Clarification

[+Dame Deco]

 

 

There. Is that better?

 

See, now--I was about to post: here comes the snarky inside joke, then I looked it and…it's from a moderator! What are forum posters to think?

[Cascade Reviewer]

No inside joke whatsoever. I was just stepping in, like asked!

[+Dame Deco]

Hmmm…but I didn't know what you meant. The internet is funny that way.

[Cascade Reviewer]

Just trying for some humor, but I guess my brain doesn't work the same as everyone else. But I should have already known that.

[+Team Microdot]

The internet is funny that way.

 

It's also

[+cerberus1]

No inside joke whatsoever. I was just stepping in, like asked!

Thank you for the relaxing break .

Nice to see humor once in awhile.

Unfortunately, many these days don't seem to get humor.

[knowschad]

Hmmm…but I didn't know what you meant. The internet is funny that way.

 

That's why I made the post that linked the two posts (link). My initial reaction was teh same as yours, but I know Cascade Reviewer better than that.

[+Dame Deco]

Newcomers won't know, right? Humor is hard on the internet because we can't see faces or interpret body language, etc.

[Cascade Reviewer]

I apologize for not quoting the stepping in comment. It was only a couple of comments above my post, so I thought it was recent enough in the conversation to not quote it.

 

I also apologize for not clarifying that I was stepping in, in a humorous way. I was thinking that a joke isn't a joke if you have to explain it too much.

 

I was trying to lighten the thread a bit, it's what I like to do when things get too heavy.

 

If I upset any newcomers with my obscurity, I apologize for that, as well.

[+Dame Deco]

Well, I'm sorry I took it too seriously!

[+Team Microdot]

Group hug?

[knowschad]

I apologize for not quoting the stepping in comment. It was only a couple of comments above my post, so I thought it was recent enough in the conversation to not quote it.

 

I also apologize for not clarifying that I was stepping in, in a humorous way. I was thinking that a joke isn't a joke if you have to explain it too much.

 

I was trying to lighten the thread a bit, it's what I like to do when things get too heavy.

 

If I upset any newcomers with my obscurity, I apologize for that, as well.

 

Would you please apologize for apologizing so much?

[Cascade Reviewer]

So sorry. I'll take that group hug, now.

 

Ok - putting my moderator hat on now - we should probably get back to the original topic of this thread, instead of heading off in the direction of mildly lighthearted confusion.

[+cerberus1]

A perfect example of "walking on egg shells" is a thread just appeared (everywhere apparently...) that has logging methods I feel are unacceptable.

Not as eloquent as most maybe, figure I'll catch myself in a bind by saying "the wrong thing" now, when weeks ago, it wouldn't have bothered me in the least to say how I feel about that.

[+Dame Deco]

A little self examination can be a good thing. Walk on eggshells for a week, think about things, and it'll all slowly go back to normal.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Hmmm…but I didn't know what you meant. The internet is funny that way.

 

I didn't get it either (still don't....wait, is that the drunken bee dance?) so I posted another joke based on her joke.

 

 

[+NYPaddleCacher]

A perfect example of "walking on egg shells" is a thread just appeared (everywhere apparently...) that has logging methods I feel are unacceptable.

Not as eloquent as most maybe, figure I'll catch myself in a bind by saying "the wrong thing" now, when weeks ago, it wouldn't have bothered me in the least to say how I feel about that.

 

I had another walking on egg shells moment when I thought about responding to something posted yesterday about the promotion of smart phone caching but I just couldn't come up with a way to navigate the vast field of eggs between the Reply and Submit buttons without breaking some eggs.

 

No chickens were harmed by this post.

 

 

[+K13]

I thought that was a diagram for this dance....

[+GeoBain]

we should probably get back to the original topic of this thread, instead of heading off in the direction of mildly lighthearted confusion.

 

On the contrary. I think it was a good example of how things are not always as they seem. A lot of times things are said in jest but taken seriously. There is not ill intent, but someone gets upset anyway. This is not just the forums. This is something I have noticed in society as a whole. It almost seems as if people these days seek things to be upset about.

