What is Good about Pokeman Go that could enhance your Geocaching Experience?

[+Mudfrog]

Maybe I missed something, but do any of the original post's suggestions takes in to account the cache owner? It's all about making it encouraging scoring, competition, getting the next smiley. If these suggestions were implemented we risk losing the few quality cache hiders we have left.

 

Although not officially implemented, scoring, competition, getting smilies are what seem to be pushed by GS and players alike these days. Quality, creativity, and nice locations are dwindling because they are no longer important to today's players.

 

And i agree, the big reason the new game is popular is because it has Pokemon in its title. Right now it's big but like most other once popular apps, it's appeal will diminish after a while. It'll probably happen quickly when something similar (Ninja Turtles, Legos, Star Wars) comes out!

[+wmpastor]

...

 

There have been reports of people making poor choices while playing Pokemon and there have been reports of people making poor choices while caching. As far as I know, Groundspeak has never issued a press release about the latter so it would seem a bit presumptuous to do so in response to Pokemon. The press that I have seen describing people being shot at playing Pokemon late at night, falling off cliffs, driving into trees, or describing problems with playing Pokemon at various locations have not mentioned this game - although we have had similar occurrences. Sometimes it's best to leave well enough alone.

 

Agreed that a press release would do more harm than good. PG can't possibly keep the momentum, so things should quiet down soon.

 

And to stay with the original question, don't change Caching at all.

[+Mudfrog]

Like narcissa, i've seen more negative PG newscasts than positive. Just saw a couple of nights ago, that some of the local cemeteries have actually had to place signs forbidding PG play inside their grounds.

 

Geocaching has some of the same problems with its players but i believe more problems surface more quickly with PG because of two things. The first, because of the influx of players. More people, more problems, more noticeable.

 

The second, a lot of young people playing who don't realize potential consequences of their actions, who are not as responsible, and who are just outright "happy go lucky" with an "anything goes" attitude.

 

On topic, we already have enough competitiveness going on with geocaching. No thank you to any of the ideas mentioned.

[+wmpastor]

If we can find a friendly consensus, it would seem to be:

 

•don't change Caching.

 

The concern with caching's reputation is good. Will PG hurt caching? We can agree to disagree. Meanwhile, I'm sure management is keeping an eye on things.

 

No worries here.

 

Edit: I passed a church earlier, and the comment on their outdoor announcement board was "Pokemon Welcome."

Edited July 17, 2016 by wmpastor

[+Manville Possum]

I'm sorry, but I just don't understand why we are considered stupid now because we started playing another game that is not geocaching.

 

The stupid thing is not to play a game but it's stupid e.g. to break into a house at night with the intent to catch a Pokemon and getting shot, it's stupid to run into a car while hunting a Pokemon and it's stupid to drive into a tree because playing Pokemon. It's stupid to run into a church and shout around there etc

 

I'm confident that if people like you play Pokemon Go, it's not causing issues like the above. However as I said many people (and in particular children) are not attracted into Pokemon Go who not have your background.

 

I don't think you understand that Pokemon Go is played outside. I'm more likely getting shot while geocaching. Not all geocaches are placed with permission, and many of them, like the ones that I enjoy best are in hunting areas such as National Forests.

[+Manville Possum]

If we can find a friendly consensus, it would seem to be:

 

•don't change Caching.

 

The concern with caching's reputation is good. Will PG hurt caching? We can agree to disagree. Meanwhile, I'm sure management is keeping an eye on things.

 

No worries here.

 

Edit: I passed a church earlier, and the comment on their outdoor announcement board was "Pokemon Welcome."

 

At our home Church the youth pastor is a big PG player, the Church is listed as a gym and I have three geocaches on the property. A traditional, a multi, and a ? type.

[+dprovan]

My suggestion for improving the game to make more like are pokemon are impossible to implement as unlike pokemon, geocaching relies on volunteers.

I think the real difference is that geocaching relies on people. It's immaterial whether they're volunteers. PG relies on automation.

[+wmpastor]

If we can find a friendly consensus, it would seem to be:

 

•don't change Caching.

 

The concern with caching's reputation is good. Will PG hurt caching? We can agree to disagree. Meanwhile, I'm sure management is keeping an eye on things.

 

No worries here.

 

Edit: I passed a church earlier, and the comment on their outdoor announcement board was "Pokemon Welcome."

 

At our home Church the youth pastor is a big PG player, the Church is listed as a gym and I have three geocaches on the property. A traditional, a multi, and a ? type.

 

There ya go.

 

[+narcissa]

If we can find a friendly consensus, it would seem to be:

 

•don't change Caching.

 

The concern with caching's reputation is good. Will PG hurt caching? We can agree to disagree. Meanwhile, I'm sure management is keeping an eye on things.

 

No worries here.

