If we keep doing what we've always done...

[+BlueDeuce]

I may or may not agree with some of the points listed in the OP, but I won't dignify such a post by a sock with a thoughtful response. Have the intestinal fortitude to post under your known caching name if you want to be taken seriously.

 

Fair enough. It would be nice to discuss it without a questionable OP.

[+tozainamboku]

I'm sure many of you here live in smaller areas that are, like mine, scarce on good hand-packed ice cream and low saturation of ice cream outlets. The annoying pattern I am seeing in this area is there is a huge division in enjoyable ice cream and ice cream that reminds you of brain freeze in a hurry on your lunch hour. The later of these two are beginning to pepper the map.

Don't get me wrong, more ice cream is good, but this situation has stirred up some pensiveness, and the silt from the once still bottom is clouding the waters. Someone tell me if this is ringing a bell:

 

Soft-serve

Sadistic small portions

No creativity in flavors or ice cream toppings

sprinkle thieves

Leaving ice wrappers on the ground

Letting ice cream melt

Tasteless toppings, if any

Challenges based on how much ice cream you can eat

Ice Cream deserts where you have no idea what the ingredients are.

Bad attitudes from other ice cream eaters

Limited demographics in ice cream makers

Eating ice cream for the sake of eating ice cream

Bad experiences with those who don't like your ice cream

Bad experiences with people who think ice cream is fattening or who are lactose intolerant.

 

 

Do any of you get to the point that planning a ice cream eating session gets more and more depressing when you spend more time driving and querying decent ice cream than actually enjoying a good ice cream?

 

The ice cream starts to become a fleeting novelty. The ice cream eating runs begin to seem more like working on an assembly line that you will never see the end of but know you are going to be sick.

 

Is there a favorable outcome that can break this cycle; or will we all eventually experience the revelation that catches your attention like stubbing your toe in the dark, after getting out of bed from a mindless form of dogmatic insomnia. Then, the bittersweet moment of the throbbing pain gives way to a chance to sleep as your awareness peaks and the moment of lucidity lulls you to sleep with the thought:

Instead of stumbling in the dark looking for better quality ice cream, maybe it would be easier to reach for the light-switch and find a better quality snack food.

 

If you're still reading this, I commend you. We all see issues left unanswered; one can only hope that we will see some form of change and empowerment of others to elevate the standards of ice cream.

 

Any thoughts or ideas?

 

:mmraspberry: :mmraspberry:

[+Mr.Benchmark]

I'm having some trouble understanding what exactly you like about this game.

 

I'm sure many of you here live in smaller areas that are, like mine, scarce on good hide locations and low saturation of caches. The annoying pattern I am seeing in this area is there is a huge division in fun caches and ones that remind you of running errands in a hurry on your lunch hour. The later of these two are beginning to pepper the map.

 

So is your complaint that there are too few caches, or too many lame caches?

 

• Pointless P&Gs
• Sadistic hiding of micros
• No creativity in hides or containers

• No cache maintenance
• Pointless swag, if any
• Puzzle caches with requirements that are exclusive to veterans with thousands of finds
• Puzzle caches made by those who can make something confusing, but not answer it simply
• Numbers for the sake of numbers

 

All of these have been problems for years. I made many of these same complaints when I quit playing this game in '05. (I definitely understand your point about P&G's - you don't have to find 'em, but filtering them all out can be tedious.)

 

Instead of stumbling in the dark looking for better quality caches, maybe it would be easier to reach for the light-switch and find a better quality hobby.

 

That's certainly one option you have. There are also other caching sites. They have different criteria, and different problems, although generally they all have VASTLY fewer cache choices than this site. (And some of them have the same problems - because certain things you mention are inherent in the game, at least as it is structured over the internet, and because, in the end, many of the issues are with PEOPLE - and that is going to be an issue no matter what.)

 

You can also find something else to do. Not trying to be rude here - not trying to tell you "GTFO!", but given how you seem to be feeling about this, I sincerely think you might be happier doing just that. Just pointing out that many of your complaints have been made before, and made for a long time. The issues present clearly have not changed, so you can conclude:

1. They aren't going to change, at least not anytime soon.

2. Your complaints aren't likely to change these things

 

So if you can't find a way to enjoy aspects of this game you find appealing, then life is just too short to be involved in a leisure time activity that you are finding to be annoying. So find something else to do, or find a way to make peace with this game and ignore the stuff you think is broken, and enjoy the stuff you like about it.

 

Unfortunately, though, starting threads on a forum about it will accomplish not one thing. Sorry.

 

Oh, I guess one other thing you could try is to hide some caches you think are awesome. Then when people tell you they aren't awesome (if that happens), try to figure out "why", and make better ones. (It is easy to please yourself - figuring out what other people like is a lot harder.) Perhaps this will inspire others to be more creative and fun. (Or perhaps you are a big hider in your area, and you are burned out by this - you put out a lot of work and effort, and don't feel rewarded by it anymore, or feel other hiders in your area put in reciprocal effort.)

 

But given the tone of your post (I recognize this tone well - I felt the same way at one point), perhaps you should try something different for a while.

 

One thing I will tell you though - there have been improvements to the game and to the site since I got frustrated and quit. And there are still awesome caches being hidden. Sure, there is a legion of (to my mind) not very enjoyable ones too, but despite that, there are plenty of quality hides, and the tools for finding them have improved too. People are certainly still having fun with this game - vastly more than when I thought "yeah, enough of this!" So in the end, if you aren't having fun, perhaps this just isn't for you.

 

Best of luck, hope you can find some fun again.

[+Mr.Benchmark]

I'm sure many of you here live in smaller areas that are, like mine, scarce on good hand-packed ice cream and low saturation of ice cream outlets. Any thoughts or ideas?

 

...

 

:mmraspberry: :mmraspberry:

 

I actually have this problem in my area. There is a little independent shop nearby - they serve softserve vanilla. And there's "Sonic", who serves - soft serve vanilla. None of this is particularly good ice cream, in my opinion. (In fact, it is really terrible ice cream in my opinion.) I believe the nearest non-soft serve place is at least 60 miles from here.

 

So I make my own now. I'm making mint-chocolate flavored ice cream this weekend for my kids, as a matter of fact.

 

You could write the same post about restaurants too.

 

I guess the short version is that we need to either learn how to enjoy searching for stuff that is unique and awesome and rare, or learn to make your own fun, or maybe some of both.

[+NeverSummer]

ibtl

 

[4wheelin_fool]

I'm sure many of you here live in smaller areas that are, like mine, scarce on good hide locations and low saturation of caches. The annoying pattern I am seeing in this area is there is a huge division in fun caches and ones that remind you of running errands in a hurry on your lunch hour. The later of these two are beginning to pepper the map.

