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CachingColorado

Is it just me, or does it seem that COs are pretty terrible at responding to "questions" regarding their caches?

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Fairly new, but not bad at this. I've sent messages to various CO to ask for help/questions and not once heard back.

I think they should implement a system like facebook that gives metrics on the timeliness and response rate of CO's to help encourage their responses.

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6 minutes ago, LoveFromColorado said:

Fairly new, but not bad at this. I've sent messages to various CO to ask for help/questions and not once heard back.

I think they should implement a system like facebook that gives metrics on the timeliness and response rate of CO's to help encourage their responses.

I don't agree with implementing a response time rating!  Maybe someone sent me a ridiculous question. Maybe someone messaged me and said "I'm tired of working on your puzzle. Just tell me the final coordinates".  Maybe their message to me says, "Your cache needs to be a 5T" and I don't feel like arguing with them about a cache that only requires a ladder to reach.
 

I recently got a message from someone, regarding my puzzle cache that had a bunch of Found It logs.

 

They asked: "Is this cache even solvable?"

 

Honestly, I didn't know how to respond without being snarky!

 

If I don't answer someone's question, I may have a very good reason for it. Rating me on my response time isn't going to change how I respond to messages.

 

What if I'm on vacation? I get penalized for not answering quickly? Not everyone is glued to their smart phones.

Edited by Max and 99
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8 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

They asked: "Is this cache even solvable?"

 

Honestly, I didn't know how to respond without being snarky!

 

The question is fair. It is not worth of trying to solve a puzzle that is unsolvable for the person who is asking. I would try to figure if there any change by checking what kind of puzzles they have already found and give guidance according to this.

 

Couple of days ago I got a message from a new player with zero finds. The first message was literally: "Total s***".

I didn't answer :) but the next message was "Regarding 失落的秘符 (GC8AZ85): Could you give a hint, the puzzle is totally impossible". 

As you can see, it it a D4 sliding-puzzle type puzzle :bad:. I recommended to select an easier one and now he have two finds from my traditional caches nearby.

 

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35 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

Maybe their message to me says, "Your cache needs to be a 5T" and I don't feel like arguing with them about a cache that only requires a ladder to reach.

Actually I think if the cache does requires a ladder, that's special equipment and that does make it a T5. Not everyone might own a ladder, or one tall enough.

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Just now, Goldenwattle said:

Actually I think if the cache does requires a ladder, that's special equipment and that does make it a T5. Not everyone might own a ladder, or one tall enough.

I should clarify.

It doesn't require a ladder. A ladder makes it easier to retrieve.

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I get people asking for help (often outright for the solution) on puzzles I have long ago archived.  As I understand they are included in Master of Mystery caches elsewhere in the world.  Occasionally I answer, but I think 1/ I archived them for a reason and don't want to be bothered about them any more, and 2/ if you want to be a Master of Mystery, be a Master of Mystery, not a master of asking for the solution.

 

In summary, no, bad idea.

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I always try to respond. I try to be helpful. Sometimes after someone has logged several DNFs I will even contact the person to offer assistance. I too have been contacted by an owner after logging DNFs with offer of help. So log your DNFs, for you might be rewarded :). Logging DNFs will also let the owner know if there is a problem, or maybe the difficulty rating needs to be tweaked.

I did have someone contact me asking for help who said they had searched several times already unsuccessfully. I checked and they had never logged a DNF. I replied if they had logged the DNFs I would likely have contacted them with assistance, but if they don't log their DNFs I am not offering assistance. Their reply, "Whatever rocks your boat" and I never heard from them again. Never gave them assistance :P.

It is very disappointing when someone doesn't respond to a polite question. It's very rude also.

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4 minutes ago, funkymunkyzone said:

I get people asking for help (often outright for the solution) on puzzles I have long ago archived.  As I understand they are included in Master of Mystery caches elsewhere in the world.  Occasionally I answer, but I think 1/ I archived them for a reason and don't want to be bothered about them any more, and 2/ if you want to be a Master of Mystery, be a Master of Mystery, not a master of asking for the solution.

 

In summary, no, bad idea.

They can only log your archived cache if you didn't remove it and left it as litter. If you did the right thing an removed the cache there shouldn't be a problem.

