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Deleting photo logs


Clongo_Rongo
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As a co with a few caches I seem to get found logs that state - found but no pen

 

Why go geocaching and not have a pen as the rule states - to claim a find, you need to sign the log.

 

Claiming a find with a photo is worthless and cheating or lazy.

 

if the log is too wet to sign then a photo may be accepted.

 

I don't understand how you can leave the house knowing you are going caching and not check if you have a pen/pencil or other item able to sign a log.

but complain when your log is deleted.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, CHEZRASCALS said:

As a co with a few caches I seem to get found logs that state - found but no pen

 

Why go geocaching and not have a pen as the rule states - to claim a find, you need to sign the log.

 

Claiming a find with a photo is worthless and cheating or lazy.

 

if the log is too wet to sign then a photo may be accepted.

 

I don't understand how you can leave the house knowing you are going caching and not check if you have a pen/pencil or other item able to sign a log.

but complain when your log is deleted.

 

 

 

 

 

I reckon a photograph of the logbook, especially when it shows recent logs which clearly correspond with the online logging history, allowing the CO to verify the veracity of the find claim from the comfort of their armchair is good enough.

 

Unless the CO is a stickler or just incredibly petty.

 

Today I set off into a park to an Earthcache location. I'd already submitted my answers and had my homework marked as correct by the CO and been given a green light to log as found - but of course logging as found when I hadn't been to GZ would have been a lame thing to do.

 

I wasn't expecting to need a pen as I was just going to look. I did have a torch, a tape measure, a hand lens and a camera in case I needed to grab more detailed information - but not a pen...

 

Then we remembed that there was a trad nearby that we'd failed to find on a previous trip - and blow me down if we didn't manage to find it this time around in a few minutes!

 

No pen. Photo log - a commonly accepted practice which even the caching gods engage in from time to time.

 

So far I've not known a CO to react badly so I, for one, have had absolutely no need to complain - ever :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, CHEZRASCALS said:

I don't understand how you can leave the house knowing you are going caching and not check if you have a pen/pencil or other item able to sign a log.

but complain when your log is deleted.

 

Blimey - are you stalking me?

 

That's exactly what happened to me today.. I left the house, knowing I was going caching but I arrived at GZ and didn't have a pen/pencil to sign the log, so I posted a photo log.

In my defence - the above isn't entirely accurate.  I did have a pencil case full of pens in my car - I just forgot to take one with me when I set off on my walk.  I blame too many birthdays and the fact I'm not and never will be perfect. :anicute:

I've been geocaching for almost 10 years and that is the first time that has EVER happened - and I did state in my log that I would sign it next time I was passing.. and contrary to your belief, while I might be disappointed if my log were deleted, there would be no complaints.  I know the rules.. but I must admit than in my 10 years of geocaching, I have never known a CO who was pedantic enough to delete a find when a photo was provided as proof.

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2 hours ago, CHEZRASCALS said:

Why go geocaching and not have a pen as the rule states - to claim a find, you need to sign the log.

Just out of curiosity, where is this rule stated?

 

Don't get me wrong. I agree that "Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location" is a basic part of how the game is played, but where does it say that there cannot be exceptions, that "to claim a find, you need to sign the log"?

 

2 hours ago, CHEZRASCALS said:

Claiming a find with a photo is worthless and cheating or lazy.

I don't think someone interested in cheating would bother with a photo log. They'd just say something like, "pen didn't write, so didn't sign". Ditto for someone who is lazy. A photo log is more work than just saying something like, "pen didn't write, so didn't sign".

 

2 hours ago, CHEZRASCALS said:

if the log is too wet to sign then a photo may be accepted.

Ah, so there are exceptions to your "no photo logs, to claim a find, you need to sign the log" rule. So this conversation is really about which exceptions are acceptable and which aren't.

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Yesterday I had a pen which I stored on the side of my head next to my ear. Well I was in the brush and the next thing I know a tree limb moved and flung my pen farthing into the unknown. Could not find it. Though in this case I DNFed the find and will be back another time. Maybe I'll even find my lost pen. With school just started they have lots of sales so I stocked up on 2 packs of 10 for $1 each. Already lost two now.

 

Basically it happens and not everyone is perfect. Please be kind to those of us that mess up. This is supposed to be a fun game remember.

 

Personally I think every signing should have a picture or some sort of digital proof of finding. When the game started smartphones did not even exist now they are commonplace. So a picture that could be purged later as proof would help prevent a lot of the complaints I've read about. Or scan a QR code or something completely different, maybe have the app certify gps coordinates. Make allowances for backward compatibility and folks still using paper printouts and gpsr.  Slowly things will change I suspect.

