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The grandkids and I were at a local park within this past week (as mugglers) and just happened across a cache. The boy had heard of the game so we immediately went home and signed up (not so sure of this name he chose, though, is it possible to change it in the future?).

 

Since a few days ago we have had fun trying this whole thing out and locating a dozen finds in our area. Now I’m thinking this may be a great activity for me to do with them when school’s out so I came to the forum looking for advice on a GPS. (Need something user friendly and was leaning towards the Magellan eXplorist 110?)

 

Stumbled upon this topic about making it PM only? That would rule out people like me who want to try it for a while before investing any further. If it eventually does go that direction, perhaps offer a few months of free membership before requiring the PM? I wouldn't like seeing things go that way but certainly understand the concern.

 

welcome aboard, such a fun sport hobby to add to hiking. really it is.....

 

I am using the PM just till a rash of unfortunate intentional mugglings or what they call Ripping of caches, is over. I think Geocaching should be FREE. very few things in Life are FREE, well there's still the Gas.... to get there..LOL.

 

the Explorist 110 I use. is one of the cheapest, I chose it for the black and white display, because the battery life is 9 hours, vs a color display life is only half that, per batteries. or charge... if you are using a TomTom.

 

however the Explorist is not real user friendly and does not interface with the geocaching downloads well, you have to convert the format or manually input coords...a pain.

 

I would suggest a simple Magellan, maybe a used one, someone had, after they moved up to a better model. I see them for about $40 used. I think I will switch this summer as well.

 

Good Luck and Happy Hunting!

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...since I PM'ed my caches I have had a member, view caches, they already went to months ago.

 

why would they do that? any clue? checking thier logs maybe, accidental click, any other reason you can figure?

 

I do that all the time. Don't you? Once I've been to a cache and know what it's like, I like to see the responses of the people who come after me. If I really like the cache, then I like to see how others like it, too (I'm starting to feel that monologophobia, right about now). Also, I want to make sure I didn't do anything to mess it up for the next finder.

 

Yes, absolutely. I often look at caches I've been to. Sometimes I re-read my log to remember the visit. Sometimes I check to see that the cache is still fine (cache hide isn't very good and likely to go missing, so I breathe a sigh of relief when someone found it after me). Or the cache is great and I want to see what others say about it. Or I placed a DNF and want to see if anyone finds it after me.Lots of reasons to go back and re-look at cache page.

 

I have a couple of PM caches (to get them off the apps - with some apps finders don't have to have an account to get the coordinates). I would not have a problem if the audit feature were removed. It causes too much unnecessary suspicion.

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what would be the chances an everyday member who likes to look and see what's new in the area,

is going to be the LAST viewer, in each case?

 

Depends on the maggot. If he's premium, then he probably already knows how to stay off of your audit list. Cachers and maggots both target all caches in a given area, so it's really not hard to see how someone else might look at all of the caches in an area just before the maggot strikes. I was the last finder on a bunch of caches that got taken, and I'm still thankful that the cache owners didn't jump to conclusions.

yeh you Do have to add the circumstances of coincidence to the deduction. YES

 

but if it happened again and again location after location, I would say YOU were being stalked or framed or otherwise.

 

LOL...one that went missing, of my own, was right after I, did a C/O check. LOL was I being watched? I was the only car in the lot, who knows...I do understand it happens.

 

now I have Just noticed, and again I won't know the reasons,and I am beginning to think some cachers have attitudes and enjoy the faceless internet too much, but since I PM'ed my caches I have had a member, view caches, they already went to months ago.

 

why would they do that? any clue? checking thier logs maybe, accidental click, any other reason you can figure?

 

yeh it will be hard to put 2+2 together and be accurate. but if we were all honest and open and not so doggone offensive, like MYOB, things would be smoother and less apt to jump to conclusions DYT?

 

Wow! I used to think that some people here were paranoid in their attempts to avoid the audit log. Reading this, I'm starting to understand. Why do you care if people look at your cache page. Isn't that why you created it? I don't get it, you put a page out on the Internet and you don't want people looking at it? What's the point?

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...since I PM'ed my caches I have had a member, view caches, they already went to months ago.

 

why would they do that? any clue? checking thier logs maybe, accidental click, any other reason you can figure?

 

I do that all the time. Don't you? Once I've been to a cache and know what it's like, I like to see the responses of the people who come after me. If I really like the cache, then I like to see how others like it, too (I'm starting to feel that monologophobia, right about now). Also, I want to make sure I didn't do anything to mess it up for the next finder.

 

Yes, absolutely. I often look at caches I've been to. Sometimes I re-read my log to remember the visit. Sometimes I check to see that the cache is still fine (cache hide isn't very good and likely to go missing, so I breathe a sigh of relief when someone found it after me). Or the cache is great and I want to see what others say about it. Or I placed a DNF and want to see if anyone finds it after me.Lots of reasons to go back and re-look at cache page.