Don't get me wrong, new caches are good, but this situation has stirred up some pensiveness, and the silt from the once still bottom is clouding the waters. Someone tell me if this is ringing a bell:

 

• Pointless P&Gs
  
• Sadistic hiding of micros
  
• No creativity in hides or containers
  
• TB / GC thieves
  
• Leaving areas worse that they were found
  
• No cache maintenance
  
• Pointless swag, if any
  
• Puzzle caches with requirements that are exclusive to veterans with thousands of finds
  
• Puzzle caches made by those who can make something confusing, but not answer it simply
  
• Bad attitudes from other cachers
  
• Limited demographics in cachers
  
• Numbers for the sake of numbers
  
• Bad experiences with those who find your caches
  
• Bad experiences with land / business owners and onlookers
  

 

Do any of you get to the point that planning a caching trip gets more and more depressing when you spend more time driving and querying decent caches than actually enjoying a good cache?

 

The hunt starts to become a fleeting novelty. The cache runs begin to seem more like working on an assembly line that you will never see the end of to know what you are actually making.

 

Is there a favorable outcome that can break this cycle; or will we all eventually experience the revelation that catches your attention like stubbing your toe in the dark, after getting out of bed from a mindless form of dogmatic insomnia. Then, the bittersweet moment of the throbbing pain gives way to a chance to sleep as your awareness peaks and the moment of lucidity lulls you to sleep with the thought:

Instead of stumbling in the dark looking for better quality caches, maybe it would be easier to reach for the light-switch and find a better quality hobby.

 

If you're still reading this, I commend you. We all see issues left unanswered; one can only hope that we will see some form of change and empowerment of others to elevate the standards of this hobby.

 

Any thoughts or ideas?

 

 

You sound like you are jaded and getting bored from the game, but using a sock because you are not ready to quit yet.

 

But it sounds similar to the occupy movement, which produced a laundry list of complaints with no real solution at hand.

 

I suggest leading by example and taking some anti-depression medication.

[+popokiiti]

I like "sadistic micros" or larger sadistic caches. If something makes me use my brain, great. Lack of maintenance - not good. But, I go out determined to enjoy whatever comes my way. Why? Because it's a GAME!!

[+terrkan78]

Eating ice cream for the sake of eating ice cream

For the life of me, I can't see the slightest thing wrong with eating ice cream for the sake of eating ice cream!

 

To the OP: When I start feeling angsty, like I'm just racking up caches for the sake of notches on my geocaching belt and not really enjoying it, I jettison everything but one destination cache - one that I've carefully selected (and will probably involve an hour+ drive), one that involves hiking because, for me, hiking is where it's at. I ignore every cache along the way (hard for me to do) and just go for the gold. When I'm on top of a hill that's taken me hours of walking to get there, that's gold (or mint oreo ice cream with hot fudge, if you will).

[+Chrysalides]

Any thoughts or ideas?

Time for a midnight freezer raid...

[+Absolute_Mellow]

I am going to chime in here if y'all don't mind. But let me point out, I have only been a member for 3 months. I have only posted 148 finds. What is my opinion worth? Well, I will leave that up to you. I am 47 years old and am probably considered a late bloomer to some of you.

 

I kind of understand what the original poster was saying. But I don't know how it used to be. I do know that I live in the scarce part of the Mojave desert. There is so much beauty to be found out here. Yet, the newest caches seem to be magnetic nanos stuck to stop signs and fire hydrants around town. Maybe that is the newest trend. I don't know.

 

I have personally hidden 11 caches and have made them larger caches with plenty of things to trade. And, they have had a lot of visitors. I also like to find these kinds of caches. When I do, I find that the cache hasn't been maintained and is full of crap. In one cache I found a used printer ink cartridge. The lid to the cache was busted and someone stuck a rock on top of it. I wound up replacing it for the CO.

 

I guess I like big caches well hidden with something to draw me to them. Maybe I am out of touch. That happens when you are nearing 50. In any case, I hope all of you enjoy this sport as much as I do. And have a blessed New Year.

[+A & J Tooling]

Welcome to the new world order. Don't like it? Then change it.

[+t4e]

 

Any thoughts or ideas?

 

 

.

 

 

That's a recognizable posting method. Not sure if that's a clue, but it makes me think "hmmmmm...."

 

Should we start a pool on whose hand is in this sock puppet?

 

I have a vague idea...

 

I'm wondering if I'm having the same vague idea.

 

you have proof?

 

No. (Wouldn't it be interesting if our IP addresses were publicly displayed on each post?)

 

You?

 

Or is it the same "hey, that looks familiar" feeling?

 

 

edited for another senior moment.

 

if we're right i think its made of blue agave, quite a high proof

 

speaking of IP addresses the admins can certainly see them and they know who it is

not long ago part of the reason for my suspension was that:

 

You fail to appreciate the different shades of "sock puppet".

 

so contrary to the forum guidelines looks like this case is one of the acceptable "shades" that allows one to hide their true identity

 

 

anyways, back on topic my take on this is that change is inevitable, like anything that grows over time

it is more apparent for those that have been in the game for a very long time but at the end of the day the essence of the game it is what you make of it

if you are unfortunate to live in a small town with few caches the changes will be even more striking

regardless of demographics eventually everyone will be at the point where either they have to travel long distances to grab one or ignore the "poor quality" new hides and find another hobby

 

i am not saying that there are not a lot of low quality hides popping up all over the place but i don't see a way of controlling that

the complaining from the "veterans" is not any different than the complaining from our parents in regards to the changes that come with each generation from music to how we dress to how we talk

 

i've been in it for 4 years now, and currently at 520 consecutive days and even though i noticed the surge of "poor" hides, bad coordinates, bad containers, missing containers when the cache is published etc, but i am nowhere close to feeling that i need to complain, to me its still an enjoyable hobby and mostly because of the reason behind why we chose to go out there

 

but if i ever feel i need to complain it will be this very account that will do so, i will not hide behind a sock puppet account

i

[+Presence]

Almost daily I see a thread complaining about LPC amd such. Whats the big deal? If you don't like them don't go after them however just because YOU don't doesn't like doesn't mean it isn't happiness for others. Not everyone can hike up the side of a mountain or even walk the soggy trails. Or maybe it gives them something to do durning the middle of the day. Or maybe they just prefer the concrete jungle over the real deal. I just don't understand how people are going to complain about a FREE game. I guess what I am saying is just because its not what you would do doesn't make it wrong.

 

One mans trash is another mans cache..............

[+emmett]

.

 

So let's see if I get this straight ... We have an OP who offers several valid concerns but such concerns are not treated seriously because his identity is a little more obscure than that of all his anonymous critics. As a result, we have a lengthy thread that does not include useful dialogue about actual problems but a collection of Internet trash spewed by people accusing the OP of "holier than thou" behavior the critics are guilty of themselves. Welcome to geocaching, if they are not swapping trash into your caches, or hiding junk in ridiculous places, they are spreading crap in this forum. While each is responsible for their own behavior, ultimately this is what the Frog has wrought by showing no interest in elevating the quality of geocaching whether it be out in the woods or on this forum. Consequently, the people in my area who once hid all the top quality caches are no longer active. I'd guess that trend is not unique to my area.

