Electricaching

[+The Rat]

To reduce my own carbon footprint and inspire a return to geocaching in a more environmentally friendly way I have started a blog about geocaching with an electric vehicle, specifically my Nissan Leaf. The range limitations and absence of a fast recharging infrastructure pose special challenges. You can read about my successes or failures at Electricaching. You are free to comment here, of course, but if you want to comment I would encourage you to do it on the blog site since the comments can be viewed by non-geocachers, too. I will respond only there to avoid answering the same questions twice, but I'm happy to answer questions about the Leaf there for the curious.

[+bflentje]

To reduce my own carbon footprint and inspire a return to geocaching in a more environmentally friendly way I have started a blog about geocaching with an electric vehicle, specifically my Nissan Leaf. The range limitations and absence of a fast recharging infrastructure pose special challenges. You can read about my successes or failures at Electricaching. You are free to comment here, of course, but if you want to comment I would encourage you to do it on the blog site since the comments can be viewed by non-geocachers, too. I will respond only there to avoid answering the same questions twice, but I'm happy to answer questions about the Leaf there for the curious.

 

[+GeoBain]

To heck with worrying about emissions. I am NOT giving up chili!

[+Roman!]

To heck with worrying about emissions. I am NOT giving up chili!

 

I was just thinking about electric vehicles yesterday and it got me thinking, just how much damage do we do to generate enough electricity to drive 100 miles and how does that compare to a regular car and a hybrid? Would be interesting to find out.

[Andronicus]

' timestamp='1315848899' post='4840502']

To heck with worrying about emissions. I am NOT giving up chili!

 

I was just thinking about electric vehicles yesterday and it got me thinking, just how much damage do we do to generate enough electricity to drive 100 miles and how does that compare to a regular car and a hybrid? Would be interesting to find out.

And how much damage does building (edit to add) and disposing of (end edit) an electrical car (including batteries) compaired to a regular car and a hybrid?

Edited September 12, 2011 by Andronicus

[+bflentje]

' timestamp='1315848899' post='4840502']

To heck with worrying about emissions. I am NOT giving up chili!

 

I was just thinking about electric vehicles yesterday and it got me thinking, just how much damage do we do to generate enough electricity to drive 100 miles and how does that compare to a regular car and a hybrid? Would be interesting to find out.

And how much damage does building (edit to add) and disposing of (end edit) an electrical car (including batteries) compaired to a regular car and a hybrid?

 

The infamous dust-to-dust report concludes that hybrids (not even mentioning electrics) leave more of a negative impact on the environment than most large SUVs. I know electric and hybrids make some of you FEEL good but the fact is, it's bogus. And besides, I couldn't haul my popup camper with a hybrid.

[+Team Pixos]

What is the carbon footprint of all these tupperwares?

[+mpilchfamily]

I've read stories that claim the production and disposal of the batteries does more to harm the environment then a convectional gas vehicle running as many miles as said electric vehicle.

 

Not only do you have to consider the carbon foot print of producing the power to charge the batteries but that of the manufacturing of the batteries. Refining the chemicals used takes allot of energy. The one thing i'm not seeing enough of is the use of Solar panels on these electric and hybrid cars. Nor do you see any micro wind turbines on the vehicle to help supplement the charge. Maybe some newer vehicles do but not many. Manufactures have used all sorts of other regenerative tricks to reclaim power but haven't used the obvious solutions.

 

Back on topic... i'll be making my own solar charger soon and purchasing a solar charging pack to help green up my caching. Sure it takes nearly a week for most solar charge packs to recharge there internal battery but every bit helps. I'll also be making my own Joule Thief as well.

 

For those who don't know a Joule Thief is able to take a battery your GPS or camera would consider dead and bust the output to run a bright LED flashlight. Though the one i'm building will allow me to use several dead batteries to charge a set of rechargeable AA batteries. It will probably be an all in one system with my solar panel.

[+BAMBOOZLE]

' timestamp='1315848899' post='4840502']

To heck with worrying about emissions. I am NOT giving up chili!

