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Challenges: Now that they are released


NYPaddleCacher
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What I find funny, is that in another thread, Jeremy was all about "the location is the thing". He said he disliked challenge (little c) caches where the act of completing the challenge had nothing to do with the location of the physical cache (i.e. caches where the challenge could be met anywhere).

 

And then we get Challenges (capital C) dropped on us, where they can be created without locations playing into anything! You don't even have to visit a specific spot to get credit for it! It seems to be in direct opposition of what Jeremy was preaching.

 

WTF?!

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Even if they manage to sort out the chaos about locationless challenges, I am now pretty sure that these challenges will not be able to come close to the old virtuals.

 

Take e.g. this challenge

http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/view.aspx?cx=CX369

There is nothing bad about it, but obviously the main goal is to receive funny pictures and not to show the location and provide information about it.

 

Or that one

http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/view.aspx?cx=CXDF

The focus is on the handstand and not on the location.

 

I am also somehow wondering about the distinction between a photo and an action challenge. Somehow many photo challenges involve an action other than taking a photo and the photograph is then the proof of having performed the action. I am not sure whether the concepts are already mature and well thought up.

 

Cezanne

Edited by cezanne
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What I find funny, is that in another thread, Jeremy was all about "the location is the thing". He said he disliked challenge (little c) caches where the act of completing the challenge had nothing to do with the location of the physical cache (i.e. caches where the challenge could be met anywhere).

 

And then we get Challenges (capital C) dropped on us, where they can be created without locations playing into anything! You don't even have to visit a specific spot to get credit for it! It seems to be in direct opposition of what Jeremy was preaching.

 

WTF?!

Groundspeak seem to be busy deleting those that are locationless. report any locationless ones (red flag, I think) and they will see they do not meet that one guideline and get archived.

Edited by Fianccetto
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Four pages already? I'll NEVER get caught up.

 

Sorry. Make that five. :rolleyes:

RECAP (just for you GOF)

 

There are no rules

Cachers across the world see the GS Kiss A Frog Challenge that is locationless and believe that is how they work (guess they never read the blog, newsletter, or FAQ's)

Lots of examples of bad locationless challenges with no relation to geocaching

We find out that there is no way to control fake loggers since no one owns the challenge once it is accepted

Lots of back and forth and up and down.

It seems like GS is archiving some of the locationless ones.

Figured out how to delete your own log or accepted if the cache is active

Now we're trying to find out how to take back a thumbs up or down

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A friend of mine just emailed me with a good question. How can we see the locations of these challenges on a map? He wanted to see mine and can't figure it out.

Not yet, it is planned, but I suppose they wont have time to work on that until people stop publishing the types of caches they have to keep archiving! :rolleyes:

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What I find funny, is that in another thread, Jeremy was all about "the location is the thing". He said he disliked challenge (little c) caches where the act of completing the challenge had nothing to do with the location of the physical cache (i.e. caches where the challenge could be met anywhere).

 

And then we get Challenges (capital C) dropped on us, where they can be created without locations playing into anything! You don't even have to visit a specific spot to get credit for it! It seems to be in direct opposition of what Jeremy was preaching.

 

WTF?!

Groundspeak seem to be busy deleting those that are locationless. report any locationless ones (red flag, I think) and they will see they do not meet that one guideline and get archived.

 

So it's a clean-up after the fact, vice have controls up front. Brilliant.

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If these things count, why don't benchmarks count? It was harder to take a pic of a legit benchmark than some of this stuff, but I didn't get a count for it.

 

AMEN

 

I have to agree.

 

Here Here! Harrumph!

I concur

C'mon, you guys. Go and list finding a particular benchmark as a challenge, and you're done!

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If these things count, why don't benchmarks count? It was harder to take a pic of a legit benchmark than some of this stuff, but I didn't get a count for it.

 

AMEN

 

I have to agree.

 

Here Here! Harrumph!

I concur

C'mon, you guys. Go and list finding a particular benchmark as a challenge, and you're done!

 

(blink)(blink)

 

My GOD, that's BRILLIANT!

