Question On Proper Ettiquet

[+soundstoofishy]

Hello All,

 

We are pretty much Newbs here and I have a question about proper ettiquet. I'm asking this because I really don't know how the Geocaching Community feels about this and want to do what's right.

 

The question is:

 

If someone emails me asking for a hint on a cache that I have found but do not own, is it o.k. to give them a hint?

 

The folks who emailed us have looked for this particular cache 3 times and didn't find it.

 

Thanks for your advice on this!!

 

Soundstoofishy

[knowschad]

Hello All,

 

We are pretty much Newbs here and I have a question about proper ettiquet. I'm asking this because I really don't know how the Geocaching Community feels about this and want to do what's right.

 

The question is:

 

If someone emails me asking for a hint on a cache that I have found but do not own, is it o.k. to give them a hint?

 

The folks who emailed us have looked for this particular cache 3 times and didn't find it.

 

Thanks for your advice on this!!

 

Soundstoofishy

 

OOohhh... that's a toughie. I remember struggling with that when I first started caching. Really, I think the "proper" answer would be to ask them to check with the cache owner. In reality, though... it happens all the time and is (at least in my neck of the woods) considered the socially acceptable thing to do. To tell somebody to ask the cache owner would really be considered a rather snippety, stand-offish thing to do.

 

What you could do is to ask the cache owner if they mind if you give a hint.

 

Also, I will add that I am referring to run-of-the-mill, fairly simple hides, not those that are intended to be particularly difficult, and even more-so if the cache is pretty new. Requests for help on something like that should definitely go to the cache owner.

[+jeffrae]

I think I would check how long ago the owner was logged into their account. The person asking for the hint may have already e-mailed them, but gotten no response. If the owner has logged in recently, I would suggest telling them you would feel more comfortable with them asking for hints from the owner instead of you.

If the owner hasn't logged in for a long time, I would give them a subtle hint.

[+StarBrand]

I'd ask them if they tried the CO first. If not I would refer them to the owner as a preference. Then I would ask them about the spot and the hide to determine if they spent some time looking in the right spot.

 

If everything 'felt' right, then I would feel ok about a nudge to help out. I won't out and out just tell anybody right where the cache is though.

[+rosebud55112]

 

In reality, though... it happens all the time and is (at least in my neck of the woods) considered the socially acceptable thing to do. To tell somebody to ask the cache owner would really be considered a rather snippety, stand-offish thing to do.

 

 

Is that why sometimes mystery caches have so few solvers for a long time, then an explosion of solvers? Because people are passing around the solutions? That doesn't seem Minnesota Nice to me.

[+terrkan78]

There's no real right or wrong answer. If it was me, I would check the cache owner's profile - it'll tell you the date they last logged into geocaching.com. If it's been a while, I'd have no problem giving any assistance requested, including telling them exactly where to look. Around here I know (from my own experience) that there are a few COs who don't answer e-mails. I have no problem giving any assistance requested on their hides either. (And I'm not talking devilishly difficult hides here.)

 

However, if I was new to the area, and if the cache owner had logged in recently, then I'd hesitate for fear of stepping on his toes. I think I'd e-mail the cache owner myself, telling him that I'd gotten a request for assistance and did he mind if I offered it? If I received no response to that after a few weeks, then I'd help the people (and in the meantime I'd tell the people that I don't want to step on toes, so I'm asking the CO if he minds, etc.)

 

The trickiest part of the whole thing, in my opinion, is deciding just how much of a hint to give. If someone's gone to the trouble of asking you for help, they're undoubtedly really stumped and won't be amused by a clever hint that tells them very little. I've gotten those sorts of hints myself (unsolicited) from COs after I've DNFd their caches - it comes off kind of like, "Ha ha, you can't find my cache, well...let me throw out a small obscure hint just to frustrate you more!" They may not intend it that way, but it annoys me. As a result, I tend to be pretty forthright with my help.

[+SwineFlew]

I always help them out. Its a good way to network with other cachers.