 

As far as the comments about not enough moderation and too much moderation, I would say both are true.

 

A few years back there was really a lack of moderation. So much that trolling got out of control. A certain poster back then really caused a lot of problems and it took a long time before the mods finally stepped in and dealt with the problem. However, in my opinion and this is just my opinion, an over correction occurred. Moderation took a 180 degree turn. I understand why it happened. In fact, at the time, the heavy moderation was needed to get things under control.

 

The problem is that things never lightened up.

 

In my opinion, and I admit that I could very well be wrong, moderation should occur this way. When there outright abuse of users, the mods should step in immediately, publicly, and put a stop to it. If a question has been answered sufficiently and abusive type of piling on occurs, then close the thread as asked and answered. Place the reason for warnings in the thread so others know what was done wrong so they can adjust their behavior accordingly.

 

But with issues of thread drift, take a lighter approach. Not all thread drift is bad. In fact, I would say unless the OP is not happy with the direction the thread takes, then little if any action should be taken.

 

Essentially, if the infraction is not egregious, then take a lighter approach. Understand that just as some feel there are posters who are generally negative overall, there are also posters who are overly sensitive. Find a balance between these two types of posters.

 

If the infraction is egregious, then take immediate action. But it would help if warnings were added to edited posts rather than simply deleting posts. It gets to be confusing when you think you saw a post but then can't find it. It just goes poof.

 

Finally, I really would like to know what subjects are still forbidden and which are ok. There continues to be some contradictory positions about a few words.

 

I understand not allowing someone to use your forum in order to promote a competing product or service. But we should be able to discuss certain topics when relevant as long as we are not promoting them. But if a topic is to be forbidden, then a sticky might help or adding the warnings to edited posts would do the trick.

[+K13]

we should probably get back to the original topic of this thread, instead of heading off in the direction of mildly lighthearted confusion.

 

On the contrary. I think it was a good example of how things are not always as they seem. A lot of times things are said in jest but taken seriously. There is not ill intent, but someone gets upset anyway. This is not just the forums. This is something I have noticed in society as a whole. It almost seems as if people these days seek things to be upset about.

 

As far as the comments about not enough moderation and too much moderation, I would say both are true.

 

A few years back there was really a lack of moderation. So much that trolling got out of control. A certain poster back then really caused a lot of problems and it took a long time before the mods finally stepped in and dealt with the problem. However, in my opinion and this is just my opinion, an over correction occurred. Moderation took a 180 degree turn. I understand why it happened. In fact, at the time, the heavy moderation was needed to get things under control.

 

The problem is that things never lightened up.

 

In my opinion, and I admit that I could very well be wrong, moderation should occur this way. When there outright abuse of users, the mods should step in immediately, publicly, and put a stop to it. If a question has been answered sufficiently and abusive type of piling on occurs, then close the thread as asked and answered. Place the reason for warnings in the thread so others know what was done wrong so they can adjust their behavior accordingly.

 

But with issues of thread drift, take a lighter approach. Not all thread drift is bad. In fact, I would say unless the OP is not happy with the direction the thread takes, then little if any action should be taken.

 

Essentially, if the infraction is not egregious, then take a lighter approach. Understand that just as some feel there are posters who are generally negative overall, there are also posters who are overly sensitive. Find a balance between these two types of posters.

 

If the infraction is egregious, then take immediate action. But it would help if warnings were added to edited posts rather than simply deleting posts. It gets to be confusing when you think you saw a post but then can't find it. It just goes poof.

 

Finally, I really would like to know what subjects are still forbidden and which are ok. There continues to be some contradictory positions about a few words.

 

I understand not allowing someone to use your forum in order to promote a competing product or service. But we should be able to discuss certain topics when relevant as long as we are not promoting them. But if a topic is to be forbidden, then a sticky might help or adding the warnings to edited posts would do the trick.

 

Good idea....like George Carlin's 'Seven words you can't say on television'.

[+cheech gang]

Good idea....like George Carlin's 'Seven words you can't say on television'.

