Getting Trackables Marked Missing

3.4k · February 20, 2012

For about 2 1/2 years I have been carefully checking every cache I find to see if any trackables listed as being in it are in fact there. When they are not, I mention it in my cache log, either my Found log or a separate note and also write a log for the trackables page; if these logs do not result in having them marked missing, I then email the trackable's owner and the cache owner and suggest that they mark them missing. If none of these actions produced any results, I would then email Eartha and she would take care of it. Until last month. About 4 weeks ago I sent Eartha a list of 6 trackables that needed to be marked missing, but she didn't do them; so after about 3 weeks I then sent them to my local reviewer. It has been about a week and he (or she) hasn't done them either. Are Moderators and Reviewers not performing this service anymore? Is there anyone who can and will?

22k · February 21, 2012

First of all you should be talking to your local reviewer before Eartha.

Second of all why does Eartha have move out a bug in four weeks that has been sitting there two years?

Third of all, as I have been trying to discuss and you all have been conveniently ignoring, this is not a "fed-up cacher who takes extra steps by making sure a lackey manually addresses by removing a bug" issue.

Get rid of lost bugs.

Edited February 21, 2012 by BlueDeuce

3.4k · February 21, 2012

First of all you should be talking to your local reviewer before Eartha. When I started doing this, Eartha offered. And she has offered several times in the past couple years. Sorry, this is the first I've heard of the "reviewer first" rule.

Second of all why does Eartha have move out a bug in four weeks that has been sitting there two years? She doesn't "have to" of course. All other times she did it within a couple days. Sorry, I didn't find those caches two years ago.

Third of all, as I have been trying to discuss and you all have been conveniently ignoring, this is not a "fed-up cacher who takes extra steps by making sure a lackey manually addresses by removing a bug" issue. I have no idea what you're talking about, but I sure expected a more helpful response from you. You are coming off sounding like a jerk, which is not at all the way you usually answer questions in the forum. There must be something about my question that really ticked you off. Sorry.

Get rid of lost bugs. That's what I'm trying to do--just looking for some help.

22k · February 21, 2012

You are coming off sounding like a jerk, which is not at all the way you usually answer questions in the forum.

I disagree, I come off sounding like a jerk more than half the time.

Excuse me while I sound off some more. I have combed through thousands of bug listings just to identify the missing travelers. Typically I receive more complaints for my actions than proof I am wrong.

Your ones-twoesy reports aren't doing much. My ones-twoesy reports aren't doing much. Maybe 'bout time to reconsider the effect of ones-twoesy reports.

8.6k · February 21, 2012

If only someone would give me The Power I would happily act as Missing Trackable Remover and General Cache Inventory Sanitiser.

Well...

Maybe just for UK & Ireland. :unsure:

You three could sort out the US between you

MrsB

1.6k · February 21, 2012

Life gets busy......

CO's, trackable owners, reviewers, moderators and everyone else who doesn't work for Groundspeak....

Are VOLUNTEERS

They don't always have time in their lives to cater to every single request that is sent to them and chances are, those requests get forgotten. They get loaded up with enough work as it is.

I understand, believe me.... the lack of 'proper' logging of anything in this game is frustrating. However - I make my own initial attempts to e-mail people to make things 'right'. After that.......I just LET IT GO.

I don't have time in my own schedule to continue with those efforts.

This hobby is supposed to be fun for all (including CO's, TO's, Reviewers, & Moderators).

3.4k · February 21, 2012

Second of all why does Eartha have move out a bug in four weeks that has been sitting there two years?

Overnight I got to wondering "How does BD know that there were items on the list that were sitting there two years. Does he have access to the emails I sent Eartha and Alpine Reviewer? Does he have access to my Excel spreadsheeet?" Not likely, so probably my first post was misunderstood; I tried to keep it brief and to the point, but maybe I should have given a more thorough explanation.

Over the past 2 1/2 years I have sent emails out on 107 missing trackables (cache logs and trackable logs on all of them had been ignored) to trackable owners and/or cache owners. Of these 52 were marked missing by either the CO or the TO. Of the rest, 49 were marked missing by Eartha and the remaining 6 are the ones in question. The times that Eartha cleared them, she did so within a couple days (if not a couple hours) and once she even sent me an email thanking me for my efforts. So when 3 weeks had gone by I wondered--"Did she quit? Is she sick? Maybe just too busy?" So I tried the reviewer as suggested here in the forum (by BD as well as others.)