 

(Gets busy with the entire Benchmark database)

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If these things count, why don't benchmarks count? It was harder to take a pic of a legit benchmark than some of this stuff, but I didn't get a count for it.

 

AMEN

 

I have to agree.

 

Here Here! Harrumph!

I concur

C'mon, you guys. Go and list finding a particular benchmark as a challenge, and you're done!

Not unless they are location specific and you can see them on a map - and they show up in PQs.

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Heh.

 

I posted a local challenge, and it's kind of going ... out of control. It's international already.

 

It'll be fun to see where this goes...

 

http://coord.info/CX10D

 

I appreciate the fact that you're following up on those that are claiming to complete the challenge when in fact the didn't complete the challenge. It's kind of mind boggling that when issuing a challenge to take a photo of a specific river that someone will claim to have completed the challenge while knowingly posting a photo of a completely different river.

 

Hopefully, after the novelty wears off we'll start seeing more challenge creators that have some pride in what they've created and will politely inform those that are not actually completing the challenge as intended that "no, you did not complete the challenge" as you have done.

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Heh.

 

I posted a local challenge, and it's kind of going ... out of control. It's international already.

 

It'll be fun to see where this goes...

 

http://coord.info/CX10D

 

I appreciate the fact that you're following up on those that are claiming to complete the challenge when in fact the didn't complete the challenge. It's kind of mind boggling that when issuing a challenge to take a photo of a specific river that someone will claim to have completed the challenge while knowingly posting a photo of a completely different river.

 

Hopefully, after the novelty wears off we'll start seeing more challenge creators that have some pride in what they've created and will politely inform those that are not actually completing the challenge as intended that "no, you did not complete the challenge" as you have done.

 

At least we don't have, take a photo with some cacher no one ever sees.

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How negative does it have to be to be removed? People are downvoting mine because, this is just an ASSumption, that they live in Germany and/or the UK. My challenge can come off as VERY commercial. However, buying a cheese steak at Pat's and Geno's is something EVERY tourist does. They have a long-standing rivalry. Trust me, i've been there plenty of times, you see so many tourists its ridiculous.

 

If you, however, have never been to Philadelphia, or have don't live in the US, you wouldn't know it was a tourist attraction. So you would be led to believe that it is strictly commercial.

 

I am not liking the rating system, you don't even have to live within 5000 miles of the challenge, or even attempt it in order to rate something you have no idea about.

 

Sounds like a delicious challenge. I live about 35 miles away and wouldn't mind doing that one!

You are right it is ridiculous, especially since Tony Luke's beats both of those places hands down.

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This really is the worst idea ever...could be time to find another geocaching site. What on earth gave the site owners the idea that challenging someone to kiss a frog, as was the first challenge that popped up, is likely to be of interest to someone who is in to geocaching. Save this sort of thing for the flash mob lot.

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Furthermore, Groundspeak refers to these as "Geocaching Challenges"

 

However, most of the challenges I've seen so far have absolutely nothing to do with Geocaching and only a few I've seen require that you actually even leave your house.

 

While I have enough foresight to recognize that there is some merit to the idea of "Geocaching Challenges" this implementation of it by Groundspeak was poorly thought out and needs A LOT of work. As implemented, it has the potential to take Geocaching in a direction that does not fit Groundspeak's mission of getting people active and outdoors.

 

Challenges need to have standards to really benefit the hobby ... just like any "real" geocache.

 

Western Mass Clan

 

More and more the standards are being removed from geocaching.

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You can apparently dis-associate yourself from a challenge you've created, and now it's free-floating in the Challenge void:

 

1) Create and publish a Challenge

2) Note that your "Challenges Published" count goes up

3) Remove the log indicating that you published it

4) Note that your "Challenges Published" count goes down

5) Now note that the Challenge still exists, but now your name is nowhere associated with it (that can be seen via the public anyhow)

 

Wallah! Instant anonymous Challenges!

 

EDIT: Ok, to YOU, your "Challenges Published" doesn't go down. But everywhere else there is no record of you creating the Challenge. Not on your public profile, not in the Challenge listing, nowhere.