 

Edit: I passed a church earlier, and the comment on their outdoor announcement board was "Pokemon Welcome."

 

That's nice.

 

But what about the places where it isn't welcome and it's happening anyway?

[+SwineFlew]

My suggestion for improving the game to make more like are pokemon are impossible to implement as unlike pokemon, geocaching relies on volunteers.

I think the real difference is that geocaching relies on people. It's immaterial whether they're volunteers. PG relies on automation.

No...you are wrong. Many of the points on PG was relies on volunteers in a different game, Ingress. Ingress is the base game that PG started from. I had send in some church locations info and Ingress ok it and its still up and running. In my area, there are many park benches that got names on them and many of them are portals in the game of Ingress and all of those was started by people... Not automation at all. I am not sure how many of those portals are use in PG but my friend that play that game said there are a few of them in the game of PG.

 

From the very get go of this thread... PG is Ingress but just a different ways of playing it.

[+Wet Pancake Touring Club]

To answer the OP's original question, I don't know of anything goo about Pokemon Go that would enhance my Geocaching experience. I do have two points that I would like to make.

 

My first point is regarding the direction that Pokemon Go might take, or be taken. On a flight last Thursday, I sat next to someone from MGM and his wife. They were playing PG, and I mentioned that I was a geocacher. Turns out they were also long time geocachers. But the other thing he mentioned was that MGM was already looking into ways to use PG to promote MGM properties and events. I'm afraid that PG has a serious potential to become very commercial.

 

Also, I wonder how PG stays current on locations of Points of Interest. There is one listed at the university where I work. However it was torn down two years ago. To get to that location now would involve entering a construction area. Does PG have a way to enter corrections or updates? At least with Geocaching, the user community can write notes, disable listings, etc.

[+MartyBartfast]

...

 

It's also not logical to conclude that because some participants don't run into cars or trees and respect private property that most or all are playing the game safely.

 

I agree. But my observations and my review of the news media reports leads me to conclude that *most* PG players are playing the game in a safe and harmless manner. It's true that i haven't observed every PG player. But I do know what we do *not* see in the media. If there were thousands of arrests, accidents, near-accidents, documented police reports, etc., we'd know about it. Ain't happening. Also, vast numbers of people have video cameras with them, and only isolated reports are coming in.

 

wmpastor is right, given the huge numbers of people who are already playing this game if only %1 were being irresponsible then there would be hundreds of thousands of incidents and I suspect the media would be all over it even more than they are now.

 

There's also nothing to suggest that PG players are, on the whole, more irresponsible than cachers. Over the years I've seen reports of cachers getting into trouble (stuck up trees, stuck in mud, being rescued from the water), which only represents a tiny percentage of the caching population. The difference here is the huge numbers of PG players (I read one estimate of 9.5 million active players a day!) so a tiny percentage of that population will generate a noticable number of incidents, and add to that the media is already on the bandwagon and we're bound to see many reports of incidents at the moment, but that doesn't mean PG players are irresponsible as a group.

 

BTW I don't do PG, I have the same attitude of my 19 year old daughter, when I asked her if she had tried it she said "No, because I'm not 10 years old"

[+narcissa]

 

I agree. But my observations and my review of the news media reports leads me to conclude that *most* PG players are playing the game in a safe and harmless manner. It's true that i haven't observed every PG player. But I do know what we do *not* see in the media. If there were thousands of arrests, accidents, near-accidents, documented police reports, etc., we'd know about it. Ain't happening. Also, vast numbers of people have video cameras with them, and only isolated reports are coming in.

 

wmpastor is right, given the huge numbers of people who are already playing this game if only %1 were being irresponsible then there would be hundreds of thousands of incidents and I suspect the media would be all over it even more than they are now.

 

There's also nothing to suggest that PG players are, on the whole, more irresponsible than cachers. Over the years I've seen reports of cachers getting into trouble (stuck up trees, stuck in mud, being rescued from the water), which only represents a tiny percentage of the caching population. The difference here is the huge numbers of PG players (I read one estimate of 9.5 million active players a day!) so a tiny percentage of that population will generate a noticable number of incidents, and add to that the media is already on the bandwagon and we're bound to see many reports of incidents at the moment, but that doesn't mean PG players are irresponsible as a group.

 

BTW I don't do PG, I have the same attitude of my 19 year old daughter, when I asked her if she had tried it she said "No, because I'm not 10 years old"

 

The proportion of players causing incidents is completely irrelevant.

 

Unfortunately, some forum commenters are still working from a disingenuous misinterpretation of my words. I did not ever suggest that a high or low proportion of players are causing incidents. I am a statistician by trade so that sort of conjecture isn't something I would do, and it is disappointing that this willful misinterpretation is persisting.

 

The fact of the matter is that regardless of proportion relative to the population, non-players hear about these incidents very quickly, and they become the basis of opinions and the reactions that follow.