[+NeverSummer]

I always help them out. Its a good way to network with other cachers.

I agree.

But, it wouldn't hurt to ask the person asking you if they have asked the owner. Phew! Did that make sense?

You don't have to make it a single email exchange; rather, take the time to have a conversation with the person about the cache, and what steps they have taken. Mention that you'd be happy to help if they can't rouse the owner.

 

JM2C

[+Chrysalides]

Is that why sometimes mystery caches have so few solvers for a long time, then an explosion of solvers? Because people are passing around the solutions? That doesn't seem Minnesota Nice to me.

That's uncalled for.

[+Lieblweb]

Share the love....and the love will be shared to you.

 

Scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.....

 

What's a few hints between friends??

[+sshipway]

I'd give someone a hint if asked (though not the whole solution).

 

I don't mind if people find my caches by getting hints from other cachers -- after all, I don't lose anything, and they just devalue their own find. However, it's not a competition against anyone but yourself, so why not help out someone who's having difficulty getting started?

[+Fianccetto]

I was asked where I found a cache in a local series (now archived). One of the caches in the series was disabled and the cache owner hadn't logged on very recently, and we were the last to find the cache. It was, for us, the easiest in the series, a magnetic nano on a fence, the coords were a bit out and the hint was about a tree, so misleading. I felt it was fine in that instance to help with a clearer hint and description. If it had been one of the other caches which had better hints and coords, but were just very well hidden/disguised (hidden in a busy park) or they were asking for help on every cache in the series, I'd have been a bit less inclined to help.

[GOF and Bacall]

I always feel like I am being put on the spot when people ask me for hints on caches that don't belong to me. I don't want to be "snippety or stand-offish" but it really isn't my place to give out hints for caches that don't belong to me. Now, that does change when a cache owner isn't around anymore.

 

In full disclosure I have used the phone-a-friend approach once. It really felt like I was cheating and I've not done it again.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I always help them out. Its a good way to network with other cachers.

I agree.

But, it wouldn't hurt to ask the person asking you if they have asked the owner. Phew! Did that make sense?

You don't have to make it a single email exchange; rather, take the time to have a conversation with the person about the cache, and what steps they have taken. Mention that you'd be happy to help if they can't rouse the owner.

 

JM2C

 

This is how I would tend to go as well. The only caveat would be if the difficulty rating was especially high for the cache I would more strongly suggest asking the cache owner first. A cache with a high difficultly rating is *supposed* to be hard to find and if a CO made the effort to place a 4 star difficulty cache they might not want others giving out hints so freely. I have a hard time believing that the giving out a hint on a 2 star difficulty cache would bother most cache owners.

[+Chokecherry]

Hello All,

 

We are pretty much Newbs here and I have a question about proper ettiquet. I'm asking this because I really don't know how the Geocaching Community feels about this and want to do what's right.

 

The question is:

 

If someone emails me asking for a hint on a cache that I have found but do not own, is it o.k. to give them a hint?

 

The folks who emailed us have looked for this particular cache 3 times and didn't find it.

 

Thanks for your advice on this!!

 

Soundstoofishy

 

OOohhh... that's a toughie. I remember struggling with that when I first started caching. Really, I think the "proper" answer would be to ask them to check with the cache owner. In reality, though... it happens all the time and is (at least in my neck of the woods) considered the socially acceptable thing to do. To tell somebody to ask the cache owner would really be considered a rather snippety, stand-offish thing to do.

 

What you could do is to ask the cache owner if they mind if you give a hint.

 

Also, I will add that I am referring to run-of-the-mill, fairly simple hides, not those that are intended to be particularly difficult, and even more-so if the cache is pretty new. Requests for help on something like that should definitely go to the cache owner.

 

It's the norm here as well. But realistically we have about 3-4 active cachers in the area. I helped someone last year on an unmaintained puzzle cache (as in the key to the puzzle was essentially unusable at that point). But chances are we are all going to talk about the hard caches with each other. Chances are we are going to share some info so it's just not that looked down upon here. And you would probably be seen as snippy and stand offish if you told someone to only talk to the cache owner.

