I thought commercial caches were not allowed.

[jholly]

GC4P34C which seems to line up with Willamete Oaks.

 

Discuss.

[+redsox_mark]

Yes, looks commercial to me.

 

If the description just talked about the "Willamette Oaks geocache team" I think that would be ok. But the rest of the text clearly looks like advertising for the retirement community.

[+NanCycle]

The cache itself might be ok, but the cache page write-up needs serious editing. Maybe it should just say "Placed with permission of Willamette Oaks."

[+dprovan]

Interesting case. Does it matter if it's run as a charity? I assume it's a commercial business, but there's no way to tell that from the description, is there?

[+NanCycle]

Interesting case. Does it matter if it's run as a charity? I assume it's a commercial business, but there's no way to tell that from the description, is there?

 

It doesn't matter whether the organization/business is for-profit or not-for-profit; in either case it is considered an "agenda" and not permitted.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

The name alone should have killed it, based on previous archivals. I think the latest was Days Inn Cache, or something like that -- and its write up said nothing about that establishment, but it was in the parking lot.

[+SirDonB]

I think it is a commercial cache, reading the cache page and description, I would want to know more about the place. Though it is not requiring me to interact with the facility to log a find, the description itself have a a commercial tone to me.

[+SirDonB]

Interesting case. Does it matter if it's run as a charity? I assume it's a commercial business, but there's no way to tell that from the description, is there?

 

It doesn't matter whether the organization/business is for-profit or not-for-profit; in either case it is considered an "agenda" and not permitted.

 

If that is the case, then all caches have an agenda, to bring you out to find it and in some cases to take you to a park, place of interest, or remote location that the CO finds they want to share with you the finder. So should all caches be archived and kill the sport? I have one hidden on the property of my job, there is nothing commercial about it in the least. Even it I named it exactly after my companies name, it's agenda would not change... to be a container hidden for you to find, nothing more nothing less. Instead my cache's name is a play on words for what we do. Would that be considered commercial or having an agenda? Guess that is not for me to decide.

 

Here is the link to my cache I am referring to... http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC4HP2Y_forget-me-not-at-the-ridge

[+lamoracke]

Course, some caches are commercial with permission from Groundspeak, a different issue than probably here. No doubt you noticed the 3 new caches at the Woodland Park Zoo for example.

[+Walts Hunting]

The most recent log is from the reviewer saying he has email the CO about commercialism. If I was a betting man I would put $100 saying that the cache page was changed after approved. Not a way to endear yourself to the reviewer. Has to be really annoying to the reviewer to have this called out publicly.

 

Although my uncle lives in Springfield and is approaching the time when he will need a place to stay. Might check it out.

[seraphsarah]

I don't see what the problem is. If a company or business would like to create their own geocache, whose to say they can't?

I was definitely pondering as an author if I'd like to give away one of my paperbacks for free inside a hidden box in one of my favourite hiking spots.

I wouldn't even mind a big business, because I'm sure they'd have a cool first prize since they can afford to do so.

But again, I don't care who does them and I see no reason to care as long as it is FREE for me.

[+cerberus1]

I don't see what the problem is. If a company or business would like to create their own geocache, whose to say they can't?I was definitely pondering as an author if I'd like to give away one of my paperbacks for free inside a hidden box in one of my favourite hiking spots.

I wouldn't even mind a big business, because I'm sure they'd have a cool first prize since they can afford to do so.

But again, I don't care who does them and I see no reason to care as long as it is FREE for me.

Groundspeak.

Please refer to the Geocaching Listing Requirements, under listing guidelines, part 4

 

Of course if they (a company) were to enter into a partnership with Groundspeak...

[Keystone]

This is a pretty weak example of a commercial cache, compared to what crosses my screen on a regular basis. A few get through, usually because I didn't realize it was a business name being mentioned. Reviewers cover large territories and it's not realistic to expect us to recognize every business name. McDonald's or Wal-Mart, sure. This one? I can easily see myself publishing it without a second thought. I'm supposed to recognize the name of a retirement community that might be 100 miles from my home?

 

So, to end any drama, no. There's been no change in the content or interpretation of the Commercial Caches guideline. We still hold up hundreds of them each month.

