Challenges: Now that they are released

[Dinoprophet]

How negative does it have to be to be removed? People are downvoting mine because, this is just an ASSumption, that they live in Germany and/or the UK. My challenge can come off as VERY commercial. However, buying a cheese steak at Pat's and Geno's is something EVERY tourist does. They have a long-standing rivalry. Trust me, i've been there plenty of times, you see so many tourists its ridiculous.

 

If you, however, have never been to Philadelphia, or have don't live in the US, you wouldn't know it was a tourist attraction. So you would be led to believe that it is strictly commercial.

 

I am not liking the rating system, you don't even have to live within 5000 miles of the challenge, or even attempt it in order to rate something you have no idea about.

It sounds like the flags is what gets one removed, not thumbs down.

http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/faq.aspx

[+Panther&Pine]

There are some busy GS staff members archiving these things.

[+Da Krewe]

I was excited about this until I saw the one for taking a picture with a frog. It is silly and has nothing to do with getting out and doing something.

 

While I don't care for those, there are many out there that I think are good. This one is a good example of what a challenge is supposed to be:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/view.aspx?cx=CX10D

 

My wife and I were discussing this silliness and she is against them. She thinks it will led to numbers padding. But I mentioned that anyone sitting at home on a computer can find logs of real caches that have "wet log. could not sign" or the "Log full" and post it as a find without ever having left the couch. Same thing as kissing a frog, IMHO...

[+Fianccetto]

My Thoughts on Challenges:

 

Action Challenge - Have some merit, but should be specific to some kind of outdoor activity and involve a GPS.

 

Bad Example of an Action Challenge: Play a game of checkers with your kids.

Good Example of an Action Challenge: Find 50 multicaches with your kids ... or ... Find a cache in all 50 U.S. states.

How would you feel about this: go to location of a large checkerboard. Play checkers.

Good Example of a Photo Challenge: Take a photo of yourself holding a geocaching logo at the summit of a mountain ... or ... take a photo of yourself with a geocaching logo and GPS ... in Big Ben ...

How, exactly, would you get IN Big Ben?

Challenges should be reviewed and have some kind of standards just like hiding a cache.

As far as I can tell, geocaches have no such standards.

And finally CHALLENGES SHOULD NOT COUNT TOWARD YOUR FIND TOTAL!

Why?

LOL, yes, Big Ben being the bell inside the clock tower of the Palace of Westminster.

[cezanne]

 

Thanks for the offer. If I do fly through Austria it would most likely be through Vienna or Salzburg.

 

I thought so anyway, but the offer is also valid for those locations.

 

I've also seen a lot of retroactive logging from those that completed the challenge before the challenge existed.

 

Right, but I am more worried about other aspects. As the challenge creator has no control at all over the logs, there are even many bogus logs for challenges that are bound to specific locations. Many loggers either do not understand the task at all (sometimes they do not even understand the language properly) or they believe that challenges are like locationless caches which also had some coordinates associated to them but which did not play a role there either. So I guess that when when cachers come across a new challenge and see pictures of a river, they simply will post also a picture of a river regardless of which one and think that they are doing everything correctly.

 

In my opinion, it will be very hard for Groundspeak to sort out that chaos if they intent to do so. It will be even harder to reach those whose English is weak. There are no reviewers that can act as communicators and mediators like for physical caches and Earthcaches.

 

Cezanne

[cb82]

My thoughts so far? Garmin will be very happy...

Are you trying to suggest that people will go to a site that has minimal support only a handful of caches (most dual listed) and lots of issues just because they dislike challenges.

 

I'm not buying that. A lot of people are showing their dislike in many ways and I'm betting there will be some changes to challenges that require them to be tied to a location. Then all they have to do is make them archive after so many negative votes.

 

People won't leave because they dislike challenges, they'll leave because the owner of this site obviously doesn't care about what it's user's want.

[+deb3day]

If these things count, why don't benchmarks count? It was harder to take a pic of a legit benchmark than some of this stuff, but I didn't get a count for it.

 

Agreed. If these challenges count, then benchmarks should count as well.

 

Thank you Tadpole!

[+dcigary]

The challenge owners and the people completing the challenges should both be able to edit/remove their logs.

 

Edited August 18, 2011 by dcigary

[+Ike 13]

I just clicked on "Your Cat" and "Your House" to give them the thumbs down and they were archived.