 

I was just thinking about electric vehicles yesterday and it got me thinking, just how much damage do we do to generate enough electricity to drive 100 miles and how does that compare to a regular car and a hybrid? Would be interesting to find out.

And how much damage does building (edit to add) and disposing of (end edit) an electrical car (including batteries) compaired to a regular car and a hybrid?

 

The infamous dust-to-dust report concludes that hybrids (not even mentioning electrics) leave more of a negative impact on the environment than most large SUVs. I know electric and hybrids make some of you FEEL good but the fact is, it's bogus. And besides, I couldn't haul my popup camper with a hybrid.

 

Also many " green " people own pets......a small dog has the carbon footprint of a SUV.

 

I like dogs and pick-up trucks

[+Chrysalides]

' timestamp='1315848899' post='4840502']I was just thinking about electric vehicles yesterday and it got me thinking, just how much damage do we do to generate enough electricity to drive 100 miles and how does that compare to a regular car and a hybrid? Would be interesting to find out.

Unless you can tell where your electricity comes from, impossible to compare.

 

Note, before I go on, let me state I'm not trying to make a case for whether an electric car makes financial sense and whether it will pay for itself.

 

Comparing cost for traveling 100 miles, the Leaf has a 24 kWH battery. According to PG&E's residential rates, this costs about $3 to recharge (assuming near 0% loss) for baseline usage at $0.12233 per kwH. There's different rates for electrical car usage, non peak use, and all that, let's ignore that for now.

 

My car (a sedan) burns about 13 gallons for 300 miles for the driving I do. That's about $16 in gas for 100 miles. Or over 5 times more. If a hybrid gets twice the mileage I do, they're still paying about 2.5 times more to travel the same distance.

 

Are electrical rates heavily subsidized? Are we being gouged by gas companies? Does $1 in energy from an electric power plant cleaner or dirtier than $1 in gas burned by a car? And if so, how much cleaner / dirtier? I don't have the answers. And I have no idea what are the ecological costs of manufacturing a car, whether it is conventional, hybrid, or otherwise. I merely provide the only figures I can verify, which concludes that, unless an electric power station is 5 times dirtier than my gasoline engine, I'll be doing less environmental damage driving an electric car.

 

And, of course, I'd be doing even less environment damage by not caching. But let's not be silly here.

Edited September 12, 2011 by Chrysalides

[+NYPaddleCacher]

' timestamp='1315848899' post='4840502']

To heck with worrying about emissions. I am NOT giving up chili!

 

I was just thinking about electric vehicles yesterday and it got me thinking, just how much damage do we do to generate enough electricity to drive 100 miles and how does that compare to a regular car and a hybrid? Would be interesting to find out.

And how much damage does building (edit to add) and disposing of (end edit) an electrical car (including batteries) compaired to a regular car and a hybrid?

 

The infamous dust-to-dust report concludes that hybrids (not even mentioning electrics) leave more of a negative impact on the environment than most large SUVs. I know electric and hybrids make some of you FEEL good but the fact is, it's bogus. And besides, I couldn't haul my popup camper with a hybrid.

 

We've had a honda civic hybrid since 2004. We didn't buy it to feel good, but 42 mpg (compared to the vehicle it replaces which got less that 20MPG) when gas prices are hovering around $3 a gallon does help.

[+Triplezed]

What is the carbon footprint of all these tupperwares?

 

LMAO...Good one!!

 

I say BURN OIL and let the grandkids figure it out. The little brats never want to listen to anything I say, anyway!

[+Chief301]

The range limitations and absence of a fast recharging infrastructure pose special challenges. You can read about my successes or failures at Electricaching

 

Reason enough to continue using my evil gas burner. I'm not keen on getting on the road in a vehicle where the likelihood of "failure" has to be factored in to every trip.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I read that the EPA indicated that the maximum range for a Nissan Leaf was about 78 miles. I would probably not be a good idea to attempt to do the ET trail in one.