 

It's unfortunate that others are so cavalier about the possible ramifications, but that is usually the case with any issue and in general it's the barrier that prevents geocaching from being a better game.

[+wmpastor]

...

 

BTW I don't do PG, I have the same attitude of my 19 year old daughter, when I asked her if she had tried it she said "No, because I'm not 10 years old"

 

LOL, your daughter is mature beyond her years.

 

I see a lot of high school kids playing it - and suddenly walking 3-5 miles a day. (Yay!) After my phone had been borrowed, I found the app loaded on the phone. I had walked with a group before, but here was my chance to give it a try. But when I walked into a store, suddenly I was aware of being in public with strange creatures flitting around on the screen.

[+wmpastor]

...

Unfortunately, some forum commenters are still working from a disingenuous misinterpretation of my words. I did not ever suggest that a high or low proportion of players are causing incidents. I am a statistician by trade so that sort of conjecture isn't something I would do, and it is disappointing that this willful misinterpretation is persisting.

...

[/Quote]

 

I, for one, understand (I think) and respect (definitely) your views. In my opinion, anti-PG concerns (in general or caching-related) are overblown. My comments were directed to all, not just to you. And I don't try to characterize your views - you state them articulately yourself.

 

...

The fact of the matter is that regardless of proportion relative to the population, non-players hear about these incidents very quickly, and they become the basis of opinions and the reactions that follow.

 

It's unfortunate that others are so cavalier about the possible ramifications....

[/Quote]

 

I completely agree that the reputation of Caching is important, given that it is played in public. I don't dismiss concerns about PG, I simply disagree that they're as serious as some believe. And I think that within two months PG will continue to be popular, but no longer the same news item.

 

I say these things to affirm that I hope for a friendly, respectful discussion all around, even with the different views out there.

 

And now it's time for me to focus on my day job.

[+MartyBartfast]

The fact of the matter is that regardless of proportion relative to the population, non-players hear about these incidents very quickly, and they become the basis of opinions and the reactions that follow.

 

Well if that's the case, then the impact of PG players doing stupid things is no different to the impact of Geocachers doing stupid things, so why are you attacking the PG players so vehemently? As someone else pointed out (I think) I've yet to hear of a PG player causing a bridge/road/park to be closed because of a suspicious device, and I haven't seen any Pikachu being blown up by Bomb disposal on the TV reports.

[+narcissa]

The fact of the matter is that regardless of proportion relative to the population, non-players hear about these incidents very quickly, and they become the basis of opinions and the reactions that follow.

 

Well if that's the case, then the impact of PG players doing stupid things is no different to the impact of Geocachers doing stupid things, so why are you attacking the PG players so vehemently? As someone else pointed out (I think) I've yet to hear of a PG player causing a bridge/road/park to be closed because of a suspicious device, and I haven't seen any Pikachu being blown up by Bomb disposal on the TV reports.

 

Again, as I have stated repeatedly, geocaching clearly already has its hands full with our own issues and poor behaviour from players among our ranks. Now that geocaching is being conflated with other GPS-based games with their own issues, I am concerned that we will lose ground and geocaching will be banned from even more spaces.

 

This is not an attack on any other players or their games. I am astonished and disappointed that my statements continue to be willfully misrepresented in such a needlessly antagonistic way.

[+narcissa]

anti-PG concerns

 

It's disappointing that you continue to summarize concerns about the impact on geocaching as "anti-PG."

[+hzoi]

I don't have an issue with Pokemon Go. After all, I'm a grown man who hunts for tupperware in the woods. It's a bit of a glass house; even if I am looking for actual containers* and not virtual critters, it's all the same to someone who has no interest in either.

 

If nothing else, with all the media hype surrounding Pokemon Go, now I can just say I'm doing that instead of explaining geocaching the next time someone asks what I was doing in the woodline. Saves me time and breath.

 

*edit 1: can't even apply this argument to virtuals, webcams, and earthcaches!

 

edit 2: seems to me that this app actually realizes the dreams that ended up being born as the clunky Wherigo cache experience.

Edited July 18, 2016 by hzoi

[+NYPaddleCacher]

The fact of the matter is that regardless of proportion relative to the population, non-players hear about these incidents very quickly, and they become the basis of opinions and the reactions that follow.

 

Well if that's the case, then the impact of PG players doing stupid things is no different to the impact of Geocachers doing stupid things, so why are you attacking the PG players so vehemently? As someone else pointed out (I think) I've yet to hear of a PG player causing a bridge/road/park to be closed because of a suspicious device, and I haven't seen any Pikachu being blown up by Bomb disposal on the TV reports.

 

Pokemon Strike! Instead of flicking a ball to capture Pikachu and other Pokemon characters, when you see one on the screen, just press the "Strike!" button and a missile will launch that will blow up the Pokemon character into a million pixels.