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3 minutes ago, niraD said:

Don't get me wrong. I agree that "Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location" is a basic part of how the game is played, but where does it say that there cannot be exceptions, that "to claim a find, you need to sign the log"?

 

When you find the cache, sign the logbook and return it to the cache. You can take an item from the cache if you like - just make sure to leave something of equal or greater value in its place. When you are finished, put the cache back exactly as you found it, even if you think you see a better spot for it. Finally, visit the cache page to log your find and share your experience with others.

 

Yes.  This how the game is played.  "Sign log".  'Log your find'.  Seems pretty clear.  

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I don't see the big deal. Sometimes, it says there is a pen, but no pen. Or, the pen won't write. Sometimes, and a lot this time of year, the log book will not take the ink due to being wet. A few times it has been jammed in the bottom, soaking wet. Occasionally, I have a few spare minutes after work, and wasn't planning to cache. So, I take a picture to show I was actually there, being careful not to reveal anything significant. I never thought anyone would be offended with a pic. It proves you found it, so how is that cheating?

 

Edit: I have started carrying dry paper and baggies to add to wet logs. And, have thought of getting a stamp (that seems to work when damp paper?). 

Edited by BugLuv
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38 minutes ago, Harry Dolphin said:

 

Because you didn't sign the log?

 

Well, I suppose it is a difference between people who are primarily black/white thinkers and abstract thinkers. The intent is served by a pic or a signature. And, I don't buy that is cheating when you clearly found the cache. But, yes, there are people who are very literal (this reminds me of different discussions I have had with my twin brother-eye roll-ha ha), so I will try to always add dry paper/sign the log from now on.  

 

Just to clarify- I’m not saying any thinking style is better/worse. ✌️?

Edited by BugLuv
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29 minutes ago, BugLuv said:

Well, I suppose it is a difference between people who are primarily black/white thinkers and abstract thinkers. The intent is served by a pic or a signature. And, I don't buy that is cheating when you clearly found the cache. But, yes, there are people who are very literal (this reminds me of different discussions I have had with my twin brother-eye roll-ha ha), so I will try to always add dry paper/sign the log from now on.  

 

Ah.  "Guidelines do not apply to me.  I don't have to sign the log."  Abstract?  Nope.  "Sign log.  Log cache."  Seems fairly simple.  

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4 hours ago, CHEZRASCALS said:

As a co with a few caches I seem to get found logs that state - found but no pen

 

Why go geocaching and not have a pen as the rule states - to claim a find, you need to sign the log.

 

Claiming a find with a photo is worthless and cheating or lazy.

 

if the log is too wet to sign then a photo may be accepted.

 

I don't understand how you can leave the house knowing you are going caching and not check if you have a pen/pencil or other item able to sign a log.

but complain when your log is deleted.

 

Taking a picture and only that, feels more like I'm catching all 'em cartoon bugs in some other App. I will sign the log. “Find the cache, sign the log”. It's a deal. I bring a pen that writes, and another pen that writes. I take some fun pictures, but the CO also will see an actual signature, maybe even a kind of short story, perish the thought. :)

 

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9 minutes ago, hukilaulau said:

I have always been able to find a stick or a small stone with a sharp edge and mix up a little mud and scratch my "H" onto the log sheet. 

Yeah, I've seen logs with improvised signatures like that. But some cache owners get kinda squeamish about having their precious logs contaminated by signatures made from anything but certified genuine USDA Grade A ink.

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I have signed a log with found charcoal on one of the very few occasions I forgot my pen. I also photographed my charcoal scribble (hard to write with thick charcoal) and included that too, as charcoal rubs off. I have also taken a photograph of the log and it has been accepted. In the photograph case I checked with the CO first. However, I usually carry two pens, in case one runs out of ink.

I will accept photographs for my caches, as it proves the cacher did find it. I will not accept 'lost/dropped my pen' without a message from the finder with a detailed description of the cache , hide and log. If these aren't forthcoming, I delete the log. I have checked other finds of some of these 'lost/dropped my pen' loggers, and it's amazing how often this 'happens' to them. In one case, almost every time they go caching. Delete! Armchair logger.

But as I wrote, I will accept photographs and/or a good description.

Edited by Goldenwattle
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14 hours ago, CHEZRASCALS said:

I don't understand how you can leave the house knowing you are going caching and not check if you have a pen/pencil or other item able to sign a log.