 

Sincerely,

Emmett, Founder

Lamp Posts and Guardrails Anonymous

 

.

[Keystone]

Almost daily I see a thread complaining about LPC amd such. Whats the big deal? If you don't like them don't go after them however just because YOU don't doesn't like doesn't mean it isn't happiness for others. Not everyone can hike up the side of a mountain or even walk the soggy trails. Or maybe it gives them something to do durning the middle of the day. Or maybe they just prefer the concrete jungle over the real deal. I just don't understand how people are going to complain about a FREE game. I guess what I am saying is just because its not what you would do doesn't make it wrong.

 

One mans trash is another mans cache..............

I merged this post into the active thread. Yes, there are a lot of threads on this theme. We didn't need another one.

[+JJnTJ]

I'm reluctant to create a "clever" hide because there are now so many cachers that they will (inadvertently) destroy the area as they search. A difficult hide leads to more searching. More searching leads to more trampling of grass, breaking of branches, etc. The last thing I want to do is help devastate a pretty place.

 

I concentrate on puzzles, so the lack of creative hides is less annoying. When I get bored of fetching bison tubes from streetsigns, I head out to the country to hike a few miles and find some ammo boxes.

 

The answer, of course, is to close GC.com registration!

[+L0ne.R]

So let's see if I get this straight ... We have an OP who offers several valid concerns but such concerns are not treated seriously because his identity is a little more obscure than that of all his anonymous critics. As a result, we have a lengthy thread that does not include useful dialogue about actual problems but a collection of Internet trash spewed by people accusing the OP of "holier than thou" behavior the critics are guilty of themselves. Welcome to geocaching, if they are not swapping trash into your caches, or hiding junk in ridiculous places, they are spreading crap in this forum. While each is responsible for their own behavior, ultimately this is what the Frog has wrought by showing no interest in elevating the quality of geocaching whether it be out in the woods or on this forum. Consequently, the people in my area who once hid all the top quality caches are no longer active. I'd guess that trend is not unique to my area.

 

Sincerely,

Emmett, Founder

Lamp Posts and Guardrails Anonymous

 

I noticed that too. The points the "anonymous" OP made are valid. All this kerfuffle over an account name seems to be a diversion tactic.

[+Presence]

I merged this post into the active thread. Yes, there are a lot of threads on this theme. We didn't need another one.

 

 

Im so glad I saw this! I really thought I had lost my mind. I went back to look for my thread and it was gone. Whoaaaa. heehee. I swear Im not a blonde!

[+L0ne.R]

Almost daily I see a thread complaining about LPC and such. Whats the big deal?

 

I think it's because people like to raise the bar a little and not lower it. A few LPCs (and up-your-find-count caches) sprinkled among the masses are OK but when it becomes the norm, and mostly created out of laziness, then it lowers the standard of the game.

[+Snoogans]

Almost daily I see a thread complaining about LPC and such. Whats the big deal?

 

I think it's because people like to raise the bar a little and not lower it. A few LPCs (and up-your-find-count caches) sprinkled among the masses are OK but when it becomes the norm, and mostly created out of laziness, then it lowers the standard of the game.

 

What pray tell is the standard of the game?

[+L0ne.R]

Almost daily I see a thread complaining about LPC and such. Whats the big deal?

 

I think it's because people like to raise the bar a little and not lower it. A few LPCs (and up-your-find-count caches) sprinkled among the masses are OK but when it becomes the norm, and mostly created out of laziness, then it lowers the standard of the game.

 

What pray tell is the standard of the game?

 

If the word "standard" is bothersome how about "it lowers the quality of the game"? But of course then the debate rages about how all LPCs are quality caches.

 

Personally I think the standard was set at the first cache hide - the Dave Ulmer hide. A swag size geocache full of a variety cache suitable for young and old in a nice location.

[+Snoogans]

Almost daily I see a thread complaining about LPC amd such. Whats the big deal? If you don't like them don't go after them however just because YOU don't doesn't like doesn't mean it isn't happiness for others. Not everyone can hike up the side of a mountain or even walk the soggy trails. Or maybe it gives them something to do durning the middle of the day. Or maybe they just prefer the concrete jungle over the real deal. I just don't understand how people are going to complain about a FREE game. I guess what I am saying is just because its not what you would do doesn't make it wrong.

 

One mans trash is another mans cache..............

I merged this post into the active thread. Yes, there are a lot of threads on this theme. We didn't need another one.

 

You should actually merge the whole thread with this one. That is what I created it for and since the OP of this thread is a sock puppet, it's the perfect time to start usung it.

[Mr.Yuck]

Almost daily I see a thread complaining about LPC amd such. Whats the big deal? If you don't like them don't go after them however just because YOU don't doesn't like doesn't mean it isn't happiness for others. Not everyone can hike up the side of a mountain or even walk the soggy trails. Or maybe it gives them something to do durning the middle of the day. Or maybe they just prefer the concrete jungle over the real deal. I just don't understand how people are going to complain about a FREE game. I guess what I am saying is just because its not what you would do doesn't make it wrong.

 

One mans trash is another mans cache..............

 

LPC's are Happiness for others? Not really. By my estimation:

 

5% hate them, and ignore them.

10% hate them, complain about them, but still lift every skirt in town.

80% know they're lame, but don't care, and lift every skirt in town.

5% are all like rainbows and unicorns (happiness for others), not everyone can hike up the side of a mountain, etc..

 

Just my estimation, of course.

[+davetherocketguy]

Almost daily I see a thread complaining about LPC and such. Whats the big deal?

 

I think it's because people like to raise the bar a little and not lower it. A few LPCs (and up-your-find-count caches) sprinkled among the masses are OK but when it becomes the norm, and mostly created out of laziness, then it lowers the standard of the game.

 

What pray tell is the standard of the game?

 

If the word "standard" is bothersome how about "it lowers the quality of the game"? But of course then the debate rages about how all LPCs are quality caches.

 

Personally I think the standard was set at the first cache hide - the Dave Ulmer hide. A swag size geocache full of a variety cache suitable for young and old in a nice location.

 

This whole discussion amuses me. I've been into high powered rocketry for years and the forums for that hobby read very similar to this one. A big part of rocketry is obviously construction. When you want to make something that is going to go mach 2 or something that weighs in at 100lbs on the launch pad there are ways to construct the rocket - usually several different ways and they all work equally well with each of their own pros and cons. Unfortunately, a lot of people have very strong opinions of how stuff ought to be done and will not listen to differing opinions.

