+Hockeyhick Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I enjoy the fact that we can use the challenge idea to create those virtual caches that were SO abused in the past. As has already been proven, you just can't please everyone, and anus apartus abound. However, that won't stop me from sharing those cool cache-less sites to visitors in my home-town! Quote Link to comment
+Sol seaker Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I've only done one so far and it was a lot of fun. I'm so glad that Groundspeak is doing something to bring back something similar to virtuals. There were a lot of problems with virtuals and they are trying something new to bring back virtuals without the problems of virtuals. I'm glad to see us be able to place caches in places that containers can't be placed. The National Parks here are incredible places with a lot of great places to bring people where it would not be wise to put a container. It will be good to have a way to bring new visitors to these parks to special places. The idea is still new and has some bugs to work out, but what new idea doesn't?? It's good we can give Groundspeak our input on tweaking and perfecting this idea. I am excited about the potential of making the old-style challenge caches more official. Bryan and Jeremy said (at the Block Party) that they had plans to incorporate the old-style challenges with the new ones once they get worked out. I'm currently working on an old-style challenge of finding a cache on each of 23 islands in the area. It would be great to have those sorts of challenges be official and not hanging on the edge of the old ALR problem (additional logging requirements). I think it is great to be able to place container-less caches once again. Quote Link to comment
+Cache Sleuth Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I couldn't agree more. Up until now, all the bandwidth on the forums, blogs, etc. has been mostly hogged by the anti crowd (i.e., "I hate them", "I don't want the finds to count against my total", and so on). Most of the problems that I see so far are people seeing Groundspeak's worldwide challenges (which are about the equivalent of the old Locationless caches), then concluding - WITHOUT READING THE LISTING GUIDELINES - that all challenges are supposed to work the same way. If challenges are created to take you to a specific location and perform a specific task in order to log and get credit for it, then it is very similar to the old Virtuals. There are a few tweaks that need to be made, i.e. require coordinates so the challenge has to be found with a GPS unit, allow the challenge to have a known owner that is responsible for it, permit the editing or deletion of logs, allow a finder to delete an accepted challenge from their list if they decide later they don't want to do it, etc. The challenges I have read and the few I have completed so far have been kind of silly, but that is mostly because they were designed to have the participant to perform a task, but without going to a fixed location. I think the challenges will be fine after a few changes are made by GS and creators of challenges start following the guidelines. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I think they have potential once people are educated and stop submitting challenges that are not tied to a location. It seems 90 percent of the naysayers do not realize that challenges are supposed to be location based (the exception being worldwide challenges). The criticisms I keep seeing ad nauseum are "couch potato", "they don't take you anywhere", "can log them from my living room", etc. This is not the case. They are certainly a suitable replacement for virtuals because just like virtuals they are supposed to take you somewhere that you see or do something. Now if people would only use them that way. For those who want to see challenges succeed, submit your own location based challenges to show the way. And be sure to flag anyone that is not location based as inappropriate. Quote Link to comment
+Max and 99 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 We completed one challenge and thought it was really fun. I submitted one challenge that I really enjoy seeing photos for. But what really really makes me mad is people from thousands of miles away getting to log a complete on "my" specific-location challenge without ever leaving their home. That's just wrong. It makes me mad that I have zero control over those bogus logs that I would delete in a second if I could. Quote Link to comment
+FolsomNatural Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 OK, I've been living in a cave for 3 months now . . . What is a Challenge? How does it work. Is there a page that explains it? Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 OK, I've been living in a cave for 3 months now . . . What is a Challenge? How does it work. Is there a page that explains it? Actually it's more like 3 days. Challenges were introduced at the end of last week. See here for more info Quote Link to comment
+kunarion Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 For those who want to see challenges succeed, submit your own location based challenges to show the way. And be sure to flag anyone that is not location based as inappropriate. For this system to work, a majority of all cachers would have to view and vote on every Challenge. Seriously. And it doesn't really matter if people like the idea of Challenges. People liked Virtuals, too, and at one time, they appeared to be a great idea. I just keep getting the feeling that by the time I give it all a chance to shake out, and start finding things I really like about Challenges, they'll be removed. Which would be a shame, since one really great use for Challenges is making a kind of "virtual" cache where a physical one had to be archived due to constant muggling. Since a "place" can't be swiped. Quote Link to comment