 

 

[+dprovan]

I think the real difference is that geocaching relies on people. It's immaterial whether they're volunteers. PG relies on automation.

No...you are wrong. Many of the points on PG was relies on volunteers in a different game, Ingress. Ingress is the base game that PG started from. I had send in some church locations info and Ingress ok it and its still up and running.

I know nothing about how Ingress spots were approved nor how spots created for the adult game Ingress were vetted for PQ, a game much more attractive to children, so I can't say to what degree these processes were automated, although given the volume, I'd guess that a significant portion of both did not involve a human decision maker. But I was thinking of the actual pokemon hunts, which I don't believe have anything to do with a human.

 

Unfortunately, some forum commenters are still working from a disingenuous misinterpretation of my words. I did not ever suggest that a high or low proportion of players are causing incidents. I am a statistician by trade so that sort of conjecture isn't something I would do, and it is disappointing that this willful misinterpretation is persisting.

I appreciate your math based neutrality, but I, on the other hand, feel free to speculate. And I see geocaching, with a long history of avoiding even being detected, then, in addition, with a heavy emphasis on minimizing geocaching's impact of others, and I'm comparing it with PQ, a new game with no history and where participants consider the hunt the most important thing in their current reality. After all, the phrase is "you got to catch them all", not "you got to catch the ones you can catch without impacting the people around you." Even in the geocaching world, with its history, training, and the fact that it's mostly adults, we have trouble with people being blind to problems they cause others when geocaching, so I don't need to look at statistics to guess that there are many reasons to think there will be even more problems with that even when we look at it on a per participant basis.

 

Even with that, I don't claim there is a problem with PQ, I merely observe that there are good reasons to think there could be problems, and anyone claiming my observation is anti-PQ is just ignoring reality.

[+MartyBartfast]

 

This is not an attack on any other players or their games. I am astonished and disappointed that my statements continue to be willfully misrepresented in such a needlessly antagonistic way.

 

Well your reply here http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=340192&view=findpost&p=5596401 was pretty antagonistic if you ask me.

 

... this insipid nonsense ... It is a trainwreck ...

[+narcissa]

 

This is not an attack on any other players or their games. I am astonished and disappointed that my statements continue to be willfully misrepresented in such a needlessly antagonistic way.

 

Well your reply here http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=340192&view=findpost&p=5596401 was pretty antagonistic if you ask me.

 

... this insipid nonsense ... It is a trainwreck ...

 

Yes, the litany of issues constitute a trainwreck that geocaching should be distancing itself - not borrowing - from. I have often used equal strong words to describe the poor behaviour of inconsiderate geocachers who put the game at risk. We have enough of our own bomb threats, bad driving, and other stupidity to deal with, and now we're being conflated with mistakes from someone else's game. Due to the viral popularity of the new game, I think it's highly likely that we'll see more doors closed to us, not because of anything geocachers have done, but because we'll be swept up in new bans on GPS-based games. It would have been nice to see Groundspeak try to get in front of this issue before it's too late to differentiate ourselves.

 

I can't comment on the actual content of the game itself because I haven't tried it. My comments are about the poor behaviour of some players that, regardless of actual volume, is highly present in the media right now, alongside comparisons with the game I do play.

[+wmpastor]

Good qualities of PG? That it has virtual battles rather than forum battles??

 

[+NancyCache]

But when I read about and Tried Pokemon Go, I immediately thought of doing both While I was out and about anyway.

 

Is that possible?

 

I see that the challenge you would have with playing Pokémon Go (PG) and Geocaching is that there may be far too many muggles around to even think about geocaching. I experienced this the other day when I went with my son to PG and there were about 200 people in a 2 block radius, all looking at their phones playing PG. If I had ducked into the woods to find a geocache, I'm sure there would have people following me, thinking there were Pokémon to be found, and the cache could have been messed with.

[+Manville Possum]

But when I read about and Tried Pokemon Go, I immediately thought of doing both While I was out and about anyway.

 

Is that possible?

 

I see that the challenge you would have with playing Pokémon Go (PG) and Geocaching is that there may be far too many muggles around to even think about geocaching. I experienced this the other day when I went with my son to PG and there were about 200 people in a 2 block radius, all looking at their phones playing PG. If I had ducked into the woods to find a geocache, I'm sure there would have people following me, thinking there were Pokémon to be found, and the cache could have been messed with.

 

I had a similar experience last night. There were maybe more than 200 people in a two block radius playing PG, and I was able to check on a few geocaches without being noticed. Most PokeStops were already listed as Waymarks, so I don't think the PG players (and I am one of them) will notice geocachers or follow them into the woods. I think you are way off that PG players would mess with a geocache that they have no interest in.

[team.moo]

My suggestion for improving the game to make more like are pokemon are impossible to implement as unlike pokemon, geocaching relies on volunteers.

