds to actually mean something to me. Finding a container, solving a puzzle, completing a multi, answering all the questions on an EC or virtual and then logging my experience is what I like to think of as a find. Just keying a few digits into my phone from a number on a kerbside pillarbox or counting posts in a fence doesn't really cut it for me as a find, let alone as a whole adventure. There's got to be at least some meat in it otherwise they're just meaningless numbers.

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2 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:

 

Please explain then how you consider an Adventure Lab "not finding a cache" but a Virtual is finding a cache.

Quite simply because they are two completely different games.  An Adventure is an Adventure and a geocache is a geocache.

 

They are two different games from the same company.  They also have a third game, Waymarking.

 

You don't see Adventures listed on the geocaching website, just as you won't see geocaches listed on the Adventure Lab app.

 

There's nothing wrong with this of course.  I'm just clarifying my opinion about why I'm uncomfortable about trying an Adventure when it will falsely inflate my geocache finds (and by such a large amount too).

 

From what I read here though it would seem that we are able to delete our Adventure finds which is something I didn't realise.  This is good news.

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9 hours ago, Mermaid.Man said:

The downside to this though is that adventures often have a 'bonus cache' associated with them which is not findable without completing the adventure. 

This was a topic in another thread. Someone did the adventure lab just so they could get the bonus cache, and then deleted their finds on the adventure lab. It was how they chose to participate. 

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8 hours ago, funkymunkyzone said:

I've seen some really awesome stuff set up as AL's for megas.  For example intricate cool gadget type caches that would never be able to survive out in the wild.  And also very well staged temporary adventures involving crime scenes and zombies and all sorts of crazy stuff.  Escape rooms and things like that.


The two megas I attended that had Labs just used them as temporary Traditionals or temporary Virtuals so there was very much a sense of "why should I bother?"

 

What you're describing shouldn't even be the same cache type as the Adventure Labs we have now. What you're describing are elaborate temporary Mystery caches while what we've got is a hybrid of a Virtual and a Whergo. I think both are good, but should be separate types.

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10 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

With any other cache type, to get a smiley you have to write a log.


I think this nails it.

- For any other type of cache: 1 log + 1 rating (i.e. an optional FP) = 1 find.

- With ALCs: 1 log + 1 rating = 5(ish) finds.

 

This makes some sense for the lab caches at Megas (at least, those that I’ve seen).  These were typically stand-alone puzzles, demonstrating something a little different - or experimental (hence, “lab”).

 

I’ve enjoyed the new ALCs that I’ve done and I’ve had pretty good feedback on the one I set, but they have very little in common with those Mega Labs.  The new ALCs are essentially multi-stage Virtuals, with (so far as I’ve seen) little opportunity for experimentation.

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7 hours ago, Mermaid.Man said:

Quite simply because they are two completely different games.  An Adventure is an Adventure and a geocache is a geocache.

 

You don't see Adventures listed on the geocaching website, just as you won't see geocaches listed on the Adventure Lab app.

 

There's nothing wrong with this of course.  I'm just clarifying my opinion about why I'm uncomfortable about trying an Adventure when it will falsely inflate my geocache finds (and by such a large amount too).

From what I read here though it would seem that we are able to delete our Adventure finds which is something I didn't realise.  This is good news.

 

I was curious about this, not wanting to load an app not needed.  Isn't that odd ?

Every waymark page on Waymarking.com lists "nearest geocaches" , as well as "all nearby waymarks" on every cache page.

Why not I wonder ?

 

To be clear,  I'm sorta with you, just that it seems easier (for me) to just skip it.    :)

I figure eventually someone will push the limits yet-again, like they do most everything.

Maybe it'll take an ET highway-like setup with five stages each one to get someone to say enough's enough. 

 - It was HQ that finally ended multiple logs on caches, where some COs were logging a 'find" every time they did maintenance

Really surprised that they didn't remember the issues with that...

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Purely guessing and speculating here.

I wonder if Adventure caches are being pushed, because new cachers, who only use a phone, are not getting enough with traditional caches; the same level of continuing enjoyment, that cachers who started this game years ago without aps, found. Newbies possibly rarely access the site to learn more, and find how much better that is, than only using the ap. That there is more to caching than the ap. That there are interesting logs to read, and other people's photographs to look at. That there are events to meet other cachers, etc. That other people are reading their logs. The one word logs sort of indicate that. And because of this, many are not hanging around. Many never stay around long enough, to become more than 'muggles with aps'. That might also explain why Adventure caches have a find with each WP, and why they appear to be kept and even more caches are being published, so new cachers who only use phones, can get their score up quickly. Maybe this is thought that it will encourage them to stay, and stay members, paying customers. So no matter how much that some longer term cachers complain about this, they will be ignored in favour of attracting 'muggles with aps' in the hope they will stay around.

As it has become, geocaching is just another ap to many new players.

 

All only speculation, because we the playing members, are not kept in the loop for the reasons.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

That might also explain why Adventure caches have a find with each WP, and why they appear to be kept and even more caches are being published, so new cachers who only use phones, can get their score up quickly. Maybe this is thought that it will encourage them to stay, and stay members, paying customers.