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57 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

They can only log your archived cache if you didn't remove it and left it as litter. If you did the right thing an removed the cache there shouldn't be a problem.

They are not trying to log my archived cache.  Where did you get that from?  They are trying to complete a Master of Mystery cache somewhere else in the world, which my puzzle is part of.

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7 minutes ago, funkymunkyzone said:

They are not trying to log my archived cache.  Where did you get that from?

You wrote, " I get people asking for help (often outright for the solution) on puzzles I have long ago archived."

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2 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

You wrote, " I get people asking for help (often outright for the solution) on puzzles I have long ago archived."

Yes.  Did you read the rest of what I wrote?  Where does it say they are trying to log my archived puzzle?

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1 hour ago, Goldenwattle said:

I always try to respond. I try to be helpful. Sometimes after someone has logged several DNFs I will even contact the person to offer assistance. I too have been contacted by an owner after logging DNFs with offer of help. So log your DNFs, for you might be rewarded :).

If you want to be a super helpful CO and you want people to find your caches, put a better hint, and then they won't have to go to the trouble of logging the DNF, and maybe wait around for assistance that may or may not come...

 

1 hour ago, Goldenwattle said:

I did have someone contact me asking for help who said they had searched several times already unsuccessfully. I checked and they had never logged a DNF. I replied if they had logged the DNFs I would likely have contacted them with assistance, but if they don't log their DNFs I am not offering assistance. Their reply, "Whatever rocks your boat" and I never heard from them again. Never gave them assistance :P.

While I do log DNFs religiously...  To be honest, telling someone, who politely asked for help, to go jump through some hoops before you will help them, instead of just helping them in that same reply, since you were replying already, seems rather rude.

 

1 hour ago, Goldenwattle said:

It is very disappointing when someone doesn't respond to a polite question. It's very rude also.

Hahah, yep, I agree, see above. :)

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13 minutes ago, funkymunkyzone said:

Yes.  Did you read the rest of what I wrote?  Where does it say they are trying to log my archived puzzle?

Yes I did. " I get people asking for help (often outright for the solution) on puzzles I have long ago archived.  As I understand they are included in Master of Mystery caches elsewhere in the world. " Maybe you need to rewrite it.

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1 minute ago, Goldenwattle said:

Yes I did. " I get people asking for help (often outright for the solution) on puzzles I have long ago archived.  As I understand they are included in Master of Mystery caches elsewhere in the world. " Maybe you need to rewrite it.

It's in plain English.  Nowhere did it say anything about logging my caches.  If you don't know what a Master of Mystery cache is then Google it.  Meanwhile you are taking this way off topic to try and prove some kind of moral superiority... :/

Edited by funkymunkyzone

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1 minute ago, funkymunkyzone said:

If you want to be a super helpful CO and you want people to find your caches, put a better hint, and then they won't have to go to the trouble of logging the DNF, and maybe wait around for assistance that may or may not come...

 

While I do log DNFs religiously...  To be honest, telling someone, who politely asked for help, to go jump through some hoops before you will help them, instead of just helping them in that same reply, since you were replying already, seems rather rude.

 

Hahah, yep, I agree, see above. :)

I do have hints, from very easy, basically telling where the cache is (one even with a spoiler photograph), to harder but this is reflected with the D rating. People can't expect all caches to be easy.

 

Expecting people to log DNFs is hardly expecting them to jump through hoops :rolleyes:. I would not be brazen enough to ask for help without being respectful enough to log a DNF first. My reply though was civil. I have seen replies to a similar request (without logging a DNF) from other COs which were less civil. (Those people who asked for my help without logging any of their DNFs have still not logged a DNF.)

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2 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

Expecting people to log DNFs is hardly expecting them to jump through hoops :rolleyes:. I would not be brazen enough to ask for help without being respectful enough to log a DNF first. My reply though was civil. I have seen replies to a similar request (without logging a DNF) from other COs which were less civil. (Those people who asked for my help without logging any of their DNFs have still not logged a DNF.)

Well you told them that their caching style didn't meet your standards to receive any help, so that does not surprise me in the slightest.  They probably aren't dwelling on it either, off to find other caches - there are plenty of them!

