The official website desperately needs an overhaul

[Viscus]

Alright, so I'm new to this forum. I'm even relatively new to Geocaching, as I have "only" found 60 caches over the last few months. Therefore, this topic might have been up at previous times - it would not surprise me - and if it has, I only hope the mods here are kind enough to look past this thread. If it's in the wrong section, it's because I couldn't find the right one. And don't yell at me for not using that twitter thing.. does anyone?

 

Case of the matter

The website is pretty much as un-userfriendly as they come. Besides the introduction video for beginners at the start page, and the forum which is pretty basic, the rest of the site could real a complete overhaul. There are several batches of stuff that bugs the mind out of me:

 

1. The social network and communication

I am so grateful that it's possible to register as a user on the site and share my list of found/placed caches. But the gratefulness ends there as the other functions, such as adding a friend or communicating or even finding other players, are a hassle compared to other social networks.

 

Why is the option "Accept friend requests" unchecked as standard? Why do I have to first enter my profile, then click an obscure search-link down in the sub-menu to find another player? Why are there so many pages to get basic information (I believe there are 3 different pages to check my Cache-finds, which could probably be merged into one)? Why do I have to send an e-mail via the site in order to communicate with other players?

 

The heart of the problem is that it is difficult to connect with other players via the official website. There should be a searchbar at the top of the site (as on Facebook) where you can easily find other members. There should be an integrated PM and IM-system. There should be better, simpler but more-informative profiles and caching-information.

 

The social aspect of Geocaching is almost as important as the rest of this hobby and in it's current state, it's deeply, absurdly outdated compared to almost any other social network.

 

2. User-friendlyness and information

Let's admit it, the site is a rather clunky experience before you "get the hang of it". But should we really need to "get the hang of it" in order to enjoy the experience? The list of improvements are basically endless and I would like to adress a few of them.

 

Hide and seek a cache - answer me this: Why does this button bring me to a declaration form? Really, anyone who has tried the official maps knows that it provides better, faster information, more easily (through a simple search bar) and more efficiently. Why isn't the maps the first-hand-option instead of a weird form and list of closeby geocaches? Hm.

 

Profiles are a mess. It's basically a list of text barely without separation and while it fills it purpose, it's boring and unengaging to feast your eyes on. I've seen there are some ways to manipulate the profile by adding external material such as stats from www.logicweave.com but that does not count. All the top information (Member Since, Last Visit, Status etc..) could be in a top- or side-border. Anything but plain text, black on white. Also, why does the profile pictures have to be that minimal? Add some code to automatically resize and compress them (maybe even crop).

 

When I press "Your profile" in the left-side menu, it brings me to my private profile, or something, with my latest logs. I can choose to go to my public profile from here. But the thing that particularily irritates me on this page, is that there are *counts* literally 12 different menus for stuff! Why? There's the ordinary menu to the left, some weird top menu, and a batch of micro-menus with random content to the right. Why not simply bring me to my "Public profile" when i actually click "Your profile"? The un-related stuff could be placed elsewhere.

 

Lack of sub-menus. The "Resources" page is basically a stand-in for a submenu. Also, why is the page called "resources" when it's obviously an information-central for geocaching beginners? Anyways, clicking on the "Resources" tab in the menu could instead bring up a submenu below it in which we could review the content of that page. This goes for all of the other pages/tabs. There is actually submenus at the bottom of the screen but who either thinks of going there or actually goes there in order to navigate the site?

 

There is more but I want to keep this post short(ened).

 

3. The overall design

Geocaching.com is the official site yet it looks like was made ten years ago. You might argue that it's supposed to be simplistic and easy to surf but I'd argue it's neither. Okay, the site doesn't have to look fancy and well-dressed-up, but in my humble opinion, it helps greatly. The intro-video in the first page is a gold star but from there and on most of the site is pretty boring to look at.

 

There are borders, in which there are text and images, but it's uncreative and bland to look at. Instead of sub-menus there are like pages with dot-lists and links to other pages ad infinitum. Why not make those lists into flowing texts, maybe mix them up with a nice background instead of screaming white? I don't know, I'm not a graphics expert or website designer, but I still find the website pretty dull..

 

4. Other stuff

Why do I have to scroll down to the bottom right side of the start page to get news from Groundspeak - why isn't there a "News Section" in either the start page or a link to it in the left-side menu? I find it both interesting and important to know what's going on so I think they should be more on the front with that.

 

Facebook integration. It would be great for me, as an addict-Facebook-user, to be able to share my Geocaching logs on my public facebook profile. Facebook integration is available with approximately everything else in the world, I'm suprised Geocaching doesn't have that option (yet). Or maybe I've missed out on it.

 

Improve the Geocaching iPhone app. It's only great because it's the only consistent Geocaching-app out there, and it definitely does it's job even though there are some blatant issues. It often slows down to a crawl or freezes up for a few seconds. Like the website, it's not user-friendly and takes some time to "get the hang of". When zoomed in a lot with Google Maps, sometimes the maps dissappear and the auto-center thing makes it impossible to zoom out. Still a great app though! I use it constantly.

 

That's it

I might sound like an extreme pessimist and Groundspeak-hater but I'm not. I love Groundspeak and the world of Geocaching that they have created for us. I can't thank them enough. However, there is obviously room for improvements and some minor tweaks to make the geocaching experience more complete. And these are my thoughts.

 

Please discuss or bring your own thoughts to the table.

 

-------------------------

 

EDIT: This is kind of what I mean, http://www.geocaching.se/

Edited April 26, 2011 by Viscus

[+Isonzo Karst]

A quick response to some of the stuff in your post

 

facebook links were on the site and were removed. Not much explanation on that... the site struggles to keep up with traffic, it may have been a "number of hits" issue?

 

the site has changed its look a number of times, and continues to.

 

I couldn't agree more on the astonishingly clunky navigation, the lack of organization, no site map, no search, the confusing nomenclature (profile/ private public, account ?? ) (cache type: Unknown on PQ generator and cache report form, Mystery by popular use, and Puzzle in the guidelines).

I've been using the site a long time, and I still find myself on the wrong profile page ..

 

It's all legacy, first this got added, then that....

 

the maps used to be quite rudimentary. I remember "before google maps". The lists made sense at one time.

 

Geocaching.com grows at about 30% a year, and continues to operate for free. Always a bit staff short. I'm hopeful that it'll get better.

