Who's paying?

[+Clan Ferguson]

Are you paying for a membership?

I do! I have been reading the forums, particulaily the ones regarding Charter Membership. I have noticed an awful lot of people B----ing about the price tag. Or wanting more features, better service, premiums, toe waxings, etc, etc.

 

According to the about page there are less then 4000 active users. and I greatly doubt they all have Charter Memberships.

 

And if they did and they all paid the 30 I don't believe that would still be enough to cover annual operating cost (that includes manhours of programing and maintence).

 

And I also relize that most of us who post on the Forums do have a charter membership.

 

So my question is more of what do you think.

 

What percentage of active Users are paying?

 

And if the ground speak gang would like to chime in with actual numbers that would be great too.

But I don't expect it.

 

Cache On!!

 

James

"Big Dog"

-Clan Ferguson

 

[This message was edited by Clan Ferguson on July 03, 2002 at 09:21 AM.]

[+Trailtek]

I dont know about the 4000 number mentioned being accurate but on the main page of the Groundspeak forums it list 14,000+ people registered. That is for the board, and they may not all be active geocachers, but I would place the number higher then 4000 active.

 

I pay, dont get to cache much yet, but know that I am thoroughly hooked. I hike anyway, love gadgets, and will someday have the time to get out there and do some caching. To me supporting this site seems only fair for the recreation, including reading the forums, that I get.

 

And $30/year is less then a latte per month.

[+Trailtek]

I dont know about the 4000 number mentioned being accurate but on the main page of the Groundspeak forums it list 14,000+ people registered. That is for the board, and they may not all be active geocachers, but I would place the number higher then 4000 active.

 

I pay, dont get to cache much yet, but know that I am thoroughly hooked. I hike anyway, love gadgets, and will someday have the time to get out there and do some caching. To me supporting this site seems only fair for the recreation, including reading the forums, that I get.

 

And $30/year is less then a latte per month.

[+leatherman]

Looks like everyone agrees, less than twentyfive percent.

The rest are gargoyles, luking in the background.

LOL

 

Preperation, the first law to survival.

[BassoonPilot]

It's hardly a matter of opinion. Just ask Jeremy how many subscribing members there are. If he chooses to divulge that information, you will have your answer.

[+Clan Ferguson]

quote:

---

Originally posted by BassoonPilot:

Why is this a Poll? It's hardly a matter of opinion. Just ask Jeremy how many subscribing members there are. If he chooses to divulge that information, you will have your answer.

---

 

Because I am not necessarly intrerested in actual number(though those would be nice) but I am more curious as to what people think.

 

Cache On!!

 

James

"Big Dog"

-Clan Ferguson

[+Allen_L]

Start with

http://www.geocaching.com/profile/default.asp?A=2

 

bumping the number after the "A=" and count the ones with "Charter Member since" in the profile.

[Elias]

quote:

---

Originally posted by AllenLacy:

Start with

http://www.geocaching.com/profile/default.asp?A=2

 

bumping the number after the "A=" and count the ones with "Charter Member since" in the profile.

---

Please don't do this. Since the only realistic way to do this would be via an automated tool, the load placed on our database server would be way too high and could adversely affect the performance of the site for other users.

 

-Elias

[+Clan Ferguson]

If you follow the logic of Allenlacy and point of trailtrek it it would take forever to hand count thoese 14000+ as I am number 14596 and thats from June 2001.

 

So I think the 4000 comes from Active accounts. So I have replaced Registered with active.

 

and also (sounding like a broken record) I am more intrested in what people THINK reality is more then what Reality is.

 

I am testing the theroey (by observation) that Perception is reality

 

Thank you for your time.

 

Cache On!!