cezanne Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) I think they have potential once people are educated and stop submitting challenges that are not tied to a location. I think that this is necessary, but not sufficient to reach the goal you have in mind. It seems 90 percent of the naysayers do not realize that challenges are supposed to be location based (the exception being worldwide challenges). The criticisms I keep seeing ad nauseum are "couch potato", "they don't take you anywhere", "can log them from my living room", etc. This is not the case. Many of the location specific ones can be logged from the living room. There are local cachers who have already completed 40 and more challenges and have not travelled since the challenges showed up. Challenges like providing a photograph of Saint Stephen's cathedral or the Ferris Wheel in Vienna or similar famous sights is quite easy to do from home. Even when the additional requirement is posed that one has to shown on the photo, many cachers have such photos at their disposition. Moreover, for most action challenges there is no proof whatsoever. It also seems to become popular to come along with revivals of webcams that have existed as webcam caches. They are certainly a suitable replacement for virtuals because just like virtuals they are supposed to take you somewhere that you see or do something. Now if people would only use them that way. I only agree partially (to the extent that certainly challenges would profit a lot if people would stop to use them in the wrong manner). I am not agreeing on the potential of challenges to replace virtuals. I preferred the virtuals where one needed to look around and answer questions (as it is the case also for Earthcaches), and not to provide photos or performing handstands, phooning etc. I like the learning aspect and do hate taking photos. Maybe things will be better than questions and verification answers are added as an option for challenges. The comparatively short area for the challenge text will however provide quite some restrictions and will not allow for EC-like submissions. The new challenge program is mainly directed to cachers using mobile applications and not using dedicated GPSr units and paper printouts (that's my preferred way to go). Cezanne Edited August 22, 2011 by cezanne Quote Link to comment
Tahosa and Sons Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I can deal with these challenges, but what I can't seem to understand is why can only Premium Members create them. And what do they have to do with our total finds, I did not find a challenge but completed one, so why count them. Just let them be there for something else to do. When this open to the rest of us then I have a action challenge that will be specific as to its location and requirements, and I doubt most cachers could do it in one day. Maybe that should be the challenge complete the following virtuals in one day. 1. UTM 2. Homestead Meadows Quote Link to comment
GOF and Bacall Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I have been having fun with them. I think they could be a great addition. But I think they were released before they were ready. I hope they get the bugs worked out. Quote Link to comment
+St.Matthew Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Once they become better regulated and refined, I suspect they will be wonderful. Quote Link to comment
+TheAlabamaRambler Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) I can deal with these challenges, but what I can't seem to understand is why can only Premium Members create them. And what do they have to do with our total finds, I did not find a challenge but completed one, so why count them. Just let them be there for something else to do. When this open to the rest of us then I have a action challenge that will be specific as to its location and requirements, and I doubt most cachers could do it in one day. Maybe that should be the challenge complete the following virtuals in one day. 1. UTM 2. Homestead Meadows Groundspeak gives away its basic product so that anyone can play for free. They sell additional benefits in a package called a 'Premium Membership' for those of us who want more features. But you knew that! Creating Challenges is a Premium benefit at the moment, though I think I read somewhere that they would be opened to all members once the major development is done. What do they have to do with total finds? The same thing as Events, Earthcaches and other 'finds' I suppose. You didn't find events, you attended them. If you really disagree with these counting why not delete all the things like this which you have listed as finds? I guess it just surprised me coming from someone with your experience and role in these things. Maybe I don't understand what your saying. But I can't see how someone who has been in the game since almost the beginning, found 51 Virts, 59 Events, 18 Locationless, 2 Earthcaches...all very similar to Challenges, and completed 11 Challenges, believes that those other things should count but Challenges shouldn't. What am I missing? Edited August 22, 2011 by TheAlabamaRambler Quote Link to comment