Edited by dcigary
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BULLCRAP BULL FREAKING CRAP! GOD FREAKING DANG IT. MY CHALLENGE WAS DELETED BY PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IN THE HECK THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. IT WON'T SHOW UP ANYMORE! BS!

 

BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT ANYTHING, GO THE HECK BACK TO AUSTRALIA WITH YOUR FALSE DOWNVOTES!

Yep, I've alway felt that a vote-off-the-island system would result in perfectly good challenges or caches getting archived just because someone has no idea what the real goal is about.

 

Hey, Coldgears, how about for your next challenge post the coordinates for someplace on the boardwalk at Wildwood and ask people to "Watch the tramcar please!" :)

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I agreed with Locationless being taken away. I agreed with Virtuals and Webcams being frozen. I agreed with ALRs being outlawed. These were all (well, OK, not ALRs :anibad: ) a bitter pill to swallow at the time, but it felt as though this was the right direction for the site...let the "other sites" pursue those if people rally want to do silly challenges, virtuals etc. The right direction has now been blown away, and the unique sensible side of geocaching also blown away.

 

Just make them a different website, just because Waymarking.org didn't take off with geocachers as the finds weren't "included", doesn't mean you should knee jerk that Challenge caches should be included as well. The visibility of a smartphone app should be enough to attract new users this time around.

 

Allowing a smiley for riding a Disney World ride is just going to really, really (yes, 2 reallys) annoy established "physical" geocachers.

 

http://coord.info/CX2DB

http://coord.info/CX7B

Edited by Maingray
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How negative does it have to be to be removed? People are downvoting mine because, this is just an ASSumption, that they live in Germany and/or the UK. My challenge can come off as VERY commercial. However, buying a cheese steak at Pat's and Geno's is something EVERY tourist does. They have a long-standing rivalry. Trust me, i've been there plenty of times, you see so many tourists its ridiculous.

 

If you, however, have never been to Philadelphia, or have don't live in the US, you wouldn't know it was a tourist attraction. So you would be led to believe that it is strictly commercial.

 

I am not liking the rating system, you don't even have to live within 5000 miles of the challenge, or even attempt it in order to rate something you have no idea about.

 

Sounds like a delicious challenge. I live about 35 miles away and wouldn't mind doing that one!

You are right it is ridiculous, especially since Tony Luke's beats both of those places hands down.

 

I dunno about that. I stopped by and had one on the way to GW9 and was less than impressed. I'd give them a second try tho on the chance it was just an off night.

 

BTW: that pretty much sums up my feelings about these new Challenges too. ;)

 

I'd like to submit a universal one but don't see a way to do that yet...maybe in the future that option will be available.

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"Cheesesteaks were invented in South Philadelphia in the 1930's at Pat's Steaks, located in the heart of South Philadelphia, hence the addition of "Philly" to the name. They were originally topped with a pizza sauce, (now called a pizza steak).

 

Where to find the best cheesesteak is a question that will forever be debated throughout the area. Only in Philadelphia could two places stay open all night selling cheesesteaks -- right across the street from each other -- and both do a thriving business.

 

The debate over whether Pat's or Geno's steaks are the best goes on every night. Both are located on Passyunk Avenue near Ninth Street in the heart of South Philly. Other neighborhoods have also staked their claims to have the best cheesesteak."

 

-History from about.com

 

Yes, anyone who has been to Philly, or will ever go to Philly knows that it is a MUST DO to try both of the Cheese Steaks. It is in every travel guide, every website, and is just as big as a deal as seeing the Liberty Bell.

 

So what is the purpose of the Challenge? Ah, that is to try both of the cheese-steaks, located right across the street from each other! Basically, you should go to each one, try both cheese steaks, and be a tourist! Post in your log which one you like better!

 

I expect 10/1 ratio of tourists to people actually in the Philadelphia area. So post whether you came over after running up the Art Museum like rocky, or if you just live in the area.

 

If you've already tried both, whether you've been to Philadelphia before and just had to do it, or if you live in the area and eat them monthly, feel free to log which one you liked better!

 

The coordinates bring you to the intersection of them both.

 

Oh, and as a bonus point, you can try Tony Lukes or Jim's, however these are not near each the location, and you would never find them on a tourist book, but they are slowly gaining notoriety, and more and more tourists are making stops here.