[+briansnat]

It happens often enough that it has a name, PAF. I personally don't get the point. How much satisfaction can you get out of the find if someone told you where it was (and it's been my experience that people who PAF aren't asking for a hint, they want you to tell them where it is)? It's part of the entitlement mentality. I searched so I'm entitled to that smiley.

 

I think people should ask the cache owner and let him decide how much info he wants to provide.

Edited April 5, 2012 by briansnat

[+Walts Hunting]

The problem with etiquette questions is that different people give different answers. I can't how many logs I have seen where someone calls a friend from the field for help. Personally the few times I have been askedi gave assistance

[+kunarion]

The folks who emailed us have looked for this particular cache 3 times and didn't find it.

The Cache Owner hasn't contacted them after 3 DNFs? I can guess what would happen if they try to contact the CO. Is the CO even active anymore? I'd put that cache on the back burner and try others -- the container might be gone, in which case, a hint is useless.

 

You may offer to go find it along with a couple of caches you still need to find, so you can see if the container's gone or whatever. But once you offer email hints, you're the go-to person for the info. You've taken "ownership" of the info, so be sure it's right. What if they still can't find it?

 

Some people don't notice their email isn't set up right -- they receive the answers, but in the Spam folder. Or one party doesn't notice their reply is being sent to "NO-REPLY". As hint-giver, you also may have the duty of computer-fixer. Good for you!

 

I'd suggest they contact the CO first and get it resolved. You could write to the CO and mention people needing help. If there's still no response, that CO's caches are not ideal.

Edited April 5, 2012 by kunarion

[+redsox_mark]

If someone asks me for a hint, I generally give them one. I've been part of similar discussions at events (where cachers ask others who are not the cache owner for hints).

 

The only time I refused to help was one cache where I was FTF, and the owner specifically asked me not to give out any hints.

[+kunarion]

If someone asks me for a hint, I generally give them one. I've been part of similar discussions at events (where cachers ask others who are not the cache owner for hints).

There's a local cache that has me stumped. I asked the Cache Owner, who was no help (Okay, he was plenty helpful, but as I said, I somehow can't find it anyway). At an event, three people each offered entirely different specific locations of the cache container. And I hadn't even asked them.

 

And proper Ettiquet is:

"Etiquette"

Edited April 5, 2012 by kunarion

[Clan Riffster]

My answer will largely depend on who the cache owner is. I know which cache owners are okay with others giving hints, and which ones are not. Assuming the cache in question is owned by a cacher who is okay with hints from outside sources, I'll ask the seeker how much of a hint they would like, offering everything from a slight nudge to driving out and handing it to them.

[+ArcherDragoon]

Hello All,

 

We are pretty much Newbs here and I have a question about proper ettiquet. I'm asking this because I really don't know how the Geocaching Community feels about this and want to do what's right.

 

The question is:

 

If someone emails me asking for a hint on a cache that I have found but do not own, is it o.k. to give them a hint?

 

The folks who emailed us have looked for this particular cache 3 times and didn't find it.

 

Thanks for your advice on this!!

 

Soundstoofishy

Well...I have done it...usually after I have emailed the Cache Owner a number of times and don't get a response. Ok...by done it, I mean asking for help/hints from someone that found the cache. By usually...it depends on any recent (and how recent) the activity of the owner...and your own personal feelings. The cache I asked for help on...I was working on it for a month or better and sent out 5 emails with no response...so, I asked one of the recent finders...

 

As for offering help...hmm...my recent experiences have been about getting a group together to work on a cache/puzzle together...but...hmm...offering info after being asked...I have...but I try not to just give away the cache hide (talking traditional...or themed caches)...more often then not, I offer to meet people on site and use "Warm/Cold" for help...