 

And at least three of those words are on TV all the time now. Kinda' like the evolution of munzeee...

[+GeoBain]

Good idea....like George Carlin's 'Seven words you can't say on television'.

 

And at least three of those words are on TV all the time now. Kinda' like the evolution of #######...

 

If positions have changed on the use of those words, then should past infractions involving those words be held against the user?

 

*####### is my edit as I am still not comfortable with the word.

[Pup Patrol]

 

2012 mbad

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=297487

 

2014 mnotsomuch

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=322995

 

 

B.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Pup Patrol

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I thought that was a diagram for this dance....

 

I thought it might be the diagram for the El Rojo dance but then I figured it out. It's obviously the diagram for doing the hokey pokey.

 

You put your right foot in,

You put your right foot out;

...

[knowschad]

A little self examination can be a good thing. Walk on eggshells for a week, think about things, and it'll all slowly go back to normal.

 

You haven't been around here for long, have you?

[knowschad]

OK, I'm going to go wayyy out on a limb here, but first I want to preface it by saying that I realize that the moderator/reviewer that took action is a very busy guy... but I have to ask why it took 37 posts to take action on this thread? http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=330275

 

Should not a moderator have come in early-on and said, "OK, guys... enough fun. The OP asked a question, let's answer it." (either that, or more appropriately for that particular thread, move it to the Beginners area). http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=330275

[+TriciaG]

 

If positions have changed on the use of those words, then should past infractions involving those words be held against the user?

 

I say yes. The longevity of it being used for future bans isn't due to the word itself; it's due the deliberate infraction.

[+GeoBain]

 

If positions have changed on the use of those words, then should past infractions involving those words be held against the user?

 

I say yes. The longevity of it being used for future bans isn't due to the word itself; it's due the deliberate infraction.

 

The infractions aren't always deliberate.

[+thebruce0]

Just chiming in - Since I started in 2009, I haven't been given one warning or time out or any sort of 'talking to' from a moderator. I've had spats with reviewers, but my forum career is spic-n-span... except for one hidden thread I began which apparently contained promotional content I hadn't considered; and so I was given a PM as to why, and I understood and respected that. Unfortunate, but understandable.

 

What's my forum history like? Stubborn, lengthy, wordy, frustrating, while attempting to be helpful, light-hearted, respectful, thoughtful, often quite self-conscious and careful, sometimes self-correcting with a bit of self-discipline (step away from the keyboard..step away from the keyboard)

 

I firmly believe that what gets you bans or warnings are primarily conscious attempts to subvert authority (moderators), break and/or bend rules (repeatedly), and I don't think anyone disagrees with the repercussions for derogatory and disrespectful personal attacks or antagonism. All of those I do my best to keep first and foremost priorities in forum interactions.

 

Yep, even when it comes to 'banned words' or competition - why tempt the lion? Try to understand why rules are in place, and abide by them respectfully even if you don't agree with them. That doesn't mean don't voice contrary opinions, it just means be respectful when you do, and follow moderatorial guidance. They'll respect you if you respect them.

 

Honestly, this forum is pretty lax when it comes to moderation. I've seen tighter and I've seen looser. I think it's the face of the community that much more angsty here than it is the moderators who purportedly act unfairly.

 

Pile-ons, factions, strong opinions, lack of respect for authority - all of these things can rip a forum apart.

I'm not a perfect forum poster, but I know when to draw a line (and try not to step over it), and know my limits. I can be a very stubborn person (as evident from a number of lengthy 'discussion' threads in which I've participated), but stubbornness doesn't get you kicked, banned, warned, chastised, black-listed...

 

/my 2p

 

ETA: To add something on topic - I'd like to know also what topics/words would be banned. But I doubt that'll be provided. I think some of it is common sense and moderators can judge whether you're being intentionally antagonistic or you really just didn't know.