+Michaelcycle Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) I can deal with these challenges, but what I can't seem to understand is why can only Premium Members create them. And what do they have to do with our total finds, I did not find a challenge but completed one, so why count them. Just let them be there for something else to do. When this open to the rest of us then I have a action challenge that will be specific as to its location and requirements, and I doubt most cachers could do it in one day. Maybe that should be the challenge complete the following virtuals in one day. 1. UTM 2. Homestead Meadows Groundspeak gives away its basic product so that anyone can play for free. They sell additional benefits in a package called a 'Premium Membership' for those of us who want more features. But you knew that! Creating Challenges is a Premium benefit at the moment, though I think I read somewhere that they would be opened to all members once the major development is done. What do they have to do with total finds? The same thing as Events, Earthcaches and other 'finds' I suppose. You didn't find events, you attended them. If you really disagree with these counting why not delete all the things like this which you have listed as finds? I guess it just surprised me coming from someone with your experience and role in these things. Maybe I don't understand what your saying. But I can't see how someone who has been in the game since almost the beginning, found 51 Virts, 59 Events, 18 Locationless, 2 Earthcaches...all very similar to Challenges, and completed 11 Challenges, believes that those other things should count but Challenges shouldn't. What am I missing? You are missing a "CO" that could remove your "find" if s/he thought it was bogus. And I never attended an event that didn't have a log sheet/book (and listed coordinates to "find" the location.) Virtuals and earthcaches require verification (at least, they are supposed to. Let's stick to the way things are supposed to work for this discussion) I can't speak to locationless, before my time. Edited August 22, 2011 by Michaelcycle Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) Many of the location specific ones can be logged from the living room.There are local cachers who have already completed 40 and more challenges and have not travelled since the challenges showed up. Challenges like providing a photograph of Saint Stephen's cathedral or the Ferris Wheel in Vienna or similar famous sights is quite easy to do from home. Even when the additional requirement is posed that one has to shown on the photo, many cachers have such photos at their disposition. The same can be said for virtuals. How many armchair "Greetings from Germany" type logs have we seen on virtuals over the years where the loggers googled the verification info but never left their living room? Back in the days of locationless caches, a number of people were caught photoshopping their GPS into pictures to "verify" their locationless finds. Heck even real caches get bogus logs all the time. There are always going to be dishonest people who game the system. It doesn't mean you should toss out the system. Edited August 22, 2011 by briansnat Quote Link to comment
+MustangJoni Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 When I started caching six years ago, I didn't take up this hobby to find boxes in the woods (or bison tubes in cedar trees!) I started caching so it could take me to cool new places. Places I wouldn't have known about without a cache to lead me there. There are so many of these places that just won't support a container. National parks are just one example. To me, caching isn't about the container, it is about the location. I'm so happy that I can finally show off some neat locations that I've been unable to hide a container at. I am also looking forward to looking up challenges to find new places and new experiences! Thank you Groundspeak! Quote Link to comment
+Manville Possum Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Once they become better regulated and refined, I suspect they will be wonderful. I can tell that they are "Working on it". Some good suggestions are being voted on in the feedback forum. We are having fun with the challanges, my kids love them. We are just showing off some of the highlights of oue neighboorhood now, a few of the locations also happen to be listed EarthCaches. Quote Link to comment
+Keith Watson Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 What do they have to do with total finds? The same thing as Events, Earthcaches and other 'finds' I suppose. You didn't find events, you attended them. I never thought of that, good point. I am having fun creating challenges. Giving people some fun and interesting places to visit. Quote Link to comment
+NYPaddleCacher Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I started geocaching in 2007. A short time later I submitted my first cache and it was published. About that time I also discovered virtual caches and thought of a few cool places to create a virtual caches but I could not because that cache type was no longer allowed. If I found some place really interesting, but could not place a cache there due to proximity or permission issues, the best I could do was create it as part of a multi cache or an unknown type (both types of caches that a lot of people systematically ignore). Now I can. There are lots of complains about Challenges caches because on the first day there were many silly and what many considered to be lame challenges. There are also lots of physical geocaches of a certain style or location which many feel are lame as well. The existence of those caches does not prevent someone from creating a cache with a unique hide style that offers a spectacular view or one of the many other redeeming qualities a cache might have that will garner lots of favorite votes. For those that have done Virtual caches, think of the best you ever "found". Maybe it was at a national landmark. Maybe it was something really unusual like the worlds largest pancake griddle (located about 30 miles from me). If you wanted to create a similar experience early last week you couldn't. Now you can. Quote Link to comment