 

I live an area that is very green. There's a dealership downtown that sells an electric car called a Weego. I've seen them on the lot and showroom for about two years but have yet to see one on the road.

 

I found a cache while staying at a hotel in Lexington, MA. There was a charging station for electric vehicles in the parking lot. One of the local stores has a few parking spaces designated for low emitting vehicles but I don't know of any public charging stations in town.

[AZcachemeister]

An electric car may certainly help REDUCE your carbon footprint. Not really GREEN if your power comes from a coal-fired power-plant, is it?

 

Hybrid vehicle are certainly more fuel-efficient. Still using fossil fuels, though...naughty-naughty!

 

The only truly GREEN vehicles are:

 

SOLAR Direct battery charge, or solar electricity used to produce Hydrogen.

 

ALCOHOL Not 20-40-70% gasohol, 100% alcohol. <HIC!>

 

DIESEL Fueled with Bio-diesel, this is the easiest way to go green. The original Diesel engine was designed to run on peanut oil. Then the petroleum companies stepped in with a 'readily available' petroleum-based substitute.

[+Chrysalides]

It would probably not be a good idea to attempt to do the ET trail in one.

I wouldn't recommend doing, say, GC15D in a Jeep either. Appropriate tools for the task and all that.

[+cmar22]

Hey & maybe if the current administrations keeps creating regulations that continue to kill jobs we can all live in one big green utopia..... There won't be any power to run those electric cars but hey we can make them into art & support the humanities....

[+TK7464]

When I go to a certin supermarket I can see reserved spots up close for handicaped, Pregnant women and families with small kids so they don't run into the parking lot but when I see a hybred parking only spot reserved next to the front door thats where I park my SUV just to get a rise out of the folks and they can't do anything about it because they don't own the land. BTW if someone reduces their carbon footprint I know that just gives me more to use up to equal it out.

[+bflentje]

Also many " green " people own pets......a small dog has the carbon footprint of a SUV.

 

I like dogs and pick-up trucks

 

Love dogs and SUVs myself but I must have missed the report on small dogs and carbon footprints. Are you suggesting that my mini Schnauzer is more of an environmental burden than my Chevy Tahoe? Interesting.

Edited September 13, 2011 by bflentje

[knowschad]

To reduce my own carbon footprint and inspire a return to geocaching in a more environmentally friendly way I have started a blog about geocaching with an electric vehicle, specifically my Nissan Leaf. The range limitations and absence of a fast recharging infrastructure pose special challenges. You can read about my successes or failures at Electricaching. You are free to comment here, of course, but if you want to comment I would encourage you to do it on the blog site since the comments can be viewed by non-geocachers, too. I will respond only there to avoid answering the same questions twice, but I'm happy to answer questions about the Leaf there for the curious.

 

What is the carbon footprint of your blog, by the way?

[+Team GPSaxophone]

The only truly GREEN vehicles are:

 

SOLAR Direct battery charge, or solar electricity used to produce Hydrogen.

Anyone saying solar is green has never looked at the semiconductor manufacturing process.

[+Doctroid]

The infamous dust-to-dust report concludes that hybrids (not even mentioning electrics) leave more of a negative impact on the environment than most large SUVs. I know electric and hybrids make some of you FEEL good but the fact is, it's bogus. And besides, I couldn't haul my popup camper with a hybrid.

 

The infamous dust-to-dust report is what's bogus. It's been very thoroughly debunked.

[+Doctroid]

Also many " green " people own pets......a small dog has the carbon footprint of a SUV.

 

Source?

[+Doctroid]

An electric car may certainly help REDUCE your carbon footprint. Not really GREEN if your power comes from a coal-fired power-plant, is it?

 

Hybrid vehicle are certainly more fuel-efficient. Still using fossil fuels, though...naughty-naughty!

 

The only truly GREEN vehicles are:

 

SOLAR Direct battery charge, or solar electricity used to produce Hydrogen.