[jholly]

This is a pretty weak example of a commercial cache, compared to what crosses my screen on a regular basis. A few get through, usually because I didn't realize it was a business name being mentioned. Reviewers cover large territories and it's not realistic to expect us to recognize every business name. McDonald's or Wal-Mart, sure. This one? I can easily see myself publishing it without a second thought. I'm supposed to recognize the name of a retirement community that might be 100 miles from my home?

 

So, to end any drama, no. There's been no change in the content or interpretation of the Commercial Caches guideline. We still hold up hundreds of them each month.

 

I agree and if the CO stopped after the first sentence they would have been fine. But in the second paragraph where they mentioned they opened their doors in 1986 and talked about our residents that raised a few flags. Googling Willamette Oaks confirmed my suspicions.

 

But to be total fair with the reviewer that published this listing, I believe that page was edited post publication with the additional information. And I fully understand that is something a reviewer has no control over.

[+Walts Hunting]

I don't see what the problem is. If a company or business would like to create their own geocache, whose to say they can't?

I was definitely pondering as an author if I'd like to give away one of my paperbacks for free inside a hidden box in one of my favourite hiking spots.

I wouldn't even mind a big business, because I'm sure they'd have a cool first prize since they can afford to do so.

But again, I don't care who does them and I see no reason to care as long as it is FREE for me.

 

Whose to say they can't? Why long standing policy from the froggie is what says that is not possible.

[+tozainamboku]

I agree and if the CO stopped after the first sentence they would have been fine. But in the second paragraph where they mentioned they opened their doors in 1986 and talked about our residents that raised a few flags. Googling Willamette Oaks confirmed my suspicions.

 

But to be total fair with the reviewer that published this listing, I believe that page was edited post publication with the additional information. And I fully understand that is something a reviewer has no control over.

Actually the second paragraph wasn't too bad. It was mostly because it was written in the first person that it caught your eye. Imagine if instead of a retirement community, Willamette Oaks was the name of a town or a neighborhood. The cachers in that town wanted to put out a cache and say a little about their town. This would not be far from what was in the second paragraph. It's only when you know this is a privately run retirement community that the second paragraph reads like advertising.

 

At first I even thought this might be with Groundspeak permission. These communities like to tout the recreational and social activities available to their residents and the idea of promoting geocaching as one of these activities may have some appeal for Groundspeak to want to allow this cache.

[+stijnhommes]

I know ad-speak when I see it, and the second part of the listing is clearly advertising.

I don't mind caches in and around businesses, but this clearly violates the guidelines unless the write-up is redone.

[+Don_J]

I know ad-speak when I see it, and the second part of the listing is clearly advertising.

I don't mind caches in and around businesses, but this clearly violates the guidelines unless the write-up is redone.

 

It's probably copied from a brochure lying on their front counter.

[+redsox_mark]

Yes, and most of the description text is also found here

 

link

 

No big drama, I'm sure this happens all the time. Either it was missed or the description changed. The reviewer is now addressing it.

[+Wadcutter]

From the sat view it appears the cache is hidden along a public walk alongside a river. The description on the cache page is definitely an ad for the home but I've seen a lot more abuse of commercial caches and reviewers allowed them after pointing them out.

There use to be one at a local winery where the only way to get to the cache was to go through the winery's gift shop to their courtyard. The cache description was mostly about trying their wines. Reviewer responded that it was OK because there were no fees charged and it was open for public access.

Another cache was hidden under the entrance door threshold in a gift shop. The only way to retrieve the cache was to open the screen door and you were then only 3-4 feet from the cash register. Reviewer let it stay because the cache owner said someone could get to the cache when the business was closed therefore the reviewer didn't consider it commercial.

Another local one was a very rural cheese shop at a dairy where the cache was hidden on a bench next to the entrance door of the business. The cache description was mostly about their various cheeses and said to take some home after finding the cache. The reviewer said it wasn't commercial because no one forced anyone to buy the cheese.

Some reviewers are better than other.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Wadcutter

[seraphsarah]

Okay. I understand the site does not allow information about businesses or solicitation on their site, so they'd prefer it out of the game. Are artists and businesses allowed to do caches courtesy of____?