Your ones-twoesy reports aren't doing much. My ones-twoesy reports aren't doing much. Maybe 'bout time to reconsider the effect of ones-twoesy reports.

So we just quit trying? (@BD: In the light of a new day, I want to apologize for my "like a jerk" remark--I was disappointed not to get a really good helpful answer from you; and I still don't understand your "third of all comments.)

Life gets busy......

CO's, trackable owners, reviewers, moderators and everyone else who doesn't work for Groundspeak....

Are VOLUNTEERS

They don't always have time in their lives to cater to every single request that is sent to them and chances are, those requests get forgotten. They get loaded up with enough work as it is.

TO's who can't be bothered to maintain the status of their own trackables--IMO no excuse (unless they've passed away; many are no longer active in caching, for whatever reason.)

CO's who won't update their cache listing--IMO mostly no excuse either.

Reviewers, moderators--if they're too busy, I'll quit bothering them.

If only someone would give me The Power I would happily act as Missing Trackable Remover and General Cache Inventory Sanitiser.

Same here, MrsB, same here.

22k · February 21, 2012

So we just quit trying?

No, we find a better approach.

1.6k · February 21, 2012

TO's who can't be bothered to maintain the status of their own trackables--IMO no excuse (unless they've passed away; many are no longer active in caching, for whatever reason.)

CO's who won't update their cache listing--IMO mostly no excuse either.

Reviewers, moderators--if they're too busy, I'll quit bothering them.

I totally agree .... There are a variety of reasons why TO's and CO's don't maintain their stuff. It's frustrating. I commend you on your superb amount of energy to send all those e-mails and caring about the situation. If you have the time....have at it. But please....when your blood pressure goes thru the roof from all the stress - it's time to put things into perspective.

Every time these situations pop up... Ask yourself : "Am I having fun?"

Don't let the irresponsibility of others ruin what this hobby is supposed to be - FUN! I wouldn't want to see you drop out of the hobby due to these frustrations. Believe me, been there and done that with many other hobbies.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Lieblweb

1.9k · February 22, 2012

I do a sweep of my trackables every three months or so. Some of them I mark as missing each time; some I even resurrect.

I can't always decide if a trackable really is missing or not. Is it just stuck in the bottom of that cache and no one notices it? Maybe that cache doesn't get many visitors.

I do appreciate the notes on both the cache page and the trackable page, as then I feel that the person really looked at the stuff and it really isn't there. That is one of the things that will encourage me to mark it as missing.

Sometimes, the traveler has gone dormant for a long time, and is marked 'in the hands of ... xxx'. In this case, I am not likely to mark it as missing just yet. I'm not letting them off the hook that easily, they have it somewhere in their geostuff. I have probably already sent the gentle reminder, and I'm not going to nag. But I'm also not going to assuage their guilty conscience. Leave it in their inventory to remind them every time they log a cache.

If they write to me and say, oh, I dropped it, or the dog ate it, I might mark it missing then.

Also, the flip side of those little not there notes we are talking about -- discover logs. I always discover every trackable I see in a cache, even if I choose not to move it. That way it helps the owner know where it is and that it is still there.

6k · February 23, 2012

Seems to me of you spent all that energy just caching and not trying to clean up the world of trackables you have more fun. This whole missing trackable thing will never change so why get your knickers in a bunch. Seems like a Sisuphus like task

3.4k · February 26, 2012

Seems to me of you spent all that energy just caching and not trying to clean up the world of trackables you have more fun. This whole missing trackable thing will never change so why get your knickers in a bunch. Seems like a Sisuphus like task

You don't get to decide what is fun for me; though maybe "fun" is the wrong word; in any case I have found it very satisfying to have helped in the cleaning up of cache inventories by getting these 100-odd trackables marked missing.

Whether I will continue to try if it is only going to be half as satisfying because no one (reviewers and moderators) who has the power to take the final step will help anymore is an issue I haven't decided yet.

btw, the state of my knickers is none of your business, and they feel just fine to me.

As for the task being Sisyphean, well no one is asking you to do it, so what's it to you if I spend some of my evenings on it (when I wouldn't be out caching anyway.)