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Another interesting development...

 

People are posting comments on the "Kiss the Frog" challenge expressing their displeasure about the Challenges feature. Since the challenges page shows the "Latest Worldwide Challenge" with a small map and a copy of the latest log, there's a stream of comments and some times responses showing up (in what appears to be real time as comments are posted) on the main Challenges page.

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Yeah, I'm not sure how this is going to end up. Mainly the whole "no one owns them" thing is going to be bad!

 

Case in point, I just published a challenge to climb the Great Wall of China (which won't show up in searches as it's not close enough to Beijing I think, so that needs to be fixed as well) but I guarantee you the thing will be filled with fake logs. I honestly can't think of why I might want to set up other challenges when there's surely so much abuse headed its way.

 

I also suspect that those folks at Groundspeak didn't stop to think about how lots of the rest of the world is with regard to geocaching. I can't find a way to see if there are other Great Wall of China challenges yet because the thing is a few hours drive from Beijing and covers a lot of miles and there's no way to do a general search, or a country search, or anything basic. (And not like you're going to do a smartphone search out there either!) How is a challenge good at all if no one can find it? <_<

 

As a final note, does anyone know where my challenge logs would go after I completed one? I did one just to see what's up but it doesn't show up on "your profile" which seems silly, or your stats, or anything else like that.

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Another discovery- the challenge I logged earlier is now "no longer available" as it was the one where you just had to Tweet about geocaching (logged it when I didn't realize how they worked cause yep, lazy and didn't read at first glance). So now I want to delete it but can't because the entire cache page disappeared!

 

What gives? :huh:

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Another discovery- the challenge I logged earlier is now "no longer available" as it was the one where you just had to Tweet about geocaching (logged it when I didn't realize how they worked cause yep, lazy and didn't read at first glance). So now I want to delete it but can't because the entire cache page disappeared!

 

What gives? :huh:

 

Yep, i have the same problem as You ;/ i hope they will fix it soon :).

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Folks who vote up or down should be required to post a comment about why they voted that way. Mine has one completion (which I know to be legitimate) and 5 (edit: 7 now) down votes, but I have no idea why those 7 didn't like it.

 

I suspect that some silly folks who just don't like the whole concept are spending their day voting them all down.

 

http://coord.info/CX21F

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler
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I keep seeing people referring to a challenge to kiss a frog. I'm too lazy to go look it up, but I'm thinking of changing my username to "a frog"...

 

It actually says that kissing someone with the nickname Frog counts. You that desperate for kisses???

 

I worked at a girl scout camp this summer with a counselor whose nickname was Toad. I wonder if she would count since she's not technically a "Frog"...

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"Cheesesteaks were invented in South Philadelphia in the 1930's at Pat's Steaks, located in the heart of South Philadelphia, hence the addition of "Philly" to the name. They were originally topped with a pizza sauce, (now called a pizza steak).

 

Where to find the best cheesesteak is a question that will forever be debated throughout the area. Only in Philadelphia could two places stay open all night selling cheesesteaks -- right across the street from each other -- and both do a thriving business.

 

The debate over whether Pat's or Geno's steaks are the best goes on every night. Both are located on Passyunk Avenue near Ninth Street in the heart of South Philly. Other neighborhoods have also staked their claims to have the best cheesesteak."

 

-History from about.com

 

Yes, anyone who has been to Philly, or will ever go to Philly knows that it is a MUST DO to try both of the Cheese Steaks. It is in every travel guide, every website, and is just as big as a deal as seeing the Liberty Bell.

 

So what is the purpose of the Challenge? Ah, that is to try both of the cheese-steaks, located right across the street from each other! Basically, you should go to each one, try both cheese steaks, and be a tourist! Post in your log which one you like better!

 

I expect 10/1 ratio of tourists to people actually in the Philadelphia area. So post whether you came over after running up the Art Museum like rocky, or if you just live in the area.

 

If you've already tried both, whether you've been to Philadelphia before and just had to do it, or if you live in the area and eat them monthly, feel free to log which one you liked better!

 

The coordinates bring you to the intersection of them both.