 

I have a couple of PM caches (to get them off the apps - with some apps finders don't have to have an account to get the coordinates). I would not have a problem if the audit feature were removed. It causes too much unnecessary suspicion.

 

Totally agree. I might simply be browsing the map and see a smiley and think, "I don't remember finding a cache there". So if I click on that icon to remind me and the cache later goes missing, I'm a prime suspect? This a total misuse of the audit log feature. I too wish that Groundspeak would simply remove it.

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Wow! I used to think that some people here were paranoid in their attempts to avoid the audit log. Reading this, I'm starting to understand. Why do you care if people look at your cache page. Isn't that why you created it? I don't get it, you put a page out on the Internet and you don't want people looking at it? What's the point?

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LOL LOL LOL ...as mentioned I was just curious ....now reasoning makes sense. I play for the kids. not the points. I hardly "seek" because I am a lousy "finder" LOL I enjoy outdoors and thought this was a good way to encourage KIDS to get outside away from TV's, video games. and computers and enjoy Nature, but some kids Need motivation, to get out, an adventure is a good one, everyone like Indiana Jones etc..and for a way for Families to do things together was even more a motivational reason for placing my Geocaches, Families do so FEW things together. and I so worry about the Safety of the Family and esp the little cachers. why I became a CO, and not into Park and Grab Caches for Points. I like to take them out and around the Parks. it only became a concern when the Ripping started, that's all. I was just trying to find a way, to circumvent (sp)? the problem. before this all started, all I did was go, hmm wonder who was watching, maybe a TB owner, who knows, it really wasn't that important. as all discussions do, they can go way into left field. LOL After I have started on this at both forums, national and local, THOSE who also share my concern for the safety of the families and keeping the caches alive, have Contacted me and informed me THEY were watching my listings, and I appreciate thier honesty and thier concerns for this problem. Thank You, Everyone for the valuable information and caring. Let's keep geocaching Fun, Family oriented and FRIENDLY :-)

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Thanks so much for the tips! I did, before reading this, order the Magellan eXplorist 110 from the site here. That was after doing a lot of homework reading reviews and being all over different pages trying to learn stuff. I'm a bit technically challenged so here's hoping it won't be too difficult. I've got an 11 year old who will probably help me get it figured out. I'm already beginning to see how the word "obsession" can seep into all this :lol:

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Apparently this happens, and hubby & I were "outraged" when we first started and gave too much attention to the act. Thanks to some really helpful (Mr Yuck) cachers we figured it out and stopped being outraged.

 

Here's the reality : people suck and the more of them there are the more suckage that can happen.

 

We've talked about chaining and securing caches to make sure they don't walk. perfect solution? no - I came up with bolt cutters immediately and where we are that would be a normal tool.

 

Try an figure out WHY your caches would be a target, and focus on doing positive caches like you are. I think my grand kids will LOVE finding a treasure trove of items in the woods. SO I am thinking about taking over some archived caches and placing some really fun for kids ones.

 

I think if we are better than them, we win.

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It's terrible that people would be so low as to go out of their way to basically take fun away from others. And of course taking away the time and effort the hider put into the geocache in the beginning. It's obviously somebody with some serious self-esteem issues who gets some sort of cheap temporary ego-boost out of ruining other peoples' day.

 

Anyway, amateur psyc hat off for a second........

 

I wanted to address a couple of things I have read in the thread just for information purpose:

 

First, the critter or hunting cameras generally have infrared lights that come on at night, they are spotted easily when triggered, so if you are going to use one, make sure it doesn't have led lights on the front of it. (then hope the bandit doesn't show up at night, lol)

 

Also, if we had to pay upfront to try out Geocaching, we would have never got into the hobby. It was a very passing casual thing for us at first, "just to try it out". Now that we know we like and will stick with it, we upgraded to premium. But there will be a very big drop off in new members if the fee is upfront.

 

Just some things to consider..............

 

I hope the idiot cache maggot (LOL!) quits now and this all blows over.

Edited by onthehuntin702
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Just adding a bit to this one....

 

I have noticed the same issue in my area. MANY of the basic membership caches seem to be either trashed, missing travel bugs, or just missing in general. Not to mention the inappropriate logs people are writing.

 

I know I should not assume things, but when you see that someone has found maybe 5 caches and are writing nasty logs...well, it's just disappointing. (Do they really have nothing better to do with their time?)

 

It also worries me because now I'm thinking twice about where I put my travel bugs. I just recently put my FIRST one in a cache. It's been less than a week and it's already been stolen.

 

Is there ANYTHING we can do about these muggler members?

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Just adding a bit to this one....

