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bayoumiss

Cache owner log checks

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He is well known for deleting logs which haven't been signed as well as pumping out D5 caches which is it hasn't been signed it's fair do's to delete, I am just confirming what I read in the guidelines when i signed up and that nothing has changed on this subject.

There are plenty of other caches I can solve and find and first time I have ever used the ignore feature so I don't waste my time if he does it again.

Edited by lisboa_bruno

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Message I got after my log was deleted:

--------------------------------------
I'll remove your log for now and you can re-instate it when I've got the passwords.
Hope you understand, I'm not trying to be a d**k but I had to put the extra stage in to make sure people had actually solved it.
--------------------------------------

Edited by lisboa_bruno
language from CO message

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19 minutes ago, lisboa_bruno said:

Message I got after my log was deleted:

--------------------------------------
I'll remove your log for now and you can re-instate it when I've got the passwords.
Hope you understand, I'm not trying to be a d**k but I had to put the extra stage in to make sure people had actually solved it.
--------------------------------------

Technically still not enough to delete your log. You'd still be right to have your log reinstated.

The question is - is it that important to you? Is it more important to you to have it reinstated without following through with the intent of the owner (regardless of how annoying), than to avoid stirring up a hornet's nest for a +1 smiley?  Could not reinstating the log also enable this owner to continue requiring what he doesn't have the right to require and making geocaching more of a pain or frustration for others in the future?

He says he's not "trying to be a d**k", but that just means he knows he is being one. At the same time, I understand the effort a lot of puzzle creators to through to try to block people from "cheating" their way through puzzles, and try to help them learn or have fun or just discover something new.  Personally, I know I can't require people to solve my puzzles, but I can do my darndest to thwart any efforts to circumvent the puzzles. Ultimately, if someone finds my cache without solving the puzzle, I'm not ever going to be deleting their log if they've got the sheet signed. Heck if they find a way around my explicit efforts to stop that strategy, I applaud them :P

This owner would be good to learn the same.

You just have to ask yourself - is it worth the effort? (it may be, it may not be, really not trying to make a call here ;) heh)

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Not worth the hassle for one smiley face personally, just wanted others views and confirmation about the understanding of the rules and guidelines.

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14 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

Technically still not enough to delete your log. You'd still be right to have your log reinstated.

The question is - is it that important to you? Is it more important to you to have it reinstated without following through with the intent of the owner (regardless of how annoying), than to avoid stirring up a hornet's nest for a +1 smiley?  Could not reinstating the log also enable this owner to continue requiring what he doesn't have the right to require and making geocaching more of a pain or frustration for others in the future?

I never had my find log deleted because I didn't find the cache in the way the owner intended. But if it happened, and reinstating the log would lead to another deletion, I would definitely contact GS. Not because of a single find, but out of principle. If one owner gets away with doing it, others might get ideas (and I know a handful of owner in my area whoc would love to delete "improper" logs).

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3 hours ago, lisboa_bruno said:

Oh a similar but different note if the CO deletes the log even if the logsheet has been signed, nothing rude or insulting in the log but deleted then messaged to ask for more details how it was solved before being allowed to relog it as a find, whats the rules on this action?

From what I read on the guidelines and from other cachers if the logsheet is signed it counts as a find regardless of how it was solved or even found.

Oh yes and there is photographic evidence it has been signed with all exif removed.

59 minutes ago, lisboa_bruno said:

I have solved a few of this CO puzzles up to know and this one seems that is very picky who logs it, I am not planning to take it future but at the same time I have put all his unsolved or found caches on the back burner even the ones I have made progress in solving. Basically removed from my map but adding to the ignore list, I know the CO and met a fair few times but now doesn't even say "hi" clearly telling me that he knows he was wrong. High road, its a game if people can't see that do something else and let us enjoy the game also many more caches tyo find out there :D

55 minutes ago, niraD said:

If he's doing it to you, then he's probably doing it to others. I'd report him to Groundspeak and get my log reinstated, and I'd log more of his puzzles to make sure he lets those logs stand. If he quits in a huff, well, no big loss.

If a CO asked "how" I did a cache at an event in conversation, I'd tell them, maybe carefully, since I haven't done one dishonestly to make a clear-thinking person believe there's an issue.  The few we had issues with were on pmo caches and repeated emails.  If someone's coming off as an anal jerk, I won't respond.  Who would on someone with control issues?

I agree on reporting, though often just mentioning a report to the site gets the guy to wise up, and had that happen with us.  But I admit, I'll sometimes test those kinda folk's patience and beliefs if improper too.   :D

 

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1 hour ago, lisboa_bruno said:

He is well known for deleting logs which haven't been signed as well as pumping out D5 caches which is it hasn't been signed it's fair do's to delete, I am just confirming what I read in the guidelines when i signed up and that nothing has changed on this subject.