I think the real difference is that geocaching relies on people. It's immaterial whether they're volunteers. PG relies on automation.

No...you are wrong. Many of the points on PG was relies on volunteers in a different game, Ingress. Ingress is the base game that PG started from. I had send in some church locations info and Ingress ok it and its still up and running. In my area, there are many park benches that got names on them and many of them are portals in the game of Ingress and all of those was started by people... Not automation at all. I am not sure how many of those portals are use in PG but my friend that play that game said there are a few of them in the game of PG.

 

From the very get go of this thread... PG is Ingress but just a different ways of playing it.

 

Yes you are right, I was aware of that but the difference is (as I understand it) once an Ingress player uploaded a location, that location stays there ready for everyone to find, that player no longer needed to have anything to do regarding that location. Unlike a cache where there is no guarantee it will still be there from one day to the next and its owner has to maintain it.

[+dprovan]

But when I read about and Tried Pokemon Go, I immediately thought of doing both While I was out and about anyway.

 

Is that possible?

They seem conceptually quite compatible. In practice, though, I have enough trouble geocaching and benchmarking at the same time, and those are much more similar and use the same app on the same device.

 

I see that the challenge you would have with playing Pokémon Go (PG) and Geocaching is that there may be far too many muggles around to even think about geocaching.

Well, I'd claim that's an argument for doing both at the same time, since the PG players will be there regardless of whether you yourself are playing PG at the moment, but if you play PG while geocaching, you'll know what's going on the PG reality and can adjust your geocaching activities accordingly.

[+narcissa]

Something interesting that I've noticed is that people seem to be more inclined to walk from place to place while playing this new game. I've often thought it was a bit of a shame that geocaching often ends up being more car-based than it needs to be. I don't know anything about the actual game play experience or why it promotes walking more than our game does, but it's something to think about.

[+Wet Pancake Touring Club]

Something interesting that I've noticed is that people seem to be more inclined to walk from place to place while playing this new game. I've often thought it was a bit of a shame that geocaching often ends up being more car-based than it needs to be. I don't know anything about the actual game play experience or why it promotes walking more than our game does, but it's something to think about.

My opinion is that it is possible in locations that would be almost impossible to hide a cache, it doesn't have the 528 foot requirement, and it doesn't seem to have any restrictions on where it is allowed. Therefore, it has a higher density. (My God, did I just describe a power trail on steroids with an automated cache placement feature?)

[+Manville Possum]

Something interesting that I've noticed is that people seem to be more inclined to walk from place to place while playing this new game. I've often thought it was a bit of a shame that geocaching often ends up being more car-based than it needs to be. I don't know anything about the actual game play experience or why it promotes walking more than our game does, but it's something to think about.

 

You have to walk to PokeStops to get items used in the game, like the Pokeballs used to catch Pokemon's with. Lure modules can be deployed at those stops to attract Pokemon to catch, and there is a radar compass that shows Pokemon in your proximity that you can find by walking to them, just like finding a geocache location.

 

I'm seeing 100's of people playing PG at night, it's really a strange site. I have a couple of two mile loops that we are walking each evening.

Best thing I'm seeing about PG is my blood sugar levels.

[+narcissa]

Something interesting that I've noticed is that people seem to be more inclined to walk from place to place while playing this new game. I've often thought it was a bit of a shame that geocaching often ends up being more car-based than it needs to be. I don't know anything about the actual game play experience or why it promotes walking more than our game does, but it's something to think about.

My opinion is that it is possible in locations that would be almost impossible to hide a cache, it doesn't have the 528 foot requirement, and it doesn't seem to have any restrictions on where it is allowed. Therefore, it has a higher density. (My God, did I just describe a power trail on steroids with an automated cache placement feature?)

 

Or maybe a really intense multi.

[+wmpastor]

The PG game experience has more things happening much more quickly, by far, than caching. That's the biggest difference in the nature of the experience. However, if you choose not to cash in on every strategic opportunity in PG, you can do that and not be penalized, unlike some computer games or video games.

 

Caching relies on the beauty of nature, the relaxing walk, or whatever "carrots" you select - FTFs, filling in a grid, increasing your find count, socializing while caching, etc.

 

In general, caching is more focused on the actual surroundings, and unfolds more slowly than PG. PG's faster pace resembles other electronic games, but yet does require movement and thus generates exercise.

