Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 3
Max and 99

What's the logic of the Find Count for Lab Caches

Recommended Posts

Let's change it the other way.  How about if we get a smiley for each stage of a multi-cache?

 

The adventure labs that I am working on (4/5 caches each) are taking me weeks to complete.  I don't mind getting rewarded for each stage.

Edited by elyob
  • Upvote 2
  • Funny 1
  • Surprised 1

Share this post


Link to post
28 minutes ago, elyob said:

Let's change it the other way.  How about if we get a smiley for each stage of a multi-cache?

 

The adventure labs that I am working on (4/5 caches each) are taking me weeks to complete.  I don't mind getting rewarded for each stage.

The ones you are working on sound much harder than the two I've done. I mean 10. 😃

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
51 minutes ago, elyob said:

Let's change it the other way.  How about if we get a smiley for each stage of a multi-cache?

 

 

Then I'd stop hiding multis.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, elyob said:

Let's change it the other way.  How about if we get a smiley for each stage of a multi-cache?

In the last few months, it happened twice in my homezone, that inexperienced COs hid their first multi cache, and a logbook was placed in each of the stages. The finders still got only one smiley ;) .

Share this post


Link to post

No idea why it's done that way. Personally, I hope it's a bug or oversight. I say that because it came as a complete surprise to me. If it's a conscious decision, it needs to have a representation that makes sense at the level of finding things.

 

It put me off adventure lab caches, too. I've only done 1, got credit for 5, and now I don't really consider my milestones to be valid.

 

Too bad, 'cuz I did enjoy doing the adventure lab and am looking forward to doing more.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
59 minutes ago, dprovan said:

It put me off adventure lab caches, too. I've only done 1, got credit for 5, and now I don't really consider my milestones to be valid.

 

Too bad, 'cuz I did enjoy doing the adventure lab and am looking forward to doing more.

This is what can happen, if you rate some statistics aspect of geocaching ("milestones" in this case) higher than the actual fun of doing interesting caches (or side games like Adventure Labs).

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
16 hours ago, baer2006 said:
17 hours ago, dprovan said:

It put me off adventure lab caches, too. I've only done 1, got credit for 5, and now I don't really consider my milestones to be valid.

 

Too bad, 'cuz I did enjoy doing the adventure lab and am looking forward to doing more.

This is what can happen, if you rate some statistics aspect of geocaching ("milestones" in this case) higher than the actual fun of doing interesting caches (or side games like Adventure Labs).

 

Well I'm the same way, and it's not because of statistics - that's a collateral side effect. It's because it just doesn't make sense to me. And, the same argument can be made that smileys are given at each and every codeword entered because people have placed more value on the smiley than the experience provided by the single Adventure Lab. So...

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post

I completed a 10 stage Lab cache a few months ago. It is in central Illinois and went from north of Bloomington to Springfield with several stops in between. This was over 80 miles. I have not seen a Multi cache that spread out. Based on the different locations that it took me to and the history or scenic area I was brought to they could have each been a virtual. So I looked at this series of Lab caches worth the 10 lab credits. Yesterday I stumbled upon the Project-GC lab cache series that took you through their website to find code words. This series took you to information pages about the website. I have been debating on removing those logs. I did not have to travel, I learned some about their website, however there was not a physical location to go to and see or learn about. When I got up this morning I saw on a geocaching Facebook group about another web based lab cache. I have more concern over the web based lab caches then I do getting a credit for each physical one. 

Edited by Scouter74
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, thebruce0 said:

 

Well I'm the same way, and it's not because of statistics - that's a collateral side effect. It's because it just doesn't make sense to me.

I couldn't care less about how many smileys I get for completing the full 5 or 10 tasks of an Adventure Lab. Except when keeping track of my count of Lab Cache finds, I would hardly notice the difference between one smiley per location or one per completed adventure. My total find count is already too high ;) .

Also, one 10-Lab ALC I did had its locations distributed in 3 very distinct areas - physically separated by 10-20 km, and on slightly different topics. This ALC was more likei like 3 multi caches. So, strictly speaking, 10 smileys for the ALC "feel" too much, while only 1 would feel too few. But as I said, I don't really care.

 

1 hour ago, thebruce0 said:

And, the same argument can be made that smileys are given at each and every codeword entered because people have placed more value on the smiley than the experience provided by the single Adventure Lab.

I guess that you nailed Groundspeak's rationale for 1 smiley per location. They know that the vast majority of cachers go for smileys (just look the proliferation of power trails), and they want the ALCs to be a success. So for GS, the more smileys the better ;) .