 

James

"Big Dog"

-Clan Ferguson

[AlphaOp]

I'm planning on starting to pay for this as well. (Espicially since the site has no ads or pop-ups. YAY!) If they open an off-topic thread, I'll be getting out my credit card ASAP! (END PLUG)

 

CODENAME: ALPHA OPERATOR

daedalus://govlink/secure/majestic/12.12.12/ops/throne/AO

MAJESTIC-12: THRONE G6 LEVEL AGENT

http://www.planetdeusex.com

[AlphaOp]

I'm planning on starting to pay for this as well. (Espicially since the site has no ads or pop-ups. YAY!) If they open an off-topic thread, I'll be getting out my credit card ASAP! (END PLUG)

 

CODENAME: ALPHA OPERATOR

daedalus://govlink/secure/majestic/12.12.12/ops/throne/AO

MAJESTIC-12: THRONE G6 LEVEL AGENT

http://www.planetdeusex.com

[+Seay me]

I pay and don't care one way or the other about the perks of the paying membership. $30 a year isn't anything. It's the least I can do to help support a website that is such an important part of an activity that my wife and I love to participate in so much.

 

Chip

[BassoonPilot]

I checked Dan Miller's Leaderboard, which indicates that 16,628 unique geocachers/usernames submitted logs in the past three months, with 8,905 having submitted logs in the past month.

 

If they submitted logs, they are obviously registered users of geocaching.com. I have no idea how many of them are paying members.

[+culpc]

I have to agree with Seay me. $30 is nothing to pay if it will keep the site going without the annoying popups!

 

Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son!

[+culpc]

I have to agree with Seay me. $30 is nothing to pay if it will keep the site going without the annoying popups!

 

Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son!

[+Scott Johnson]

Personally, I hate to pay for anything in life. But, the information I have gotten from this web site is worth a lot more than $ 30 to me. I think we owe some support to the person who is keeping it up and running.

 

I have also been pondering putting a $ 1 or some coin into caches when I find them. It's not much, but it helps the people who make a lot of them continue to do so.

 

[+Scott Johnson]

Personally, I hate to pay for anything in life. But, the information I have gotten from this web site is worth a lot more than $ 30 to me. I think we owe some support to the person who is keeping it up and running.

 

I have also been pondering putting a $ 1 or some coin into caches when I find them. It's not much, but it helps the people who make a lot of them continue to do so.

 

[+Moore9KSUcats]

We are charter members (gladly!) and took my brother geocaching when he was visiting us. He bought a yellow e-trex when he was here, and when he got home, he sent in his membership...before trying it on his own! I don't think he has gotten around to actually hunting for a cache on his own yet, but looks forward to it!

[+Draegon]

Unfortunately, I don't pay yet. Alas my family's needs for the funds comes first of course.

 

But if I have any chance or hope of getting all the suggestions/additions I've written to Jeremy about.

 

Draegon

Team Draegon

Cincinnati, Ohio USA

 

"To conquer without risk is to triumph without glory"

[Broncoholics]

We just love caching, and have 62 finds since

March of this year. Our family has found all 62

caches without a membership, and had a blast finding them.

 

At this time, I don't feel we need to pay a dime to look for the nearest caches. Don't get me wrong, our family would love a special membership, but we would rather use the money for gas so we can look for more treasures!

LOLOLOLOLOL

 

The Hughes Family

(upinyachit)

[Broncoholics]

We just love caching, and have 62 finds since

March of this year. Our family has found all 62

caches without a membership, and had a blast finding them.

 

At this time, I don't feel we need to pay a dime to look for the nearest caches. Don't get me wrong, our family would love a special membership, but we would rather use the money for gas so we can look for more treasures!

LOLOLOLOLOL

 

The Hughes Family

(upinyachit)

[+Scott Johnson]

Freeloader.

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by upinyachit:

We just love caching, and have 62 finds since

March of this year. Our family has found all 62

caches without a membership, and had a blast finding them.

 

At this time, I don't feel we need to pay a dime to look for the nearest caches. Don't get me wrong, our family would love a special membership, but we would rather use the money for gas so we can look for more treasures!