+TheLoneGrangers Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I've created two challenges, that I think they are great, although one has almost as many thumbs down as thumbs up, can anyone give me feedback on why this would be thumbed down? Quote Link to comment
cezanne Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Many of the location specific ones can be logged from the living room.There are local cachers who have already completed 40 and more challenges and have not travelled since the challenges showed up. Challenges like providing a photograph of Saint Stephen's cathedral or the Ferris Wheel in Vienna or similar famous sights is quite easy to do from home. Even when the additional requirement is posed that one has to shown on the photo, many cachers have such photos at their disposition. The same can be said for virtuals. How many armchair "Greetings from Germany" type logs have we seen on virtuals over the years where the loggers googled the verification info but never left their living room? Those are not the virtuals I like and I can assure you that in all the years I did not receive a single armchair log for my own virtual. Moreover, the owner of a virtual cache has both control over the logs and over the cache description. For example, if the questions turn out to be too easy or new information is added to the internet, one can change the cache description. That's not the case with challenges. Back in the days of locationless caches, a number of people were caught photoshopping their GPS into pictures to "verify" their locationless finds. I know those stories. Actually, I never liked locationless caches and did not do a single one, but for other reasons. Most locationless caches at least asked for photos showing a GPS. So those photoshopping their GPSr into the picture were somehow playing a trick while if a challenge just asks for a picture of a sight, then the cachers doing armchair logs are not doing anything wrong and do not break any codex for challenges at all - they are providing what they are asked for. That's similar to the armchair logs for the German and Dutch armchair virtuals which were just puzzles in disguise and where nothing could be visited. Those caches mainly caused the later wave of Greetings from .... logs for US virtuals that never have been intended to be logged that way. Most of those cachers have never seen real virtuals and learnt from bad examples. Something similar can easily happen for challenges and it will be very difficult to reeducate the people. Heck even real caches get bogus logs all the time. There are always going to be dishonest people who game the system. It doesn't mean you should toss out the system. I agree (even though I have not received bogus logs for my caches), but if a challenge asks for a photograph of a sight, there is no dishonesty involved in many cases. It is the same as for the Kiss a frog challenge. Those logs I have seen all provided valid photos, still the people did not have to leave their home. There are definitely cachers who log physical caches without having been there and many of those cases are never detected. Still the majority of cachers does know that signing the log book is a requirement for physical caches. I am worried about that for challenges many cachers get a wrong impression at all what they are supposed to do for doing it in the right way. Cezanne Quote Link to comment
+The Blorenges Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I've created two challenges, that I think they are great, although one has almost as many thumbs down as thumbs up, can anyone give me feedback on why this would be thumbed down? We can't search for the Challenges you've created and we don't know what they are. If you can provide a link maybe people will give their opinions. MrsB Quote Link to comment
+TheAlabamaRambler Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) I've created two challenges, that I think they are great, although one has almost as many thumbs down as thumbs up, can anyone give me feedback on why this would be thumbed down? Did you mention them in the forums? That appears to draw down-voters like flies. Doesn't matter if it's a good Challenge or not. Hopefully they'll get tired of that. Or it could be that folks just don't like your challenge! Always a good idea to look at it closely and see what folks might not like about it. This is why I think down-votes are good ONLY if they require a comment to explain what the down-voter did not like about the Challenge. Edited August 22, 2011 by TheAlabamaRambler Quote Link to comment