 

not everyone agrees with you about the social part>>> But attending events is the main social grease of geocaching.

[+Sol seaker]

I see the main problem here is that you perceive this to be another facebook site.

 

I'm not surprised that you admit you are a facebook addict. This is not another facebook.

 

This is not a social networking site at all.

You complain about how it does not measure up as a social networking site, well it's not meant to.

I wouldn't want it to.

 

If you want social networking go to facebook.

If you want to go geocaching, go to geocaching.com.

 

Do you make the same complaints about your bank websites? Of course not. It's not a social networking site.

Neither is this.

 

There are tools here to connect with other people, but suffice it to say, that there are good reasons for things like having to go through the site to email people. Those are safeguards that have been put in place for good reasons. We like them and need them there. You are new here so you did not see how those things evolved and why they are needed. I don't want to get into a long lesson here. Just know there are reasons.

 

This is not facebook and we don't want it to be facebook.

 

If you want facebook, go to facebook.

 

This is for geocaching.

[+t4e]

 

Please discuss or bring your own thoughts to the table.

 

i would gladly do so, but your choice of font makes it extremely hard to read, small writing ain't saving bandwidth you know

[+StarBrand]

...

This is not facebook and we don't want it to be facebook.

 

If you want facebook, go to facebook.

 

This is for geocaching.

Could not have said it better.

 

While I certainly see some navigation and search issues - I just don't think things are nearly as bad as the op.

[+Relheok]

As a newer cacher, GPX'er, etc. I feel his pain. There is much room for improvement to help the novice, but like anything you learn to use the site. Just like that old Ford you had to pump the gas, wiggle the positive cable to the starter every once in a while just to start her.

[+mtn-man]

I would address the social networking bit. I have some friends that have spooled every single find they make to Facebook. I put them on ignore there. If they did a 50 to 75 cache run day, all I saw was the auto-generated "Found GCWHTEVR". I don't care about every cache you find nor do I want it clogging up my news feed. I do like those that take the time to say they are heading out to a cool area for the day, then post pictures later on with personal notes about the day. That is easier to follow, much more interesting overall, and I didn't have to look at an impersonal "Found GCWHTEVR" over and over and over. Those typically get zero likes and zero comments. That says something about that type of feed. To me, auto-generation ends up being noise. With 500+ friends, I like more personal feed information than auto-generated noise.

 

Twitter spooling exists right now. http://www.geocaching.com/my/sharing.aspx

 

You have a friends page too. http://www.geocaching.com/my/myfriends.aspx You cannot do much at this time, but it does give you "vitals". You can email them from there too.

 

Both of those are on that right side string of stuff on the "Your Profile" page.

 

For some, geocaching is a solitary game. They don't want you to bombard them with messaging. That must be factored in. They probably don't have Facebook accounts by choice. I don't see the need for GC.com to reinvent the social network. I would rather them focus on making the listing service of geocaches more functional. Facebook and Twitter own online, virtual social networking. I think the focus on this site is best said right here.

 

But attending events is the main social grease of geocaching.

 

I will point out that you changed the text style and size on your post? It makes it small and the text is too condensed to read easily. Just sayin'.

 

Over the weekend I took a news story on VHS tape and converted it to DVD. It was funny to see the 2001 version of the site. It has changed and seems to continue to do so. Some of your stuff regarding navigation is right on and hopefully that take some of these types of suggestions and consider them and better ways navigate the site.

[Viscus]

I see the main problem here is that you perceive this to be another facebook site.

 

I'm not surprised that you admit you are a facebook addict. This is not another facebook.

 

This is not a social networking site at all.

You complain about how it does not measure up as a social networking site, well it's not meant to.

I wouldn't want it to.

 

If you want social networking go to facebook.

If you want to go geocaching, go to geocaching.com.

 

Do you make the same complaints about your bank websites? Of course not. It's not a social networking site.

Neither is this.

 

There are tools here to connect with other people, but suffice it to say, that there are good reasons for things like having to go through the site to email people. Those are safeguards that have been put in place for good reasons. We like them and need them there. You are new here so you did not see how those things evolved and why they are needed. I don't want to get into a long lesson here. Just know there are reasons.

 

This is not facebook and we don't want it to be facebook.

 

If you want facebook, go to facebook.

 

This is for geocaching.

 

Your post worries me a lot on several levels.

 

I don't know what part of "social network" seems alien to you, but Geocaching.com is already a social network. However, it's clunky, hard to navigate and not particularily meaningful for that particular purpose. This is something - again, my personal opinion - that can be greatly improved to modern social network standards; Not replace facebook.

 

I referred to facebook only two times: The first time was for a search bar to find friends on the site. The second time was when I requested Facebook-integration with cache-logs. At no other point did I request that Geocaching.com should be molded in the same form as Facebook.com. What I do request, however, is that development of the social network should be greatly improved for good reasons.

 

But, this is only one issue of the many I adressed in the original post. Take some time and read it thoroughly please.

 

 

Please discuss or bring your own thoughts to the table.

 

i would gladly do so, but your choice of font makes it extremely hard to read, small writing ain't saving bandwidth you know

The text looked fine to me - maybe I did have Chrome zoom in the webpage. I have removed the font now.

 

Geocaching.com grows at about 30% a year, and continues to operate for free. Always a bit staff short. I'm hopeful that it'll get better.

Would it be wrong of me to mention that they might easily include some subtle ads on the site? That would generate money (probably a lot, seeing to the user base) and the site would still run for free. I'm not referring to the big popup ads that sits in your face like laser-eye-surgery, but perhaps smaller banners some of these: http://www.banner-ad.co.uk/images/common-banner-ad-sizes.gif

 

Groundspeak could easily make ads for GPS-devices or other hiking/geocaching-gear and thus the ads would not seem out of place with the website. There might be a reason for not involving ads, but I currently see it as a top-of-the-head solution. Maybe someone has an answer.

Edited April 26, 2011 by Viscus

[+KBfamily]

...

This is not facebook and we don't want it to be facebook.

 

If you want facebook, go to facebook.

 

This is for geocaching.

Could not have said it better.

 

While I certainly see some navigation and search issues - I just don't think things are nearly as bad as the op.