LOLOLOLOLOL

 

The Hughes Family

(upinyachit)

---

[+Scott Johnson]

Freeloader.

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by upinyachit:

We just love caching, and have 62 finds since

March of this year. Our family has found all 62

caches without a membership, and had a blast finding them.

 

At this time, I don't feel we need to pay a dime to look for the nearest caches. Don't get me wrong, our family would love a special membership, but we would rather use the money for gas so we can look for more treasures!

LOLOLOLOLOL

 

The Hughes Family

(upinyachit)

---

[Broncoholics]

Well, I tried to reply to your most wonderfully rude post, Scott, but geocache.com wouldn't let me type the "N" word on this site to tell you just where we go to find caches! There ARE other sites, ya know!

 

Just because we don't pay for a "la te da" charter membership doesn't mean we are freeloaders, jerk! I would think that there are others like us who don't pay for membership. Here's an example... This is a quote from the same topic by Draegon...

 

quote:

---

Unfortunately, I don't pay yet. Alas my family's needs for the funds comes first of course.

---

 

Gee, that couldn't be why we don't pay, ya think??

 

Pull the pole outa where the sun don't shine, buddy!

 

UPINYACHIT

[Broncoholics]

Well, I tried to reply to your most wonderfully rude post, Scott, but geocache.com wouldn't let me type the "N" word on this site to tell you just where we go to find caches! There ARE other sites, ya know!

 

Just because we don't pay for a "la te da" charter membership doesn't mean we are freeloaders, jerk! I would think that there are others like us who don't pay for membership. Here's an example... This is a quote from the same topic by Draegon...

 

quote:

---

Unfortunately, I don't pay yet. Alas my family's needs for the funds comes first of course.

---

 

Gee, that couldn't be why we don't pay, ya think??

 

Pull the pole outa where the sun don't shine, buddy!

 

UPINYACHIT

[Kobayashi]

What's next? Are you guys going to exchange coordinates and meet up for some fisticuffs to settle this??

 

I pay for my membership for one reason only: To see this site grow and to see this great family oriented activity grow.

 

Those of you that don't/can't pay are NOT freeloaders. Hopefully you contribute in other ways: Advocacy, helpful posts, recruitment etc...

 

Just my 2-cents.

[iryshe]

upinyachit - Feel free to use the services of the forum and the site, and I'm glad you're having fun. But try not to act like a jerk. This Nyah nyeah post comes up as trolling and childish.

 

ScottJohnson63 - I wouldn't call people who don't support the site through a charter membership as freeloaders. They just consider the current services of the site beneath their threshold of value. It's my responsibility to make that worthwhile.

 

Fortunately there are folks who do support the web site so the less fortunate can continue playing.

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

[+Scott Johnson]

I meant no disrespect. No sense of humor Amigo?

 

Common sense says that we need to pay for what we use in life. $ 30 is a bargain to keep this site up and running and growing.

 

I looked at your "N" site and it was a copy cat of this one. EXCEPT for one thing -- quality and number of caches. In my zip code search there was only 1 cache (or stash as they call it) listed within 12 miles. Here, I found 78 caches within the same radius.

 

I am sticking with geocaching.com

 

Again, no offense meant. Take my comments with a grain of salt and a smile.

[Broncoholics]

I will address both of you since you both have something to say.

 

First of all, Scott, if you were being humorous as you say, then why was "freeloader" the only word you typed? Seemed to me that you were being rude. I am the first one to laugh with a sense of humor! I never once said I had a problem with the charter membership fee. I cannot afford to pay a membership that I really don't have to pay right now. I should think that this wouldn't be a problem.

 

Second, Jeremy, obviously you have a problem with people not paying and I feel you are judging people by whether or not they pay by what you said. I was in no way acting like a jerk.