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Scouter74 said:

I completed a 10 stage Lab cache a few months ago. It is in central Illinois and went from north of Bloomington to Springfield with several stops in between. This was over 80 miles. I have not seen a Multi cache that spread out. Based on the different locations that it took me to and the history or scenic area I was brought to they could have each been a virtual. So I looked at this series of Lab caches worth the 10 lab credits. Yesterday I stumbled upon the Project-GC lab cache series that took you through their website to find code words. This series took you to information pages about the website. I have been debating on removing those logs. I did not have to travel, I learned some about their website, however there was not a physical location to go to and see or learn about. When I got up this morning I saw on a geocaching Facebook group about another web based lab cache. I have more concern over the web based lab caches then I do getting a credit for each physical one. 

 

I had the same experience with the Project-GC lab cache series.  Would love to remove the logs but can't figure out how.  Can anyone tell me?

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, DubbleG said:

 

I had the same experience with the Project-GC lab cache series.  Would love to remove the logs but can't figure out how.  Can anyone tell me?

Go to your profile on the website, select the Geocaches tab, and click on "Lab Cache"  in the summary of found caches. You will see a list of all your lab cache finds. You can delete each one with the Trash button.

*** WARNING ***

As far as I know, you cannot "undo" a deletion! Not even by playing the ALC again, because in the app it will still show as completed. At least that's how it used to be, and I'm definitely not going to try if it has changed by now ;) .

  • Upvote 1
  • Helpful 1

Share this post


Link to post
43 minutes ago, baer2006 said:

As far as I know, you cannot "undo" a deletion! Not even by playing the ALC again, because in the app it will still show as completed. At least that's how it used to be, and I'm definitely not going to try if it has changed by now ;) .

 

Yes, there is an undelete button if you display your deleted completions.

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
30 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

 

Yes, there is an undelete button if you display your deleted completions.

 

Cool! Thank you for pointing it out!

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, baer2006 said:

Go to your profile on the website, select the Geocaches tab, and click on "Lab Cache"  in the summary of found caches. You will see a list of all your lab cache finds. You can delete each one with the Trash button.

*** WARNING ***

As far as I know, you cannot "undo" a deletion! Not even by playing the ALC again, because in the app it will still show as completed. At least that's how it used to be, and I'm definitely not going to try if it has changed by now ;) .

I undid my deleted log and my count went back up. At least now we know this can be a workaround for those who only want a count of 1 for completing an Adventure. Delete all but 1 of the stages. 

 

My Lab Cache find count now correctly shows 3, not 15.

Edited by Max and 99

Share this post


Link to post
45 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

At least now we know this can be a workaround for those who only want a count of 1 for completing an Adventure. Delete all but 1 of the stages. 

 

Can we delete all but one of everyone's Adventure Lab stages?

 

...of course I kid...

Share this post


Link to post

I see an Adventure as a series of Virtual caches, not stages of a multi.

Of the 7 different AL, only 1 required me to go in a specific order, so they were very much like a series or a geo tour for a smiley at each stop, instead of a multi for 1 smiley when I finished.

Share this post


Link to post

That's a good point! Thank you for that insight.

On a side note: 

If a Virtual required me to visit several different areas to answer questions and complete it, I'd still only get one Find credit. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
23 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

On a side note: 

If a Virtual required me to visit several different areas to answer questions and complete it, I'd still only get one Find credit.

 

I've done a few virtuals like that, for instance GC892PC with 12 waypoints and GC7B6V6 with 8. Each of those took several hours to complete the one find.

 

Just wondering if you accrue an FP to give out for every ten AL smileys.

Share this post


Link to post
55 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

Just wondering if you accrue an FP to give out for every ten AL smileys.

Great question!

Share this post


Link to post
16 hours ago, Scouter74 said:

I completed a 10 stage Lab cache a few months ago. It is in central Illinois and went from north of Bloomington to Springfield with several stops in between. This was over 80 miles. I have not seen a Multi cache that spread out.

Only 80miles! I did a a multi cache that I needed to drive 8,000 to 10,000 kms to complete. With side trips I drove 12,000kms return. Canberra to Darwin return.I was the first person to actually do the drive. The FTF did the work from his armchair and making phone calls. He did take the final walk to sign the log. I have to admit that being the first person to actually visit the WPs it was disappointing to not get FTF. GC63GEW

There are many more like that. Canberra to Sydney (the shortest at about 700plus kms return), Canberra to Melbourne. Canberra to Hobart (that multi includes a ferry ride or air trip) and many more.