 

On Puzzles...I typically ask what they have asked of the Cache Owner and see if there is something I can help clarify...again, trying hard not to give anything away...but...again...I look at recent activity of the owner...

 

Edit: So...I guess overall...it all depends on the Cache Owner...as many have stated above. Being "new"...go with your instinct...

Edited April 5, 2012 by ArcherDragoon

[+jellis]

 

The folks who emailed us have looked for this particular cache 3 times and didn't find it.

 

On the OP message, did the those cachers log DNFs? Sure if the CO is active would like to see that they tried.

 

I agree and disagree with many of the responses. On mine depending on the difficulty is how much hint I would give. Many of my puzzles I always tell my friends if anyone asks for help on them, is for them to just ask me.

[knowschad]

In reality, though... it happens all the time and is (at least in my neck of the woods) considered the socially acceptable thing to do. To tell somebody to ask the cache owner would really be considered a rather snippety, stand-offish thing to do.

 

 

Is that why sometimes mystery caches have so few solvers for a long time, then an explosion of solvers? Because people are passing around the solutions? That doesn't seem Minnesota Nice to me.

Mum's the word.

[knowschad]

Is that why sometimes mystery caches have so few solvers for a long time, then an explosion of solvers? Because people are passing around the solutions? That doesn't seem Minnesota Nice to me.

That's uncalled for.

 

Rosebud55112 is a Minnesota cacher with quite a few mystery caches. The question, in my opinion, was a fair one, and in my experience, the speculation was pretty accurate.

[+ArcherDragoon]

 

In reality, though... it happens all the time and is (at least in my neck of the woods) considered the socially acceptable thing to do. To tell somebody to ask the cache owner would really be considered a rather snippety, stand-offish thing to do.

 

 

Is that why sometimes mystery caches have so few solvers for a long time, then an explosion of solvers? Because people are passing around the solutions? That doesn't seem Minnesota Nice to me.

Does that happen...sure...I am not naive and I am not going to say that it doesn't. But, there are also times when groups of friends get together and work on it together. It happens plenty in this area...there is a group of us that work together often on puzzles...heck...there are several groups of several people...the tendency is to try and find the cache together...but more often the group cannot find the time and there will be a run of cachers finding the cache...it does not always mean the solution was just passed around.

[+dprovan]

If someone emails me asking for a hint on a cache that I have found but do not own, is it o.k. to give them a hint?

Yes, it's OK to give them a hint.

 

If you're worried about stepping on the owner's toes, you can just emphasize what in the cache's description or hints you think is the most helpful. And do take the specific cache into account: if it's rated easy but I had to spend 20 minutes searching a bush to find it, I'm much more inclined to just tell them where it is, as best as I can remember. Similarly, if it's a mile hike to GZ, I'm more apt to give them enough info to make sure they find it next time.

 

Although what others are saying about the CO are reasonable, for a typical cache, I don't normally worry about the CO that much, either when being asked or asking. My somewhat flawed thinking is that the CO already would have put any hints into the cache description, making it a little bit of an insult to ask for more. Naturally, some hides are intended to challenge you, and for those I'm more inclined to make sure the CO is the one providing any additional information.

 

Of course, all this assumes it's an isolated incident. If the same cacher seems to be asking you about every other cache, then you might want to do more to discourage asking for hints or just go out with them to show them how it's done.

[+Chrysalides]

Is that why sometimes mystery caches have so few solvers for a long time, then an explosion of solvers? Because people are passing around the solutions? That doesn't seem Minnesota Nice to me.

That's uncalled for.

Rosebud55112 is a Minnesota cacher with quite a few mystery caches. The question, in my opinion, was a fair one, and in my experience, the speculation was pretty accurate.

It didn't read like a question to me, despite the question marks at the end. It reads like a general accusation of what is (to me) a pretty serious breach of etiquette, and is not even really on topic ("cheating" in puzzles is a different forum schedule, right? ) . But since it is none of my business, I'll politely bow out of this one.