 

Putting aside the whole Facebook thing, the issues brought up in this forum post are very valid. If the website was easier to navigate, newbies wouldn't have as many questions as they do. Mistakes and things considered "bad form" would not happen as often if the website was better organized and more user friendly.

 

I have needed to look up cachers before and this website makes it very difficult. I have had cachers sign the log of the TB hotel that I have yet not sign the website log or document that they took TB's. After an appropriate amount of time, I try to track them down to kindly remind them to document their visit to the hotel and it is NOT easy.

 

What about an area on the website that tries to match up local cachers for assistance or if you are looking for a caching buddy? Don't say to post it in the forum...newbies don't even know the forum is there...

 

Whenever I see that someone in my area is new to caching, I send them an email and offer my help if they ever want it. There should be something on the website that could assist in providing a service like this.

 

I remember struggling to get the answers I needed and I am not stupid. I use my computer quite a bit and have three college degrees yet was frustrated and confused at times when I first started caching. I feel for the non-computer savvy newbie cacher....this website has got to leave them overwhelmed. Forget asking a question on the forums....you guys eat newbies for lunch.

 

Don't be defensive about what the post writer is saying. Try being open-minded and perhaps this newbie's fresh look at things could make life easier for all of us.

 

So, in typical geocache forum style, which one of you would like to add a snarky, cruel, unnecessary remark about what I have said? Go ahead, you know you want to....

Edited April 26, 2011 by KBfamily

[+StarBrand]

...

Your post worries me a lot on several levels.

 

I don't know what part of "social network" seems alien to you, but Geocaching.com is already a social network. However, it's clunky, hard to navigate and not particularily meaningful for that particular purpose. This is something - again, my personal opinion - that can be greatly improved to modern social network standards; Not replace facebook.

 

I referred to facebook only two times: The first time was for a search bar to find friends on the site. The second time was when I requested Facebook-integration with cache-logs. At no other point did I request that Geocaching.com should be molded in the same form as Facebook.com. What I do request, however, is that development of the social network should be greatly improved for good reasons.

 

But, this is only one issue of the many I adressed in the original post. Take some time and read it thoroughly please.

Fair enough....however....

 

I really do not care to have any kind of "modern social networking" standards here. I prefer Geocaching Events to be my Social Networking.

 

I do not use Facebook. Do not want to use Facebook. Do not care about Facebook. Don't use any such Social Networking site. Don't 'friend' strangers and prefer the humble small circle of physical beings that I on am privileged enough to call friends. I use a webcam to see and speak with my far away family and friends or a phone when that is more handy. I don't need a constant feed of other folks information and I don't need comments on my every aspect of Geocaching including photos, log critique, forum post critique and choice of travel bugs. The find logs are enough - thank you. Look, I am glad you find Computerized social networking to be charming and your thing - just don't force all of us to 'join' in because you expect to see it everywhere.

[Viscus]

Look, I am glad you find Computerized social networking to be charming and your thing - just don't force all of us to 'join' in because you expect to see it everywhere.

Let's break down what I wrote one more time...

 

I want Geocaching.com to have the following:

• 
   
  
• Ease of finding other geocachers
  
• IM and PM messaging
  
• Ease of navigation
  
• Improved profiles
  

 

That's it.

 

Not too bad is it? If you still think it's too much like Facebook, I suppose you're not really the social-networking guy. Nothing wrong with that, but to argue that no one should have the commonly accepted option of instant communication across the webs, simply because you do not wish to be part of it, is quite narrow. If you do not wish to use any social network, it's entirely up to you. I doubt it would ruin your geocaching fun.

Edited April 26, 2011 by Viscus

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Hmmmmm.....

 

Must agree with other posts about the "social network" factor.

Things such as events are the grease that makes geocaching what it is, it also is the glue that holds the geocaching community together.

 

Quite different than "knowing" people only as a mass of electrons on a supposed "social networking" program. I personally object any linking of geocaching to facebook at any level. Seeing a link icon to it makes me shudder. I shan't address it further, as you probably can read into my opinion on that matter.

 

I will agree that the site does need to be a bit (quite a bit) more user-friendly. Newcomers have a difficult time in finding needed information about geocaching needs/requirements/guidelines. I still stumble a bit with the site occasionally.

 

Most all else of what you griped about is nonsense. "Friends" is an easy set-up, as is emailing them. The email technique THROUGH the website itself I feel is necessary and is as it should be.

 

Lastly.... I certainly would like to hear the rest of your "several levels" disagreement with Sol Seakers' post. I, for one, am in sync with his post.

[+t4e]

 

I want Geocaching.com to have the following:

• 
   
  
• Ease of finding other geocachers
  
• IM and PM messaging
  
• Ease of navigation
  
• Improved profiles
  

 

That's it.

 

 

all your requests are already in place, see bellow or take some time to explore the site more

 

 

1. The social network and communication

I am so grateful that it's possible to register as a user on the site and share my list of found/placed caches. But the gratefulness ends there as the other functions, such as adding a friend or communicating or even finding other players, are a hassle compared to other social networks.

Why is the option "Accept friend requests" unchecked as standard? Why do I have to first enter my profile, then click an obscure search-link down in the sub-menu to find another player? Why are there so many pages to get basic information (I believe there are 3 different pages to check my Cache-finds, which could probably be merged into one)? Why do I have to send an e-mail via the site in order to communicate with other players?

 

While this may qualify as a “social network” its NOT in the same way as Facebook is, and it will never be.

 

The option "Accept friend requests" is unchecked because if it was automatic people will complain…so this is a case of damned if you do damned if you don’t…but at the end of the day I want to have control over that feature, I don’t want GC assuming I want to befriend every person that contacts me through my profile

 

1. The social network and communication

The heart of the problem is that it is difficult to connect with other players via the official website. There should be a searchbar at the top of the site (as on Facebook) where you can easily find other members. There should be an integrated PM and IM-system. There should be better, simpler but more-informative profiles and caching-information.

 

The social aspect of Geocaching is almost as important as the rest of this hobby and in it's current state, it's deeply, absurdly outdated compared to almost any other social network.

 

Very easy to find other players right from your profile, also there is an email option there too or you can message them from their own profile, if they allowed that feature

 

 

 

 

2. User-friendlyness and information

Let's admit it, the site is a rather clunky experience before you "get the hang of it". But should we really need to "get the hang of it" in order to enjoy the experience? The list of improvements are basically endless and I would like to adress a few of them.