+The Blorenges Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I saw a Photographic Challenge recently that had several thumbs down votes... but only because it had been created as a "Worldwide Challenge". Although it had been given the location (a park in a nearby town) the requirement said something like, "Add a picture of yourself planking at any famous landmark..." If it had said, "Add a picture of yourself planking on this park bench..." it would've been acceptable. (Not saying I would've done it though!) MrsB Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 It is the same as for the Kiss a frog challenge. Those logs I have seen all provided valid photos, still the people did not have to leave their home. I think Kiss a Frog was a big mistake. I'm sure the people who though it up felt it was a whimsical, fun way to get things started, not realizing the horrible example that the challenge was setting. For most people who initially checked out challenges it was the only challenge they saw I understand their dismay. Then hundreds of people saw that example and submitted similar non location based challenges thinking that was what it was all about. And things went downhill from there. There are people still complaining that challenges don't take you anywhere and that is simply not the case. You might have noticed that Kiss a Frog has been deleted, as have all of the non location based challenges that have been identified. Quote Link to comment
+TheLoneGrangers Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I've created two challenges, that I think they are great, although one has almost as many thumbs down as thumbs up, can anyone give me feedback on why this would be thumbed down? We can't search for the Challenges you've created and we don't know what they are. If you can provide a link maybe people will give their opinions. MrsB MrsB....i think thealabamarambler answered my question, as I created a thread to Show your quality challenges, and mine is the first one. lol...you can find both of mine in that thread....I was thinking cache, not challenge when I posted this, and I find myself spelling out cache for challenge as well alot Quote Link to comment
+terrkan78 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) I've created two challenges, that I think they are great, although one has almost as many thumbs down as thumbs up, can anyone give me feedback on why this would be thumbed down? It's hard to say without actually looking at the challenge in question. The two challenges in my town that are being thumbed down are (1) Go to X hardware store and take a pix (I think it's the commercial aspect that's getting this one voted down) and (2) Attend a "gathering" (I think the creator meant a geocaching event - I think it may be getting voted down because it's not exactly location specific - a "gathering" could be just about anything - and you could log the same event twice by logging both the challenge and the event attendance). Edit - oops, I see you already beat me Edited August 22, 2011 by terrkan78 Quote Link to comment
+TheLoneGrangers Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Mine involves hiking a 3 mile portion of the Palmetto Trail, and find the 6 geocaches along the trail, it is not as easy as it sounds, some of the caches are tough hides, I couldn't even take credit for this challenge as I have only found 4 of the 6 lol. I don't think its a bad challenge Quote Link to comment
cezanne Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) This is why I think down-votes are good ONLY if they require a comment to explain what the down-voter did not like about the Challenge. I think that some challenge creators might want to know the reason while others either do not want to know the reason or know it anyway. Take e.g. this challenge http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/view.aspx?cx=CX7DE You have to go to the uppermost Ikea park deck in Hamburg and take a photograph of yourself eating three hot dogs at the same time. On of the logs for that challenge states that a friend of the logger from the US told the story that Groundspeak has come around with the challenges to test how silly geocachers are. Another one of that type http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/view.aspx?cx=CX859 Yet another one http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/view.aspx?cx=CXA2C Visit the central train station in Innsbruck at 3:30 a.m. http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/view.aspx?cx=CXFA9 Disturbing other people by shouting around http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/view.aspx?cx=CXFA9 There are way too many challenges at the moment which are intended to make fun about cachers doing them or making fun about Groundspeak. Challenges have some interesting potential, but not in the way many challenges are right now. Cezanne Edited August 22, 2011 by cezanne Quote Link to comment
+TheAlabamaRambler Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 This is why I think down-votes are good ONLY if they require a comment to explain what the down-voter did not like about the Challenge. I think that some challenge creators might want to know the reason while others either do not want to know the reason or know it anyway. Take e.g. this challenge http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/view.aspx?cx=CX7DE You have to go to the uppermost Ikea park deck in Hamburg and take a photograph of yourself eating three hot dogs at the same time. On of the logs for that challenge states that a friend of the logger from the US told the story that Groundspeak has come around with the challenges to test how silly geocachers are. Another one of that type http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/view.aspx?cx=CX859 There are way too many challenges at the moment which are intended to make fun about cachers doing them or making fun about Groundspeak. Cezanne I think the silliness is just a reaction to Kiss A Frog and will die out. If not then most of the silly ones will be voted out of existence before we even hear about them. Quote Link to comment