 

This relates to GC in a way I did not expect when I first got my GPS. This is a hobby that can be taken MANY different directions and done in many different ways. Truth is, sometimes there is no right or wrong answer. The right answer (instead of complaining) is do what makes you happy. If you don't like bison tubes then don't hunt for them - and what the heck are LPC's anyways? This hobby is what YOU make of it (I swear I said that at least a few dozen times to other rocketeers). Be greatful there are few standards as this allows massive amounts of creativity. Be greatful of the large number of people in this hobby. I see on my latest pocket query that there are 300 caches within 12 miles of my house! Rocketry is NOTHING like that. There are maybe 10k in the entire world that do high powered stuff like myself.

 

-Dave

[Mr.Yuck]

Almost daily I see a thread complaining about LPC and such. Whats the big deal?

 

I think it's because people like to raise the bar a little and not lower it. A few LPCs (and up-your-find-count caches) sprinkled among the masses are OK but when it becomes the norm, and mostly created out of laziness, then it lowers the standard of the game.

 

What pray tell is the standard of the game?

 

If the word "standard" is bothersome how about "it lowers the quality of the game"? But of course then the debate rages about how all LPCs are quality caches.

 

Personally I think the standard was set at the first cache hide - the Dave Ulmer hide. A swag size geocache full of a variety cache suitable for young and old in a nice location.

 

This whole discussion amuses me. I've been into high powered rocketry for years and the forums for that hobby read very similar to this one. A big part of rocketry is obviously construction. When you want to make something that is going to go mach 2 or something that weighs in at 100lbs on the launch pad there are ways to construct the rocket - usually several different ways and they all work equally well with each of their own pros and cons. Unfortunately, a lot of people have very strong opinions of how stuff ought to be done and will not listen to differing opinions.

 

This relates to GC in a way I did not expect when I first got my GPS. This is a hobby that can be taken MANY different directions and done in many different ways. Truth is, sometimes there is no right or wrong answer. The right answer (instead of complaining) is do what makes you happy. If you don't like bison tubes then don't hunt for them - and what the heck are LPC's anyways? This hobby is what YOU make of it (I swear I said that at least a few dozen times to other rocketeers). Be greatful there are few standards as this allows massive amounts of creativity. Be greatful of the large number of people in this hobby. I see on my latest pocket query that there are 300 caches within 12 miles of my house! Rocketry is NOTHING like that. There are maybe 10k in the entire world that do high powered stuff like myself.

 

-Dave

 

Not a good analogy, in my opinion. An LPC takes about a minute to place, cost a dollar if you're lucky (if you use a film canister, it's pretty much free). Does one of the different methods of Rocketry construction cost $1 and take a minute, and it's just as good as the one that costs $20 and takes 2 hours? Probably not, but what do I know?

[+davetherocketguy]

Not a good analogy, in my opinion. An LPC takes about a minute to place, cost a dollar if you're lucky (if you use a film canister, it's pretty much free). Does one of the different methods of Rocketry construction cost $1 and take a minute, and it's just as good as the one that costs $20 and takes 2 hours? Probably not, but what do I know?

 

Actually, there are. And the differences can be even more dramatic than that. For example, for motor retention (which is a huge subject of contention) there are $40 options out there and $1 options out there. Both work just fine and I see people using both methods and everything inbetween out in the field.

 

-Dave

[+L0ne.R]

Almost daily I see a thread complaining about LPC and such. Whats the big deal?

 

I think it's because people like to raise the bar a little and not lower it. A few LPCs (and up-your-find-count caches) sprinkled among the masses are OK but when it becomes the norm, and mostly created out of laziness, then it lowers the standard of the game.

 

What pray tell is the standard of the game?

 

If the word "standard" is bothersome how about "it lowers the quality of the game"? But of course then the debate rages about how all LPCs are quality caches.

 

Personally I think the standard was set at the first cache hide - the Dave Ulmer hide. A swag size geocache full of a variety cache suitable for young and old in a nice location.

 

This whole discussion amuses me. I've been into high powered rocketry for years and the forums for that hobby read very similar to this one. A big part of rocketry is obviously construction. When you want to make something that is going to go mach 2 or something that weighs in at 100lbs on the launch pad there are ways to construct the rocket - usually several different ways and they all work equally well with each of their own pros and cons. Unfortunately, a lot of people have very strong opinions of how stuff ought to be done and will not listen to differing opinions.

 

This relates to GC in a way I did not expect when I first got my GPS. This is a hobby that can be taken MANY different directions and done in many different ways. Truth is, sometimes there is no right or wrong answer. The right answer (instead of complaining) is do what makes you happy. If you don't like bison tubes then don't hunt for them - and what the heck are LPC's anyways? This hobby is what YOU make of it (I swear I said that at least a few dozen times to other rocketeers). Be greatful there are few standards as this allows massive amounts of creativity. Be greatful of the large number of people in this hobby. I see on my latest pocket query that there are 300 caches within 12 miles of my house! Rocketry is NOTHING like that. There are maybe 10k in the entire world that do high powered stuff like myself.

 

-Dave

 

Not a good analogy, in my opinion. An LPC takes about a minute to place, cost a dollar if you're lucky (if you use a film canister, it's pretty much free). Does one of the different methods of Rocketry construction cost $1 and take a minute, and it's just as good as the one that costs $20 and takes 2 hours? Probably not, but what do I know?

 

Can you imagine Rocketry similar to geocaching? People without any skills or knowledge, not just participating by watching rocket launches, they would build and launch them themselves. Even if they've never even watched a launch before or read any of the rocketry guides and manuals. The number of rocket launchings would surely grow exponentially. Most of those rockets would be duds of course and a few of the old-time hobbiests will likely get upset at the supposed decline of the "standard" but it's worth it in order to have lots more rocket launches to attend.

[+L0ne.R]

Almost daily I see a thread complaining about LPC and such. Whats the big deal?

 

I think it's because people like to raise the bar a little and not lower it. A few LPCs (and up-your-find-count caches) sprinkled among the masses are OK but when it becomes the norm, and mostly created out of laziness, then it lowers the standard of the game.

 

What pray tell is the standard of the game?

 

If the word "standard" is bothersome how about "it lowers the quality of the game"? But of course then the debate rages about how all LPCs are quality caches.

 

Personally I think the standard was set at the first cache hide - the Dave Ulmer hide. A swag size geocache full of a variety cache suitable for young and old in a nice location.

 

This whole discussion amuses me. I've been into high powered rocketry for years and the forums for that hobby read very similar to this one. A big part of rocketry is obviously construction. When you want to make something that is going to go mach 2 or something that weighs in at 100lbs on the launch pad there are ways to construct the rocket - usually several different ways and they all work equally well with each of their own pros and cons. Unfortunately, a lot of people have very strong opinions of how stuff ought to be done and will not listen to differing opinions.