 

So is every new website when you first get on it

 

 

Hide and seek a cache - answer me this: Why does this button bring me to a declaration form? Really, anyone who has tried the official maps knows that it provides better, faster information, more easily (through a simple search bar) and more efficiently. Why isn't the maps the first-hand-option instead of a weird form and list of closeby geocaches? Hm.

 

What exactly is your problem with that page?

Its meant to give you several options to search for a cache

If you want better results enter your home coordinates and use the link from your profile page “Search for nearest geocaches from your home location (filter out finds)”

 

 

 

Profiles are a mess. It's basically a list of text barely without separation and while it fills it purpose, it's boring and unengaging to feast your eyes on. I've seen there are some ways to manipulate the profile by adding external material such as stats from www.logicweave.com but that does not count. All the top information (Member Since, Last Visit, Status etc..) could be in a top- or side-border. Anything but plain text, black on white. Also, why does the profile pictures have to be that minimal? Add some code to automatically resize and compress them (maybe even crop).

 

When I press "Your profile" in the left-side menu, it brings me to my private profile, or something, with my latest logs. I can choose to go to my public profile from here. But the thing that particularily irritates me on this page, is that there are *counts* literally 12 different menus for stuff! Why? There's the ordinary menu to the left, some weird top menu, and a batch of micro-menus with random content to the right. Why not simply bring me to my "Public profile" when i actually click "Your profile"? The un-related stuff could be placed elsewhere.

 

Lack of sub-menus. The "Resources" page is basically a stand-in for a submenu. Also, why is the page called "resources" when it's obviously an information-central for geocaching beginners? Anyways, clicking on the "Resources" tab in the menu could instead bring up a submenu below it in which we could review the content of that page. This goes for all of the other pages/tabs. There is actually submenus at the bottom of the screen but who either thinks of going there or actually goes there in order to navigate the site?

 

There is more but I want to keep this post short(ened).

 

I don’t give a rats a** for pages to be a “feast for my eyes” on my profile….it will only make the site slower than already is….i want utility/simplicity from the page not useless pretty looking stuff

 

4. Other stuff

 

Facebook integration. It would be great for me, as an addict-Facebook-user, to be able to share my Geocaching logs on my public facebook profile. Facebook integration is available with approximately everything else in the world, I'm suprised Geocaching doesn't have that option (yet). Or maybe I've missed out on it.

 

NO…just plain dadgum NO

Edited April 26, 2011 by t4e

[+BlueDeuce]

I would mind seeing some of the links I use more prominently displayed, like PQs, but I'm not sure if we've reached the level of needing that other stuff. I really haven't had a problem contacting StarBrand whenever I needed to.

[+dfx]

I agree with some (but not all) of the points you make, but can't be bothered to go through them one by one. I do need to comment on that though:

 

... compared to other social networks.

 

It's not a social network site. Period.

[+Team Taran]

I do agree that there are navigation issues. I do not agree that it needs to be easier to locate nearby cachers. My location is listed in my profile because I need it to effectively use the site to cache. I do not want random strangers to be able to locate me. There are ways to find cachers and they can be contacted by email. I don't want people to be able to be easily connect my geocaching identity to my real world self. If the site made this easier I might have to abandon my current account or perhaps the hobby all together. I don't want people I don't know to be able to instant message me or chat. There are plenty of ways for people who know each other to communicate in this way. Meet people in person at events, send them a friend request and then communicate as you choose.

Team Taran

[+Rckhnd]

Wow. That's a lot.

 

As a newbie myself, the only beef I have about the site is that once logged in, I have to log in again to be in the forums. Seems to me that once I'm logged in, the forum link should automatically sign me in.

[+BlueDeuce]

Wow. That's a lot.

 

As a newbie myself, the only beef I have about the site is that once logged in, I have to log in again to be in the forums. Seems to me that once I'm logged in, the forum link should automatically sign me in.

 

They are on separate servers, but you should be able to click the remember me option so you don't have to keep signing in to either one.

[Viscus]

Hmmmmm.....

 

Must agree with other posts about the "social network" factor.

Things such as events are the grease that makes geocaching what it is, it also is the glue that holds the geocaching community together.

 

Quite different than "knowing" people only as a mass of electrons on a supposed "social networking" program. I personally object any linking of geocaching to facebook at any level. Seeing a link icon to it makes me shudder. I shan't address it further, as you probably can read into my opinion on that matter.

 

I will agree that the site does need to be a bit (quite a bit) more user-friendly. Newcomers have a difficult time in finding needed information about geocaching needs/requirements/guidelines. I still stumble a bit with the site occasionally.

 

Most all else of what you griped about is nonsense. "Friends" is an easy set-up, as is emailing them. The email technique THROUGH the website itself I feel is necessary and is as it should be.

 

Lastly.... I certainly would like to hear the rest of your "several levels" disagreement with Sol Seakers' post. I, for one, am in sync with his post.

I do not see how a better social connectivity on the website would in any way damage Events? I would argue that they would generate yet more events as it would be increasingly easier to organize them, invite members and reach out to new poeple. This is what happened to Facebook; I am constantly updated with new info on get-togethers, parties, campaigns, events and other stuff. Just to clarify this in particular, I have nothing against events or any IRL social activity nor would I wish them to discontinue..

 

Friends is not an "easy" setup, no. Let's go through the steps: 1) Your friend registers, 2) He must uncheck the "Accept invites" box in his settings, 3) You then friend-request him, 4) He then receivs an e-mail with a link that takes him to another page where he can 5) choose whether or not to accept his friend. While it is not "difficult", it's a hassle no matter how you twist and turn it. The actual system should be like this) 1) Your friend registers, 2) You send him a friend request, 3) He gets a notice where he answers "Accept" or "Decline". To even go through the trouble of switching to an external site in order to even read the request is quite unnecessary.

 

Feel free to explain what other part of my post is nonsense, as you have full freedom to disagree.

[+dfx]

Oh, and this:

 

Why do I have to send an e-mail via the site in order to communicate with other players?

 

Why not? Why should I need to check for personal messages on yet another website? I can already send and receive messages, that's exactly what email has been invented for, so why reinvent the wheel?

 

And an integrated IM system, seriously? There's already too many different IM programs, protocols and networks around, why have yet another one? If I wanted to use something that integrates all that into one site, I'd use facebook. But that's exactly one of the reasons why I don't.