 

ALCOHOL Not 20-40-70% gasohol, 100% alcohol. <HIC!>

 

DIESEL Fueled with Bio-diesel, this is the easiest way to go green. The original Diesel engine was designed to run on peanut oil. Then the petroleum companies stepped in with a 'readily available' petroleum-based substitute.

 

As someone else said, production of solar cells is not the most environmentally benign thing you can do.

 

Neither is growing, harvesting, and processing peanuts on the scale required to produce significant amounts of biodiesel. (How many gallons of petroleum-based fuels were burned to produce that gallon of peanut oil?)

 

"Green" is not an absolute, yes/no, is/isn't. Some technologies are greener than others — and sometimes the comparison isn't clear.

Edited September 13, 2011 by Doctroid

[+GeoBain]

The only truly GREEN vehicles are:

 

I'd call this one truly GREEN!

 

[knowschad]

The infamous dust-to-dust report concludes that hybrids (not even mentioning electrics) leave more of a negative impact on the environment than most large SUVs. I know electric and hybrids make some of you FEEL good but the fact is, it's bogus. And besides, I couldn't haul my popup camper with a hybrid.

 

The infamous dust-to-dust report is what's bogus. It's been very thoroughly debunked.

 

Source?

[BoredRoom]

The infamous dust-to-dust report concludes that hybrids (not even mentioning electrics) leave more of a negative impact on the environment than most large SUVs. I know electric and hybrids make some of you FEEL good but the fact is, it's bogus. And besides, I couldn't haul my popup camper with a hybrid.

 

The infamous dust-to-dust report is what's bogus. It's been very thoroughly debunked.

 

Source?

 

"Hummer versus Prius: 'Dust to Dust' Report Misleads the Media and Public with Bad Science" (PDF) by Dr. Peter H. Gleick of the Pacific Institute

 

I still think global warming/climate change is a marketing tool.

[+A & J Tooling]

Bio-fuel will ruin us all. Most of the animals you eat, eat corn. Corn is now worth $1,000 an acre. Soybeans $600 (because everyone is growing corn). A yearling cow will fetch $800 at auction That used to be the price for a full grown cow). So, now people are cutting down their woodlots and burning the trees in massive piles to create more land to plant corn. All because of 'green' energy.

 

Buy beef lately?

[+Dgwphotos]

This thread is rapidly going off topic.

 

How is going caching in an electric car any different than doing it in a regular car, so far as caching is concerned???

[+uxorious]

This thread is rapidly going off topic.

 

How is going caching in an electric car any different than doing it in a regular car, so far as caching is concerned???

 

+1

[+Chrysalides]

How is going caching in an electric car any different than doing it in a regular car, so far as caching is concerned???

Which is exactly what The Rat's blog proposes to explore. Quick answer : caches a certain distance away requires more planning. And you're effectively limited to a radius of 50 miles.

[AZcachemeister]

The only truly GREEN vehicles are:

 

SOLAR Direct battery charge, or solar electricity used to produce Hydrogen.

Anyone saying solar is green has never looked at the semiconductor manufacturing process.

 

Probably true, but I was thinking of modes of transportation that don't increase the greenhouse gasses.

I am absolutely certain there are nasty things involved with the production of ANY electronic device, not to mention the disposal of them (especially batteries) when they wear out.

[knowschad]

The infamous dust-to-dust report concludes that hybrids (not even mentioning electrics) leave more of a negative impact on the environment than most large SUVs. I know electric and hybrids make some of you FEEL good but the fact is, it's bogus. And besides, I couldn't haul my popup camper with a hybrid.

 

The infamous dust-to-dust report is what's bogus. It's been very thoroughly debunked.

 

Source?

 

"Hummer versus Prius: 'Dust to Dust' Report Misleads the Media and Public with Bad Science" (PDF) by Dr. Peter H. Gleick of the Pacific Institute

 

I still think global warming/climate change is a marketing tool.