 

It's happened to me on no less than five occasions. My normal caching backpack has quite an assortment of pens and pencils in it so it's something I generally don't think about when leaving the house. It's when I've gone out with a different backpack (or no backpack at all for a newly published P&G) that I've come undone. One of the caches was within walking distance of home so I was able to run back and get one, two were urban hides so I went off walking to the nearest shopping centre to buy a pen, and for the two bush caches when it happened I've improvised with a twig or gum nut.

 

There's a prominent and highly respected local cacher who has something of a reputation for forgetting his pen and signing the log in charcoal. I used to rib him about it until I got caught short, luckily it wasn't on one of his hides.

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4 hours ago, Team Microdot said:
9 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

I will accept photographs for my caches, as it proves the cacher did find it.

 

Yep.

 

Me too.  Actually,  if someone tells me that they found one of my caches, but didn't have a pen or pencil, I  take them at their word that they found it, and wouldn't delete their online log.  

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1 hour ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

 

Me too.  Actually,  if someone tells me that they found one of my caches, but didn't have a pen or pencil, I  take them at their word that they found it, and wouldn't delete their online log.  

I ask them to describe the hide, etc. If they can, the log stays; if not I delete. Especially for those for whom, when I check their logs, conveniently 'forgetting/dropping' their pen happens much of the time; in one case, almost every time. Unless otherwise convinced (with a good description of the hide, etc), they are armchair loggers.

Edited by Goldenwattle
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16 hours ago, CHEZRASCALS said:

Why go geocaching and not have a pen

 

Did you never had the problems that your pen was empty and didn't write? Then you took your pencil but it had broken in your bag. What to do now? That did never happen to you? Lucky you!

I usually have several pens with me - in my bag, in the pockets of my jacket, ... - but in summer I don't have my jacket with me and oh man, I took the pens out when cleaning my backpack yesterday. That did never happen to you? Lucky you!

 

By the rules you are allowed to delete those logs as the logbook has not been signed and if you want to: just do it!

But blaming people as cheaters and lazy and ... because they have no pen with them!? There are so many reasons why this may happen and even if I just forgot - who cares!?

 

By the way: If I did your caches and was in that situation I would use anything to sign the log: dirt, blood, .... Do you really want this? That would be an allowed signature but for my part I better like my logbooks filled out nicely and the one who forgets the pen may log without the offline log - I just believe her or him that the cache box was fount and usually I can tell by the logs. And if the person adds a photograph and sends it to me excusing for having no pen - it wouldn't come to my mind to call that cacher a cheater or anything.....

 

But again: If you want to just delete the logs.

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18 minutes ago, frostengel said:

By the way: If I did your caches and was in that situation I would use anything to sign the log: dirt, blood, .... Do you really want this?

 

That's the problem in a nutshell. It's not enough to go get a pen if you don't have one. Geocachers “forget a pen”, but they remember to vandalize the cache in retaliation. “No rules” means “do whatever you want to others' property” to unstable free-thinking losers.

 

And what's the deal with the “blood” inside the container when the premise was that a photo of the city is acceptable?

 

Edited by kunarion
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33 minutes ago, kunarion said:

 

That's the problem in a nutshell. It's not enough to go get a pen if you don't have one. Geocachers “forget a pen”, but they remember to vandalize the cache in retaliation. “No rules” means “do whatever you want to others' property” to unstable free-thinking losers.

 

And what's the deal with the “blood” inside the container when the premise was that a photo of the city is acceptable?

 

 

And no.  Please...if you are at one of my caches and somehow you have done the most inexcusable thing ever in human history and forgot or lost your pen...please DO NOT EVER sign with mud, blood, or any other material that is not pencil lead or ink.  I'm honestly asking people not to do this on my caches.  A photo log is just fine, thanks.  

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My current standard:

- I find the cache, the loogbook is writable and I have a pen: Sign the logbook and log a Found It

- I find the cache, the loogbook is writable and I haven't a pen (or it doesn't work): Try to leave a mark* as signature (without damaging the logbook), log a Found It and upload a pic of the mark in the logbook

- I find the cache, the logbook is too wet to write and I have a pen or not: Don't sign and log a DNF + NM

- I find the cache and there is no logbook: Don't sign and log a DNF + NM

 

I used to upload pics of the logbbook (and only the logbook) when I had not a pen with me (sometimes a unexpected caching season, sometimes s*** happens), but given that sign the logbook is a key task for finding a cache, I sign with a mark. Nowhere, I think, says you should put your full username and date as only way to sign.