As long as it is only a gift, no ads no info about themselves? For example, if I put in my own book as a prize to the first person? I think it would be a shame to be allowed to put in anything but not what you create yourself. ...Just trying to understand

[+K13]

You can place (almost) anything in a cache as swag. It's the write up on the cache page that is at issue. The cache page can't be deemed as having an agenda, like come to this business, or support this idea, etc.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

...if I put in my own book as a prize to the first person? I think it would be a shame to be allowed to put in anything but not what you create yourself. ...Just trying to understand

 

The book would be SWAG, or as you say, an FTF "gift". The agenda issue does not apply to SWAG, Travel Bugs, Signature Items or other materials.

It applies only to a cache (listing) itself.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Gitchee-Gummee

[seraphsarah]

Ooh, gotcha!!

[+ras_oscar]

Since I do not read the cache page, the advertising would not be effective on me.

[+Walts Hunting]

Since I do not read the cache page, the advertising would not be effective on me.

 

That's a good point. I probably only read 1 out of a hundred pages for caches I find.

[+Yazz]

Would you consider this page link commercial?

 

http://www.oldfortdaysrodeo.com/

[Keystone]

Ummmm, they're selling tickets and the web page has the logos of 30+ commercial sponsors.

[+u1bd2005]

I had to revise the description of one of my caches to get it published because I said something along the lines of "It looked like a nice peaceful place to sit down and have my snacks and drink my pepsi max.

 

I suppose it's all down to what the reviewer sees as breach of the rules, obviously me mentioning pepsi max was breach of the not mentioning a brand name rule, and was corrected quickly, and approved and published within a few hours of re-editing it (our local reviewer is very efficient).

 

Maybe this reviewer didn't think the cache description was commercial enough to be against the guidelines, the other possibility, maybe description was edited after publishing?

[+Walts Hunting]

Would you consider this page link commercial?

 

http://www.oldfortdaysrodeo.com/

Is this part of a cache description?

[+Yazz]

Would you consider this page link commercial?

 

http://www.oldfortdaysrodeo.com/

Is this part of a cache description?

 

Theres a picture on a cache page and when you click on it it takes you to that web page.

Edited October 5, 2013 by Yazz

[+Kyle&Ann]

Would you consider this page link commercial?

 

http://www.oldfortdaysrodeo.com/

Is this part of a cache description?

 

Theres a picture on a cache page and when you click on it it takes you to that web page.

 

LOL

 

1-7

[+Walts Hunting]

Would you consider this page link commercial?

 

http://www.oldfortdaysrodeo.com/

Is this part of a cache description?

 

Theres a picture on a cache page and when you click on it it takes you to that web page.

Very sneaky. How about the GC number.

[4wheelin_fool]

Commercial caches are the scourge of geocaching, but it doesn't bother me too much because I just saved a bundle on my car insurance by switching to Geico.

[+Wintz50]

I find it interesting how many caches come up when you type in Walmart under the find caches that start with _____ on the hide and seek a cache page.

 

I wish all reviewers were as diligent as keystone.

Edited October 7, 2013 by Wintz50

[The Peterson Finders]

 

The book would be SWAG, or as you say, an FTF "gift". The agenda issue does not apply to SWAG, Travel Bugs, Signature Items or other materials.

It applies only to a cache (listing) itself.

 

Why is that exactly?.... if the CO or anyone else doesn't stand to make a single penny off of the cache what does it hurt exactly?

[The Peterson Finders]

You can place (almost) anything in a cache as swag. It's the write up on the cache page that is at issue. The cache page can't be deemed as having an agenda, like come to this business, or support this idea, etc.

 

Say I like Monster Energy drinks.... and my whole cache....which would be an ammo can out in the desert... that revolves around those energy drinks, would that be allowed???

[+redsox_mark]

Say I like Monster Energy drinks.... and my whole cache....which would be an ammo can out in the desert... that revolves around those energy drinks, would that be allowed???

 

You can stock your ammo can with Monster drinks, that's no problem.

 

As for the cache page - it will depend on your reviewer's opinion on what appears to be commercial, but a cache talking about Monster Energy drinks probably would not be allowed. A general energy drink theme which doesn't mention a brand probably would be OK.

[4wheelin_fool]

Say I like Monster Energy drinks.... and my whole cache....which would be an ammo can out in the desert... that revolves around those energy drinks, would that be allowed???