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2 hours ago, LoveFromColorado said:

Fairly new, but not bad at this. I've sent messages to various CO to ask for help/questions and not once heard back.

I think they should implement a system like facebook that gives metrics on the timeliness and response rate of CO's to help encourage their responses.

Another thing to consider: some cache owners prefer email over the GC Messaging Center. They usually state this preference on their profile. It might be worth checking when you are trying to reach them.

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4 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

Another thing to consider: some cache owners prefer email over the GC Messaging Center. They usually state this preference on their profile. It might be worth checking when you are trying to reach them.

Good point.  And even COs who don't say anything about messaging preferences... the message centre works equally badly for them... :)

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3 hours ago, LoveFromColorado said:

Fairly new, but not bad at this. I've sent messages to various CO to ask for help/questions and not once heard back.

I think they should implement a system like facebook that gives metrics on the timeliness and response rate of CO's to help encourage their responses.

 

This is the first time you've mentioned this issue in the Forums.  What are you asking "various CO" that requires timely responses?

 

 

Edited by kunarion
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22 minutes ago, kunarion said:

 

This is the first time you've mentioned this issue in the Forums.  What are you asking "various CO" that requires timely responses?

 

 

Good question, but they only joined in July this year, so understandable this is the first time they asked. It was years before I came onto this forum :D, so they are quick.

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When contacting a CO I hope for the best but expect nothing.

Last Saturday at a solved mystery we didn't find a value at WP1 as did others before us. I emailed the CO and we continued with our planned cachetrip. A few hours later, when taking a break I checked my mails and found there was a reply that was send within 30 min. We could calculate WP2 and by the time we almost finished our tour we could get to that WP and the cache before arriving back at the car.

A week earlier I asked a CO if the first cache of a series was still there because of a few DNFs. I got no reply but when we got there we found a new container and log which mentioned the renewal of the cache on the day before. Unfortunately more stuff was missing or not found as we continued the 50Km series. There's still no answer for the mail I 've send with more info on the problems we noticed along the way (caches missing, tag missing, wrong info for an "extra").

 

So, you win some, you lose some but most of the time it seems CO's reply within an hour but since they go out caching too I never expect them to.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

Good question, but they only joined in July this year, so understandable this is the first time they asked. It was years before I came onto this forum :D, so they are quick.

 

How many questions to COs since July are we talking about? :huh:

 

The OP seems to be doing fine, but the expectation of fast replies is not practical.  I check various message systems, and I answer and follow up if there seems to be a communication problem.  But if someone was asking me questions all the time, I might ...combine answers.  You know, not answer each one immediately if it's gonna be a regular thing. :anicute:

 

There's no requirement for COs to reply.  Geocachers each have their own communication requirements (such as deliberately ignoring the Message Center) and you may see such info in their profile.  The "email" feature on a profile is actually an email processed through Geocaching.com, and not everyone realizes that a reply goes nowhere.  The Message Center has its own serious issues when communication may not be possible unless senders and recipients keep themselves updated on the current glitch.

 

As for email, which should be the most reliable, I send actual "email" to real email addresses all the time, to companies, friends and relatives, and sure, Geocachers.  People just plain don't check or even answer email they receive.  It's not just Cache Owners.  It's the vast majority of people.  Maybe it's because of the variety of ways to send "messages" and the separate apps and stuff required to read and answer them.

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41 minutes ago, on4bam said:

you win some, you lose some but most of the time it seems CO's reply within an hour but since they go out caching too I never expect them to.

 

One hour would be a very fast response time for me.  I am not at all directly plugged into the Interwebs.  Plus I hate to type on my phone. :cute:

 

For the purposes of this discussion, I was trying to think of what way someone should attempt to contact me in a Geocaching Emergency. They have this window of opportunity and need to find my cache right now, and they can't find it. Typically these messages are about my easiest caches, where I begin to worry that it must be missing. They can't be that blind, right? :rolleyes:

 

Probably the slowest way to contact me is by Message Center. I open the App, and someone asked 20 minutes ago, and who stays there that long looking for my cache? They're long gone. Unless you have my phone number, Email to my actual address using real email software is the fastest way to contact me and reliably expect a response. I tend to not even get the Message notice in my email, and if the cacher has no published email address, I must answer by Message Center, and it is broken for days at a time, if only broken enough to cause part of a conversation to not occur. Not complaining, just saying, MC remains especially unreliable.