 

I'm having trouble seeing how this would work, as the find count is just a number, you can't do anything with it or redeem it for prizes, frequent flier points or whatever. I doubt those muggles with apps would be checking their badges and belts on Project-GC either. Would I be more likely to stay in the game if the app said I had 100 finds instead of 20 after completing 20 ALs? I doubt it.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:


The two megas I attended that had Labs just used them as temporary Traditionals or temporary Virtuals so there was very much a sense of "why should I bother?"

 

Indeed. Not all mega events have great lab caches.  I just gave some examples of awesome ones.

 

9 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:

What you're describing shouldn't even be the same cache type as the Adventure Labs we have now. What you're describing are elaborate temporary Mystery caches while what we've got is a hybrid of a Virtual and a Whergo. I think both are good, but should be separate types.

 

This I disagree with.  The elaborate gadgety caches revealed a codeword to enter into the AL, and they were arranged as a series of them you could do in any order, and there was a theme.  The zombie/crime scene/adventure followed a storyline and fitted really well with the AL concept.  I mean, they *could* be separate types, but they don't need to be.

Edited by funkymunkyzone

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4 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

 

I'm having trouble seeing how this would work, as the find count is just a number, you can't do anything with it or redeem it for prizes, frequent flier points or whatever.

 

This right here (bolding is mine) is why I'm wondering why any of you are concerned with what your find count is after completing an AL.

 

The one find per location within an AL can be justified both for or against, so whichever way HQ went, there'd be someone unhappy.  <shrug>

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19 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

Having now done one, something else has struck me on this. With any other cache type, to get a smiley you have to write a log. Sure, these days just about anything counts as a log but it's still a log. With ALs, though, there's no opportunity to write a log for each stage, it's only when you've completed them all that you can submit one log for the whole AL. So now, for this cache type only, one log equals five smileys.

Yeah, good point, and, furthermore, that one log's not really a log, either. I don't know how to read the logs, I don't care to read the logs, I don't know how edit *my* log....and on top of it, logs are entirely on my phone. There's a *reason* I don't log geocaches from my phone, and they all apply just as much when the AL app tells me to enter a log...except, of course, I have no choice: if I want to add a log, I have to do it there in the app, at the end of a hot, sweaty (even when enjoyable) adventure lab. Guess what? My one log (for those 5 finds) doesn't amount to much, and you probably can't read it anyway because of all the typos.

 

I've come to adopt Mermaid.Man's point of view: they aren't geocaches, they're entirely something else. I enjoy them (when I happen to notice them!), whatever they are. So, consequently, I'm not worried about the logs, and since my find count isn't important to me, I could care less how much a single AL adds to that. (But if you want my vote: one is the only thing that make sense, so I'm assuming that was way hard to implement, in which case I'm giving my vote to the developer that found himself giving out 5 because tyhere was no good way to give 1.) I'm happy to leave it to GS. If they find a way to integrate them with the rest of geocaching, that's just a bonus to me. But I'm long past seeing the lack of coordination with geocaching -- or the *anti*-coordination! -- as an issue. Are they fun! Yes, I think so. Anything else is gravy.

 

Having said that...one thing I can say from experience is that the ALs that have a bonus unknown cache associated with them come off as much better integrated and are much more likely to be noticed, and the bonus cache gives me a great place to write the log I wanted to write for the AL itself.

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5 hours ago, funkymunkyzone said:

The one find per location within an AL can be justified both for or against, so whichever way HQ went, there'd be someone unhappy.

 

In the selection criterion for creating ALs, it says:

 

Quote
  • An active Premium membership
  • Have found at least two Adventure Lab Caches
  • Does not have a current credit or active Adventure (a “credit” gives access to the Adventure Lab Builder to create an Adventure, with up to 5 locations)

 

Assuming by that they mean you've completed two separate ALs and not just found two locations in the one AL, it seems HQ can't even decide amongst themselves what constitutes a "find".

 

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1 hour ago, barefootjeff said:

 

Assuming by that they mean you've completed two separate ALs and not just found two locations in the one AL, it seems HQ can't even decide amongst themselves what constitutes a "find".

 

 

You don't think that's getting just a little bit nitpicky in order to prove you're right?  Let's call in the lawyers! lol

But seriously though, there are many inconsistencies, even pre-existing long before Adventure Labs, and we could pull them all apart if we wanted to, but we just accept those...  The find count on ALs is really just no big deal, particularly if find count doesn't matter, as you pointed out earlier, and also you can manually adjust it down if you want by deleting AL finds.  Storm in a teacup.

Edited by funkymunkyzone
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3 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

it seems HQ can't even decide amongst themselves what constitutes a "find".

No, they are just not pretty well in wording. Should be "Have solved at least two Adventure Lab Caches"

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9 hours ago, dprovan said:

Yeah, good point, and, furthermore, that one log's not really a log, either. I don't know how to read the logs, I don't care to read the logs, I don't know how edit *my* log

 

Open the app, open the Adventuer Lab, on top you find "activity", just click.  Pencil on top let you edit your log.

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8 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

Assuming by that they mean you've completed two separate ALs and not just found two locations in the one AL, it seems HQ can't even decide amongst themselves what constitutes a "find".

 

Given the way they show in stats I'm not sure that is true.

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Some geocachers stop playing Adventure Labs after realizing that these "finds" have Difficulty and Terrain level zero, reducing greatly the average D/T they have already collected.

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