[+Understandblue]

I don't see Pokemon Go as a competitor or a complement, but as a nuisance. Please, allow me to explain. Groundspeak/Geocaching emphasizes safety and respect in regards to trespassing, laws, CITO, etc. This insanely popular Pokemon Go game has people out in droves, clambering to chase down as many of these characters as possible with little to no regard (sometimes even blatant disregard) to private property, trespassing, etc., essentially giving us all a bad name. Yes, there are jerks in every organization; I get that. The fervor at which these Pokemon'ers compete has many doing really, really stupid things. Just locally we had a Pokemoner photographed on his motorcycle, barreling at high speeds into and on our hiking/cycling trail system. Not only does this destroy the trails, but it's extremely dangerous as kids, elderly, and everyone else use these trails. Trail users were yelling at him to stop and he just screamed about Pokemon and ignored their pleas. I'm happy to report that nobody was injured and the perp was caught by police after calls came in and his bike was impounded. Yes, one example, one bad seed. However, you can scan the news sites and find plenty of Pokemon examples, like the 15yr old, Arthur Digsby, that was shot and killed in NC yesterday for trespassing while chasing a Pokemon. I too have witnessed swarms of players trample gardens on our university grounds.

 

My wife, who doesn't cache, thinks Pokemon Go and Geocaching are one in the same. I worry that's what the general public may think as well and therefore tie the poor behavior to all GPS/smartphone scavenger hunt "games."

 

There are a bazillion instances of new geocachers destroying things, trespassing, etc. The culture develops over time and is enhanced by community feedback, and so will virtual games evolve. I see PG as an opportunity to introduce people to geocaching. The funsquashing around this game has been astonishing. Anything that gets people outside, moving around, and going to places of significance in their community shouldn't be dismissed if you love geocaching, IMHO. They are very similar in spirit. If people are going to make bad choices, they will make them whether they are geocachers, PGers, Munzeers, etc.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Understandblue

[+x_xenolith_x]

My Garmin cannot find the pokiman stuff. Why is the thread included?

[+wmpastor]

My Garmin cannot find the pokiman stuff. Why is the thread included?

 

You still use a GPSr???

Why the thread? To discuss how Pokemon could influence caching for the better. Not at all, is the consensus. Then there was discussion about whether PG would put caching in a bad light, based on incidents involving PG players. Numerous posts noted that PG gets people moving, with measurable health benefits cited.

[+wmpastor]

 

There are a bazillion instances of new geocachers destroying things, trespassing, etc. The culture develops over time and is enhanced by community feedback, and so will virtual games evolve. I see PG as an opportunity to introduce people to geocaching. The funsquashing around this game has been astonishing. Anything that gets people outside, moving around, and going to places of significance in their community shouldn't be dismissed if you love geocaching, IMHO. They are very similar in spirit. If people are going to make bad choices, they will make them whether they are geocachers, PGers, Munzeers, etc.

 

I agree with most of this, and would add that the media have made PG problems seem more extensive than they are - that's what "sells newspapers."

 

Prepare for "Green versus Blue" - you'll see what I mean!

[+Manville Possum]

My Garmin cannot find the pokiman stuff. Why is the thread included?

 

What is a Garmin? Which app are you using?

[+niraD]

Prepare for "Green versus Blue" - you'll see what I mean!

I'm lost. I'm pretty sure you don't mean blue/green deployment. What is this "Green versus Blue" that one might prepare for?

[+FlyBryFly]

I don't see Pokemon Go as a competitor or a complement, but as a nuisance. Please, allow me to explain. Groundspeak/Geocaching emphasizes safety and respect in regards to trespassing, laws, CITO, etc. This insanely popular Pokemon Go game has people out in droves, clambering to chase down as many of these characters as possible with little to no regard (sometimes even blatant disregard) to private property, trespassing, etc., essentially giving us all a bad name. Yes, there are jerks in every organization; I get that.

 

I think the scale is the problem. There are too many people playing this new game. The number of geocachers who do all of what you complained about above PLUS leave geo-litter is large enough that some parks have already banned geocaching. Now multiple that by 100! It really doesn't matter what activity people decide to do outside. If millions of people took up juggling, the number of bowling pins and tennis balls that were left behind or rolled into traffic would be a big concern.

 

I read there are 3 million active GeoCachers. In less than a month, there are 21 million active Pokemon GO players. My wife and I are hooked. I always wondered what the incentive could be to return to a GeoCache other than a travel bug or an interesting location. Pokemon GO has the answer. We look forward to seeing how long the craze lasts.

[+TheVoytekBear]

There are already gossips about making all McDonalds POIs for PG in Japan. That's exactly the stuff I don't want to see happen to geocaching.

[+cerberus1]

There are already gossips about making all McDonalds POIs for PG in Japan. That's exactly the stuff I don't want to see happen to geocaching.

GCGJ53

 

- But I agree.

That's why I'd like it to remain in Waymarking

[+wmpastor]

Prepare for "Green versus Blue" - you'll see what I mean!

I'm lost. I'm pretty sure you don't mean blue/green deployment. What is this "Green versus Blue" that one might prepare for?

As for the Blue, my comment was to Understandblue, whose forum picture is mostly blue. Her views are very different than those of another active forum member who in her forum picture is wearing Green. Spirited debate to follow.