 

Also, in all the time I've been Geocaching, I have not once had a Geocaching Emergency that required an instant thorough walk-though of finding a cache while I wait. But I get those emails all the time, so I know a whole lot of people do. Frequently. :ph34r:

 

Edited by kunarion
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Just now, kunarion said:

For the purposes of this discussion, I was trying to think of what way someone should attempt to contact me in a Geocaching Emergency.

They would have trouble contacting me quickly unless I was sitting at my computer. When I go out the data is mostly turned off on my phone, as I have little use for it. I use a GPS. (Where I was caching yesterday there was no phone signal.) Usually though I can get back in a day. Unless that is I am travelling in an area without phone coverage.

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11 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

They would have trouble contacting me quickly unless I was sitting at my computer. When I go out the data is mostly turned off on my phone, as I have little use for it. I use a GPS. (Where I was caching yesterday there was no phone signal.) Usually though I can get back in a day. Unless that is I am travelling in an area without phone coverage.

 

Yeah, that's another thing.  My phone's generally OK, but I lose phone service in various parts around town, some entire boondock villages, too.  People say it shouldn't happen, their phone is fine.  So evidently, I have a terrible phone company (Prepaid Straight Talk Wireless, and about their cheapest plan).  Come to think of it, maybe I don't even care.  I shall ponder this. :anicute:

 

Edited by kunarion

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2 minutes ago, kunarion said:

Yeah, that's another thing.  My phone's generally OK, but I lose phone service in various parts around town.  People say it shouldn't happen, their phone is fine.  So evidently, I have a terrible phone company (Prepaid Straight Talk Wireless, and about their cheapest plan).  Come to think of it, maybe I don't even care.  I shall ponder this. :anicute:

I know people (including people who live here in Silicon Valley) who chose their mobile service company because none of the others worked at their home address. Mine works at home, but there are places within a few miles of home where I have no service. Apparently, building more cell towers will lower property values...

 

eird-al-yankovic-tin-foil-hat-160x160.jp

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9 minutes ago, niraD said:

I know people (including people who live here in Silicon Valley) who chose their mobile service company because none of the others worked at their home address. Mine works at home, but there are places within a few miles of home where I have no service. Apparently, building more cell towers will lower property values...

 

My first mobile phone was a flip-phone with a Virgin Mobile Prepaid plan.  I went on vacation and visited friends and relatives in Alaska, Oregon, And Washington, and unless I was on an Interstate, the phone was dead the whole time. 

 

Maybe they make the dead zones so that everyone will go buy "5G".  I hear you can cook a hotdog with 5G.  Which is nice. :)

 

Edited by kunarion

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6 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

I should clarify.

It doesn't require a ladder. A ladder makes it easier to retrieve.

 

Did you use ladder yourself ? I am asking because many COs used ladder but not set it T5 for some reason.

Edited by arisoft
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Around here it would be very difficult to find a "no service" spot when outdoors. There may be a few indoors because of thick concrete. However, on holiday, we found it to be quite common to have no signal. Last year in Argentina we weren't even out of town when signals were gone. The same goes for Oz and NZ.

I even saw 2 WiFi signals when parked on Saturday, closed building was 50m away across a canal. I switch off my mobile hotspot when caching unless I need it and I don't use a smartphone, my wife has her phone at all times but no data. It's nice to be "off grid".

 

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Wow, this topic got hot fast. Like a hotdog in a 5G microwave oven. I even have to wrap my hands in foil, so I don't get burned typing a response.  :blink:

 

Back to the beginning: I also disagree to the proposal of having response metrics. If you're close to the cache and have a problem and the CO responds within minutes, then you're very lucky and if there's no response that fast, then you're just not. I might even say, that there's no Geocaching emergency. We're living in extremely fast, modern times, but not everything is always instantly available or possible. If you got a narrow time window and didn't manage, then it's just tough luck. I haven't found many caches yet and would have found quite a few more if I just would've had more time. That teaches me more than having more caches.

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I've had responses from COs. Often so bitter and sarcastic that I don't bother to contact any at all now. 