 

Hmmm maybe locationless ones are in danger

[+northernpenguin]

So far what I like the most about challenges is the vote down button

 

Really? You don't want to play, so you're going to go out of your way to wreck it for those who would like to try it?

Are you the kind of cacher who goes around slapping Should Be Archived logs on every cache they dislike just because the cache exists?

[Dinoprophet]

I was excited about this until I saw the one for taking a picture with a frog. It is silly and has nothing to do with getting out and doing something.

That's the one GS created.

[+docsigma]

I've completed a few challenges and now I kinda wish I hadn't, but I can't cancel out of them because they've all been archived. (You *can* cancel out of a completed challenge if it HASN'T been archived, but if it has, you can't.)

[+The QCs]

I suddenly see Geocachers becoming very adept at using Photoshop to rig their finds. Absolute madness to include arm chair finds in your cache totals. I love the walk and finding the caches, not sitting on my sofa snogging frogs!

[+northernpenguin]

I've completed a few challenges and now I kinda wish I hadn't, but I can't cancel out of them because they've all been archived. (You *can* cancel out of a completed challenge if it HASN'T been archived, but if it has, you can't.)

 

Toss that one on the feedback site. Sounds like a bug they didn't catch.

[+Motorcycledude]

The best part is that out of all ridiculous challenges ppl have created Groundspeak's own is still one of the worst ones.

[+northernpenguin]

I suddenly see Geocachers becoming very adept at using Photoshop to rig their finds. Absolute madness to include arm chair finds in your cache totals. I love the walk and finding the caches, not sitting on my sofa snogging frogs!

 

Just as there are cachers who watch for listings to be disabled/archived then log a "yeah I was there moments before the container disappeared". People will cheat. Since there is no prize being handed out, who cares.

[+docsigma]

I've completed a few challenges and now I kinda wish I hadn't, but I can't cancel out of them because they've all been archived. (You *can* cancel out of a completed challenge if it HASN'T been archived, but if it has, you can't.)

 

Toss that one on the feedback site. Sounds like a bug they didn't catch.

Looks like someone beat me to it: http://feedback.geocaching.com/forums/75775-geocaching-com/suggestions/2171237-bug-archived-challenge-can-t-be-left?ref=comments#comments

 

But that really only tells half the story (and a half I didn't realize at the time!).

 

There should just be a delete button on your profile page, or something...

[+deb3day]

My thoughts so far? Garmin will be very happy...

Are you trying to suggest that people will go to a site that has minimal support only a handful of caches (most dual listed) and lots of issues just because they dislike challenges.

 

I'm not buying that. A lot of people are showing their dislike in many ways and I'm betting there will be some changes to challenges that require them to be tied to a location. Then all they have to do is make them archive after so many negative votes.

 

People won't leave because they dislike challenges, they'll leave because the owner of this site obviously doesn't care about what it's user's want.

 

I just won't do a challenge unless it fulfills my criteria of being like a cache. If it takes me to some place and makes me see something, then I'd be willing to log it and take the smilie. If I can grab a smilie for taking a picture in my house, I'm not doing it. If others was to pad their numbers by doing silly challenges, that's their choice. I don't have to go for it. I'm not going to take my picture with a frog.

 

BTW, can you delete your choice to take a challenge after you've posted it if you change your mind?

[cezanne]

 

My wife and I were discussing this silliness and she is against them. She thinks it will led to numbers padding. But I mentioned that anyone sitting at home on a computer can find logs of real caches that have "wet log. could not sign" or the "Log full" and post it as a find without ever having left the couch. Same thing as kissing a frog, IMHO...

 

I am not that much worried about the kissing the frog example by itself. It has been created by Groundspeak and those challenges would be limited in number. The unfortunate thing is that the kissing the frog example made tons of cachers believe that the challenges set up by premium members are to be like the kissing the frog example.

 

The difference with respect to fake logs for physical caches is that a cache owner can go and check the log book and has control over the logs which is not the case for challenges. Someone can claim a find for a challenge asking for going to the Mount Everest by posting a picture of the local castle hill and the challenge creator cannot do anything about it.

 

Cezanne

[+Ashallond]

If these things count, why don't benchmarks count? It was harder to take a pic of a legit benchmark than some of this stuff, but I didn't get a count for it.

 

AMEN

[+Ike 13]

People won't leave because they dislike challenges, they'll leave because the owner of this site obviously doesn't care about what it's user's want.