Edited July 20, 2016 by wmpastor

[+wmpastor]

There are already gossips about making all McDonalds POIs for PG in Japan. That's exactly the stuff I don't want to see happen to geocaching.

 

That's okay - caching takes place in McDonalds parking lots!

[ohgood]

There are already gossips about making all McDonalds POIs for PG in Japan. That's exactly the stuff I don't want to see happen to geocaching.

 

why not just avoid the caches you don't like, And let people cache, pg, loiter if they like, at McDonald's?

[+Understandblue]

Something interesting that I've noticed is that people seem to be more inclined to walk from place to place while playing this new game. I've often thought it was a bit of a shame that geocaching often ends up being more car-based than it needs to be. I don't know anything about the actual game play experience or why it promotes walking more than our game does, but it's something to think about.

 

There are things you can only achieve by walking certain distances - so there are 2 KM eggs, 5 KM eggs, 10KM eggs - that can only be hatched by walking those distances. I've seen more kids walking outside in the past month than in the 10 years I've lived on this street!

[+Manville Possum]

There are already gossips about making all McDonalds POIs for PG in Japan. That's exactly the stuff I don't want to see happen to geocaching.

GCGJ53

 

- But I agree.

That's why I'd like it to remain in Waymarking

 

We have two geocaches on McDonalds propertys. I'm also doing a little Waymarking while playing PG. Most every PokeStop is already a listed WM.

[+thebruce0]

Big post!

 

Ok so I've had PG for two days, after being out for just over a week. Here's my experience and some thoughts...

 

I'm now closing in on level 17. Why? I live next to a park - and one in which I've never seen so much late night activity.

I discovered that the park is as active as an average day, after 11pm - even to 2am - but with people (mostly groups, from teens to adults) wandering around (sometimes running around), tracing the paths with smartphones in their hands or congregating at various spots. Cheers echo from the other end of the park when someone captures something rare or a creature they were looking for, or throes of frustration if it gets away. There are always people moving - there are eggs you can only hatch at walking (or biking) speeds after traveling for 2km, 5km, or 10km points (the latter rewarding with more rare creatures); it keeps you moving (and it doesn't reset if you stop, it's additive, a passive feature).

And it's quite social (at least today's interpretation of social, which doesn't ignore the existence of technology in hand)

 

One social aspect is that creatures are in fact a shared asset - that is, if you see it pop up on your device, it's also popping up on other devices, though your effort to capture is entirely independent of others' (it's not first come first to capture, not competitive, everyone can capture for themselves; no FTFs).

This is the draw of lures - if someone places a lure on a location, then many more pokemon can show up during that half hour - for everyone. So groups gather at the lures to share and reap the benefits. When someone across the park cheers because they caught some creature, others may go running to try to grab it as well before it disappears. On the map, at parks for example, if you look at a distance and you see 2 or 3 stops with lures, you may be attracted to those spots (just like pokemon btw ).

 

If there's a gym nearby, this is where the 3 teams come in to play - at a gym occupied by your own team you want to boost its fortitifcation by 'training' against your own team's pokemon that control it, to keep it strong and provide room for more pokemon to hold the fort. The other two teams at the same time may battle the pokemon that control it, weakening it so it can't hold as many pokemon until it crumbles and another team can step in to take control.

 

Just last night at the park when I was about to call it quits after it started getting quiet, I went to one of the two gyms there when it had 1 strong creature holding it. I fought a few times and took control. As I was waiting for a nearby stop to reset, two guys wandered nearby and I noticed that the gym was weakening. So I sat there on my bike (a great TOTT btw) training against my own guy to strengthen the gym while these two fought my guy to weaken it. Of course they eventually won. Then the first actual human words were spoken in that cool dark corner of the park - "congrats on the take down". We had a brief geochat pokechat . Of course I waited around and eventually took over the gym again (which held fast a few hours to this morning due to the very late time).

So yep - there are indeed some social aspects, whether it's a high visibility event having crowds gathering with hundreds of players, or just a few lone individuals wandering around a quiet park at 2am. Actually that one example was very much like going geocaching, getting to gz and spotting someone else attempting to also inconspicuously loiter waiting for an opportunity to search - until someone curiously asks, "...geocaching?"

 

Some thoughts on improvements:

* Other games have already tried many ideas people have suggested to make geocaching better.

* Other games have come and gone, got some spotlight then faded; even if some are still alive with a core community, they're not nearly as popular as when they launched.

* Geocaching on the other hand is a reliable long-lived pastime that never really "grows old" universally, but only may have attention drawn away from it. Nature, for one, never goes out of date.