 

Thanks for the link. Actually, it has not been "thoroughly debunked". Even the Pacific Institute report states that their conclusions may be correct. But what tit does does do is to poke the "Dust to Dust" report full of holes. Thanks for the link... I think the PI site will be a very interesting read in other areas as well.

 

Global warming/climate change may very well be used as a marketing tool, but that doesn't necessarily make it false.

[AZcachemeister]

 

As someone else said, production of solar cells is not the most environmentally benign thing you can do.

 

Neither is growing, harvesting, and processing peanuts on the scale required to produce significant amounts of biodiesel. (How many gallons of petroleum-based fuels were burned to produce that gallon of peanut oil?)

 

"Green" is not an absolute, yes/no, is/isn't. Some technologies are greener than others — and sometimes the comparison isn't clear.

 

Who says the peanuts (soybeans, canola, sunflowers, olives) can't be farmed with machinery powered by Biodiesel?

 

Not to mention that my favorite flavor of Biodiesel is made from the fryer oil that cooked your fries from Mickey-D's.

 

I don't know if solar and biofuels are the answer, but it is certain we are going to run out of fossil fuels eventually, so we had better figure something out sooner than later.

 

Whether or not greenhouse gasses are really as big a problem as some might have us believe is another debatable issue. Certainly climate change has been around about as long as there has been a climate, and I'm fairly certain this old earth (and the life on it) will be able to absorb all the damage the human species can produce. The question is whether we will be around to see the results.

 

Back on topic.

My bicycle can go much farther than 65 miles on one charge, and I'll bet it's carbon footprint is infinitesimally smaller.

[+The Jester]

An electric car may certainly help REDUCE your carbon footprint. Not really GREEN if your power comes from a coal-fired power-plant, is it?

 

Hybrid vehicle are certainly more fuel-efficient. Still using fossil fuels, though...naughty-naughty!

 

The only truly GREEN vehicles are:

 

SOLAR Direct battery charge, or solar electricity used to produce Hydrogen.

 

ALCOHOL Not 20-40-70% gasohol, 100% alcohol. <HIC!>

 

DIESEL Fueled with Bio-diesel, this is the easiest way to go green. The original Diesel engine was designed to run on peanut oil. Then the petroleum companies stepped in with a 'readily available' petroleum-based substitute.

You missed the HPV's - Human Powered Vehicles, such as bicycles. Very green (except for those bean eaters... ).

[knowschad]

I hate the term, "GREEN".

[AZcachemeister]

I hate the term, "GREEN".

 

...which earns you a really nasty glare from Kermit.

 

It's just another buzzword.

I'll bet you actually meant to say you hate buzzwords.

[knowschad]

I hate the term, "GREEN".

 

...which earns you a really nasty glare from Kermit.

 

It's just another buzzword.

I'll bet you actually meant to say you hate buzzwords.

 

Oh, no. Why would I hate words that facilitate such scalable, user-centric and task-oriented solutions as buzzwords? Do you believe that my core competency doesn't pass the smoke test?

[+GeoBain]

This thread is rapidly going off topic.

 

How is going caching in an electric car any different than doing it in a regular car, so far as caching is concerned???

 

Is it really possible to take this off topic? It was basically an advertisement for an off-site blog. The OP made it clear he was abandoning the thread in favor of discussing the issue on his blog. If anything, it should have been locked in the beginning. But I like hearing other opinions on the Green/Carbon Footprint issue.

 

I'm one of those that believes that whatever gains we make by using electric vehicles is countered by the production of the electricity and the harsh chemicals used to produce the batteries needed to run them.

 

But boy is it spooky when one of these things sneaks up on you. They are whisper quiet. Gotta be a positive there in regards to stealth.

[+Dgwphotos]

But boy is it spooky when one of these things sneaks up on you. They are whisper quiet. Gotta be a positive there in regards to stealth.

I have a friend who owns a Prius, and I call it The Stealth Car, because when it drives into our neighborhood, it's really quiet, it's dark gray like a stealth airplane, and it has a strange shape (for a car), just like a stealth aircraft.