GOF and Bacall Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 This is why I think down-votes are good ONLY if they require a comment to explain what the down-voter did not like about the Challenge. I think that some challenge creators might want to know the reason while others either do not want to know the reason or know it anyway. Take e.g. this challenge http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/view.aspx?cx=CX7DE You have to go to the uppermost Ikea park deck in Hamburg and take a photograph of yourself eating three hot dogs at the same time. On of the logs for that challenge states that a friend of the logger from the US told the story that Groundspeak has come around with the challenges to test how silly geocachers are. Another one of that type http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/view.aspx?cx=CX859 There are way too many challenges at the moment which are intended to make fun about cachers doing them or making fun about Groundspeak. Cezanne I think the silliness is just a reaction to Kiss A Frog and will die out. If not then most of the silly ones will be voted out of existence before we even hear about them. I think having a way to winnow out the chaff is something they got right. If not for that the whole thing would have been choked in the first day. Quote Link to comment
+nikcap Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I'm always finding interesting, odd, off the beaten path or weird places. Some are good for physical caches, some are good for off-set or puzzle caches. All of them are good for Challenges. While there is always a Waymarking category (or several) that can fit a given location, creating a Photo or Action Challenge is really easy. I really like the accept feature, as this puts the Challenge in your profile's to-do list. Once the maps and GPX DL is available for Challenges, I think they will be a big success. At least I hope so, as the potential fun and entertainment factor seem to be limitless. Quote Link to comment
+Frank Broughton Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I've created two challenges, that I think they are great, although one has almost as many thumbs down as thumbs up, can anyone give me feedback on why this would be thumbed down? Yes, poor character members here who are purposely throwing monkey wrenches of protest into the system, acting like the child they mimic. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I've created two challenges, that I think they are great, although one has almost as many thumbs down as thumbs up, can anyone give me feedback on why this would be thumbed down? Yes, poor character members here who are purposely throwing monkey wrenches of protest into the system, acting like the child they mimic. Could it possibly be that those members that you are referring to actually hold a difference of opinion from you, Frank? You are coming very close to calling them names simply because you disagree with their evaluation of these Challenges. Quote Link to comment
+Touchstone Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Mine involves hiking a 3 mile portion of the Palmetto Trail, and find the 6 geocaches along the trail, it is not as easy as it sounds, some of the caches are tough hides, I couldn't even take credit for this challenge as I have only found 4 of the 6 lol. I don't think its a bad challenge To be perfectly honest, I might have "thumbed down" that one, as not being in the spirit of the Challenge type. I've similarly done the same on Challenges in my area that are "...hike this entire trail..." type Challenges, since they don't appear to be good "fits" with the Challenge types that are available. I'm assuming that such ambulation type Challenges will be better supported in the future (at least I hope so, since I love to hike). For the time being, I've been routinely "thumbing up" just about anything that isn't terribly lame (i.e. the hardware store photo op would probably be one I wouldn't be able to bring myself to thumb up), and is either some specific "Action", or "Photo" at a specific location. Nothing personal I'm really enjoying your other thread....some great examples so far. Quote Link to comment
GOF and Bacall Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I've given thumbs down to many challenges. I use that when I think a challenge is low quality. Strictly a subjective opinion. I flag a cache when I think it is outside the parameters set by Groundspeak for what is an exceptionable challenge. Like if it isn't location specific. Quote Link to comment
GOF and Bacall Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Mine involves hiking a 3 mile portion of the Palmetto Trail, and find the 6 geocaches along the trail, it is not as easy as it sounds, some of the caches are tough hides, I couldn't even take credit for this challenge as I have only found 4 of the 6 lol. I don't think its a bad challenge To be perfectly honest, I might have "thumbed down" that one, as not being in the spirit of the Challenge type. I've similarly done the same on Challenges in my area that are "...hike this entire trail..." type Challenges, since they don't appear to be good "fits" with the Challenge types that are available. I'm assuming that such ambulation type Challenges will be better supported in the future (at least I hope so, since I love to hike). For the time being, I've been routinely "thumbing up" just about anything that isn't terribly lame (i.e. the hardware store photo op would probably be one I wouldn't be able to bring myself to thumb up), and is either some specific "Action", or "Photo" at a specific location. Nothing personal I'm really enjoying your other thread....some great examples so far. I'm with you on this. Finding caches just shouldn't be a challenge. Too much like double dipping in the french onion. Quote Link to comment