There are plenty of other caches I can solve and find and first time I have ever used the ignore feature so I don't waste my time if he does it again.

I'm well known for deleting logs that haven't been signed l.  I don't feel it fair to others who actually did access and sign those caches to allow others to log because they might have been in the area...  Those who really did those caches appreciate that as well.    :)

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1 hour ago, baer2006 said:

I never had my find log deleted because I didn't find the cache in the way the owner intended. But if it happened, and reinstating the log would lead to another deletion, I would definitely contact GS. Not because of a single find, but out of principle. If one owner gets away with doing it, others might get ideas (and I know a handful of owner in my area whoc would love to delete "improper" logs).

Ditto.

It's fine if he deletes online logs when there is no physical signature. More power to him.

It is definitely NOT fine if he deletes valid online logs because his ALR wasn't met, or because the finder didn't contact the CO. Then it becomes about more than getting my smiley reinstated.

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Nothing on the cache page or puzzle regarding ALR, this is totally a ego trip on the CO part. Many more fish (geocaches) in the sea (world) to catch (find) ;-)

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Yep. And that's when all the "It's just a game!" arguments come out -- to try to pursuade the other person to relent, which, ironically, they are also doing to you. In an argument that's all about "just a game", it ultimately is a battle of who's more stubborn, or who takes the humble road first (if the issue doesn't escalate to be resolved or shut down by a third party).  It's a pet peeve when people sling that "it's just a game" cliche as an attempt to defend their own position :P Don't they realize the irony? heh  Admit that it's more than 'just a game' to you as well, or be humble and cede the 'battle' to the other person. One or the other :)

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I won't lie it does annoy me that some play the game like this, but at least its a small percentage have a ego trip from deleting valid logs and playing by their own rules.

For me geocaching is a get away from work and general life and not going to make it a personal issue as I like to enjoy it as game not competition with everyone else.

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11 hours ago, lisboa_bruno said:

Not worth the hassle for one smiley face personally, just wanted others views and confirmation about the understanding of the rules and guidelines.

If you're asserting said cache owner was trying to enforce some kind of ALR on a cache other than one that allows ALR's (virtual and EC) I wouldn't even bat an eye. I would ignore the email and immediately relog the find. If it gets deleted again, appeal it. Of course, that's assuming your name is really on the log.

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I would post the photo of the signed logsheet here however it will directly point to CO and I don't want to sink to his level, but yes definitly signed 100%.

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Today DNF in GC6PQ1X - Zdravá voda from geoPetros , publish listing 08/22/2016,

total 31 logs, owner login "Found it" 01/26/2017 #851 (26. januára 2017 10:01),

after asking about this phenomenon, the private message with owner cache was not found, DELETE ?!
Cache archive
08/07/2018 , messages automatic delete from my message-box ?!
Very strange things happen lately, messages not loadet JPG picture, message not saved, is it normal  ?

,

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On 8/7/2018 at 9:36 AM, ohaj said:

Today DNF in GC6PQ1X - Zdravá voda from geoPetros , publish listing 08/22/2016,

total 31 logs, owner login "Found it" 01/26/2017 #851 (26. januára 2017 10:01),

after asking about this phenomenon, the private message with owner cache was not found, DELETE ?!
Cache archive
08/07/2018 , messages automatic delete from my message-box ?!
Very strange things happen lately, messages not loadet JPG picture, message not saved, is it normal  ?

,

FYI -- geoPetros adopted the cache on 11/09/2017.  They were not the owner when they logged a Found It on 1/26/2017.  The cache was owned by Zuzulik111.

 

The weirdness with the message center, I have no idea.

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On 27/02/2018 at 3:47 PM, lisboa_bruno said:

Not worth the hassle for one smiley face personally, just wanted others views and confirmation about the understanding of the rules and guidelines.

 

I've had the experience once where my log was wrongly deleted.  I was also accused of doing things I didn't do ("destroying" a cache).    For me, while it wasn't the end of the world, it bothered me.  Still does.   It isn't the one smiley which is the issue, it is the principle.   In my case I appealed and had my log reinstated.   That made me feel slightly better,  so for me it was worth it.   Though I would have preferred an apology from the CO.   (I tried working with the CO to convince him before the appeal, but that wasn't successful.

 

So yeah, you have to weigh up the "hassle" vs. how you feel.

 

  

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Thanks for the explanation. I have just discovered that the problem with the impossibility of accessing the messages was stupidly caused by Mozilla, but Google Chrome is reading everything. Unfortunately, now I'm solving some problems with the logging of TB logging in Považská Bystrica / SLOVAKIA, I entered the logged-in, the kids chose and did not log in and I have only pictures from the site - wait or contact the owner?!

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