Edited March 20, 2015 by thebruce0

[+gpsfun]

OK, I'm going to go wayyy out on a limb here, but first I want to preface it by saying that I realize that the moderator/reviewer that took action is a very busy guy... but I have to ask why it took 37 posts to take action on this thread? http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=330275

 

Should not a moderator have come in early-on and said, "OK, guys... enough fun. The OP asked a question, let's answer it." (either that, or more appropriately for that particular thread, move it to the Beginners area). http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=330275

Out on a limb or not, it is a reasonable question accompanied by a bit of Monday morning quarterbacking. One should not assume that moderators operate in a vaccuum nor should one assume that we can look into the future to assess the accumulated impact of a series of posts.

 

We are not going to be drawn into woulda coulda shoulda conversations about moderating actions. We're not taking the bait so please move on to something helpful and productive.

[knowschad]

OK, I'm going to go wayyy out on a limb here, but first I want to preface it by saying that I realize that the moderator/reviewer that took action is a very busy guy... but I have to ask why it took 37 posts to take action on this thread? http://forums.Ground...howtopic=330275

 

Should not a moderator have come in early-on and said, "OK, guys... enough fun. The OP asked a question, let's answer it." (either that, or more appropriately for that particular thread, move it to the Beginners area). http://forums.Ground...howtopic=330275

Out on a limb or not, it is a reasonable question accompanied by a bit of Monday morning quarterbacking. One should not assume that moderators operate in a vaccuum nor should one assume that we can look into the future to assess the accumulated impact of a series of posts.

 

We are not going to be drawn into woulda coulda shoulda conversations about moderating actions. We're not taking the bait so please move on to something helpful and productive.

 

I was not baiting. I gave what I think was a perfectly reasonable example of poor moderation. Monday morning quarterbacking is sometimes very productive, and writing my post off as baiting is not helpful to the discussion. Somebody should have stepped into that thread MUCH earlier and told people to back off, rather than waiting until the OP was (according to Keystone, at least), driven off by the responses. If the OP really was driven off, then shouldn't the moderation team bear some of the responsibility for that if nothing was said over 37 posts? I believe that is a fair question.

[Keystone]

Your statement that I took no action as a result of that thread prior to today is factually inaccurate. Since you are proceeding upon a flawed premise, it's difficult to answer constructively. You would be wise to take gpsfun's advice to move on to something else.

[knowschad]

Your statement that I took no action as a result of that thread prior to today is factually inaccurate. Since you are proceeding upon a flawed premise, it's difficult to answer constructively. You would be wise to take gpsfun's advice to move on to something else.

 

How was I factually inaccurate? Please explain.

 

"You would be wise to take gpsfun's advice to move on to something else."

 

That is exactly the sort of heavy-handed tactics that this and other recent threads are attempting to stop, Keystone. What I am trying to say here is what MANY other members have expressed to me privately. You can quash this discussion if you wish, but that is not going to fix the problem. Please don't exercise your power to exorcise this discussion. This is an important dialog.

Edited March 20, 2015 by knowschad

[knowschad]

I want to reiterate that I am not trolling. I am hoping to possibly fix something that wrong here. Please take the high road. I'm trying to.

[Pup Patrol]

Your statement that I took no action as a result of that thread prior to today is factually inaccurate. Since you are proceeding upon a flawed premise, it's difficult to answer constructively. You would be wise to take gpsfun's advice to move on to something else.

 

I just looked at that thread again.

 

I don't see any moderator action until the thread was closed.

 

 

B.

[+jellis]

OK, I'm going to go wayyy out on a limb here, but first I want to preface it by saying that I realize that the moderator/reviewer that took action is a very busy guy... but I have to ask why it took 37 posts to take action on this thread? http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=330275

 

Should not a moderator have come in early-on and said, "OK, guys... enough fun. The OP asked a question, let's answer it." (either that, or more appropriately for that particular thread, move it to the Beginners area). http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=330275

Did anyone see my reply? I know I was late but I noticed the OP wasn't responding.

[+jellis]

I want to reiterate that I am not trolling. I am hoping to possibly fix something that wrong here. Please take the high road. I'm trying to.

Okay this is my dumb question. What does Trolling mean? Is it the same as Phishing?