 

This relates to GC in a way I did not expect when I first got my GPS. This is a hobby that can be taken MANY different directions and done in many different ways. Truth is, sometimes there is no right or wrong answer. The right answer (instead of complaining) is do what makes you happy. If you don't like bison tubes then don't hunt for them - and what the heck are LPC's anyways? This hobby is what YOU make of it (I swear I said that at least a few dozen times to other rocketeers). Be greatful there are few standards as this allows massive amounts of creativity. Be greatful of the large number of people in this hobby. I see on my latest pocket query that there are 300 caches within 12 miles of my house! Rocketry is NOTHING like that. There are maybe 10k in the entire world that do high powered stuff like myself.

 

-Dave

 

Not a good analogy, in my opinion. An LPC takes about a minute to place, cost a dollar if you're lucky (if you use a film canister, it's pretty much free). Does one of the different methods of Rocketry construction cost $1 and take a minute, and it's just as good as the one that costs $20 and takes 2 hours? Probably not, but what do I know?

 

Can you imagine Rocketry similar to geocaching? People without any skills or knowledge, not just participating by watching rocket launches, they would build and launch them themselves. Even if they've never even watched a launch before or read any of the rocketry guides and manuals. The number of rocket launchings would surely grow exponentially. Most of those rockets would be duds of course and a few of the old-time hobbiests will likely get upset at the supposed decline of the "standard" but it's worth it in order to have lots more rocket launches to attend.

 

Actually, there are. And the differences can be even more dramatic than that. For example, for motor retention (which is a huge subject of contention) there are $40 options out there and $1 options out there. Both work just fine and I see people using both methods and everything inbetween out in the field.

 

-Dave

 

Hmmmm. Maybe it's already happening. I don't think that's a good thing.

[+Snoogans]

Almost daily I see a thread complaining about LPC and such. Whats the big deal?

 

I think it's because people like to raise the bar a little and not lower it. A few LPCs (and up-your-find-count caches) sprinkled among the masses are OK but when it becomes the norm, and mostly created out of laziness, then it lowers the standard of the game.

 

What pray tell is the standard of the game?

 

If the word "standard" is bothersome how about "it lowers the quality of the game"? But of course then the debate rages about how all LPCs are quality caches.

 

Personally I think the standard was set at the first cache hide - the Dave Ulmer hide. A swag size geocache full of a variety cache suitable for young and old in a nice location.

The original stash was a drive up, buried cache, on the side of the road and less than 5 feet from the pavement. It contained among its swag at least 1 item of food. There is some question as to whether he had permission at the time. I don't know. There is permission now.

 

Dave Ulmer could not get that cache listed on this cache listing site if he were to try to do so today.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Snoogans

[+PokerLuck]

 

If you don't like bison tubes then don't hunt for them - and what the heck are LPC's anyways?

 

-Dave

 

Dave, LPC stands for "Light Pole Cache". If you lift the skirt around the base of most light poles, you can slip a small container in there. They're easy to place, easy to find, and some people in the geocaching community use them as an example that the hobby is declining at a horrific pace. On the other hand, I'd bet that a majority of people like them or at least will find them and log them. Personally, I don't particularly like them, but on a rainy or cold day when I just have to get one more cache, I really appreciate them.

[4wheelin_fool]

But at their core, both act as barriers between who we really are and the face we present to the community. Should socks be outlawed while traditional monikers are allowed? If a sock is not used to harass or sling vitriol, is having a secondary fictional personality even a TOU violation?

 

Not sure...

 

I have many SP accounts. I use them to to hide caches to throw off the locals who think they have me figured out. I DON'T use them to post on forums since the great Soylent Green debacle of 2003 and that was just to have some fun and not to cause trouble or bring angst into the forum. Jeremy didn't find my future predictions to be very humorous.

 

Your sock which came in here and stated that all caches should be hidden under a GREAT BIG PILE OF STICKS was more recent than that.

[+Chrysalides]

Welcome to the new world order. Don't like it? Then change it.

Occupy Lily Pad!

[+dfx]

Your sock which came in here and stated that all caches should be hidden under a GREAT BIG PILE OF STICKS was more recent than that.

 

Oh, is that what GPS stands for? Great Pile of Sticks? I never knew that...

[+davetherocketguy]

 

Can you imagine Rocketry similar to geocaching? People without any skills or knowledge, not just participating by watching rocket launches, they would build and launch them themselves. Even if they've never even watched a launch before or read any of the rocketry guides and manuals. The number of rocket launchings would surely grow exponentially. Most of those rockets would be duds of course and a few of the old-time hobbiests will likely get upset at the supposed decline of the "standard" but it's worth it in order to have lots more rocket launches to attend.

 

Your sarcasm aside...You have no idea how close to the truth that is.

 

Noobs show up all the time full of gusto. Have no idea what they are doing.

 

A few veterans get upset about the "declining" quality of the projects.

 

Frankly, so long as we are meeting or exceeding safety standards set in place by our national organization - fly it. Who cares if it was painted with automotive paint or brushed on latex. I am the president of my local rocket club and have been so for the last 2 years so I do sorta know what I am talking about.

 

I am starting to rethink my participation in this forum. My analogy was meant to be a very loose comparison and apparently that has ruffled some feathers. I apologize to all.

[+Mr.Benchmark]

Dave, LPC stands for "Light Pole Cache". If you lift the skirt around the base of most light poles, you can slip a small container in there. They're easy to place, easy to find, and some people in the geocaching community use them as an example that the hobby is declining at a horrific pace. On the other hand, I'd bet that a majority of people like them or at least will find them and log them. Personally, I don't particularly like them, but on a rainy or cold day when I just have to get one more cache, I really appreciate them.

 

The main problem with these caches, in my opinion, other than once you have done one, the surprise value is basically zero, is that they are often in fairly uninspiring locations. If your goal is to set out for a day of adventure, and your travels bring you to a series of identical hides at local stores, you can imagine some might feel disappointment with that outcome. The fear is that such hides would overtake all other types of hides. (It's fine to say "if you don't like it don't hunt it!", but if it's your only option, this isn't much comfort.) That said, there are still plenty of other types of caches in most locations. Filtering out the ones you don't like isn't always trivial, though. (Imagine going to a restaurant review site. You want to find something other than fast food - but the site didn't make that easy, and you didn't really know what you were getting until you got there. You can imagine someone expressing disappointment in such a site. That's kind of how I see this issue with geocaching - these are the fast food of geocaches.)

 

There is a time and a place for these caches. An LPC that directs you someplace interesting and modestly awesome is sometimes the only way to get the job done. Also, I'm sure some people enjoy these on lunch breaks, or having a little opportunity for game play on otherwise mundane errands they have to run anyway.

[+ArcherDragoon]

Dave, LPC stands for "Light Pole Cache". If you lift the skirt around the base of most light poles, you can slip a small container in there. They're easy to place, easy to find, and some people in the geocaching community use them as an example that the hobby is declining at a horrific pace. On the other hand, I'd bet that a majority of people like them or at least will find them and log them. Personally, I don't particularly like them, but on a rainy or cold day when I just have to get one more cache, I really appreciate them.