February 28, 2012

In the past few years I have sent over a 1000 mails to cache owners, TB-owners and even a few reviewers from time to time. Nobody of the "powers that be" seem the least bit interested in this TB-gone-missing [edited]. When the old feedback system was operational, the top 3 of things that should be done was, according to votes, API, better maps and clean up TB's.

Two out of three aint bad, but, man oh man, do we need a system to mark TB's missing as searchers!

Edited March 1, 2012 by Keystone
potty langauge removed by moderator

February 28, 2012

I have not kept track of how many times I have emailed someone about a lost TB/coin, but I will always make a note on the cache page, and the TB page at least, and time permitting emailing the cache owner and the TB owner.

February 28, 2012

Although I never considered emailing reviewers, figured they ahve enough to worry about, but I suppose If i wnated to be pro-active, if neither the CO nor the TBO marked it, that would not be a bad idea...

Although I would support a system that allowed finders to mark them missing... perhaps adding a new type of log option to TB's, similar to the cache log option of "Needs Maintenance" there could be a "Needs Marked as missing" log type, which could automatically alert the CO & TB owner with an email...

8.6k · February 28, 2012

Although I would support a system that allowed finders to mark them missing... perhaps adding a new type of log option to TB's, similar to the cache log option of "Needs Maintenance" there could be a "Needs Marked as missing" log type, which could automatically alert the CO & TB owner with an email...

A new log type isn't necessary.

The TO gets an email if a cacher (who cares enough) would, rather than simply noting "TB***** not in this cache" in their cache found it log but also in a note log on the trackable page to the same effect.

Some do make a note entry, most however, don't. Apparently many either 1) do not care, or 2) they simply are not aware.

The TO gets the email -- it is generated and sent, whether they read it or not, is a different story.

A different animal in this equation also rears is head -- and that is, if the TO does that follow-up and marks it as missing.

You simply are not going to see very many CO's take it upon themselves to mark trackables as missing. A good majority feel "it's not their job".

February 28, 2012

The idea behind the separate log type is that it could be set up to alert not just the TB owner, but the Cache owner where the TB resides, and possibly allow reviewers to check on them too perhaps...

Maybe even allow for the TB's to be filtered out when running PQ's... Perhaps it could add an attribute to the TB, until it gets logged again, or removed form the cache...

Just kickin' around some concepts...

8.6k · February 28, 2012

You may be interested to read here: Suggested system to remove "ghost" trackables from caches."

MrsB

February 28, 2012

You may be interested to read here: Suggested system to remove "ghost" trackables from caches."

MrsB

Awesome...

That's even better.

Now how do we get them to implement it?

February 29, 2012

I'm fine with the ghost thing it looks like a nice addition

But as a co I don't want to mark a bug or coin as missing

That should go back to the t/o

As far as emailing a reviewer I don't see where we should bother them with that

They volunteer for that and have enough on their plates making sure that all of the caches

Are published and archived and helping all of the rest of us have some to complain to about caches

And they do it all for free.

So why add something else to them that they have no control over

February 29, 2012

I'm fine with the ghost thing it looks like a nice addition

But as a co I don't want to mark a bug or coin as missing

That should go back to the t/o

Marking a bug or coin not found in your cache as "Missing" should be part of your regular maintenance as all COs are encouraged to do. As many have mentioned, it does no harm and is helpful to other cachers. I find it very disappointing when on a local bug hunt before a trip not to find any.

22k · February 29, 2012

Marking a bug or coin not found in your cache as "Missing" should be part of your regular maintenance.

No, that's not going to happen. Neither is ghost logging travelers. Sorry MrsB.

3.4k · March 1, 2012

Some of the comments in this thread sound like you think that I have taken it on myself to decide that reviewers/moderators should be performing this task. I assure you all that it was not my idea originally.

Here's a post from Eartha Posted 13 April 2011 - 06:36 PM

First, you let the owner know that you verified it was missing, by visiting the cache, and not finding it. You should read the log book if you can, to see if anyone was recently there and said they took it. If they do not respond, you can let the cache owner know that it was verified as missing. If they do not respond you can let me or your local reviewer know (include a link to the missing trackable, and you let us know that you confirmed it was not in the cache)and either of us can mark it missing for you.
Sometimes cachers become inactive, for whatever reason, and the emails bounce back, they are no longer in the game, and won't respond.

and a link to the thread, so you can read it in context:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=272196&st=0&p=4679760&hl=missing trackables&fromsearch=1entry4679760

Also, here are posts from another thread from

The Blorenges:

If the CO isn't interested in removing the 'trackable ghosts', and you've had no response from the trackable owners, and you're 100% sure that they're not in the cache then try sending all the details to the local reviewer for the area. Reviewers are also able to mark trackable items as 'missing'.

and

Eartha:

Please send me links to the trackables that are missing, through my profile. Cache links too, if you could. I got your email, chilledbud, but did not know which trackables you were referring to. I would be happy to provide this service.

and a link to the thread, again for context:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=272196&st=0&p=4679760&hl=missing trackables&fromsearch=1entry4679760

22k · March 1, 2012

Some of the comments in this thread sound like you think that I have taken it on myself to decide that reviewers/moderators should be performing this task.

Of course not. I have sent literately hundreds of TB/coins to be removed if not a thousand plus. So don't tell me that I don't understand or appreciate what it takes to clear these things out. Imagine what Eartha has to deal with.

The fact is that regardless of all our work (and ridicule and angst from fellow cachers) the impact beyond a very localized area hasn't made much difference.

We need a system resolution so you, me and Eartha aren't shoveling a handful of dirt out of a twenty thousand-foot hole.

edited for clarification

Edited March 1, 2012 by BlueDeuce

11.6k · March 1, 2012

Accuracy is great. If you take or drop a Trackable, log it. I'm all for it. But when a Trackable is gone, does it really matter that it's listed incorrectly? If the TO and CO don't care, or have reasons for leaving the logs alone, why is that a problem?

The Trackable was logged that way. If anything, we need to fix the cachers who aren't doing it right. The TO and CO had nothing to do with the mis-management of the Trackable, yet get the grief over the logs not being right. And the TO's the one who put time and money into the item, so if the TO wants the logs to stay as they were done, what's the harm in that?

I can tell before visiting a cache that it's got missing Trackables, so anyone can. It helps me decide which cache to not place a TB. Further, even a safe cache can be devoid of TBs when you arrive -- someone may have been there 5 minutes before you. The cache inventory may never be right, even if everyone's logging accurately. Just open the container, and if there's a Trackable, surprise, it's your lucky day, and you can skip merrily away and log it promptly to your heart's content. If it's just a log book, that's because someone else has already skipped merrily off with the Trackable. It happens.

It would be nice if everyone did it right. But so many other things about Geocaching are "everyone gets to do it their own way with no rules", maybe "lost" Trackables can have no rules, too.

Edited March 1, 2012 by kunarion

22k · March 1, 2012

Well said, but what's your problem with removing a four year old missing TB?

11.6k · March 1, 2012

Well said, but what's your problem with removing a four year old missing TB?

That's where it died. I'd almost prefer to leave it listed there as a warning. People will at least know the CO lost interest in their cache four years ago.

22k · March 1, 2012

Well said, but what's your problem with removing a four year old missing TB?

That's where it died. I'd almost prefer to leave it listed there as a warning. People will at least know the CO lost interest in their cache four years ago.

So we just quit trying?

8.8k · March 1, 2012

When a trackable is missing, confirmed missing, just send me a link to the missing bug. Not the name, and not the tracking or reference number, but. link to the trackable in question, and I can mark it missing.

So can your local reviewer, or anyone at contact @ geocaching dot com.

We really don't mind, and using a link gets faster service.

8.8k · March 1, 2012

If people think I am inundated with requests to mark trackables missing, I am not. I get the lists from Blue Duece often, but not every day, or even every week. There are only three or four others who regularly send me a list, or one or two to mark missing, but that's it. It is nowhere near a full time job. There aren't a lot of people letting me know. Some tell their reviewers, but I really don't mind. Sometimes I get can bored at work and need something to do, so don't be bashful.

Eartha @ geocachingadmin dot com.

Just remember, I only need the link to the trackable, not the name, or cache, or number.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Eartha
missing word

8.8k · March 1, 2012

DoubleBent,

I found your email, it got pushed off the first page, and I missed it, but those trackables are now marked missing.

Thank you for the reminder.

March 1, 2012

Thank you Eartha

3.4k · March 1, 2012

DoubleBent,

I found your email, it got pushed off the first page, and I missed it, but those trackables are now marked missing.

Thank you for the reminder.

Eartha-

Thank you very much for this, and for everything you do!!!

8.8k · March 2, 2012

Thank you, too.

Getting Trackables Marked Missing

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