 

edit:

Nevermind got my answer.

 

I one time went off topic to try to disfuse a heated conversation once.

Edited March 20, 2015 by jellis

[Pup Patrol]

Did anyone see my reply? I know I was late but I noticed the OP wasn't responding.

 

I can't count the number of times I've responded to threads in this forum and the OP never, ever returns to their thread to say anything. "One-post wonders" abound here.

 

It's one heck of a leap of logic to think that a bit of forum bantering "scared" them off. There's no proof to that assumption, except for the newbie to state that.

 

 

B.

[+Spenny!]

Trolls generally post controversial replies or topics in order to get people riled up.

[+Ms.Scrabbler]

I've seen some moderator lightness (yes, I did see the joking right away) and moderator heavy handedly making statements in this thread.

 

However I have NOT seen an answer to the OP question and the subsequent dialog. Is there no answer? Does it depend on what side of the bed a moderator gets up on that day?

 

I rarely post here now but do read (not trolling). The things a few posters get away with saying, bashing other posters and positions, bother me to no end. Maybe they get warned but as of today they are still posting. Yet others that often give appropriate responses get kicked out, sure they may have been warned but there is no balance as to what you can get away with when posting.

 

So..... Can we get an answer to the OP original question?

[knowschad]

Trolls generally post controversial replies or topics in order to get people riled up.

 

Genuinely concerned people sometimes also post controversial topics. Many people have felt for many years that this forum is broken. My local geocachers have told me that many times. I am not so sure that the forum regulars are the real problem.

[+jellis]

I've seen some moderator lightness (yes, I did see the joking right away) and moderator heavy handedly making statements in this thread.

 

However I have NOT seen an answer to the OP question and the subsequent dialog. Is there no answer? Does it depend on what side of the bed a moderator gets up on that day?

 

I rarely post here now but do read (not trolling). The things a few posters get away with saying, bashing other posters and positions, bother me to no end. Maybe they get warned but as of today they are still posting. Yet others that often give appropriate responses get kicked out, sure they may have been warned but there is no balance as to what you can get away with when posting.

 

So..... Can we get an answer to the OP original question?

We won't really know. The OP asked what others meant about a Pen. The others were hoping the OP would give more detail what they meant and what it related to. But the OP never responded back on the thread.

[+jellis]

Trolls generally post controversial replies or topics in order to get people riled up.

I've seen a few of those here. And some starting out looking innocent.

[+Sol seaker]

I've seen some moderator lightness (yes, I did see the joking right away) and moderator heavy handedly making statements in this thread.

 

However I have NOT seen an answer to the OP question and the subsequent dialog. Is there no answer? Does it depend on what side of the bed a moderator gets up on that day?

 

I rarely post here now but do read (not trolling). The things a few posters get away with saying, bashing other posters and positions, bother me to no end. Maybe they get warned but as of today they are still posting. Yet others that often give appropriate responses get kicked out, sure they may have been warned but there is no balance as to what you can get away with when posting.

 

So..... Can we get an answer to the OP original question?

We won't really know. The OP asked what others meant about a Pen. The others were hoping the OP would give more detail what they meant and what it related to. But the OP never responded back on the thread.

 

You have to admit it was a pretty funny question that could have been a troll.

 

It's kind of like asking what a baseball bat is for in the game, in a baseball forum. You're going to get some wise answers. It's just a funny question.

 

In case it was indeed a real question it would have been good to move it to the newcomers thread immediately before it went far in the regular forums. In the regular forums it was kind of guaranteed to get a wise response. It actually could have been much worse.

 

Edit: OOOPs. I just read back and saw that someone else already suggested the thread being moved. That's what I get for only reading the last couple of posts of a thread. This one had more excitement in it than I realized. If I had of realized things were so exciting here, I would have moved on and done something more productive, like find a cache or something.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Sol seaker

[+Ms.Scrabbler]

I've seen some moderator lightness (yes, I did see the joking right away) and moderator heavy handedly making statements in this thread.