* Let people play the game that appeals to their gaming style. Geocaching has its foundation, its core methodology, practices, goals, experiences, and target demographic. Let people discover it as it is; don't morph it into something that attempts to come to them, and will eventually be left there abandoned when they move along to something else. There is a place for improvements and embracing technology, but don't change the game. It's a tough judgement call to make, but GS is attempting to do that regularly (whether they do it well or not? YMMV)

 

One downside, PG (and such) can of course attract people away from geocaching, and once they taste what "could be" in a location-based "game", if to them it hits that sweet spot of fun, then they may not come back to geocaching, seeing it as more low-key or less "fun" for them. That segment of the demographic though would be very small, as I think most people could still find value in what geocaching offers on its own merits, in the real world, without the gamified aspects of PG (and such). If only because the core experience of geocaching layers on top of a good, healthy, real world activity (walking/hiking), with minimal impact. The concept is simple, and it doesn't rely on active technology services. A physical container will sit there are long as nature allows it (and its location can be shared any number of ways). Virtual waypoints will sit there as long as the network, company, and its servers are running.

 

The last time I worked with a land manager in a State Park when they were changing their policy on geocaching it was a geocacher that filed a formal complaint on a Park Ranger, and the first formal complaint in her seven year career. That really gave geocaching a black eye, and if not for some employees that were interested in geocaching they would have banned geocaching there at the park.

 

Now, the Pokemon Go players are there walking around not causing ANY problems using the fitness trails. So I fail to see how Pokemon Go is going to cause any problems for geocaching. I still have to fill out my permits and get them approved by the land manager.

Right, in PG's favour, one point it has on property access is that you only need be near a waypoint to interact with it, whereas in geocaching you have to physically traverse the last 20-30m to an actual location, thus potentially trespassing or going off trail to protected nature and such. So I can see on that point why parks may be more willing to embrace PG over geocaching.

 

PG isn't so much about the physical locations though, but virtual POIs in the vicinity of physical locations. Thus there's a much stronger attraction to re-visit a location than with geocaching (if one is there merely to find a geocache). The goal of a visit is virtual with a very real, timely intent.

In geocaching, you find it and you're done, unless you want to return again another time just for the physical location -- Not the same with PG.

But living or working close to a PG-saturated area can keep people playing daily -- Not so with geocaching.

 

There is a scavenger-hunt aspect to capturing pokemon which IMO comes the closest to geocaching in PG as a whole, and that's the hot/cold footprint indicator on the list of nearby pokemon. As you move, you only get a hint of the distance to the closest pokemon. No direction, but as you walk you can see which get closer and farther, so it's sort of like a directionless compass search for a geocache (or someone yelling hot/cold after they found it ).

 

There may be many negative news reports, but there are also many non-players and businesses that are willingly embracing it. As long as the balance doesn't shift to overwhelmingly negative (by 1st hand experience, not just by 3rd party reports), it'll never die.

 

In time the same thing will happen as with other open-ended character improvement/rpg style games - the casuals will thin out while those who play for a living, as it were, will hold the landscape. It's the repetitive gameplay that will lose many people's interest over time but keep the diehards playing, if there are just enough changes and improvements to give them incentive to stick around. That means there has to be some element of competition (not w/geocaching) and a sense of progress/improvement (not w/geocaching, apart from a find count - stats are value-added and imbued with importance by the individual, rather than incentivized and rewarded in the game).

 

Geocaching's attraction has always been primarily about nature and "user-generated content", as it were, as cache owners. That content quality is not really controlled by GS, and that's why it's remained steadfast in its core activity for 16 years, with minor 'modern' adjustments (like souvenirs), and have failed experiments (like Geocaching Challenges) where it tried to be something it's not.

 

Let other games try something new (significant gameplay type things). Let them be established on experimental ideas. Most will not have the lifetime and popularity that geocaching has of 16+ years. Most will start strong and fade to a plateau at which point it's a matter of time before the company running it gives it up.

 

Geocaching on the other hand started small and has grown over 16 years, and it's certainly not at a plateau. It's evolved slightly with some features, but the core concept is not reliant on Groundspeak (the 'listing service') existing, if at any point they give it up. It can persist.

 

There are fundamental opposites between games like PG and geocaching, which in my mind is what makes geocaching stronger than those games, even if at times and for many people, those games can be more fun by offering a different experience.

 

But we always come back to our first lov-- geocaching.

Edited July 20, 2016 by thebruce0

[+Understandblue]

There are already gossips about making all McDonalds POIs for PG in Japan. That's exactly the stuff I don't want to see happen to geocaching.

 

Because LPCs are more exciting?

[+niraD]

As for the Blue, my comment was to Understandblue, whose forum picture is mostly blue. Her views are very different than those of another active forum member who in her forum picture is wearing Green. Spirited debate to follow.

Ah, got it. Thanks. I'm a bit slow picking up on such things at times. (It doesn't help that we've been discussing blue/green deployment at work recently, which took me down a mental rabbit trail immediately.)