 

The main problem with these caches, in my opinion, other than once you have done one, the surprise value is basically zero, is that they are often in fairly uninspiring locations. If your goal is to set out for a day of adventure, and your travels bring you to a series of identical hides at local stores, you can imagine some might feel disappointment with that outcome. The fear is that such hides would overtake all other types of hides. (It's fine to say "if you don't like it don't hunt it!", but if it's your only option, this isn't much comfort.) That said, there are still plenty of other types of caches in most locations. Filtering out the ones you don't like isn't always trivial, though. (Imagine going to a restaurant review site. You want to find something other than fast food - but the site didn't make that easy, and you didn't really know what you were getting until you got there. You can imagine someone expressing disappointment in such a site. That's kind of how I see this issue with geocaching - these are the fast food of geocaches.)

 

There is a time and a place for these caches. An LPC that directs you someplace interesting and modestly awesome is sometimes the only way to get the job done. Also, I'm sure some people enjoy these on lunch breaks, or having a little opportunity for game play on otherwise mundane errands they have to run anyway.

I was surprised at a light pole once...but, then, the light came on and all made sense...

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Almost daily I see a thread complaining about LPC amd such. Whats the big deal? If you don't like them don't go after them however just because YOU don't doesn't like doesn't mean it isn't happiness for others.

 

Sorry, but it's just not that simple. My general stance on this is if someone enjoys playing the game a certain way or hiding a certain type of cache brings someone else happiness I'm not going to complain. However, once how someone else begins playing the game in a manner that has a negative impact on how others play the game I'm going to speak up.

 

It's easy to say "if you don't like this type of cache, just don't find them" if you don't discriminate about the type of caches you find. A cacher that doesn't discriminate about the types of caches they find doesn't have to do anything. A cacher that would prefer to find caches of a certain type has to spend time constructing some some of filter to find those cache listings for the cache they like and, the more an area becomes saturated with a type of cache they don't like, the farther they have to travel. A proliferation of caches LPCs and such take up far more proximity real estate than that taken up by the type of caches they prefer simply because there are far fewer caches of that type.

 

I also believe that when a hider spends more time (and money) constructing a cache that doesn't cater to numbers hounds that they're going to spend more time researching the area or permissions issues. I suspect the vast majority of LPC caches are placed without permission and every time a land manager discovers a cache placed on their property without permission (and prefers that it not be located there) it gives the game of geocaching a bloody nose. That can negatively impact all of us.

 

Along the same lines, when cachers are primarily motivated by the number of caches they find, it becomes a "race", and there have been numerous threads about some of the shortcuts that numbers hounds will take in pursuit of a higher find count. Some of those behaviors can influence how land managers perceive the game of geocaching, potentially blocking out places where someone that *would* ask permission might place a cache. Those that prefer to find caches that present more of a challenge, either as a result of a creative hide, or a bit further down the trail more likely are not rushing to find the cache to get on to the next one, are going to spend a little time doing some CITO, and are probably going to write logs worth reading.

Edited January 12, 2012 by NYPaddleCacher

[+Mr.Benchmark]

Along the same lines, when cachers are primarily motivated by the number of caches they find, it becomes a "race", and there have been numerous threads about some of the shortcuts that numbers hounds will take in pursuit of a higher find count.

 

There are a number of ways one could "score" this game for competitive purposes, most of which would be arguably superior to a raw count of finds. However, it is pretty clear, since people have complained about this since '05, that this site is simply unlikely to implement such systems. I think the hope is that challenges will help channel this into more interesting contests.

 

The one merit "find count" has, though, is that as a metric, it is pretty simple and easy to understand, while some of the other scoring schemes I've seen are neither of those things.

 

Given the growth in the game over the past few years, if the "lame P&G's" are going to ruin the game, then from the perspective of the site owners, "bring on the ruin!" - the game has grown enormously despite these issues.

 

What would actually be nice, in my opinion, was a query where you could basically say "don't return this listing to the query unless there is a big chunk o' green pixels around it on the map..."

[+ras_oscar]

I'm sure many of you here live in smaller areas that are, like mine, scarce on good hide locations and low saturation of caches. The annoying pattern I am seeing in this area is there is a huge division in fun caches and ones that remind you of running errands in a hurry on your lunch hour. The later of these two are beginning to pepper the map.

Don't get me wrong, new caches are good, but this situation has stirred up some pensiveness, and the silt from the once still bottom is clouding the waters. Someone tell me if this is ringing a bell:

 

• Pointless P&Gs
  
• Sadistic hiding of micros
  
• No creativity in hides or containers
  
• TB / GC thieves
  
• Leaving areas worse that they were found
  
• No cache maintenance
  
• Pointless swag, if any
  
• Puzzle caches with requirements that are exclusive to veterans with thousands of finds
  
• Puzzle caches made by those who can make something confusing, but not answer it simply
  
• Bad attitudes from other cachers
  
• Limited demographics in cachers
  
• Numbers for the sake of numbers
  
• Bad experiences with those who find your caches
  
• Bad experiences with land / business owners and onlookers
  

 

Do any of you get to the point that planning a caching trip gets more and more depressing when you spend more time driving and querying decent caches than actually enjoying a good cache?

 

The hunt starts to become a fleeting novelty. The cache runs begin to seem more like working on an assembly line that you will never see the end of to know what you are actually making.

 

Is there a favorable outcome that can break this cycle; or will we all eventually experience the revelation that catches your attention like stubbing your toe in the dark, after getting out of bed from a mindless form of dogmatic insomnia. Then, the bittersweet moment of the throbbing pain gives way to a chance to sleep as your awareness peaks and the moment of lucidity lulls you to sleep with the thought:

Instead of stumbling in the dark looking for better quality caches, maybe it would be easier to reach for the light-switch and find a better quality hobby.

 

If you're still reading this, I commend you. We all see issues left unanswered; one can only hope that we will see some form of change and empowerment of others to elevate the standards of this hobby.

 

Any thoughts or ideas?

 

 

.

 

I'd like to bypass the sock puppet issue and address the OP comments.

 

Micros are hidden to avoid the geojunk and soggy slop that ultimately becomes the contents of larger containers. It's easier maintenance for those COs that want to spend more time caching and less time on maintenance. I don't have any hides because, in part I prefer not to deal with the maintenance issues and approaching strangers to gain their permission to pursue my hobby on their property.

 

To those people that choose to hide caches, thank you. I will do my best to assist in maintainig the cache. I will pour out the water, dry off the contents, blot the water off the log sheet and replace it in a new zlock. It will help prolong the life of the hide, and reduce the amount of time you spend maintaining caches. If the coordinates are significantly hff I wil post the offset som you can decide whether or not mto recheck. That's how a say thank you to those of you who take the time and trouble to place a cache for me to find.

 

I have always filtered out all puzzle caches. I attempted one or two early in my career and found them frustrating and ultimately unrewarding. They are there for those of us that choose to pursue them and for that I'm glad. I don't share that passion and have never been short on caches to find in any area I traversed.