[+rosebud55112]

Is that why sometimes mystery caches have so few solvers for a long time, then an explosion of solvers? Because people are passing around the solutions? That doesn't seem Minnesota Nice to me.

That's uncalled for.

 

Rosebud55112 is a Minnesota cacher with quite a few mystery caches. The question, in my opinion, was a fair one, and in my experience, the speculation was pretty accurate.

 

Thanks, knowschad, for understanding what I meant and the tone of it. As I read my comment now, it does sound somewhat snarky, so I can understand Chrysalides' interpretation as well.

 

Enough with this diversion, though. Back to the main topic....

[+Chrysalides]

Thanks, knowschad, for understanding what I meant and the tone of it. As I read my comment now, it does sound somewhat snarky, so I can understand Chrysalides' interpretation as well.

 

Enough with this diversion, though. Back to the main topic....

Thank you, and I apologize for, as some call it, "getting my panties all in a bunch".

 

Back on topic, I prefer to ask someone I know rather than the CO directly. I find that generally I have a less than 50% chance of getting a response from a CO even when they are active (and I always send my email address).

[+switchdoc]

I guess for me it depends on who it is... I definitely share hints with friends and people I have cached with before, and would likely try to help out someone who seemed to be a 'newbie' as well. within reason. And definitely a hint, not the exact location.

 

If you are a complete stranger and I get the sense you aren't really trying too hard, the maybe not so much.

 

I'm actually worse when I am out with people to a cache I have been to before. Then it is great to walk around, whistling casually, and watch them struggle!

[+slukster]

The folks who emailed us have looked for this particular cache 3 times and didn't find it.

The Cache Owner hasn't contacted them after 3 DNFs? I can guess what would happen if they try to contact the CO. Is the CO even active anymore? I'd put that cache on the back burner and try others -- the container might be gone, in which case, a hint is useless.

I am guessing that the cacher didn't log 3 DNF's. I surely would contact someone after 2 DNF's but rarely do I ever see someone post more than 1 DNF on a cache. Often the Found log states that they tried several times before making the find, without ever logging a DNF.

[+Walts Hunting]

I guess for me it depends on who it is... I definitely share hints with friends and people I have cached with before, and would likely try to help out someone who seemed to be a 'newbie' as well. within reason. And definitely a hint, not the exact location.

 

If you are a complete stranger and I get the sense you aren't really trying too hard, the maybe not so much.

 

I'm actually worse when I am out with people to a cache I have been to before. Then it is great to walk around, whistling casually, and watch them struggle!

 

Perfectly said. I too love being with someone trying to find a cache I have found and watching them actually touch it and not know that was it. I guess we are all a little cruel.

 

As I am up in years I find myself sometimes being with someone trying to find a cache I have found some time ago and I don't know where it is either. Makes me wonder if I should be able to legitimately log a new find. We could have a separate log i.e. "Senior Moment Find"

[+BigChiefS4]

I'm also from MN and have no problem providing a hint for someone who is looking for a cache I just found. Why not ask the CO? I'll give you two reasons - A. I don't have the phone number of the CO and it's deep in the woods and wouldn't come back to this area for a long time. B. Caches tend to migrate from their hidey spots. The cache may not be in the same place the CO put it. The last finder would know that.

 

What bothers me is when I ask someone for a hint and I get just that - a hint. Then they use me for PAF and expect me to tell them EXACTLY where it is, what the container looks like, how many leaves I had to move to get at it, etc etc etc.

[knowschad]

Thanks, knowschad, for understanding what I meant and the tone of it. As I read my comment now, it does sound somewhat snarky, so I can understand Chrysalides' interpretation as well.

 

Enough with this diversion, though. Back to the main topic....

Thank you, and I apologize for, as some call it, "getting my panties all in a bunch".

 

Back on topic, I prefer to ask someone I know rather than the CO directly. I find that generally I have a less than 50% chance of getting a response from a CO even when they are active (and I always send my email address).

 

You wear panties?

 

Enough with this diversion, though. Back to the main topic.