Then this challenge cache - GC5BFD9 -  needs even more distance covered to complete. I must have driven about 14,000kms for that one (I completed it as part the mentioned multicache.)

Edited by Goldenwattle

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

The FTF did the work from his armchair

Are you sure? It looks like the FTF is still on the road since he/she didn't add or edit anything to his/her log :

 

Found it 28/11/2015  [FTF] @ 1455 hrs. More later...

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, Tungstène said:

Are you sure? It looks like the FTF is still on the road since he/she didn't add or edit anything to his/her log :

 

Found it 28/11/2015  [FTF] @ 1455 hrs. More later...

Check the photographs. They signed the log.

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, K13 said:

I see an Adventure as a series of Virtual caches, not stages of a multi.

Of the 7 different AL, only 1 required me to go in a specific order, so they were very much like a series or a geo tour for a smiley at each stop, instead of a multi for 1 smiley when I finished.

 

7 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

On a side note: 

If a Virtual required me to visit several different areas to answer questions and complete it, I'd still only get one Find credit. 

 

Yep. I see an adventure as a cache with potentially many locations to visit, but the adventure provides one smiley, because it's one listing and one adventure. (Yeah I referred to a cache as an adventure - it should be, in some capacity, especially if it's multiple locations!)

I see an Adventure Lab as an experience with potentially many locations to visit, but the Adventure Lab provides one smiley for each codeword, because ... because ... SMILEYS! 🤔 scratchheadyellow.gif.6787defa3e97f23da80c345762f7d749.gif:huh:

 

Share this post


Link to post
On 1/22/2020 at 3:27 PM, elyob said:

Let's change it the other way.  How about if we get a smiley for each stage of a multi-cache?

 

The adventure labs that I am working on (4/5 caches each) are taking me weeks to complete.  I don't mind getting rewarded for each stage.

 

I assume it's because each stage of a lab is verified through the app.  That being said, I would not support any sort of electronic verification for each stage of a multi-cache.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post

All my AR caches had each stage verified before you continued, but no matter how many stages each had, you still only got one Find for completing it. 

Share this post


Link to post

Just reflecting on an 8-virtual-stage-plus-final multi I'm putting together and pondering how this might have worked better (or not) as a multi-stage virtual or adventure lab. The waypoints follow a walking track through a national park to a beautiful pool at the bottom of a small cascade of waterfalls.

 

EmeraldPool.jpg.7cd84a1a0610063e0ddee2a17c1ceb68.jpg

 

While I would have ideally liked to have placed the cache at the pool, pretty much the entire park consists of registered Aboriginal sites (that was the main reason they created the park) so placing a cache anywhere inside the park is not going to be allowed. The park is surrounded by privately-owned farmland and horse-riding grounds so the only place I could find to put the final container is alongside the road into the park (the road corridor is public land). The eight waypoints, at a mixture of signs and natural features, each have multi-choice questions to answer, giving the last four digits of the latitude and longitude coordinates.

 

This spot had actually been my prime candidate had I been chosen for a Virtual Rewards 2.0. For that I probably would have had fewer waypoints and added a photo requirement at the pool.

 

As I don't qualify for an AL, having never done any, that wasn't an option either although I think it would have worked well as an adventure hike through the park with all eight waypoints or maybe even a couple more included.

 

The complete hike is about 8km return and will take cachers about three hours to complete, so as a multi it will be a well-earned D2/T3.5 smiley and I'm sure the small handful of cachers who complete it will enjoy it and remember it. Likewise had it been a virtual. But as an AL I really can't get my head around it being worth 8 (or more) smileys. To me that would cheapen the whole experience, since most of the waypoint questions are pretty easy and walking from each one to the next is under a kilometre along a constructed walking trail, making it almost like a power trail of terrain 1.5 or 2 traditionals. To my mind, that's not what this location deserves.

 

Edited by barefootjeff
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

But as an AL I really can't get my head around it being worth 8 (or more) smileys.

 

In addition, how many spectacular caches out there with multiple stages could be argued as "being worth" more than one smiley?

It shouldn't be about the amount of smileys you get, regardless of the number of stages or locations. It's about the experience provided by the single geocache as a package.

  • Upvote 1
  • Helpful 1

Share this post


Link to post
9 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

Just reflecting on an 8-virtual-stage-plus-final multi I'm putting together and pondering how this might have worked better (or not) as a multi-stage virtual or adventure lab. The waypoints follow a walking track through a national park to a beautiful pool at the bottom of a small cascade of waterfalls.