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4 minutes ago, Aguila317 said:

I've had responses from COs. Often so bitter and sarcastic that I don't bother to contact any at all now. 

 

I remember one CO who replied that he will archive the mystery cache if he will be contacted about the mystery. But it is the only unhelpfull response I have got.

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9 hours ago, LoveFromColorado said:

I think they should implement a system like facebook that gives metrics on the timeliness and response rate of CO's to help encourage their responses.

 

A bad and short answer usually takes only little time.

A good answer will usually take some more time as you have to think how to help. If you write many details that will take more time as if you skipped those parts.

 

So quicker response = better response?? Nope, I do not see that point.

 

In fact I totally agree that you should answer any question coming up to you even if you politely state that you can't help (or won't help if it is just "give me the coordinates of ...."). But that does not have to be 5 minutes after the question occurred though this is nice sometimes, of course.

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3 hours ago, Aguila317 said:

I've had responses from COs. Often so bitter and sarcastic that I don't bother to contact any at all now. 

 

Wow!  What are you asking them?

 

I don’t always get a reply, and some are less helpful than I’d hoped for, but I can’t remember a rude one.

 

I messaged somebody in Spain yesterday asking for help on another CO’s puzzle, and she apologised for taking 3 hours to reply.  My expectations are nowhere near that high!

 

I always reply to any messages I do receive, and generally within 24 hours, but I wouldn’t want to be measured / rated.

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11 hours ago, LoveFromColorado said:

Fairly new, but not bad at this. I've sent messages to various CO to ask for help/questions and not once heard back.

I think they should implement a system like facebook that gives metrics on the timeliness and response rate of CO's to help encourage their responses.

 

Fairly old, and terrible at this, I've been on both sides of the question/answer dialogue, and can honestly say that my responses (or lack thereof) as a C.O. are given as a reflection of the way the request is worded and its content. If it's a rude, curt, entitled demand from someone who thinks they deserve a cache find because they paid for the app , the politest response I can manage is silence. A puzzle solution rather than a judicious hint : nope, here's a hint though. A demand for the solution to someone else's puzzle ?  ........................... Tumbleweed.

 

I generally get replies from C.O.s but don't often feel the need to ask : I've found that writing a good individual log for every cache rather than half a dozen words that could apply to any old micro establishes a friendly relationship which means any further contact , or meeting at an event , is going to be seen as a positive experience.  

 

The O.P. might tell us how many messages to how many various CO's they have sent , about what issues , and using exactly what wording ?  (omitting cache/C.O. name ) , then we may be able to explain the lack of reply. I'm assuming that you checked before sending a message that the C.O.in question is still active (has visited the site recently or has made a recent find) and then allowed  several weeks  grace for the strong possibility that they are off on a holiday for two weeks, or a month's cruise, or even an extended stay in hospital, the arrival of a new baby, the death of a loved one ....

 

Expecting cache setters to not only freely provide you caches to  find, but also to jump to answer all and any questions quickly, would rapidly reduce the amount of caches set on Groundspeak. Cache setting and maintaining is supposed to  be a pleasure, not a chore.

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5 minutes ago, IceColdUK said:

I don’t always get a reply, and some are less helpful than I’d hoped for, but I can’t remember a rude one.

 

Same here.

Most of the time I just mail them " we are doing /  will be doing GCxxxx and are stuck, we found xxxxx but are not getting anywhere / didn't find anything at xxxx. Can you give us a hint in the right direction. Thanks"

 

Nothing more, nothing less. I never ask for solutions (I hate it when given the solution instead of a hint).

 

Most answers are short but exactly what's needed but never rude.

 

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5 hours ago, Aguila317 said:

I've had responses from COs. Often so bitter and sarcastic that I don't bother to contact any at all now.  

 

There are some COs (fortunately just a few) who fancy themselves as hyper-intelligent super-villains. They have a bunch of 5/5 puzzle caches and archive them all on a whim, because the lowly don't deserve such caches. They don't reply to messages, except maybe to make a special note log to all that there have been questions, with their response from on high, and it's a ...snotty response. It's one way to avoid being sent messages to answer. So there's that. B)

 

Once you figure out the landscape, sending no troll food is a suitable plan.  Chat with others instead.