 

*By a mark i mean try to paint an A with some grass or make a light groove on the paper. No cut the paper of sign with blood or mud.

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Well, I understand that signing is an action that is carried out on the logbook to modify it evidently as proof of presence, and is in the original essence of geocaching. Otherwise, in current times, it would be more practical (and ecological) that there would be no logbooks and that all the logs would require a photo of the inside of the container, but that would be another game. Personally I am not opposed to the photos (and I accept them in my caches, although I miss that they are not included in the notification email). But I do recognize that the essence of this game is the physical demonstration of having found the cache.

 

In addition, and although it is really rare nowadays, there is the possibility of going to a cache and not having a way to take a photo. It happened once to me, that I went with my GPSr but I left my mobile at home. In the GZ the pen did not work, so I had to leave the signature marking a groove in the logbook without the possibility of taking a picture. At least the signature was visible (without ink) and without damaging the logbook.

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6 minutes ago, Team Microdot said:

And that groove in the logbook - you didn't make it, I did, right before I took my photo :mellow:

 

Lol. I think I did not express myself well due to lack of fluency with English. With the "mark with a groove" I meant writing using grooves. I remember that on that occasion I put an "ANP" (for short I did not put the entire nick) like the one in the attached photo (although now it smeared some ink). If you say that you sign with "ANP" then I can say that I sign with "Team Microdot" my found. An endless story. :rolleyes:

IMG_20180910_162242.jpg

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4 hours ago, anpefi said:

- I find the cache, the logbook is too wet to write and I have a pen or not: Don't sign and log a DNF + NM

- I find the cache and there is no logbook: Don't sign and log a DNF + NM

 

Why? You found the cache. Maybe it is against the guidelines but it is about finding the cache what you did.

 

By the way if there is any reason my logbook can't be used - wet, missing - I like the cacher to log the found (with or without photograph, I trust them ;-)) plus needs maintenance (or any message to inform me) and NOT put any peace of paper in it. Putting a new log"book" in is the same as writing with mud - don't do it, just log the found and the owner will do the rest and take care for the cache.

 

But in any case there is no need to log a DNF if you found my box but had unintended problems with my logbook - that's my fault so why deny your log?

Edited by frostengel
grammar.... "fount" is not the past of "to found", oh boy...
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1 hour ago, J Grouchy said:

 

And no.  Please...if you are at one of my caches and somehow you have done the most inexcusable thing ever in human history and forgot or lost your pen...please DO NOT EVER sign with mud, blood, or any other material that is not pencil lead or ink.  I'm honestly asking people not to do this on my caches.  A photo log is just fine, thanks.  

 

That's my point.  I've even been blamed (Cache Owner) for not providing the pen (couple of cases, I had several pens in there.  Go figure).  The object is retaliation, while allegedly being very accommodating.  They stole the Geocoin while they were at it.  Serves you right. :mad:

 

Edited by kunarion
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13 hours ago, niraD said:

Yeah, I've seen logs with improvised signatures like that. But some cache owners get kinda squeamish about having their precious logs contaminated by signatures made from anything but certified genuine USDA Grade A ink.

 

Actually, I forgot to mention certified genuine USDA Grade A pencil lead (clay and graphite). Oops...

 

1 hour ago, J Grouchy said:

And no.  Please...if you are at one of my caches and somehow you have done the most inexcusable thing ever in human history and forgot or lost your pen...please DO NOT EVER sign with mud, blood, or any other material that is not pencil lead or ink.  I'm honestly asking people not to do this on my caches.  A photo log is just fine, thanks.  

 

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27 minutes ago, frostengel said:

But in any case there is no need to log a DNF if you fount my box but had unintended problems with my logbook - that's my fault so why deny your log?

 

I do something similar, DNF if I didn't sign it.  Lotta ways that could happen.  Usually it also means an NM, but not always.  I redeem my DNFs, unless the cache is entirely forgettable.  What's the point of that kind?  Points?

 

Unlike everybody else around here, I like Geocaching.  That is, I like to go places and sign the Geocache log.  I go to the cache place because I want to find a cool cache and sign the log (Find it, sign it). If I didn't do that, if I forgot my pen, if my pen didn't write, if the cache is terrible(!), I might log a DNF and come back and sign it properly.  The bad cache may be your fault, but the lack of pen is all on me.  I can return.  You did set it up to invite people to a cool place? I like a cool place.

 

I know everybody else is enraged if it's not a Smilie, so they prefer the blood/rocks/feces thing.  Not me.  I return and sign the log like a normal dragon.   "Find it and sign it", that's the deal.  That's the game.  I do that.