[+BAMBOOZLE]

Also many " green " people own pets......a small dog has the carbon footprint of a SUV.

 

I like dogs and pick-up trucks

 

Love dogs and SUVs myself but I must have missed the report on small dogs and carbon footprints. Are you suggesting that my mini Schnauzer is more of an environmental burden than my Chevy Tahoe? Interesting.

 

Check this out

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/pet-dogs-damaging-environment-suvs/story?id=9402234

 

One article had a hampster = refrigerator.

 

I've owned pets all my life but currently have none. If I had a neighbor with a tiny electric car and a couple of cats or dogs they would blow me and my pickup and 4-runner away carbon wise.

[+BAMBOOZLE]

The infamous dust-to-dust report concludes that hybrids (not even mentioning electrics) leave more of a negative impact on the environment than most large SUVs. I know electric and hybrids make some of you FEEL good but the fact is, it's bogus. And besides, I couldn't haul my popup camper with a hybrid.

 

The infamous dust-to-dust report is what's bogus. It's been very thoroughly debunked.

 

Source?

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/pet-dogs-damaging-environment-suvs/story?id=9402234

 

Hey, the dog in that picture=2 Hummers

[+bflentje]

Also many " green " people own pets......a small dog has the carbon footprint of a SUV.

 

I like dogs and pick-up trucks

 

Love dogs and SUVs myself but I must have missed the report on small dogs and carbon footprints. Are you suggesting that my mini Schnauzer is more of an environmental burden than my Chevy Tahoe? Interesting.

 

Check this out

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/pet-dogs-damaging-environment-suvs/story?id=9402234

 

One article had a hampster = refrigerator.

 

I've owned pets all my life but currently have none. If I had a neighbor with a tiny electric car and a couple of cats or dogs they would blow me and my pickup and 4-runner away carbon wise.

 

Maybe if we killed off all life on earth the environmentalist nutbags would be happy.

[+bflentje]

Also many " green " people own pets......a small dog has the carbon footprint of a SUV.

 

I like dogs and pick-up trucks

 

Love dogs and SUVs myself but I must have missed the report on small dogs and carbon footprints. Are you suggesting that my mini Schnauzer is more of an environmental burden than my Chevy Tahoe? Interesting.

 

Check this out

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/pet-dogs-damaging-environment-suvs/story?id=9402234

 

One article had a hampster = refrigerator.

 

I've owned pets all my life but currently have none. If I had a neighbor with a tiny electric car and a couple of cats or dogs they would blow me and my pickup and 4-runner away carbon wise.

 

I just read the article. My conclusion is that all those worried about the carbon footprint of cats and dogs should practice what they preach and just remove themselves from the planet first. Lead by example..

Edited September 15, 2011 by bflentje

[+FolsomNatural]

I've been thinking about that a lot.

 

I am toying with the idea of either an electric scooter, like the eZip 1000

or a bicycle conversion kit that would run off a lithium battery.

[+mpilchfamily]

All this green tech comes down to one thing... how much money can you save by using it? Its not about saving the environment or reducing your carbon foot print. Not when we're trading one form of pollution for another that may or may not be worst. Especially when the so called carbon foot print numbers don't account for much of the costs in manufacturing and obtaining the raw materials in the first place.

 

So like many of you i'm on board as long as it keeps cutting my costs. If i can suck a little energy from the sun to help top off some batteries to keep me caching then great.

[+GeoBain]

Also many " green " people own pets......a small dog has the carbon footprint of a SUV.

 

I like dogs and pick-up trucks

 

Love dogs and SUVs myself but I must have missed the report on small dogs and carbon footprints. Are you suggesting that my mini Schnauzer is more of an environmental burden than my Chevy Tahoe? Interesting.

 

Check this out

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/pet-dogs-damaging-environment-suvs/story?id=9402234

 

One article had a hampster = refrigerator.