 

But that can definitely stifle communication in general.  Sometimes the entire problem starts at the top.  Tap-Tap-Tap... is this thing on? :ph34r:

 

I'm not saying that everyone with a "question" has a genuine, appropriate question.  COs are people, too, and they can become annoyed and snippy.  But if you can't find a cache because you can't get an answer, find another cache.  I hear there are more caches than just that one.

 

Edited by kunarion
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14 hours ago, arisoft said:

 

I remember one CO who replied that he will archive the mystery cache if he will be contacted about the mystery.

 

Some people don't respond well to questions about their ugly baby.  One 5/5 puzzle cache had points numbered:

 

#1,

#2,

#3,

#4,

##5,

#6,

#7

... like that...

 

Using a # "number sign" is not so bad, but having the clue "##5" adds a whole new dimension to the puzzle.  Unless it's a just typo.  I had to ask.  The cache got archived. ;)

 

 

 

Edited by kunarion
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7 hours ago, bliss-chris said:

I also disagree to the proposal of having response metrics. If you're close to the cache and have a problem and the CO responds within minutes, then you're very lucky and if there's no response that fast, then you're just not.

 

By presenting faceplant as the example of how to make a communication system, the OP's whole premise is flawed.  Many people don't even realize you have to dig for their "Messenger" service, and many who use it don't remember to check it.  I have several standing messages there, a couple of them for years, with no reply, and no other way to contact the person.  And friends who do use "Messenger" also interchange that and the phone SMS and email, so today they are I guess checking only one of the three, and I get no reply this week.  It's a mess, and not worth emulating.  And it's pretty much what we get at Geocaching.com already.  I mean, it's OK as it goes, but it's not fast.

 

Edited by kunarion

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2 hours ago, IceColdUK said:

I don’t always get a reply, and some are less helpful than I’d hoped for, but I can’t remember a rude one.

 

I messaged somebody in Spain yesterday asking for help on another CO’s puzzle, and she apologised for taking 3 hours to reply.  My expectations are nowhere near that high!

 

I always reply to any messages I do receive, and generally within 24 hours, but I wouldn’t want to be measured / rated.

 

This is pretty much exactly me. I'll even try to respond to "rude" messages. It's just good etiquette, imo. Being ignored is something you earn, and typically one message isn't enough to earn that in my books. Everyone deserves a response, and ignoring is the exception to the rule. Even for puzzle requests.

 

2 hours ago, on4bam said:

Nothing more, nothing less. I never ask for solutions (I hate it when given the solution instead of a hint).

 

YES!  SO this!

Even if talking with a friend while out geocaching, we might bring up a tough puzzle they found I'm having trouble with, and if I ask for a tip or a nudge and they pull up their final coordinates ..... .... *headdesk* er, not at a desk - *facepalm*

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33 minutes ago, kunarion said:

 

There are some COs (fortunately just a few) who fancy themselves as hyper-intelligent super-villains. They have a bunch of 5/5 caches and archive them all on a whim, because the lowly don't deserve such caches. They don't reply to messages, except maybe to make a special note log to all that there have been questions, with their response from on high, and it's a ...snotty response. It's one way to avoid being sent messages to answer. So there's that. B)

 

 

My experience exactly !!!

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13 hours ago, LoveFromColorado said:

Fairly new, but not bad at this. I've sent messages to various CO to ask for help/questions and not once heard back.

I think they should implement a system like facebook that gives metrics on the timeliness and response rate of CO's to help encourage their responses.

 

Luckily this isn't "like facebook",  and no one will have to feel pressured to respond to another's immediate urges...    :)

 

We don't know what you said in your messages.   

I'm one of a lot who will not use  the site's message system.  I have email for a reason. 

We used to respond to everyone.  When some felt their time was more important than mine, that stopped.

I will not respond if the person's rude, emails repeatedly, or demands my immediate attention.

When you have a person email every week for over three months, just asking if a cache is still there, when can I finally say "enough!" ?

 

Now that I'm free from a sorta-smart phone, I don't have to be hassled by texts now too.

I have all cachers names with an asterisk alongside it.  If it's an emergency, I'll respond to that message a few seconds later,  little difference in time...