[Viscus]

1) all your requests are already in place, see bellow or take some time to explore the site more

 

2) While this may qualify as a “social network” its NOT in the same way as Facebook is, and it will never be.

 

3) The option "Accept friend requests" is unchecked because if it was automatic people will complain…

 

4) Very easy to find other players right from your profile, also there is an email option there too or you can message them from their own profile, if they allowed that feature

 

5) So is every new website when you first get on it

 

6) What exactly is your problem with that page? Its meant to give you several options to search for a cache

If you want better results enter your home coordinates and use the link from your profile page “Search for nearest geocaches from your home location (filter out finds)”

 

7) I don’t give a rats a** for pages to be a “feast for my eyes” on my profile….it will only make the site slower than already is….i want utility/simplicity from the page not useless pretty looking stuff

 

8) NO…just plain dadgum NO

Okay, let's see what we've got here...

 

1. IM and PM messanging are not in place and, like I wrote, the rest needs improvement.

 

2. Uh, no, I'm with you on that one and I doubt anyone else would argue against it.

 

3. I don't follow you. Why would it be on "automatic"?

 

4. I never wrote it's difficult, I wrote that it's generally a hassle. Which it is.

 

5. Most modern websites have easy navigation and access. This one does not.

 

6. I answer this in the very same paragraph: The maps are better and should be the first hand choice. The form is basically unnecessary. If you still need the various ways to find caches, they could easily be merged with the maps and give you faster, easier and better access.

 

7. Edit: The profiles could still be improved from having the user make all the info himself and provide better starting info than "Member Since" or "Last Activity (on website)". Hometown? Age? Caching-group? Finds? Cache-preferences? Of course, it's completely subjective, but I think the profiles could need an overhaul as well.

 

8. Facebook-integration would have zero effect on Geocaching.com. It means that you can send logs to your facebook profile to share with friends and family. It does not mean anything else.

Edited April 26, 2011 by Viscus

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Oh, and this:

 

Why do I have to send an e-mail via the site in order to communicate with other players?

 

Why not? Why should I need to check for personal messages on yet another website? I can already send and receive messages, that's exactly what email has been invented for, so why reinvent the wheel?

 

And an integrated IM system, seriously? There's already too many different IM programs, protocols and networks around, why have yet another one? If I wanted to use something that integrates all that into one site, I'd use facebook. But that's exactly one of the reasons why I don't.

This coming from someone who has a MySpace link in his signature says a lot.

[+dfx]

This coming from someone who has a MySpace link in his signature says a lot.

 

Oh thanks for reminding me, I meant to take it off. Shows how much I look at my own sig, heh. Don't get the wrong idea, I never really used myspace, especially not for "social networking". I probably have a ton of unread messages in that inbox over there.

Edited April 26, 2011 by dfx

[+northernpenguin]

Oh, and this:

 

Why do I have to send an e-mail via the site in order to communicate with other players?

 

Why not? Why should I need to check for personal messages on yet another website? I can already send and receive messages, that's exactly what email has been invented for, so why reinvent the wheel?

 

And an integrated IM system, seriously? There's already too many different IM programs, protocols and networks around, why have yet another one? If I wanted to use something that integrates all that into one site, I'd use facebook. But that's exactly one of the reasons why I don't.

 

I don't need yet-another-IM account to be constantly signed into.

One of the things that irks me on Facebook - yes I USE social networks - is the integrated IM. I don't want to have someone try to ask me questions about my caches, or someone else's caches while I'm logging my finds. I hate when people send me messages on Facebook, when I've already got an email address. It usually means when I log into Facebook I see a series of messages from that person that start out friendly then migrate toward ticked off that I'm not responding to the message I didn't see three weeks ago.

 

My IM address is on my profile page, and you can email me via the site. That's plenty.

 

As far as auto-scanning for friends from other social networks ---- OP: have you noticed we're using nicknames on this site, not real names? Some people would rather cache anonymously. They don't connect their geocaching profile to their real name and carry on having fun their own way. We don't need site specific tools for social networks to thrive around the site. There are *huge* groups on Facebook. I follow about 100 cachers on Twitter, and they follow back. My home province has over a dozen geocaching organizations, with forums and websites. It's already happening, thriving and not mandatory for those who would rather not.

[Viscus]

Why not? Why should I need to check for personal messages on yet another website? I can already send and receive messages, that's exactly what email has been invented for, so why reinvent the wheel?

 

And an integrated IM system, seriously? There's already too many different IM programs, protocols and networks around, why have yet another one? If I wanted to use something that integrates all that into one site, I'd use facebook. But that's exactly one of the reasons why I don't.

Alright, you seem to have some large misinterpretations about the current state of social network websites in general. Let me explain: IM and PM messages refers to Instant Messages (such as a guestbook on your profile) and Private Messages (a prive messaging service, also on your profile).

 

This means that you do not have to send e-mails, with your own adress, through geocaching.com, to another e-mail adress, so that the person you PM'ed have to go to his mail, log in, find the message there, and repeat this ordeal to reply. This means you can simply browse to his profile, and contact him there. Without the use of e-mail whatsoever. It's not reinventing the wheel, my friend.

 

"Why have another IM system?" Well, for starters, to connect with other players on a common ground: Geocaching.com. Secondly, to avoid using external sources or third-party software that requires another registration, another installation, and another piece of platform to work with. Tell me this: Why would you prefer to have many different accounts on many different sites, for a purpose that would be easier to forfill if they were simply integrated into this one platform?

[Viscus]

My IM address is on my profile page, and you can email me via the site. That's plenty.

Still talking about Facebook here or do you mean your Geocaching profile? I did not find any IM adress (unless you've hidden it in your personal text - in that case, it's third party right?) and e-mailing could be an option besides integrated PM messaging. Which would be more accessible.

 

As far as auto-scanning for friends from other social networks ---- OP: have you noticed we're using nicknames on this site, not real names? Some people would rather cache anonymously. They don't connect their geocaching profile to their real name and carry on having fun their own way. We don't need site specific tools for social networks to thrive around the site. There are *huge* groups on Facebook. I follow about 100 cachers on Twitter, and they follow back. My home province has over a dozen geocaching organizations, with forums and websites. It's already happening, thriving and not mandatory for those who would rather not.