 

However I have NOT seen an answer to the OP question and the subsequent dialog. Is there no answer? Does it depend on what side of the bed a moderator gets up on that day?

 

I rarely post here now but do read (not trolling). The things a few posters get away with saying, bashing other posters and positions, bother me to no end. Maybe they get warned but as of today they are still posting. Yet others that often give appropriate responses get kicked out, sure they may have been warned but there is no balance as to what you can get away with when posting.

 

So..... Can we get an answer to the OP original question?

We won't really know. The OP asked what others meant about a Pen. The others were hoping the OP would give more detail what they meant and what it related to. But the OP never responded back on the thread.

I was referring to the question asked in this thread. - re: the other thread, a pen is an odd thing to be asking about

Edited March 20, 2015 by Ms.Scrabbler

[+Sol seaker]

So sorry. I'll take that group hug, now.

 

Ok - putting my moderator hat on now - we should probably get back to the original topic of this thread, instead of heading off in the direction of mildly lighthearted confusion.

 

 

Still reading this thread backwards:

 

 

Okay, here ya go.

 

 

 

 

 

Is everyone feeling better yet?

 

Need more hugs?

 

there were some great penguin ones in there. I love penguins.

[+Sol seaker]

No inside joke whatsoever. I was just stepping in, like asked!

 

Actually it did work. It did lighten things up... for a bit.

 

thanks for doing that. I like that kind of moderating: lighten it up, rather than make it heavier. I respond well to that sort of moderating.

[+humboldt flier]

I am trying to solve this puzzle. Could anyone out the post a solution?

 

 

Hmmmmmmmmm could it be a prototype for "The Time Warp"

[+wmpastor]

Figure I'm probably on my way out too, so what the hay...

Don't know if it's age, or lack of tech knowledge, but I still don't know where that line's drawn on posting issues.

Somehow (probably ending today...) I haven't gotten into too much trouble.

 

Recently I was berated by a mod, with thread locked before I could respond, over something simple.

I realize tempers are a bit short now with this search thing.

With so many people ticked, that may have had something to do with it.

Asking a question on a subject another brings up (I thought) was part of this forums thing.

If they don't want to answer, we have an ignore button for posters, or just skip by that post.

- That's what I do.

Calling me a troll, then hitting the report button isn't playing fair.

Starting to realize who you respond to can get you in a bind maybe as much as what you say.

 

One theme i've seen in several posts is lack of clarity about the rules. Having clear rules before punishment is a key part of fairness. It's so fundamental it's written into the US Constitution & legal system. Due Process. Notice. If you're not "on notice" that an action is wrong, you shouldn't be punished for it. Why does fairness matter in other contexts? Because fair treatment generates respect.

[+wmpastor]

Your statement that I took no action as a result of that thread prior to today is factually inaccurate. Since you are proceeding upon a flawed premise, it's difficult to answer constructively. You would be wise to take gpsfun's advice to move on to something else.

 

How was I factually inaccurate? Please explain.

 

"You would be wise to take gpsfun's advice to move on to something else."

 

That is exactly the sort of heavy-handed tactics that this and other recent threads are attempting to stop, Keystone. What I am trying to say here is what MANY other members have expressed to me privately. You can quash this discussion if you wish, but that is not going to fix the problem. Please don't exercise your power to exorcise this discussion. This is an important dialog.

 

I joked in a novice's thread and was sidelined for a week. This despite several times seeing threads where forum regulars absolutely roasted a naive OP for a n00b's question. I thought my jest was mild, and i've seen these other threads at least three times where one post after the other roasted the OP to the point where the OP finally said they would not be coming back to the forum. I have actually twice posted in such situations trying to tone down others!

 

My situation warranted a cautionary comment which I would have taken to heart. I considered the sidelining so disproportionate and unfair that I wrote an appeal to headquarters. Unfortunately I only later saw that my appeal only went to my "drafts" bin and wasn't sent. Even if my appeal had been denied, I wanted headquarters to know my opinion that I thought I was treaded unfairly. Thanks, Geobain, for this opportunity to vent.