 

EmeraldPool.jpg.7cd84a1a0610063e0ddee2a17c1ceb68.jpg

 

While I would have ideally liked to have placed the cache at the pool, pretty much the entire park consists of registered Aboriginal sites (that was the main reason they created the park) so placing a cache anywhere inside the park is not going to be allowed. The park is surrounded by privately-owned farmland and horse-riding grounds so the only place I could find to put the final container is alongside the road into the park (the road corridor is public land). The eight waypoints, at a mixture of signs and natural features, each have multi-choice questions to answer, giving the last four digits of the latitude and longitude coordinates.

 

This spot had actually been my prime candidate had I been chosen for a Virtual Rewards 2.0. For that I probably would have had fewer waypoints and added a photo requirement at the pool.

 

As I don't qualify for an AL, having never done any, that wasn't an option either although I think it would have worked well as an adventure hike through the park with all eight waypoints or maybe even a couple more included.

 

The complete hike is about 8km return and will take cachers about three hours to complete, so as a multi it will be a well-earned D2/T3.5 smiley and I'm sure the small handful of cachers who complete it will enjoy it and remember it. Likewise had it been a virtual. But as an AL I really can't get my head around it being worth 8 (or more) smileys. To me that would cheapen the whole experience, since most of the waypoint questions are pretty easy and walking from each one to the next is under a kilometre along a constructed walking trail, making it almost like a power trail of terrain 1.5 or 2 traditionals. To my mind, that's not what this location deserves.

 

In that beautiful location, would there be connectivity for AL players?

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, elyob said:

In that beautiful location, would there be connectivity for AL players?

 

There is along the ridge-top part of the walk, but while I didn't check, I doubt there'd be anything down at the pool. So I guess it wouldn't be a civilised-enough adventure to be an Adventure.

  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 1/24/2020 at 3:50 AM, baer2006 said:

I guess that you nailed Groundspeak's rationale for 1 smiley per location. They know that the vast majority of cachers go for smileys (just look the proliferation of power trails), and they want the ALCs to be a success. So for GS, the more smileys the better ;) .

My thoughts have always been along these lines..... I'm not losing much sleep over the extra smileys though. I suspect far fewer people would have bothered with the ALs if there weren't multiple smileys - especially as you have to mess about with a different app and then don't really get to log properly, and your participation seems to evaporate away - there is no real record to look back on, just a void in your find count.....

Share this post


Link to post
22 hours ago, lee737 said:

My thoughts have always been along these lines..... I'm not losing much sleep over the extra smileys though. I suspect far fewer people would have bothered with the ALs if there weren't multiple smileys - especially as you have to mess about with a different app and then don't really get to log properly, and your participation seems to evaporate away - there is no real record to look back on, just a void in your find count.....

I'd be surprised if enough people noticed they get mutliple finds for each AL, so I can't imagine it's much of a motive. If I hadn't looked carefully, I wouldn't have noticed even after I did my first AL.

 

By the way, I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned this, but another problem with this is that the finds are logged right away. This could screw up anyone that was aiming at a milestone but hadn't had a chance to log it yet just before doing an AL.

 

Has anyone figured out if the finds are logged one-by-one as you answer the question or all at once when you complete the AL?

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, dprovan said:

Has anyone figured out if the finds are logged one-by-one as you answer the question or all at once when you complete the AL?

Based on the profile of someone who contributed to this thread, you get a point immediately after answering a question. 

  • Helpful 1

Share this post


Link to post

On a car-travel-required, five-cache adventure lab, I got visit credits across five different weeks.

Share this post


Link to post
21 hours ago, dprovan said:

Has anyone figured out if the finds are logged one-by-one as you answer the question or all at once when you complete the AL?

They are logged and credited one by one as you complete the AL.  We did one earlier this month, and stumbled on a couple of the stages - we only got 3 "Finds" added to our total that day.  The other two finds, after the issue was resolved, came a week later.

 

I'd be content with only 1 FInd per lab; the 5 (or 10, for some) seems a lot.  But then, for someone like me who only gets a half dozen or so finds on a good weekend outing, 5 at a shot is significant!  If we add a lab cache to our list for a day, we end up with 11 or 12 added for the day as we recently did.  We've done 4 so far, and I don't plan to do the locationless ones where all you do is internet research ... that just doesn't feel right for me.  YMMV

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, CAVinoGal said:

I'd be content with only 1 FInd per lab; the 5 (or 10, for some) seems a lot.  But then, for someone like me who only gets a half dozen or so finds on a good weekend outing, 5 at a shot is significant!  If we add a lab cache to our list for a day, we end up with 11 or 12 added for the day as we recently did.  We've done 4 so far, and I don't plan to do the locationless ones where all you do is internet research ...