 

Quote from Jeremy:

 

quote:

---

I wouldn't call people who don't support the site through a charter membership as freeloaders. They just consider the current services of the site beneath their threshold of value

---

 

"They" meaning us less fortunate that aren't able to pay the charter fee.

 

How can you say that?? I think you are stepping over the line a little, don't you? I DO VALUE BOTH SITES FOR YOUR INFORMATION, AND I DO ENJOY BOTH AS WELL.

 

If you don't have a problem with the other site, then why can't I type the "N" word??

 

There are many many companies and sites that promote the same services as each other. This service is no different.

 

Upinyachit

[+sbell111]

Before we continue along this thread that has been hashed so frequently, please do a search.

 

That being said, I thought Jeremy was being very diplomatic in his answer. He did not suggest that you were not welcome. He actually said the opposite.

 

Before you take my head off, please see my posts in the previous 5000 or so threads on this issue.

 

Thanks.

 

Have fun, go caching. Pay if you can afford to and you find it appropriate to do so.

[Broncoholics]

When I commented on this thread earlier, I had nothing bad to say about anyone or any site. I frequent both sites all the time. I have contributed 5 of my own caches to both sites. To be told as a reply from Scott that we were freeloaders was rude and uncalled for. No one asked him to comment on something he has no idea about; the Hughes Family.

 

Jeremy was in no way being diplomatic about this; instead he proceeded to say that "we consider the site beneath our threshold of value." To me, that says the same thing Scott said! I never said I felt unwelcome. We've been members just as long as Scott.

 

I feel we do support this website, not with money, but with our caches. We happen to hide some dadgum good ones and will continue to do so.

 

I will not take your head off, SBell; you weren't rude. This is all about fun with your families, isn't it? That's all I expect; nothing more, nothing less.

 

Upinyachit

[Broncoholics]

When I commented on this thread earlier, I had nothing bad to say about anyone or any site. I frequent both sites all the time. I have contributed 5 of my own caches to both sites. To be told as a reply from Scott that we were freeloaders was rude and uncalled for. No one asked him to comment on something he has no idea about; the Hughes Family.

 

Jeremy was in no way being diplomatic about this; instead he proceeded to say that "we consider the site beneath our threshold of value." To me, that says the same thing Scott said! I never said I felt unwelcome. We've been members just as long as Scott.

 

I feel we do support this website, not with money, but with our caches. We happen to hide some dadgum good ones and will continue to do so.

 

I will not take your head off, SBell; you weren't rude. This is all about fun with your families, isn't it? That's all I expect; nothing more, nothing less.

 

Upinyachit

[+sbell111]

Upinyachit-

 

This topic is almost like religion and politics. It brings about very heated discussions.

 

I suspect that there was an element of jest in Scott's comment. That being said, your original post made a little voice in my head say 'freeloader'. It didn't appear to me from reading your post that the decision was based on your individual financial concerns.

 

Regardless of that, everyone has their own reasons to become a member or not. I believe that these basically boil down to one of three reasons:

 

1) A desire to support Geocaching. As you wisely mentioned, this can be done in a number of ways. It certainly can be argued that a cacher who places a number of truly great caches adds more to Geocaching than someone like me who has 300 finds, but only three hides. (See some of my other rants for more info) A cacher who puts out great caches helps develope more cachers, many of which will become charter members.

2) A simple cash to value determination. Do I get $30 worth of value from my payment. There is nothing inherently wrong with this form of valuing.

3) Whether the expense can be justified. Obviously, if cash is tight, it wouldn't be a good idea for a person to buy a membership. Likewise, if the sig other thinks the hobby is stupid and resents a cacher for taking the time to participate.

 

Basically, it is an individual decision.

 

Have fun. Please stick around.

[+sbell111]

Upinyachit-

 

I also took a look at your profile. Cheers to Quinn for hooking you up with your toy.