 

There have been many days where a long string of unsuccessful searches was brightened by a couple LPCs, and for that I'm grateful. When I go out to cache, I hope to come back and log some finds, but mostly I go out to get off my fat lazy A&^ and do something more active than poking the buttons on the remote. LPCs and micros have their place. If you don't like them filter them out.

 

There are many ways of gaining satisfaction from geocaching. Some people live for the events. Some people enjoy boosting their founds stats and the accompanying rise in the state rankings. Go forth and be bountiful. Some people enjoy filling in the States cached in map. Some people are working on filling in the fizzy table. You get the idea. Find something that makes you happy and do it. If it's not fun its not a hobby any more its a chore. The potato chair is still there.

[knowschad]

Almost daily I see a thread complaining about LPC amd such. Whats the big deal? If you don't like them don't go after them however just because YOU don't doesn't like doesn't mean it isn't happiness for others.

 

Sorry, but it's just not that simple. My general stance on this is if someone enjoys playing the game a certain way or hiding a certain type of cache brings someone else happiness I'm not going to complain. However, once how someone else begins playing the game in a manner that has a negative impact on how others play the game I'm going to speak up.

 

It's easy to say "if you don't like this type of cache, just don't find them" if you don't discriminate about the type of caches you find. A cacher that doesn't discriminate about the types of caches they find doesn't have to do anything. A cacher that would prefer to find caches of a certain type has to spend time constructing some some of filter to find those cache listings for the cache they like and, the more an area becomes saturated with a type of cache they don't like, the farther they have to travel. A proliferation of caches LPCs and such take up far more proximity real estate than that taken up by the type of caches they prefer simply because there are far fewer caches of that type.

 

I also believe that when a hider spends more time (and money) constructing a cache that doesn't cater to numbers hounds that they're going to spend more time researching the area or permissions issues. I suspect the vast majority of LPC caches are placed without permission and every time a land manager discovers a cache placed on their property without permission (and prefers that it not be located there) it gives the game of geocaching a bloody nose. That can negatively impact all of us.

 

Along the same lines, when cachers are primarily motivated by the number of caches they find, it becomes a "race", and there have been numerous threads about some of the shortcuts that numbers hounds will take in pursuit of a higher find count. Some of those behaviors can influence how land managers perceive the game of geocaching, potentially blocking out places where someone that *would* ask permission might place a cache. Those that prefer to find caches that present more of a challenge, either as a result of a creative hide, or a bit further down the trail more likely are not rushing to find the cache to get on to the next one, are going to spend a little time doing some CITO, and are probably going to write logs worth reading.

 

Actually, I see the possibility of an even more significant problem, and that is with geocaches becoming so boring that nobody is interested in joining. I have already personally heard of two instances where an established geocacher brought some friends out that wanted to see what it was all about. The chosen locations were full of what some of us would call "lame" caches (the rest of you really do know what we mean) and these potential newbies were so turned off that they were not interested in continuing.

[diggingest_dogg616]

<snip>...

 

This game, like much else in life, is what you make it. If you turn it into a fun-sucking, soulless drudgery of an experience then you shouldn't expect it to get much better until you start trying find a way to make it better for yourself.

 

I travel quite a bit and yes I do find searching for caches that fit my style a drudgery. Don't get me wrong, not every cache out there should meet my expectations, but it is pretty tough when you spend much of your time searching for an area just to pull into a parking lot.

 

I'm not as angsty as the OP (nor am I that sock-puppet) but I wouldn't mind a tad bit more information to narrow my search parameters.

Certain things are drudgery. I hate all the preparation that goes into planning a trip, an event, or just figuring out what I need to get at the store to make it through a week. But being at my vacation destination, at my party, or knowing that I can spend the rest of the week without returning to the store makes up for it. If the game doesn't make up for prep work, then something's wrong.

 

Information can make figuring out what caches to grab easier, but not everyone is going to provide what is needed. No use getting tied in a knot about it like the topic opening post.

 

We can help each other make certain things easier (listing necessary information) but a few things are out of our hands (sadistic micros- apparently some people love 'em).

 

 

I'm not talking about making caches easier to find. I'm talking about making the caches we want to find easier to determine. Why is that such a problem, do we think it's impossible? We have to give up too much information?

That's what I'm talking about.... I just can't type it out in a coherent manner.

[+tozainamboku]

Actually, I see the possibility of an even more significant problem, and that is with geocaches becoming so boring that nobody is interested in joining. I have already personally heard of two instances where an established geocacher brought some friends out that wanted to see what it was all about. The chosen locations were full of what some of us would call "lame" caches (the rest of you really do know what we mean) and these potential newbies were so turned off that they were not interested in continuing.

People have been predicting the demise of geocaching because of lame micro and lamppost hides for at least 8 years. Yet what happens? Geocaching continues to get more popular.

 

Sure we have anecdotes about people who tried to introduce a friend to geocaching and got the reaction "This seems lame". But you know what, that has little to do with the type of caches you show them. Some people are going to find searching for hidden containers lame no matter where they are hidden or whether there is a just a log or a bunch of trinkets to trade.

 

If you have a friend who likes hiking, then you might want to take them to some hiking caches. If you have a friend who likes visiting new places you might try taking them to caches at interesting places. If your friend likes puzzling head scratchers, then take them to more difficult caches or ones involving some puzzle to solve in the field. But in the end, the people who enjoy geocaching probably are ones who get excited about finding some secret that only geocachers are in on.

 

Newbies go out and find an LPC hidden down the street from them and think "This is cool. Someone took the time to hide something here I can find." And they probably think it was cool someone figured out you could hide something this way as well. No muggle is going to randomly lift up lamp post skirts, so this is a good place for a geocache. And when they go to hide a cache they may very well hide something the same way.

 

Sure we can encourage people to think of clever ways to hide a cache. Trouble is there aren't all that many original ways to do it. Not everyone has skills to build a custom container or create great camouflage. People who don't have these skills or the time to develop them, will resort to hides that some others wish to label as "lame". But in fact they are hiding geocaches that will remain secret from muggles and which geocachers can go find. And as long as people find it cool to be in on the secret containers hidden around town they are going to hide more of these cache they enjoyed finding.

[Clan Riffster]

C'mon, we all know why people create sock puppet accounts.

Do tell? You could use me as an example.

I currently have two sock puppet accounts.

(neither user name has lobsters or phones in them)

Can you determine why I created those two?

 

Darn socks!

I saw what you did there!

 

a fun-sucking, soulless drudgery of an experience

I think that's the best description I've ever read for hunting an LPC.

I may need to steal that for a T-shirt.

 

I have only been a member for 3 months. I have only posted 148 finds. What is my opinion worth?

I have been caching for years, found 1600+ caches.

In my opinion, your opinion is every bit as valid as mine.

Welcome to the addiction!