 

I've owned pets all my life but currently have none. If I had a neighbor with a tiny electric car and a couple of cats or dogs they would blow me and my pickup and 4-runner away carbon wise.

 

Maybe if we killed off all life on earth the environmentalist nutbags would be happy.

Can we start with geocaching, forum lounging dogs first?

[knowschad]

Also many " green " people own pets......a small dog has the carbon footprint of a SUV.

 

I like dogs and pick-up trucks

 

Love dogs and SUVs myself but I must have missed the report on small dogs and carbon footprints. Are you suggesting that my mini Schnauzer is more of an environmental burden than my Chevy Tahoe? Interesting.

 

Check this out

 

http://abcnews.go.co...tory?id=9402234

 

One article had a hampster = refrigerator.

 

I've owned pets all my life but currently have none. If I had a neighbor with a tiny electric car and a couple of cats or dogs they would blow me and my pickup and 4-runner away carbon wise.

 

Maybe if we killed off all life on earth the environmentalist nutbags would be happy.

Can we start with geocaching, forum lounging dogs first?

Hey... I'm watching you!!!

[+dakboy]

Bio-fuel will ruin us all. Most of the animals you eat, eat corn. Corn is now worth $1,000 an acre. Soybeans $600 (because everyone is growing corn). A yearling cow will fetch $800 at auction That used to be the price for a full grown cow). So, now people are cutting down their woodlots and burning the trees in massive piles to create more land to plant corn. All because of 'green' energy.

Then don't make bio-fuel out of corn. Corn is one of the worst possible sources for bio-fuel, actually. It takes as much energy to turn corn into Ethanol as you get out of the material. Corn-based Ethanol only gained traction in the US because you can grown corn anywhere in the country, and the corn lobby pumped a lot of money into Congress.

 

Brazil, OTOH, has been making Ethanol out of Sugar Cane for years. Sugar Cane nets you 6-8 units of energy for each unit consumed in producing it.

 

Then there's the biodiesel being produced by algae in the middle of the mostly empty desert.

 

If you don't want to support corn-fed farming, buy grass-fed beef & free-range eggs.

Edited September 16, 2011 by dakboy

[+The Rat]

There are too many issues brought up to reply to them all, but some basic points:

1. Electricity in California is produced using virtually no coal (<1% according to sources I trust). I believe the biggest source is natural gas followed by hydroelectric, wind, and solar.

2. My Leaf is charged almost entirely at night during off-peak hours when hydroelectric and wind make up a larger % of the power source since they have to run constantly, while the gas is turned way down to just the minimum needed to keep the voltage up. Basically, almost no extra gas or other fossil fuel is burned to charge it.

3. The argument that electric cars simply shift the emissions to the power plant and do not ultimately reduce harmful emissions compared to internal combustion engines (ICE) has been thoroughly debunked by the scientific community, although people will choose to believe what they want to believe on this issue, I'm sure. ICE cars have a much bigger carbon footprint.

4. Just as important to me, or perhaps more so, is the national security and balance of payments aspect. Even if the carbon footprint was the same, I'd rather send my dollars to American natural gas producers and hydro dams in California than to Iran, Venezuela, and BP. I bought a Leaf in part to buy American ... fuel.

5. For most people an EV probably won't save you money. I wouldn't have bought it for a ridiculous amount. With government incentives it was in the mid $20K range, less than the original price of the car I traded in (a 1998 ICE car). It has cost me about $20/month in increased electricity. I expect to have almost no service costs, either.

6. I'm not telling anyone to buy or cache an EV. It really is only suitable for a particular demographic subset. We don't have range problems because we have an ICE car for longer trips. If you have a long commute or need to tow a boat or trailer, etc., it's not for you, at least not as your only vehicle. I do hope my blog disabuses people of some of the misinformation put out about EV's, or even possibly justified negative views based on EV's of years past. I'm also hoping it makes you think about the environment when caching. For example, for longer trips you can carpool instead of all meeting at the endpoint; it's more fun with a group talking in the car anyway, in my experience.