+Frank Broughton Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) I've created two challenges, that I think they are great, although one has almost as many thumbs down as thumbs up, can anyone give me feedback on why this would be thumbed down? Yes, poor character members here who are purposely throwing monkey wrenches of protest into the system, acting like the child they mimic. Could it possibly be that those members that you are referring to actually hold a difference of opinion from you, Frank? You are coming very close to calling them names simply because you disagree with their evaluation of these Challenges. No, no chance - some of them are so obvious! I wish one of them would step forward and accuse me of calling them a name. Can't call a name to an invisible coward! Edit: matter of fact, from this point on, for every challenge I thumb down I will leave a public comment on the page mentioning why - you with me? anyone? Edited August 23, 2011 by Frank Broughton Quote Link to comment
+TheAlabamaRambler Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 ...Edit: matter of fact, from this point on, for every challenge I thumb down I will leave a public comment on the page mentioning why - you with me? anyone? I wish everyone would. It lets everyone know what you didn't like. We can learn from that. Just a down-vote tells us nothing. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I've created two challenges, that I think they are great, although one has almost as many thumbs down as thumbs up, can anyone give me feedback on why this would be thumbed down? Yes, poor character members here who are purposely throwing monkey wrenches of protest into the system, acting like the child they mimic. Could it possibly be that those members that you are referring to actually hold a difference of opinion from you, Frank? You are coming very close to calling them names simply because you disagree with their evaluation of these Challenges. No, no chance - some of them are so obvious! I wish one of them would step forward and accuse me of calling them a name. Can't call a name to an invisible coward! Edit: matter of fact, from this point on, for every challenge I thumb down I will leave a public comment on the page mentioning why - you with me? anyone? Frank, Frank, Frank.... "coward"? Come on, Frank. We are talking about geocaches here, not wars. Jeremy is not a saint, and those that disagree with your opinions regarding this new cache type are not children or cowards. Let's come towards the center a bit, OK? I'm feeling that you are going just a tad overboard about all of this. Quote Link to comment
+nikcap Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 ...Edit: matter of fact, from this point on, for every challenge I thumb down I will leave a public comment on the page mentioning why - you with me? anyone? I wish everyone would. It lets everyone know what you didn't like. We can learn from that. Just a down-vote tells us nothing. I'll second (or third) you on that one. If I flag, thumb up or thump down a cache, I'd leave a note on why. Quote Link to comment
+Frank Broughton Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I've created two challenges, that I think they are great, although one has almost as many thumbs down as thumbs up, can anyone give me feedback on why this would be thumbed down? Yes, poor character members here who are purposely throwing monkey wrenches of protest into the system, acting like the child they mimic. Could it possibly be that those members that you are referring to actually hold a difference of opinion from you, Frank? You are coming very close to calling them names simply because you disagree with their evaluation of these Challenges. No, no chance - some of them are so obvious! I wish one of them would step forward and accuse me of calling them a name. Can't call a name to an invisible coward! Edit: matter of fact, from this point on, for every challenge I thumb down I will leave a public comment on the page mentioning why - you with me? anyone? Frank, Frank, Frank.... "coward"? Come on, Frank. We are talking about geocaches here, not wars. Jeremy is not a saint, and those that disagree with your opinions regarding this new cache type are not children or cowards. Let's come towards the center a bit, OK? I'm feeling that you are going just a tad overboard about all of this. I am in the center KC I agree an honest opinion is certainly allowed by all, but there is obvious sabotage going on - that I have little patience for, and that is what my concern is. Do not worry I will chill out..... eventually haha. Quote Link to comment