Thanx for not embracing micro-spew for your hides.

[+JL_HSTRE]

To the OP or those similarly concerned:

 

Use PQs; filter based on D/T and/or cache size.

 

Not every cache will be enjoyed by every cacher.

 

Use Favorites as a guide.

 

Hide the kind of caches you want to find.

 

Provide constructive feedback in your logs when appropriate.

 

Be vigilant with NM and NA logs.

 

If you find several caches that you enjoy hidden by the same CO, look for more caches by that CO. If you find several caches that you really don't enjoy hidden by the same CO, don't look for caches by that CO.

 

Get permission, use good containers, perform maintenance as needed, be friendly and communicative, and set a good example for others.

[+Kenkeknem Sleuth]

I think that someone needs a new hobby. If you are't enjoying it, then do something else.

Or needs to move where there are 10,000+ caches in a large city.

[+sholomar]

 

Actually, I see the possibility of an even more significant problem, and that is with geocaches becoming so boring that nobody is interested in joining. I have already personally heard of two instances where an established geocacher brought some friends out that wanted to see what it was all about. The chosen locations were full of what some of us would call "lame" caches (the rest of you really do know what we mean) and these potential newbies were so turned off that they were not interested in continuing.

 

this was my first impression when I stumbled upon geocaching a couple weeks back.. I live in a low population density area and the number of caches around here seems to be on the high side, but then I saw most of it was done by one person and it was kind of an anomaly to have so many in such a small town out here.

 

I plan to get to at least 50 finds and trying to get some variety in, but it doesn't get warm enough here until April consistantly.

Looking forward to biking around kampeska in the spring and getting all the hides he has around the lake's perimeter. I will say it's nice to have the option there to up the count when they are place all in a straight line on a path I would have ridden anyways.

 

http://coord.info/map?ll=44.924818,-97.207166&z=14

Edited January 13, 2012 by sholomar

[+Mr.Benchmark]

If you have a friend who likes hiking, then you might want to take them to some hiking caches. If you have a friend who likes visiting new places you might try taking them to caches at interesting places.

 

I think this is actually one of the OP's complaints - it can be hard to find what you want if you are looking for something specific?

 

I think it is difficult to search for hiking caches, at least if you want to narrow down the distance / elevation change to any degree. The terrain ratings are really pretty broad and somewhat subjective, and the attributes for this stuff aren't very precise, and they aren't universally used. I am reasonably sure that there caches in my area with the same terrain rating, some of which I could physically do without much problem, and some that would be extremely challenging or not doable by me. To be sure you can tell a lot of this from looking at topo maps, but you can't put "look on the map" in a PQ...

 

Finding interesting places is, in general, impossible from the cache page, and while solutions for this might be possible, they are simply not going to happen here. I think this is unfortunate, because in my opinion, finding cool places and exploring stuff is the BEST part of this game. However, it is what it is. (I do think the addition of favorites helps this situation though.)

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Along the same lines, when cachers are primarily motivated by the number of caches they find, it becomes a "race", and there have been numerous threads about some of the shortcuts that numbers hounds will take in pursuit of a higher find count.

 

There are a number of ways one could "score" this game for competitive purposes, most of which would be arguably superior to a raw count of finds. However, it is pretty clear, since people have complained about this since '05, that this site is simply unlikely to implement such systems. I think the hope is that challenges will help channel this into more interesting contests.

 

The one merit "find count" has, though, is that as a metric, it is pretty simple and easy to understand, while some of the other scoring schemes I've seen are neither of those things.

 

Perhaps is simple but it's also pretty meaningless.

 

I have been caching since 2007. You've been caching since 2003. We can't really compare your find count my find count when you've had a four year head start.

 

Then there is a matter of a variety of definitions of a find. Some won't claim a find unless they've physically signed a log book themselves. Some will claim finds on dozens of temporary caches at events (in some cases without actually finding those cacthes). Some think leapfrogging as a team (skipping every other cache on a PT but claiming finds on all because someone on "the team" found it). In one case, a group of caches placed hundreds of caches for a power trail and because each could not get "credit" for all of the hides, they all claimed finds on every hide. Some think it's perfectly acceptable to "armchair" caches.

 

Some cachers primarily cache solo while other do it as part of a team and everyone in the team will claim a find when one of them actually fins the cache.

 

Some cachers are single or retired and just have more opportunities to find caches that someone that works full time and has family obligations.

 

Probably the biggest factor, as I see it, that can produce a disparity in the number of finds (with all other things equal) is cache density. There are many cache that live in areas that are heavily saturated with cache and lots of new caches being placed every day. I have heard of numerous places where there there maybe a couple of thousand caches withing 10 miles of ones home location whereas there are a lot of places the may have a 200 hundred (or far less) caches within the same proximity. Having thousands of caches within close proximity in inevitably going to produce higher find count that then someone that only has hundreds (or tens) of caches.

 

I saw a few instances of people that had just joined the game, went out and did a certain power trail in Nevada and had more finds in a single day than I've done in four years.

 

As as "score" total finds count has too many factors to make it meaningful.

 

How many finds one has at a given time is not really the issue. The issue, as I see it, with LPCs and such is that (and this is just my opinion) is that those that place them are doing so primarily to provide more opportunities for cachers that are primarily motivated by the number of finds they can achieve. Location doesn't matter, nor does creativity. When cachers are primarily motivated by the numbers they're going to take short cuts because there is an incentive to spend as little time as possible actually finding the cache so one can go on to the next one. Of course, not everyone that likes to seen the total find count increase is going to take short cuts, but those that prefer out of the way or difficult finds don't have the incentive to spend as little time as possible searching for the cache, thus they would be unlikely to drive a vehicle in an environmentally sensitive area just so that they can save a few seconds getting to the cache quicker.

[knowschad]

Actually, I see the possibility of an even more significant problem, and that is with geocaches becoming so boring that nobody is interested in joining. I have already personally heard of two instances where an established geocacher brought some friends out that wanted to see what it was all about. The chosen locations were full of what some of us would call "lame" caches (the rest of you really do know what we mean) and these potential newbies were so turned off that they were not interested in continuing.

People have been predicting the demise of geocaching because of lame micro and lamppost hides for at least 8 years. Yet what happens? Geocaching continues to get more popular.

 

Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it isn't going to.

[+Snoogans]

Actually, I see the possibility of an even more significant problem, and that is with geocaches becoming so boring that nobody is interested in joining. I have already personally heard of two instances where an established geocacher brought some friends out that wanted to see what it was all about. The chosen locations were full of what some of us would call "lame" caches (the rest of you really do know what we mean) and these potential newbies were so turned off that they were not interested in continuing.

People have been predicting the demise of geocaching because of lame micro and lamppost hides for at least 8 years. Yet what happens? Geocaching continues to get more popular.

 

Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it isn't going to.

LOL. Just because you're paranoid, it doen't mean they're not out to get you.