 

You can stock your ammo can with Monster drinks, that's no problem.

 

As for the cache page - it will depend on your reviewer's opinion on what appears to be commercial, but a cache talking about Monster Energy drinks probably would not be allowed. A general energy drink theme which doesn't mention a brand probably would be OK.

 

Monster is the worst anyway. It contains large amount of L-Carnitine amino acid which is known to cause congestive heart disease. I know someone who drank the coffee flavored ones every day and had a heart attack. He had no other risk factors at all. Leave it in the desert and that just makes it worse.

[The Peterson Finders]

 

You can stock your ammo can with Monster drinks, that's no problem.

 

As for the cache page - it will depend on your reviewer's opinion on what appears to be commercial, but a cache talking about Monster Energy drinks probably would not be allowed. A general energy drink theme which doesn't mention a brand probably would be OK.

 

Alright thanks!

[The Peterson Finders]

 

Monster is the worst anyway....

 

Ya I hear that a lot. LOL

[Keystone]

You could not mention "Monster Energy Drinks" on your cache page. Regardless of whether you profit from it personally, setting up that cache page provides "free advertising" that promotes this product, intentionally or unintentionally. So, there is a bright line test saying not to mention business or product names on cache listings. Groundspeak sells advertising and Monster Energy Drinks is welcome to buy banner ads. Or, you can buy a Groundspeak travel bug and make that paid-for trackable all about Monster Energy Drinks.

 

You could not include Monster Energy Drinks in your ammo box because of the "Cache Contents" guideline -- no food items.

[+redsox_mark]

Oops sorry yes the drinks are food.

You can put Monster advertising or empty cans in your cache.

[+Kacher82]

You can put Monster advertising or empty cans in your cache.

Better make sure the cans have been thoroughly washed first. Empty cans could be worse than sealed ones.

 

Back on topic: The cache page in question seems to have been edited. I don't see any commercialism there now.

As for not allowing an agenda of any kind, in my mind, some agendas would seem to have nothing wrong with them, but a line has to be drawn somewhere.

[+u1bd2005]

Say I like Monster Energy drinks.... and my whole cache....which would be an ammo can out in the desert... that revolves around those energy drinks, would that be allowed???

 

You can stock your ammo can with Monster drinks, that's no problem.

 

As for the cache page - it will depend on your reviewer's opinion on what appears to be commercial, but a cache talking about Monster Energy drinks probably would not be allowed. A general energy drink theme which doesn't mention a brand probably would be OK.

 

Monster is the worst anyway. It contains large amount of L-Carnitine amino acid which is known to cause congestive heart disease. I know someone who drank the coffee flavored ones every day and had a heart attack. He had no other risk factors at all. Leave it in the desert and that just makes it worse.

 

First of all, I LOVE MONSTER, the yellow one is the nicest, though gets a little sickly if you drink a couple of cans. I've never had any health issues, I'm pretty healthy, walk a lot, but drinking pop, energy drinks and eating chocolate I'm probably one of the worst people for it.

 

But I get away with eating and drinking all that junk while I'm young (23), so unless it starts to have a negative effect on me, I'll continue

 

Anyway, with regards to a "Monster" cache, Mentioning it n the description would depend on whether the reviewer picks it up as a breach of the advertising or brand name rule. I mentioned "was a nice place to sit down, eat my snacks and drink my pepsi-max" in one cache description and had it refused on the grounds of pepsi-max being a brand name. Removed the mention of pepsi from my description and had it resubmitted and approved no problem. But it all depends on how your reviewer views the guidelines.

[The Peterson Finders]

You could not mention "Monster Energy Drinks" on your cache page. Regardless of whether you profit from it personally, setting up that cache page provides "free advertising" that promotes this product, intentionally or unintentionally. So, there is a bright line test saying not to mention business or product names on cache listings. Groundspeak sells advertising and Monster Energy Drinks is welcome to buy banner ads. Or, you can buy a Groundspeak travel bug and make that paid-for trackable all about Monster Energy Drinks.

 

Well at least I understand why now, thank you!

 

 

You could not include Monster Energy Drinks in your ammo box because of the "Cache Contents" guideline -- no food items.

 

Someone just assumed that's what I had in mine with my cache... Thank for your comments! Id have them all drank up before I ever had a chance to set them out....