 

Edited by kunarion
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21 minutes ago, kunarion said:

Unlike everybody else around here, I like Geocaching.  That is, I like to go places and sign the Geocache log.

 

I like geocaching, too.  That is being outside and searching things in the nature or at other interesting places and later tell the owner about it.

Writing down my nickname is the lease important part of the whole thing and I would have the same fun without it.

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5 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

I ask them to describe the hide, etc. If they can, the log stays; if not I delete. Especially for those for whom, when I check their logs, conveniently 'forgetting/dropping' their pen happens much of the time; in one case, almost every time. Unless otherwise convinced (with a good description of the hide, etc), they are armchair loggers.

 

Unless otherwise convinced, I'm going to assume that they're being honest when they say they found the cache.   It's a shame that this game has become one where the default response is to question the honesty, rather than one where one can assume that those that are playing are doing so with honesty and integrity.  

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4 hours ago, MartyBartfast said:

 

You've never lost a pen?

 

You've never been out doing other stuff (working maybe), and found yourself with a few minutes on your hands and a cache nearby, but as you didn't go out to go geocaching you didn't have a pen with you?
 

 

A couple of weeks ago I was in Belgium for work and had the weekend free so I booked a train and a hotel in a small town in Luxembourg, primarily to find a few caches in the country but also just to visit Luxembourg.   Since I was only going to stay over one night I didn't bring much with me and realized while on the train that I didn't have a pen or pencil.    There was a cache a couple hundred feet from the train station but I found a small grocery store a bit further away first so that I could buy a pen.  As it turned out, the store didn't have any to sell but the proprietor gave me one.  The CO's for the caches I found over the weekend might have been fine with a photo log, but I didn't know them and it would have been a shame not to be able to log a find for my 30th country and 15th country in Europe in which I've found a cache.   

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8 hours ago, J Grouchy said:

 

And no.  Please...if you are at one of my caches and somehow you have done the most inexcusable thing ever in human history and forgot or lost your pen...please DO NOT EVER sign with mud, blood, or any other material that is not pencil lead or ink.  I'm honestly asking people not to do this on my caches.  A photo log is just fine, thanks.  

 

To satisfy the purists, I *always* sign...somehow!  Most often with a pen.  Once with a blade of grass and a key.  And if it is a life or death situation - such as a FTF - I have the signature in the log *and* a photo of the log!

:P

IMG_20180910_175738.jpg

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9 hours ago, MartyBartfast said:

 

You've never lost a pen?

 

You've never been out doing other stuff (working maybe), and found yourself with a few minutes on your hands and a cache nearby, but as you didn't go out to go geocaching you didn't have a pen with you?
 

 

I'm often the opposite. I've lost count of the times I've signed a log then walked off with the pen/pencil from the cache. Had to backtrack many times.:huh:

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27 minutes ago, CHEZRASCALS said:

This is what you have to do -

 

its a write note other wise or don't log

 

pleased they went back 

deleted.PNG

1

 

Have you checked to make sure they did. ;)

 

BTW do you always and regularly check the physical logs and then remove those that are not in the physical log?

Or do you only remove those online logs that publicly say they didn't sign the log?

What if they write back and say they had been caching with their friend GeoBob that day so they cached under one "group" name, aka GeoBob? 

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The rule is there for the benefit of the cache owner.  It allows them to delete finds, they believe to be bogus,  in which the log was not signed.   Other than that it's completely up to the cache owner to decide what's an acceptable find.

 

Talk about geo-litter.  I'm probably responsible for a box or two of pens I've lost in the woods over the years. :blink:       

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35 minutes ago, CHEZRASCALS said:

Another one

It's fine to be strict and require that finders sign the logbook of your caches, but please don't mislead people by quoting things as rules when they aren't. It is not a general rule that the logbook must be signed. I wish people would stop trying to say this is the case.

 

It also might be a good idea to state in your description that you require a signature in the logbook and will delete finds if there isn't. Most COs are more lenient and the default assumption of most finders is that the CO will accept some other form of proof in a pinch, so those COs who take a strict view should say so up-front. I don't see anything like this in your Letterbox Challenge description.

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5 minutes ago, The A-Team said:

It also might be a good idea to state in your description that you require a signature in the logbook and will delete finds if there isn't. Most COs are more lenient and the default assumption of most finders is that the CO will accept some other form of proof in a pinch, so those COs who take a strict view should say so up-front. I don't see anything like this in your Letterbox Challenge description.

 

letter.PNG

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