 

Oh, and as a bonus point, you can try Tony Lukes or Jim's, however these are not near each the location, and you would never find them on a tourist book, but they are slowly gaining notoriety, and more and more tourists are making stops here.

When my husband came back from Philly this was all he would talk about for quite some time, if that's any consolation.

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Folks who vote up or down should be required to post a comment about why they voted that way. Mine has one completion (which I know to be legitimate) and 5 (edit: 7 now) down votes, but I have no idea why those 7 didn't like it.

 

I have not voted on yours, but I can tell you why I do not like it.

I do not think that it makes sense to award two found it/completed logs for finding one cache.

 

I think that finding a cache or a set of caches should not constitute a valid action for a challenge cache.

 

Cezanne

Edited by cezanne
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Folks who vote up or down should be required to post a comment about why they voted that way. Mine has one completion (which I know to be legitimate) and 5 (edit: 7 now) down votes, but I have no idea why those 7 didn't like it.

 

I have not voted on yours, but I can tell you why I do not like it.

I do not think that it makes sense to award two found it logs for finding one cache.

 

Cezanne

 

Right, a great example of why these are bad. "Double Dip" challenges, armchair extra smiley, call what you will. Nor tied to ANY location. And someone else can make the same Double Dip challenge for the same thing. Sigh.

Edited by Maingray
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I sure hope this feature goes away. IF they don't they should at least not count as a find. WHy would you want to plank a table, kiss a frog, or hug your dog that anybody can do anywhere and run their numbers up. I find this idea baf if you are going to do this why could it not be like the old virtuals.

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Four pages already? I'll NEVER get caught up.

 

Sorry. Make that five. :rolleyes:

RECAP (just for you GOF)

 

There are no rules

Cachers across the world see the GS Kiss A Frog Challenge that is locationless and believe that is how they work (guess they never read the blog, newsletter, or FAQ's)

Lots of examples of bad locationless challenges with no relation to geocaching

We find out that there is no way to control fake loggers since no one owns the challenge once it is accepted

Lots of back and forth and up and down.

It seems like GS is archiving some of the locationless ones.

Figured out how to delete your own log or accepted if the cache is active

Now we're trying to find out how to take back a thumbs up or down

 

I like this recap better:

 

Groundspeak introduces yet another poorly-thought-out-thing that may or may not excite people while ignoring really annoying bugs that affect geocachers.

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Folks who vote up or down should be required to post a comment about why they voted that way. Mine has one completion (which I know to be legitimate) and 5 (edit: 7 now) down votes, but I have no idea why those 7 didn't like it.

 

I suspect that some silly folks who just don't like the whole concept are spending their day voting them all down.

 

http://coord.info/CX21F

 

I voted it down because it isn't location specific. The action can be completed anywhere and as I understand it these are supposed to be location specific unless they are a world challenge created by Groundspeak.

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Folks who vote up or down should be required to post a comment about why they voted that way. Mine has one completion (which I know to be legitimate) and 5 (edit: 7 now) down votes, but I have no idea why those 7 didn't like it.

 

I have not voted on yours, but I can tell you why I do not like it.

I do not think that it makes sense to award two found it logs for finding one cache.

 

Cezanne

 

Right, a great example of why these are bad. "Double Dip" challenges, armchair extra smiley, call what you will. Nor tied to ANY location. And someone else can make the same Double Dip challenge for the same thing. Sigh.

Thanks for the input! That's much more helpful than just an unexplained down vote. :D

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Folks who vote up or down should be required to post a comment about why they voted that way. Mine has one completion (which I know to be legitimate) and 5 (edit: 7 now) down votes, but I have no idea why those 7 didn't like it.

 

I suspect that some silly folks who just don't like the whole concept are spending their day voting them all down.

 

http://coord.info/CX21F

 

I voted it down because it isn't location specific. The action can be completed anywhere and as I understand it these are supposed to be location specific unless they are a world challenge created by Groundspeak.

Thanks for your input, it is always appreciated! I would just note that the Challenge Cache my Challenge is based on is not location-specific either. Anyone anywhere who has found all 81 D/T combinations can log a find on it. Not sure then why my Challenge would need to be location-specific if the cache itself isn't.