 

Actually they created these because people requested them. Now I agree it doesn't work, but we're only a few hours in so I'm willing to give GS some time to clean up. The main issue is the fact that people are not tying them to a location. I'm starting to see more that are tied to a location, and I'm seeing those that are not start to disappear. Maybe they can make this work.

[+Chrysalides]

I keep seeing people referring to a challenge to kiss a frog. I'm too lazy to go look it up, but I'm thinking of changing my username to "a frog"...

 

It actually says that kissing someone with the nickname Frog counts. You that desperate for kisses???

More interested in seeing how desperate others are in bumping up their counts. But not really that interested. Besides, I guess the user ID frog is already taken.

[cb82]

If these things count, why don't benchmarks count? It was harder to take a pic of a legit benchmark than some of this stuff, but I didn't get a count for it.

 

AMEN

 

I have to agree.

[+docsigma]

BTW, can you delete your choice to take a challenge after you've posted it if you change your mind?

Yep. There's a button something like "Unaccept Challenge" or something along those lines. Heck, you can even "opt out" of a *completed* challenge by clicking "Mark As Incomplete" after you've completed it... well, unless it becomes archived after you complete it!

[cezanne]

The best part is that out of all ridiculous challenges ppl have created Groundspeak's own is still one of the worst ones.

 

But it is at least classified correctly, namely as worldwide challenge which is creatable only by Groundspeak and which does not require

a specific location. All the locationless challenges submitted by normal cachers are not what they pretend to be as all photo and action challenges that can be submitted by PMs ought to be bound to a specific location.

 

Cezanne

[jholly]

I keep seeing people referring to a challenge to kiss a frog. I'm too lazy to go look it up, but I'm thinking of changing my username to "a frog"...

Do you really want me kissing you?

[+dcigary]

Ok, about the only thing done right so far is that you can mark a completed challenge incomplete and then back out of a challenge. I won't be doing any of these until:

 

1) Challenges must have a location

2) They must be downloadable with a .GPX file (how else am I going to keep track of them in GSAK?)

 

In other words, they should be just like Virtual Caches.

 

Otherwise, this is just going to turn into a huge "Planking" site. Sure, it'll be great for Groundspeak, with all those extra ad impressions and page hits, but all that extra horsepower in those new servers will be dedicated to this silliness.

[cb82]

 

[+Coldgears]

Oh that was yours. Sorry but I do not think that challenges should be commercial. Next thing you know you get a find every time you drive thru McDs

But Groundspeak does! Did you listen to the PodCast? Jeremy said himself that one of his favorite features of the new challenges is that it is free of the commercial guidelines!

 

Secondly, buying a CheeseSteak at Pat's and Geno's is an action that EVERYONE in Philadelphia does. It's exactly like going to see the liberty bell... Would you thumbs down my Challenge for seeing the Liberty Bell? (You have to pay to get in, and it IS commercial, the money goes towards the city).

 

Also, comparing buying two Cheese Steaks in the heart of the city that created, and popularized the Cheese Steak, from the two most renown Cheesesteak seller's in the city, who just so happen to have the most well known food rivarly in the world...

 

Is quite different then... buying a cheeseburger at McDonalds, sorry, don't compare at all.

 

 

[+deb3day]

A friend of mine just emailed me with a good question. How can we see the locations of these challenges on a map? He wanted to see mine and can't figure it out.

[+Coldgears]

Sorry, couldn't post more then two video's.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vws16IsnW_g

[+docsigma]

The worst part of all this, in my opinion, is that people, especially new people, will start to associate "geocaching" with taking pictures of dogs and such.

[+OMUK]

Please, please get rid of this pointless addition....

[+Ike 13]

 

But Groundspeak does! Did you listen to the PodCast? Jeremy said himself that one of his favorite features of the new challenges is that it is free of the commercial guidelines!

Nope and I did apologize.

[+Planet]

If this is the new virtual, I think I am going to cry.

[Dinoprophet]

My thoughts so far? Garmin will be very happy...

Are you trying to suggest that people will go to a site that has minimal support only a handful of caches (most dual listed) and lots of issues just because they dislike challenges.

 

I'm not buying that. A lot of people are showing their dislike in many ways and I'm betting there will be some changes to challenges that require them to be tied to a location. Then all they have to do is make them archive after so many negative votes.

 

People won't leave because they dislike challenges, they'll leave because the owner of this site obviously doesn't care about what it's user's want.