 

And all of that, see, is what people would say is the downfall - the statistical aspect of increased smiley counts, rather than primarily the experience. It's more desirable to have more smileys counted, so people flock to more smileys for the statistical bonus, and would be less excited if only 1 were given out, despite the provided experience being absolutely identical.

 

If you got half a dozen or so finds on a good weekend, did you really get more "finds" if the lab awards you +5 instead of +1? No, you did precisely the same amount of geocaching.  But you did get more smileys.

(disclaimer: I'm not saying you yourself care more about smileys than experience, but the comment quote plays right into that argument)

Share this post


Link to post

When I open the Adventures app I see my avatar, username, and a number. What does the number represent? 

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

What does the number represent? 

Deine Funde (ohne Doppellogs)

Your found logs (distinct logs only)

 

Hans

Edited by HHL

Share this post


Link to post
On 1/29/2020 at 5:31 AM, dprovan said:

Has anyone figured out if the finds are logged one-by-one as you answer the question or all at once when you complete the AL?

 One by one. I suppose an AL should be considered as a group of lab caches.....

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, HHL said:

Deine Funde (ohne Doppellogs)

Your found logs (distinct logs only)

 

Hans

I suspected that, but it doesn't match and I'm too clueless to figure out why.

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

I suspected that, but it doesn't match and I'm too clueless to figure out why.

 

Is it similar maybe to what it used to be like when logging your own caches and multiple logs on caches was allowed ?    :)

Your stats on your dashboard at the time used to say for example,  "1000 caches found , 930 "distinct", showing you really only found 930.

Another "oversight" ?

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

I suspected that, but it doesn't match and I'm too clueless to figure out why.

Log out of the AL app, and when you log back in, the number will match your Find Count. 

 

(Weird that mine was off by several and I did this to correct it. I dad another AL, and the count was off by one when I next opened the app.)

  • Helpful 1

Share this post


Link to post
16 minutes ago, K13 said:

Log out of the AL app, and when you log back in, the number will match your Find Count. 

 

(Weird that mine was off by several and I did this to correct it. I dad another AL, and the count was off by one when I next opened the app.)

An exact match now!

Once you made the suggestion it made sense. Thank you!

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, Max and 99 said:

An exact match now!

Once you made the suggestion it made sense. Thank you!

Glad it helped you.  Keep an eye on it to see if it gets off count again, like mine did.

Share this post


Link to post
On 2/1/2020 at 10:27 AM, cerberus1 said:
On 2/1/2020 at 10:11 AM, Max and 99 said:

I suspected that, but it doesn't match and I'm too clueless to figure out why.

 

Is it similar maybe to what it used to be like when logging your own caches and multiple logs on caches was allowed ?    :)

Your stats on your dashboard at the time used to say for example,  "1000 caches found , 930 "distinct", showing you really only found 930.

Another "oversight" ?

 

This is another fundamental reason the multi-find count for Labs really irks me. We don't get +1's for each stage in a multi, the find references the single listing. I'm glad the oddness of multiple finds per cache was rectified, because it seems like much more work to clarify in places whether the smileys represent specific listings or number of find logs. Now with Labs having multiple 'finds' per item, we deal with that again. The total of your individual cache and Adventure Lab finds doesn't match the number of smileys you have. That, or they treat each smiley as an Adventure Lab so you can't tell how many individual ones you've done.  This just irks me so, and throws the 'logic of the find count' out the window. Or maybe into the window so it splatters and makes a big mess. =P

Obviously, YMMV.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 1/24/2020 at 1:04 AM, barefootjeff said:

Just wondering if you accrue an FP to give out for every ten AL smileys.

One Favorite point for every 10 caches they find. (Adventure Lab finds, duplicate finds, and finds on your owned caches are not included.)

Share this post


Link to post
31 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

One Favorite point for every 10 caches they find. (Adventure Lab finds, duplicate finds, and finds on your owned caches are not included.)

 

Okay, thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
On 1/22/2020 at 2:27 PM, elyob said:

Let's change it the other way.  How about if we get a smiley for each stage of a multi-cache?

 

The adventure labs that I am working on (4/5 caches each) are taking me weeks to complete.  I don't mind getting rewarded for each stage.

 

Rules state Adventure Lab should take 8 hours or less to complete. What Lab are you doing ? Why is it taking weeks ?

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 3

×
×
  • Create New...