I'm somewhere out, and another wants to immediately know where a container I found six years ago is...  

The final was when I'm 42' up a tree with no harness, and my phone's ringing non-stop. 

 - Getting down, find they just wanted to know another's phone number.  They were waiting at a cache.    Sheesh...

I'm not giving you another's number without asking them first.  I'm not asking them right now either...     :D

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37 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

we might bring up a tough puzzle they found I'm having trouble with, and if I ask for a tip or a nudge and they pull up their final coordinates ..... .... *headdesk* er, not at a desk - *facepalm*

 

If someone asks me for a leetle hint about my puzzle cache, it has always been exactly a request for the coordinates.  Absolutely every time.  OK, it's done in a roundabout way, can they get an even better hint.  And a better one.  Can I provide more detail about how the puzzle works.  What number goes here ...until I've sent the exact coordinates.

 

So lately, I compose my hint letter, and by the way here's the whole dang thing on a silver platter.  Just in the off-chance that you want more than a... "hint".

 

If one is the exception, one must specify in one's Message telling me "don't just spoil the whole thing".  Because that's a noteworthy exception. B)

 

Edited by kunarion
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14 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

1. We used to respond to everyone.  When some felt their time was more important than mine, that stopped.

2. I will not respond if the person's rude, emails repeatedly, or demands my immediate attention.

3. When you have a person email every week for over three months, just asking if a cache is still there, when can I finally say "enough!" ?

 

1. I think this is the key for me. Initial messages? Respond. Repeated messages that enter the realm of 2 and 3? Then they might be getting an ignore.

2. On first contact (or maybe 2 or 3, my judgment) I'll still respond. Sometimes a friendly response goes a long way when facing an angry or annoying person. Maybe their assumption is that I'm one of those andgry/annoying people so they start off on the wrong foot. Yep, I'll always respond first, and judge further replies on how the convo goes.

3. Did you reply initially? (I assume so).   Depending on the cache, if they're just having difficulty finding it, I'd give them suggestions - ask someone who's found it already for a tip, or I might give them a tip, or say go with at least 1 or 2 friends to team up and find it; or maybe I'll offer to meet them and go find it. Without context, your #3 implies you never responded due to the question; I'd have responded. If you did and they continued, I'd have attempted to steer the person away from that basic, simple question (give'em a tip - who cares, whether it's easy or hard; or else go help them)

But yeah I'd never just tell them exactly where it is or how to find it.

 

20 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

Now that I'm free from a sorta-smart phone, I don't have to be hassled by texts now too.

I have all cachers names with an asterisk alongside it.  If it's an emergency, I'll respond to that message a few seconds later,  little difference in time...

 

Same, I try to do that whether it's an SMS, a FB msg, twitter DM, or GC message. So many manners of immediate contact these days, to me geocaching messaging is just another one. But in the context of geocaching, that's the surefire way of getting a hole of a cache owner - especially since a GC message also goes by email.  Knowing what it's like to send a message while on site, hoping for a quick reply, I do my best to respond to GC messages ASAP.

 

8 minutes ago, kunarion said:

If someone asks me for a leetle hint about a puzzle cache, it has always been exactly a request for the coordinates.  Absolutely every time.  OK, it's done in a roundabout way, can they get an even better hint.  And a better one.  Can I provide more detail about how the puzzle works.  What number goes here ...until I've sent the exact coordinates.

 

:laughing:

If I get that, I tend to get to the point of "I can't say any more otherwise it's a giveaway".  And if it's not my cache, I'll suggest they just ask the CO. That will certainly determine whether the CO would care if someone 'gives out answers'.  For my own, I'd prefer to be the one to choose whether someone is 'given' the answer or not.  Really bugs me when others do that behind the CO's back.  Some COs will give out their own answers, others won't. It's more like a see-no-evil-hear-no-evil under the table exchange. They don't know if the CO would care because they never asked.  I try to be up front on my caches - if you want a hint, just ask me, please don't go around getting answers from people; I'm open to chatting :)

 

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2 minutes ago, kunarion said:

If someone asks me for a leetle hint about a puzzle cache, it has always been exactly a request for the coordinates.  Absolutely every time. 