I agree one hundred percent, but I never mentioned "auto-scanning for friends". Like I wrote in the starting post, I referred to being able to share my caching-logs on facebook. Like I automatically share my game experiences from my PS3, or my jogging rounds with my iPhone. Needless to say, it should be optional for those of us who use Facebook.

[+northernpenguin]

 

This means that you do not have to send e-mails, with your own adress, through geocaching.com, to another e-mail adress, so that the person you PM'ed have to go to his mail, log in, find the message there, and repeat this ordeal to reply. This means you can simply browse to his profile, and contact him there. Without the use of e-mail whatsoever. It's not reinventing the wheel, my friend.

 

 

You are not required to expose your email address when contacting another player from the site. When you contact another player, you can show your email address if desired or not.

You know how often I check for PMs on the Groundspeak forums.....? Never. I already have an email address that players can contact me at.

[+nittanycopa]

I agree the message system - contacting and adding other users as friends - is very clunky. The messages are pretty vital, IMO, regardless of whether this is perceived as a social activity or no. Messages help us to keep in contact with cache owners, report problems, etc.

 

The Facebook thing...best way to go about this is to add it as an optional dimension in the profile. It shouldn't be integrated with geocaching.com in any manner. Users should be able to add social "contact" options, though, as they can on any other similar profile. And I'm sure that'll still rile up the 'ole anti-Facebook crowd here.

 

You don't use Facebook? Good for you, would you like a cookie for defying the social norm?

[+t4e]

 

Okay, let's see what we've got here...

 

1. IM and PM messanging are not in place and, like I wrote, the rest needs improvement.

 

why do you want IM or PM, what exactly is wrong with email?

 

3. I don't follow you. Why would it be on "automatic"?

 

uuhm read your own post again, my "automatic" referred to the fact that i don't want it to automatically be checked....i wanted it unchecked

 

4. I never wrote it's difficult, I wrote that it's generally a hassle. Which it is.

 

not as far as i'm concerned

 

5. Most modern websites have easy navigation and access. This one does not.

 

i find this site easy to to use, please show me an example of one of those modern marvels of web design

 

6. I answer this in the very same paragraph: The maps are better and should be the first hand choice. The form is basically unnecessary. If you still need the various ways to find caches, they could easily be merged with the maps and give you faster, easier and better access.

 

in case you didn't notice the maps are a mess for quite a while now

 

as i said that form has a different purpose and tbh i don't want it crammed in into the maps

 

 

7. It was a figure of speech and I simply meant that in their current state, profiles are pretty much useless besides the text you type into your personal presentation. Which is nothing but black text on white backround. It could be simplistic without being mind-numbingly boring. I see no interest in browsing other players profiles as it's a hassle and most pointless - especially as many people seem to agree with me by not typing anything into them..

 

yes, and that black and white text is enough...if i want to put something there i can and i did what i deemed necessary

 

what exactly do you want to see there that you can't add on your own?

 

there has been enough complaining from the "OMG you're invading my privacy" group that simplicity and personal choice is the answer

 

do you know that some people don't even want you to be able to see their profile, their finds, they complained about Statistics tab when was introduced...and the list goes on

 

 

8. Facebook-integration would have zero effect on Geocaching.com. It means that you can send logs to your facebook profile to share with friends and family. It does not mean anything else.

 

i simply don't want to see such option in my profile and GC staff wasting time in implementing such integration when there are other more important/useful features that need attention

 

 

I do not see how a better social connectivity on the website would in any way damage Events? I would argue that they would generate yet more events as it would be increasingly easier to organize them, invite members and reach out to new poeple. This is what happened to Facebook; I am constantly updated with new info on get-togethers, parties, campaigns, events and other stuff. Just to clarify this in particular, I have nothing against events or any IRL social activity nor would I wish them to discontinue..

 

 

pay $30/year to become Premium Member and you can set up Instant Notifications, one of which can be for Events, you can even send them to your cell

 

...there, you'll be all update it

Edited April 26, 2011 by t4e

[+roziecakes]

Hold up... I have better things to say...

Edited April 26, 2011 by nymphnsatyr

[+northernpenguin]

My IM address is on my profile page, and you can email me via the site. That's plenty.

Still talking about Facebook here or do you mean your Geocaching profile? I did not find any IM adress (unless you've hidden it in your personal text - in that case, it's third party right?) and e-mailing could be an option besides integrated PM messaging. Which would be more accessible.

 

As far as auto-scanning for friends from other social networks ---- OP: have you noticed we're using nicknames on this site, not real names? Some people would rather cache anonymously. They don't connect their geocaching profile to their real name and carry on having fun their own way. We don't need site specific tools for social networks to thrive around the site. There are *huge* groups on Facebook. I follow about 100 cachers on Twitter, and they follow back. My home province has over a dozen geocaching organizations, with forums and websites. It's already happening, thriving and not mandatory for those who would rather not.

I agree one hundred percent, but I never mentioned "auto-scanning for friends". Like I wrote in the starting post, I referred to being able to share my caching-logs on facebook. Like I automatically share my game experiences from my PS3, or my jogging rounds with my iPhone. Needless to say, it should be optional for those of us who use Facebook.

 

Look here. Fifth line down. Yes, it's a third party who handle IM for many years. Since before Geocaching started actually.

I don't need to register a whole bunch of my friends all over again over here, then wait for an iPhone IM client from Groundspeak. I just use MSN and enjoy support for that platform on every device I own.

[+dfx]

Alright, you seem to have some large misinterpretations about the current state of social network websites in general. Let me explain: IM and PM messages refers to Instant Messages (such as a guestbook on your profile) and Private Messages (a prive messaging service, also on your profile).

 

This means that you do not have to send e-mails, with your own adress, through geocaching.com, to another e-mail adress, so that the person you PM'ed have to go to his mail, log in, find the message there, and repeat this ordeal to reply. This means you can simply browse to his profile, and contact him there. Without the use of e-mail whatsoever. It's not reinventing the wheel, my friend.

I know my terms quite well, thank you, I'm quite certain that I've been using the internet much longer than you have. I think you're the one who's got it mixed up. Emails are private messages. It's the oldest internet application in existance. If I want to send a private mssage to somebody, I send an email.