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler
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How negative does it have to be to be removed? People are downvoting mine because, this is just an ASSumption, that they live in Germany and/or the UK. My challenge can come off as VERY commercial. However, buying a cheese steak at Pat's and Geno's is something EVERY tourist does. They have a long-standing rivalry. Trust me, i've been there plenty of times, you see so many tourists its ridiculous.

 

If you, however, have never been to Philadelphia, or have don't live in the US, you wouldn't know it was a tourist attraction. So you would be led to believe that it is strictly commercial.

 

I am not liking the rating system, you don't even have to live within 5000 miles of the challenge, or even attempt it in order to rate something you have no idea about.

Oh that was yours. Sorry but I do not think that challenges should be commercial. Next thing you know you get a find every time you drive thru McDs

And that's fine that you think that, but it is not what GS thinks. I heard JI talking about putting challenges in Disney World or something like that. Pat's and Geno's are well within the parameters of what action challenges can be about.

 

A challenge to drive through McDs and order one of everything on the dollar menu would have more merit than some out there. Unfortunately, it would also be right up my alley. In fact, I might go do this without the challenge. I'd rather go grab a cheese steak, though.

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Folks who vote up or down should be required to post a comment about why they voted that way. Mine has one completion (which I know to be legitimate) and 5 (edit: 7 now) down votes, but I have no idea why those 7 didn't like it.

 

I suspect that some silly folks who just don't like the whole concept are spending their day voting them all down.

 

http://coord.info/CX21F

 

I voted it down because it isn't location specific. The action can be completed anywhere and as I understand it these are supposed to be location specific unless they are a world challenge created by Groundspeak.

Thanks for your input, it is always appreciated! I would just note that the Challenge Cache my Challenge is based on is not location-specific either. Anyone anywhere who has found all 81 D/T combinations can log a find on it. Not sure then why my Challenge would need to be location-specific if the cache itself isn't.

 

Agree on the location thing. But, as far as I can tell, anyone can set up an equivalent challenge like yours. Double dipping would then be multiple dipping. It's juts a case of searching* for the challenges on the website to log them. On paper, the community is meant to respond with "Oh no, another one of these" and down vote. I just don't think that will happen.

 

* or some enterprising soul listing them all on a website, as happened for locationless caches.

Edited by Maingray
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I think I found the first "archived challenge". Someone created a challenge called "Challenge to Kill Challenges" and when you go to the link there is a message that "This Challenge has been archived and is no longer available."

 

I archived mine as well. I want nothing to do with the farce they seem to have become within only a couple of hours.

 

I was excited about creating an interesting challenge. Then I saw what it is all about, and archived mine as well.

WhyBotherMarking failed dismally, so TPTB turned Geocaching into WhyBotherMarking. Really sad!

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How negative does it have to be to be removed? People are downvoting mine because, this is just an ASSumption, that they live in Germany and/or the UK. My challenge can come off as VERY commercial. However, buying a cheese steak at Pat's and Geno's is something EVERY tourist does. They have a long-standing rivalry. Trust me, i've been there plenty of times, you see so many tourists its ridiculous.

 

If you, however, have never been to Philadelphia, or have don't live in the US, you wouldn't know it was a tourist attraction. So you would be led to believe that it is strictly commercial.

 

I am not liking the rating system, you don't even have to live within 5000 miles of the challenge, or even attempt it in order to rate something you have no idea about.

Oh that was yours. Sorry but I do not think that challenges should be commercial. Next thing you know you get a find every time you drive thru McDs

And that's fine that you think that, but it is not what GS thinks. I heard JI talking about putting challenges in Disney World or something like that. Pat's and Geno's are well within the parameters of what action challenges can be about.

 

A challenge to drive through McDs and order one of everything on the dollar menu would have more merit than some out there. Unfortunately, it would also be right up my alley. In fact, I might go do this without the challenge. I'd rather go grab a cheese steak, though.

I suppose it's possible that there will be a separate restaurant (challenge) category later. (Just guessing from that was said at the end of the podcast, but admit I was not listening very carefully by the end.)

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