[Broncoholics]

When I did my first post on this subject, I didn't state clearly why we chose not to pay for a charter membership. It is because of a lot of things. It isn't because of financial concerns; we would rather put our money into other things such as gas or another great hide. But my point being; just because someone does not want to be a charter member does not make them a freeloader, no matter what the reason.

 

I am proud that Quinn introduced us to this wonderful sport and gave us an etrex. We now go to him for all of our gps needs. We are now a proud owner of a Magellan Meridian Gold and we try and get as many people involved as possible. We absolutely love this sport and will cache for many years to come.

 

We aren't going anywhere but...

 

Upinyachit!

[Broncoholics]

When I did my first post on this subject, I didn't state clearly why we chose not to pay for a charter membership. It is because of a lot of things. It isn't because of financial concerns; we would rather put our money into other things such as gas or another great hide. But my point being; just because someone does not want to be a charter member does not make them a freeloader, no matter what the reason.

 

I am proud that Quinn introduced us to this wonderful sport and gave us an etrex. We now go to him for all of our gps needs. We are now a proud owner of a Magellan Meridian Gold and we try and get as many people involved as possible. We absolutely love this sport and will cache for many years to come.

 

We aren't going anywhere but...

 

Upinyachit!

[Moun10Bike]

quote:

---

Originally posted by upinyachit:

 

Jeremy was in no way being diplomatic about this; instead he proceeded to say that "we consider the site beneath our threshold of value."

---

 

upinyachit, I believe that you are misunderstanding what he means by this, and are seeing a slight where there is none. He was indeed being diplomatic, not to mention understanding. The statement that "they just consider the current services of the site beneath their threshold of value" simply means that the $30/year (or $3/month) cost of becoming a member is simply not a worthwhile expense for some people; it is not a statement that judges anyone for that decision.

 

When Jeremy says, "It's my responsibility to make that worthwhile," he means that he recognizes that he must make the perceived benefits of becoming a member greater than the cost for the majority of people.

 

Moun10Bike's Geocaching Pages

[+Alan2]

Frankly, Jeremy, what you said was a putdown.

 

It's not classy for a businessman to say things like that to the very people he wishes to entice to start paying. In case others have forgotten your past posts,let me paraphrase what you have said on numerous occcasions ...that geocachaching.com and Groundspeak Inc. are for profit businesses and are not non-profit organizations; that you collect fees not donations, charge for products other the membership, and you as the owner of this business are the one who has established two levels of membership.

 

You shouldn't allow your frustration of not being able to charge everyone because you haven't figured out how to do so without chasing everyone to the other "N" geocaching site lead you to insulting a large portion of your membership!

 

Alan

[Kobayashi]

Jeremy....

 

Solution # 1:

 

Hit that wonderful "DELETE" button to this thread please!!!!

 

Solution # 2

 

Everyone get out of this thread and go find/hide a bloody geocache!

 

I'm off to go geocaching!

 

Peace.

 

[This message was edited by Kobayashi on July 09, 2002 at 08:14 PM.]

[+vds]

I'd rather ask "who's not stashing". I see that there are a surprising number of folks with over 100 hides who haven't hidden one (1) cache at all. You have to think there would be at least 'someplace' they could try to hide something to keep the sport growing.

 

Heck, there are even multiple zero-hiders in the top 100 (ie, over 250 finds+hides) overall sayeth Dan Miller's Leaderboard.

 

Given the cost in time/gas/etc. to reach 100 finds, I sure can't see how anybody could come up with any viable explanation for zero hides as well.

 

Sigh....

[Elias]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alan2:

In case others have forgotten your past posts,let me paraphrase what you have said on numerous occcasions ...that geocachaching.com and Groundspeak Inc. are for profit businesses and are not non-profit organizations; that you collect fees not donations, charge for products other the membership, and you as the owner of this business are the one who has established two levels of membership.

---

Hasn't this issue been discussed and Jeremy's message been clear? As a member of the Groundspeak team, I'll reiterate:

 

1. There is no profit. No one on the Groundspeak team is paid or has been paid for their services to maintain and run the site.