 

You may not be aware of the fact, but not everything on the internet is a website. You do not have to log in to your email to read them, you can just use an appropriate program on your PC, phone, TV, microwave or whatever. Emails appear on my screen at the very instant they're delivered, all the time, and my phone beeps at the same instant. If you think you need to log in somewhere seperately just to read your email, then that's really your problem, not the website's. It's easy to fix that, just use the appropriate tools.

 

"Why have another IM system?" Well, for starters, to connect with other players on a common ground: Geocaching.com. Secondly, to avoid using external sources or third-party software that requires another registration, another installation, and another piece of platform to work with. Tell me this: Why would you prefer to have many different accounts on many different sites, for a purpose that would be easier to forfill if they were simply integrated into this one platform?

 

Are you saying that most people don't already use some kind of IM application and would have to sign up somewhere just for that? I don't think so.

 

Again, IM systems aren't websites. They're programs that connect to networks. I'm simultaneously online in 7 different IM networks, all from my PC and all without ever having to go to a website. Messages sent through a website are not instant messages, because I will not receive them instantly if I don't happen to be using that website at that moment.

[Viscus]

You are not required to expose your email address when contacting another player from the site. When you contact another player, you can show your email address if desired or not.

You know how often I check for PMs on the Groundspeak forums.....? Never. I already have an email address that players can contact me at.

It doesn't matter if I expose my e-mail adress or not, the system is still unnecessarily intricate. Like I've written about one zillion times already, user-friendlyness and accessibility is important (for ANY website) and e-mail contacting could still remain optional. I personally hate to have to go to my e-mail just to check for a message from a site which could have had an integrated PM-system instead.

 

But requesting ease of access seems to be taboo here.

[+Panther&Pine]

Being that I play with dbs' and websites for a living, this one isn't too bad. The two things that bug me are the fact that the maps don't have a profile variable (if they did they'd remember what boxes you had ticked or unticked) and that so many things open a new window not a new tab.

 

I've got to be one of the few people that spent hours poking around the site before starting to cache. They layout is odd and the links are often in strange places but, that is just the party quirk of the site.

[+Ike 13]

Let's break down what I wrote one more time...

 

I want Geocaching.com to have the following:

• 
   
  
• Ease of finding other geocachers
  
• IM and PM messaging
  
• Ease of navigation
  
• Improved profiles
  

 

1) I think there could be a LOT of improvement to finding another cachers profile. I like that idea

2) We have PM through the forums and can send emails. IM would be an unwanted addition to most people.

3) I can see how somethings are hard to locate. If you start on the my page most everything is there, but it sure could be streamlined a little better.

4) This is one thing that they have improved some over the last year, but there is no need for a full profile like facebook or myspace.

 

A lot of cachers do not want to share any personal info and would quit if some of these personal suggestions were adopted

 

Even though I use facebook I would stop logging if every log went straight to facebook. Well no I would create a fake facebook with no friends that I only logged into once for that.

[+northernpenguin]

You are not required to expose your email address when contacting another player from the site. When you contact another player, you can show your email address if desired or not.

You know how often I check for PMs on the Groundspeak forums.....? Never. I already have an email address that players can contact me at.

It doesn't matter if I expose my e-mail adress or not, the system is still unnecessarily intricate. Like I've written about one zillion times already, user-friendlyness and accessibility is important (for ANY website) and e-mail contacting could still remain optional. I personally hate to have to go to my e-mail just to check for a message from a site which could have had an integrated PM-system instead.

 

But requesting ease of access seems to be taboo here.

 

Right, and I personally hate having to go check a website for what is essentially an email. I get email all the time, and LIKE that it all comes in one mailbox. Rather than spending my evenings browsing from site to site to site in case I got a PM there.

[+Spraginator]

Why not? Why should I need to check for personal messages on yet another website? I can already send and receive messages, that's exactly what email has been invented for, so why reinvent the wheel?

 

And an integrated IM system, seriously? There's already too many different IM programs, protocols and networks around, why have yet another one? If I wanted to use something that integrates all that into one site, I'd use facebook. But that's exactly one of the reasons why I don't.

Alright, you seem to have some large misinterpretations about the current state of social network websites in general. Let me explain: IM and PM messages refers to Instant Messages (such as a guestbook on your profile) and Private Messages (a prive messaging service, also on your profile).

 

This means that you do not have to send e-mails, with your own adress, through geocaching.com, to another e-mail adress, so that the person you PM'ed have to go to his mail, log in, find the message there, and repeat this ordeal to reply. This means you can simply browse to his profile, and contact him there. Without the use of e-mail whatsoever. It's not reinventing the wheel, my friend.

 

"Why have another IM system?" Well, for starters, to connect with other players on a common ground: Geocaching.com. Secondly, to avoid using external sources or third-party software that requires another registration, another installation, and another piece of platform to work with. Tell me this: Why would you prefer to have many different accounts on many different sites, for a purpose that would be easier to forfill if they were simply integrated into this one platform?

 

viscus, You are not understanding what dfx is saying! They are saying that they do not want yet another inbox to check. By having messages go to your email, you are guaranteed to get them even if you havn't logged into geocaching.com. I know I can go months not logging in because life gets in the way. But if someone wants to ask me a question about a cache, if it goes to my email, I'll see it there.

 

I think you'll find/are finding that you are vastly outnumbered here. We do not want this to be a social networking site. The features on the site that are somewhat like some social networking sites are there out of necessity.

[Viscus]

bla bla bal

I hate to repeat myself, so let's agree to disagree.

Yes, it's a third party who handle IM for many years. Since before Geocaching started actually. I don't need to register a whole bunch of my friends all over again over here, then wait for an iPhone IM client from Groundspeak. I just use MSN and enjoy support for that platform on every device I own.

Wait, I need to grasp my mind around this... Are you implying, that I'm implying, that an integrated IM-system for Geocaching.com, or a guestbook for that matter, would FORCE you to quit using Live Messenger? I really don't see your message here. Maybe I misunderstood you. I've been using Facebook, with it's integrated IM-system plus log/guestbook for years, and during all that time I have always used Live Messenger on the side.

 

Where is the contradiction?

[+t4e]

You are not required to expose your email address when contacting another player from the site. When you contact another player, you can show your email address if desired or not.

You know how often I check for PMs on the Groundspeak forums.....? Never. I already have an email address that players can contact me at.