OK, it's done in a roundabout way, can they get an even better hint.  And a better one.  Can I provide more detail about how the puzzle works.  What number goes here ...until I've sent the exact coordinates.

So lately, I compose my hint letter, and by the way here's the whole dang thing on a silver platter.  Just in the off-chance that you want more than a... "hint".

 

Same here.  We haven't found a single one yet asking for a "hint" for any cache type.  They just want to know where it is. 

I tell them now.  These are the same who only mention their stats or TFTC in the log anyway...

What bugs me though is all the ones who think nothing of asking about another's cache.  Where is it.

It's not mine.  I don't know that CO's view on hints.  I say so, and to email/call the CO.  

At an event I brought this up, and most CO's appreciated that their caches weren't spoiled away. 

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34 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

:laughing:

If I get that, I tend to get to the point of "I can't say any more otherwise it's a giveaway".  And if it's not my cache, I'll suggest they just ask the CO. That will certainly determine whether the CO would care if someone 'gives out answers'.  For my own, I'd prefer to be the one to choose whether someone is 'given' the answer or not.  Really bugs me when others do that behind the CO's back.  Some COs will give out their own answers, others won't. It's more like a see-no-evil-hear-no-evil under the table exchange. They don't know if the CO would care because they never asked.  I try to be up front on my caches - if you want a hint, just ask me, please don't go around getting answers from people; I'm open to chatting :)

 

Yes.  Unless I'm working with a friend to solve someone else's cache, I don't like to give away the whole solution.  Especially if I'm the only one who figured it out (mainly because it's probably hard to explain the leaps of logic I used to solve it, it's a... pretty lousy cache puzzle :blink:).

 

I have sometimes sent the reply that I don't wanna ruin it for you.  And I always get the reply, basically, "ruin it for me!"

 

For caches I have never solved, while traveling with a group, I'm a little torn.  We all hop out of the car, I'm handed the cache log to sign, we hop back in, and by the way that was a 5/5 cache I've been working on for 5 years.  And everybody's on to the next one!  … Um... I guess I'm done solving that one now...

 

The etiquette in that case is kind of like, "you're not asking the whole world to solve it behind the CO's back, it's friends solving it among themselves, and that's OK". I could rationalize that, if only they didn't call someone else for the coords first. :ph34r:

 

 

Edited by kunarion

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26 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

 Did you reply initially? (I assume so).  

 

Yep.   :)

Similar, after a flotilla of cachers hit our lengthy paddle-to, one wrote, "Had this on the list for along time but didn't go because wasn't sure if it was there ."

 - That person never emailed to ask me once.  :D

 

Edited by cerberus1
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7 hours ago, arisoft said:

I remember one CO who replied that he will archive the mystery cache if he will be contacted about the mystery.

That's not necessarily a bad thing. If the CO is such a snowflake that merely being contacted triggers them to archive the mystery cache, then good riddance.

 

 

1 hour ago, kunarion said:

If someone asks me for a leetle hint about my puzzle cache, it has always been exactly a request for the coordinates.  Absolutely every time.

I've gotten requests for puzzle hints, and I've gotten requests for the puzzle solution. I treat both types of requests pretty much the same. I ask what they've tried so far, and what they've done with the encrypted hints that I included in the cache description.

 

But I don't reply to either type of request with any sense of urgency. This is a fun hobby, not a category 5 hurricane or a magnitude 7 earthquake.

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I don't see much benefit to such a system. Geocaching is a hobby, and as such, is done during spare time. And, based on the OP, it only measures response time. What if the answer you get is  "The answer to your question is trout."? (10 points to anyone that gets the reference.)  Is that relevant to the question you asked? Did it answer the question? We would need a complete quality of response system for this to have much benefit.

 

From the outside, it appears that GS has built a cache-centric database. What you are proposing is a CO-centric system, a way to rate a CO. Developing such a system would take a lot of time and resources. And, it may be fairly easy to game. Would a simple auto-responder negate the entire  system?

 

IMO, a lot of work, for limited and questionable benefit.

 

For me, timeliness is cache specific. For the majority of caches, I don't expect any response. The only caches that I expect a timely response on are caches that are part of a GeoTour. I hold CO's of GeoTour caches to a higher standard. And, my definition of timely in this case is within a week.

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