 

I just won't do a challenge unless it fulfills my criteria of being like a cache. If it takes me to some place and makes me see something, then I'd be willing to log it and take the smilie. If I can grab a smilie for taking a picture in my house, I'm not doing it. If others was to pad their numbers by doing silly challenges, that's their choice. I don't have to go for it. I'm not going to take my picture with a frog.

 

BTW, can you delete your choice to take a challenge after you've posted it if you change your mind?

That's where I am. I'm still debating a separate Challenge account.

 

I kind of like the stance GS has taken. No rules, totally hands-off be creative. It will be interesting to see how it evolves over the next week or two. I see where it *can* be like virtuals, but I also see where Waymarking *can* be like virtuals, and that didn't happen.

 

So: will it be possible to watch challenges?

[+Panther&Pine]

A friend of mine just emailed me with a good question. How can we see the locations of these challenges on a map? He wanted to see mine and can't figure it out.

Not as of right now.

[cezanne]

The main issue is the fact that people are not tying them to a location. I'm starting to see more that are tied to a location, and I'm seeing those that are not start to disappear. Maybe they can make this work.

 

I am still sceptic.

 

Consider e.g. this challenge

http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/view.aspx?cx=CX141

It is bound to Berlin, but not a specific location in Berlin.

There are millions of photos on the internet that show Berlin sights at night.

 

The same thing for Braunschweig

http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/view.aspx?cx=CX370

 

That one requires an outdoor trip in the UK, but again not to a specific location

http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/view.aspx?cx=CX334

 

Cezanne

Edited August 18, 2011 by cezanne

[+Coldgears]

 

But Groundspeak does! Did you listen to the PodCast? Jeremy said himself that one of his favorite features of the new challenges is that it is free of the commercial guidelines!

Nope and I did apologize.

yep...

 

By any chance... Do you know how you saw the challenge? Was it because it was new? I was hoping the dust would settle quickly, and that the only people rating it would be the locals who realize the importance of the cheesesteak, and the geocaching tourists who go and try both cheesesteaks as part of there vacation.

 

But more people that have never been in the area keep voting... What am I missing?

[+dcigary]

If these things count, why don't benchmarks count? It was harder to take a pic of a legit benchmark than some of this stuff, but I didn't get a count for it.

 

AMEN

 

I have to agree.

 

Here Here! Harrumph!

[+northernpenguin]

Just remember when bragging about your 10,000 find count that people will now want your "(finds - challenges) = find count".

The long shot of all this challenge angst will probably just be a change in how the find count is displayed in the September update. Or October.

[+Ike 13]

But more people that have never been in the area keep voting... What am I missing?

 

I saw it when it was new. I've been watching the latest activity and that shows anytime a new one pops up or when one is logged.

 

And honestly if I could take back the thumbs down I would.

[+BKip]

So far, based on reading the guidelinesand seeing one published for my area that I really don't understand the specifics, I think I'll pass for the time being. That said, I really enjoyed and would like to see the "old" style virtual caches return.

 

P.S. Is logging your own challenge acceptable?

[+Panther&Pine]

And honestly if I could take back the thumbs down I would.

I think you can.

[+Panther&Pine]

So far, based on reading the guidelinesand seeing one published for my area that I really don't understand the specifics, I think I'll pass for the time being. That said, I really enjoyed and would like to see the "old" style virtual caches return.

 

P.S. Is logging your own challenge acceptable?

I would assume so, rather like it is okay to log an Attend on your own event.

Although is it okay to log your own Earthcache?

[+Viajero Perdido]

The challenge owners and the people completing the challenges should both be able to edit/remove their logs.

 

 

The problem is, there are no challenge owners.

 

I started one, and it's out of control already. It belongs to the crowd now, and all I can do is watch. And laugh.

[+Fianccetto]

If these things count, why don't benchmarks count? It was harder to take a pic of a legit benchmark than some of this stuff, but I didn't get a count for it.

 

AMEN

 

I have to agree.

 

Here Here! Harrumph!

I concur

[+Ike 13]

And honestly if I could take back the thumbs down I would.

I think you can.

If I can I cannot figure out how.

[+Panther&Pine]

And honestly if I could take back the thumbs down I would.

I think you can.

If I can I cannot figure out how.

I'll try it on the next rediculous one I find.

 

Edit for spelling.

Edited August 18, 2011 by MooseJawSpruce

[GOF and Bacall]

Four pages already? I'll NEVER get caught up.

 

Sorry. Make that five.

Edited August 18, 2011 by GOF and Bacall