AZcachemeister Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 So far I'm not completely impressed. But I do see that some cachers have figured them out and provided some that are really worthwhile. I am ever the optimist, so perhaps this will (finally) be the one rose in a field of onions. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I've created two challenges, that I think they are great, although one has almost as many thumbs down as thumbs up, can anyone give me feedback on why this would be thumbed down? Yes, poor character members here who are purposely throwing monkey wrenches of protest into the system, acting like the child they mimic. Could it possibly be that those members that you are referring to actually hold a difference of opinion from you, Frank? You are coming very close to calling them names simply because you disagree with their evaluation of these Challenges. No, no chance - some of them are so obvious! I wish one of them would step forward and accuse me of calling them a name. Can't call a name to an invisible coward! Edit: matter of fact, from this point on, for every challenge I thumb down I will leave a public comment on the page mentioning why - you with me? anyone? Frank, Frank, Frank.... "coward"? Come on, Frank. We are talking about geocaches here, not wars. Jeremy is not a saint, and those that disagree with your opinions regarding this new cache type are not children or cowards. Let's come towards the center a bit, OK? I'm feeling that you are going just a tad overboard about all of this. I am in the center KC I agree an honest opinion is certainly allowed by all, but there is obvious sabotage going on - that I have little patience for, and that is what my concern is. Do not worry I will chill out..... eventually haha. What you call sabotage could, depending on your point of view, also be called civil disobedience. As a matter of fact, that is the very origin of the term, "sabotage". Quote Link to comment
+Hockeyhick Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 Who am I to say whether or not a challenge is worthy unless I have actually done it? Let's keep this thread positive. If you don't like them, or the way that the system currently is right now, there are a plethora of other threads that you could contribute to. Quote Link to comment
GOF and Bacall Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Who am I to say whether or not a challenge is worthy unless I have actually done it? You are exactly who Groundspeak wants to make such judgements. You, and I, and all the rest of the users who look at these things. As long as you are looking with a critical eye and making a conscious decision it's all good. Unfortunately it seems like some are just shooting down everything they can. Quote Link to comment
+BuckeyeClan Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Who am I to say whether or not a challenge is worthy unless I have actually done it? You are exactly who Groundspeak wants to make such judgements. You, and I, and all the rest of the users who look at these things. As long as you are looking with a critical eye and making a conscious decision it's all good. Unfortunately it seems like some are just shooting down everything they can. I'm pretty sure I saw a quote from Jeremy somewhere (scratching my head here, trying to recall where) *encouraging* people to vote up or down, even if they haven't done the challenge. I think the idea is that if everybody gives their opinion on any challenge that they look at, then the unfairly biased votes don't count as strongly. That way people that vote everything down on principle, or maybe vote up on bad challenges because their friend listed it, don't have as great of an impact. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Who am I to say whether or not a challenge is worthy unless I have actually done it? OK, I guess you're not going to be a cache reviewer. Quote Link to comment
GOF and Bacall Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Who am I to say whether or not a challenge is worthy unless I have actually done it? OK, I guess you're not going to be a cache reviewer. Good way to put it. Quote Link to comment
+DonB Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I think they have potential once people are educated and stop submitting challenges that are not tied to a location. It seems 90 percent of the naysayers do not realize that challenges are supposed to be location based (the exception being worldwide challenges). The criticisms I keep seeing ad nauseum are "couch potato", "they don't take you anywhere", "can log them from my living room", etc. This is not the case. They are certainly a suitable replacement for virtuals because just like virtuals they are supposed to take you somewhere that you see or do something. Now if people would only use them that way. For those who want to see challenges succeed, submit your own location based challenges to show the way. And be sure to flag anyone that is not location based as inappropriate. Would your definition of being location based be one where you go find the see no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil monkey statues and sit with them and make faces, or stand on your head in front of the Washington Monument? They would both be locations, but I sure can't equate them to the old virtuals that took me to interesting historic sites, memorials to famous people, and other interesting places in several states, places that possible would not even be in the local tourist literature. I'm not trying to start an argument, just trying to understand the term location based because the way I see it any challenge could have a location no matter how childish or ridicules it would be. Quote Link to comment
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