 

2. Geocaching.com is not a business or any other type of organization; profit or non-profit.

 

3. Groundspeak is a private for-profit corporation. Groundspeak owns Geocaching.com. Groundspeak subsidizes the Geocaching.com site. Monies from charter memberships, merchandise sales, ads, and our affiliate partners do not cover all the costs to run the web site.

 

4. We could not have made the recent critical upgrades to the web site without the gracious and generous support of the community.

 

Since Jeremy posted the above referenced message we've used the available money to make the following critical upgrades to insure the Geocaching.com site remains reliable and performs well (this is not inclusive):

 

1. Purchased a new database server.

2. Purchased a new web server.

3. Purchased a new mail server.

4. Moved to a new collocation facility which can provide the bandwidth required to run the site.

5. Invested in backup hardware.

 

All of this is consistent with the stated purpose and use of the monies raised to date. And everyone can continue to expect us to continue making these upgrades and improvements to the Geocaching.com site.

 

quote:

---

You shouldn't allow your frustration of not being able to charge everyone because you haven't figured out how to do so without chasing everyone to the other "N" geocaching site lead you to insulting a large portion of your membership!

---

There's no frustration on any of our parts as to the numbers of charter members. In fact, we're amazed and grateful for the level of support we've received. As I mentioned above, we couldn't have made those upgrades without it.

 

People should feel free to use the Geocaching.com site without becoming a member. If we so happen to add a new feature to the site that for you makes a subscription worthwhile, then great! If not, no problem. No frustrations here. Feel free to support the site in whatever way suits you. And I don't mean you have to buy anything either, just go out and have fun geocaching.

 

-Elias

[Elias]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alan2:

In case others have forgotten your past posts,let me paraphrase what you have said on numerous occcasions ...that geocachaching.com and Groundspeak Inc. are for profit businesses and are not non-profit organizations; that you collect fees not donations, charge for products other the membership, and you as the owner of this business are the one who has established two levels of membership.

---

Hasn't this issue been discussed and Jeremy's message been clear? As a member of the Groundspeak team, I'll reiterate:

 

1. There is no profit. No one on the Groundspeak team is paid or has been paid for their services to maintain and run the site.

 

2. Geocaching.com is not a business or any other type of organization; profit or non-profit.

 

3. Groundspeak is a private for-profit corporation. Groundspeak owns Geocaching.com. Groundspeak subsidizes the Geocaching.com site. Monies from charter memberships, merchandise sales, ads, and our affiliate partners do not cover all the costs to run the web site.

 

4. We could not have made the recent critical upgrades to the web site without the gracious and generous support of the community.

 

Since Jeremy posted the above referenced message we've used the available money to make the following critical upgrades to insure the Geocaching.com site remains reliable and performs well (this is not inclusive):

 

1. Purchased a new database server.

2. Purchased a new web server.

3. Purchased a new mail server.

4. Moved to a new collocation facility which can provide the bandwidth required to run the site.

5. Invested in backup hardware.

 

All of this is consistent with the stated purpose and use of the monies raised to date. And everyone can continue to expect us to continue making these upgrades and improvements to the Geocaching.com site.

 

quote:

---

You shouldn't allow your frustration of not being able to charge everyone because you haven't figured out how to do so without chasing everyone to the other "N" geocaching site lead you to insulting a large portion of your membership!

---

There's no frustration on any of our parts as to the numbers of charter members. In fact, we're amazed and grateful for the level of support we've received. As I mentioned above, we couldn't have made those upgrades without it.

 

People should feel free to use the Geocaching.com site without becoming a member. If we so happen to add a new feature to the site that for you makes a subscription worthwhile, then great! If not, no problem. No frustrations here. Feel free to support the site in whatever way suits you. And I don't mean you have to buy anything either, just go out and have fun geocaching.

 

-Elias