 

I have noticed the same issue in my area. MANY of the basic membership caches seem to be either trashed, missing travel bugs, or just missing in general. Not to mention the inappropriate logs people are writing.

 

I know I should not assume things, but when you see that someone has found maybe 5 caches and are writing nasty logs...well, it's just disappointing. (Do they really have nothing better to do with their time?)

 

It also worries me because now I'm thinking twice about where I put my travel bugs. I just recently put my FIRST one in a cache. It's been less than a week and it's already been stolen.

 

Is there ANYTHING we can do about these muggler members?

First off, there's no such thing as a "basic membership" cache.

Some caches are made premium member only.

I'm not much further away and see no difference between a pmo hide and any other cache out there.

"Muggler members" are often phone app kids, and probably free intro app to boot.

- They'll be a pain in the can for a while, then eventually go to the next thing they find on the internet.

Sadly, this hobby's worst trackable thieves were years-in premium members, and no, there isn't anything (really) we can do about them.

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switch to listing only multicaches with at least 3 stages or puzzles, then it takes more effort to find the final. I'm guessing that those cache types get muggled with a much lower frequency (although they also get found with a much lower frequency)

 

I am convinced that this works much better than making them PMO. Anyone can pay for a membership. Finding a multi or puzzle takes actual effort, or at least enough connection to the geocaching community to get the final from someone. Difficult caches also improve the quality of finders - you get fewer people finding the cache, but those who do find it are more likely to be well-behaved about it.

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switch to listing only multicaches with at least 3 stages or puzzles, then it takes more effort to find the final. I'm guessing that those cache types get muggled with a much lower frequency (although they also get found with a much lower frequency)

 

I am convinced that this works much better than making them PMO. Anyone can pay for a membership. Finding a multi or puzzle takes actual effort, or at least enough connection to the geocaching community to get the final from someone. Difficult caches also improve the quality of finders - you get fewer people finding the cache, but those who do find it are more likely to be well-behaved about it.

+1

We had a student working towards an environmental sciences degree become a premium member to swipe ammo cans.

Said it was littering. I think he just wanted the cans.

I finally busted him walking away from a hide I was heading to, when his small nylon pack had the 50cal's imprint in it. :)

- Guy walked good distances, but never swiped any on multis or puzzles, and never bothered with plastic hides.

Weird.

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switch to listing only multicaches with at least 3 stages or puzzles, then it takes more effort to find the final. I'm guessing that those cache types get muggled with a much lower frequency (although they also get found with a much lower frequency)

 

I am convinced that this works much better than making them PMO. Anyone can pay for a membership. Finding a multi or puzzle takes actual effort, or at least enough connection to the geocaching community to get the final from someone. Difficult caches also improve the quality of finders - you get fewer people finding the cache, but those who do find it are more likely to be well-behaved about it.

+1

We had a student working towards an environmental sciences degree become a premium member to swipe ammo cans.

Said it was littering. I think he just wanted the cans.

I finally busted him walking away from a hide I was heading to, when his small nylon pack had the 50cal's imprint in it. :)

- Guy walked good distances, but never swiped any on multis or puzzles, and never bothered with plastic hides.

Weird.

 

Yeah, the enviro warriors flare up from time to time (as evidenced by the current thread about plastic). When I used to blog about geocaching I had these nuts called "Forest Defenders" try to leave some pretty crazy comments. I think with these extremists there's not much you can do but batten down the hatches until they lose interest and move on to something else. I think it's just easy pickings for crazies who can't actually commit to something effective. Why put time and effort into joining Greenpeace when you can steal geocaches to save the environment right in your own backyard?

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switch to listing only multicaches with at least 3 stages or puzzles, then it takes more effort to find the final. I'm guessing that those cache types get muggled with a much lower frequency (although they also get found with a much lower frequency)

 

I am convinced that this works much better than making them PMO. Anyone can pay for a membership. Finding a multi or puzzle takes actual effort, or at least enough connection to the geocaching community to get the final from someone. Difficult caches also improve the quality of finders - you get fewer people finding the cache, but those who do find it are more likely to be well-behaved about it.

+1

We had a student working towards an environmental sciences degree become a premium member to swipe ammo cans.

Said it was littering. I think he just wanted the cans.

I finally busted him walking away from a hide I was heading to, when his small nylon pack had the 50cal's imprint in it. :)

- Guy walked good distances, but never swiped any on multis or puzzles, and never bothered with plastic hides.

Weird.

 

Yeah, the enviro warriors flare up from time to time (as evidenced by the current thread about plastic). When I used to blog about geocaching I had these nuts called "Forest Defenders" try to leave some pretty crazy comments. I think with these extremists there's not much you can do but batten down the hatches until they lose interest and move on to something else. I think it's just easy pickings for crazies who can't actually commit to something effective. Why put time and effort into joining Greenpeace when you can steal geocaches to save the environment right in your own backyard?