It doesn't matter if I expose my e-mail adress or not, the system is still unnecessarily intricate. Like I've written about one zillion times already, user-friendlyness and accessibility is important (for ANY website) and e-mail contacting could still remain optional. I personally hate to have to go to my e-mail just to check for a message from a site which could have had an integrated PM-system instead.

 

But requesting ease of access seems to be taboo here.

 

you got it all backwards lmao...so to you its easier to go visit a zillion websites to see if you have a PM rather than getting all messages in your email client?

 

where/what exactly do you do to access your email that is such a PITA?

[+dfx]

Wait, I need to grasp my mind around this... Are you implying, that I'm implying, that an integrated IM-system for Geocaching.com, or a guestbook for that matter, would FORCE you to quit using Live Messenger? I really don't see your message here. Maybe I misunderstood you.

 

I think you did. It means that an integrated IM system would force him to check for messages there, which is quite unnecessary as he already is checking for messages on another IM system.

[+StarBrand]

What exactly is wrong with email?? - you keep portraying it as a hassle.

 

I have it - it is open nearly all the time. Why should I have to log into the website to see additional messages?? I have IM - it too is open nearly all the time - my profile lists my IM address - feel free to use it. Not every site needs its own private messaging services when email and IM programs are so very universal already. No need to reinvent the wheel.

 

...and despite my little tirade against social networking sites - I think you failed to note that I did agree with your point about certain site navigation and the lack of a unified search feature for the site. That does need improvement.

[+t4e]

bla bla bal

 

I hate to repeat myself, so let's agree to disagree.

 

 

who gave you the right to replace the wording in my post?

[+JL_HSTRE]

I remember the short-lived Facebook integration of being able to Like events and caches. That went over like a lead zepplin.

 

I get the impression that unlike many other parts of the internet many geocachers want nothing to do with Facebook or Facebook integration. Many want to preserve a degree of anonimity; some don't event want other cachers to see their statistics. I also get the impression that Event attendance is actually a small portion of the geo-community. Many cachers want it to be a solitary activity or an activity with spouse, kids, or a few friends. They have no interest in interfacing with the geo-community beyond finding caches. Many geocachers don't want it to be easier for new cachers in their area to find them; they don't want to be found.

 

Many formal or informal regional geocaching organizations have websites with forums and/or active Facebook groups. If you want to meet more local cachers I would say those routes and/or go to local events.

 

And yes navigation on the site could be easier. Groundspeak has a long To Do list of site improvements and features they are working on. I'm sure another site makeover will happen eventually too.

[Viscus]

Right, and I personally hate having to go check a website for what is essentially an email. I get email all the time, and LIKE that it all comes in one mailbox. Rather than spending my evenings browsing from site to site to site in case I got a PM there.

Then shut off your inbox.

 

viscus, You are not understanding what dfx is saying! They are saying that they do not want yet another inbox to check. By having messages go to your email, you are guaranteed to get them even if you havn't logged into geocaching.com. I know I can go months not logging in because life gets in the way. But if someone wants to ask me a question about a cache, if it goes to my email, I'll see it there.

Thanks for making sense out of that. Valid Points, absolutely. But rather than objecting to anyone who would use this system, why not simply suggest improvements, such as the option to block people from posting PM to you, or an option to receive an e-mail notification about new PM's? These are common options for many/most websites.

 

I think you'll find/are finding that you are vastly outnumbered here. We do not want this to be a social networking site. The features on the site that are somewhat like some social networking sites are there out of necessity.

To clear things up, it is already a social networking site and the forum enforces this fact. All I want is those four small improvements and they could all be made optional. If you disagree then I fully respect your opinion.

[+dfx]

To clear things up, it is already a social networking site and the forum enforces this fact.

 

Uh, no. Forums, contact lists, address books, friend/buddy lists, etc etc, all have been around way before the term "social network" was even born.

[MisterEFQ]

6. I answer this in the very same paragraph: The maps are better and should be the first hand choice. The form is basically unnecessary. If you still need the various ways to find caches, they could easily be merged with the maps and give you faster, easier and better access.

 

Hardly. The majority of the time I want to search for caches near my home its how I look for them. Id rather not have a map load up first, but text that loads up fast.

 

And Ive never had a problem navigating this website from day one.

[+Scubasonic]

Viscus,

 

You have some points, here is mine if you want to really help pay for a Premium membership, along with many other members that use this site daily and don't pay, this will allow the powers at be to have more funds to address problems and upgrades when they come up. My question to you is, do you think this site runs for free someone has to pay for it.

 

Scubasonic

[+StarBrand]

To clear things up, it is already a social networking site and the forum enforces this fact.

 

Uh, no. Forums, contact lists, address books, friend/buddy lists, etc etc, all have been around way before the term "social network" was even born.

Waaaaayy before.

[+Panther&Pine]

To clear things up, it is already a social networking site and the forum enforces this fact.

 

Uh, no. Forums, contact lists, address books, friend/buddy lists, etc etc, all have been around way before the term "social network" was even born.

Waaaaayy before.

I'd almost argue that those existed before the modern internet did. Any UseNet buffs know?

[+The Chaos Crew]

I agree that the site can feel a little clunky, there is repetition of function, and some things are fairly counter-intuitive. But generally, the site does everything I want it to do, in a fairly efficient fashion.

 

In particular can I address the OP's suggestion that the "find a cache" screen should return a map, not the list of nearby caches.

 

That I really would NOT like.

 

When I'm already out in the field, then yes, a map of caches close by is useful.

 

But at home planning a caching trip, I don't really care so much where the caches are (as long as they are roughly within the area specified) - what I want to see at a glance is the sizes, difficulty/terrain ratings, who hid them, how old they are, and nowadays how many favourite points they have....that's how I choose a good cache to go out and find that day.

 

I couldn't get all that info from a map view.

 

I also don't see the point of the suggestion that clicking 'your profile' should take you straight to your public profile. Why do I need to see my public profile all the time? that's for me to give info to others, not to myself....surely?

 

Oh, and PLEASE don't introduce an instant messaging feature! ugh!

 

What I'd REALLY like to see is an improvement to the search facility - so for example I could search for a cache within 10 miles of home that had "star" in its title - rather than having to wade through all the "star" caches worldwide to find the one close to home that a friend told me was a great cache but I can't remember its full name.....

Edited April 26, 2011 by The Chaos Crew