Made ours move. :)

 

Notice went to every local cacher and we all kinda kept track of where he was.

Every internship he worked at (one, for our State game lands) got a call (and left my name) about our issue, and the possibility of a future wannabe eco terrorist.

Finally moved (with Mommy) quite a few Counties over. :laughing:

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I remember a guy from several years ago. (Not gonna say his name) He was a premium member, who deliberately went around breaking caches, scattering the contents around, and then he Logged the caches and told the world they had been muggled by him. (Back then they called it muggling.)

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Of course there are several solutions ...

 

Ain't she pretty -

 

http://www.amazon.co...i1WL&ref=plSrch

 

I'm sure the "muggler" would LOVE to get his hands on a game camera as well!

 

(I can't believe that nobody has mentioned that the word is MUGGLE, not "muggler")

 

No doubt but as it sends a text to your phone with any images captured and is instant ... when they realise what it is ... You already have their photo. If they even see it. Works quite a way off. Also records a movie at the same time. It's been used to catch a TB thief in Germany which was quite well publicised.

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Apparently this happens, and hubby & I were "outraged" when we first started and gave too much attention to the act. Thanks to some really helpful (Mr Yuck) cachers we figured it out and stopped being outraged.

 

Here's the reality : people suck and the more of them there are the more suckage that can happen.

 

We've talked about chaining and securing caches to make sure they don't walk. perfect solution? no - I came up with bolt cutters immediately and where we are that would be a normal tool.

 

Try an figure out WHY your caches would be a target, and focus on doing positive caches like you are. I think my grand kids will LOVE finding a treasure trove of items in the woods. SO I am thinking about taking over some archived caches and placing some really fun for kids ones.

 

I think if we are better than them, we win.

 

Also...I have to say:

 

+1 to this entire statement. Especially the "I think if we are better than them, we win." Just think carefully about what you would consider to be "better". I'm starting to realize that giving them attention, complaining about them, just worrying about them in general....that's what they want. They want to suck the fun out of the game. But again, I'm realizing that only I can let them do that.

 

I found a cache once where someone had written something immature in the logbook. What I loved was that, well....people ignored it. No one CARED. People just kept signing the log as usual. I think that's when I figured out that I should do the same. Rise above!

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I'm starting to realize that giving them attention, complaining about them, just worrying about them in general....that's what they want. They want to suck the fun out of the game. But again, I'm realizing that only I can let them do that.

 

I found a cache once where someone had written something immature in the logbook. What I loved was that, well....people ignored it. No one CARED. People just kept signing the log as usual. I think that's when I figured out that I should do the same. Rise above!

 

Exactly this. Number one rule of the internet - don't feed the trolls. Whatever the aim of these vandals - to "help the environment", to keep people away from property, or just to annoy cachers - they all have one goal in common: to provoke a response. Any response, positive or negative. Just post a maintenance log to the cache, fix it up, and carry on as normal. No outrage, no complaining. Don't even mention the reason. Nobody's going to pursue a long campaign of cache-vandalism if they don't get the acknowledgment they crave.

 

This is just my view as a very new cacher, but it seems to me that the occasional vandalised cache is simply one of the vicissitudes of the hobby, and so we shouldn't let it detract from our enjoyment. Personally I enjoy discovering new places and spending time outdoors more than finding the cache itself anyway.

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Sometimes I wonder if my hard to find (for muggles)caches that are going missing, are maybe other cachers. At one point I was thinking someone might be collecting nanos for themselves so they don't have to go buy them.

But there are other reasons caches go missing. Landscapers clean them up as trash. Animals really do walk off with some caches. Weather like high winds or rain will make them way off their coords. And branches in trees do break.

edit to add: Park departments (like are regional and state ones) have their own geocaching rules and won't hesitate to remove a cache without warning if they find them where they don't belong.

Edited by jellis
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We had a cacher in our area that called himself the "Rain of Terror" and he would pee and/or poop in the caches. We had it happen to one of our caches. I think it was a kid from a nearby high school. I had other cachers contact me after it happened and told me there stories and how they archived theirs. I archived the cache but later told my daughter about it and she was not OK with us letting him win. So we went to work on a plan. I had it unarchived and replaced it with a toilet seat lid as the cache container. Before it was a large. Someone found it and said in there log that there was a note left. We went and checked it out. The Rain of Terror left a very creative note in the cache. It must have taken a lot of time to draw all the stuff on the paper and it was set up pretty cool. I could tell from the note we had somehow gained his respect and I have never heard about him doing anything after that. It is now a regular sized container and it has not been messed with at all. I felt like we won that battle and maybe helped out the community in that area that was having the problem.

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